9th Circuit: You have a right to own guns, but not to sell them

[grampster]

Drinking alcohol is not a right.

You are wrong!!  We have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.  Drinking is the pursuit of happiness.

[Fly320s]

Drinking alcohol is not a right.

What are our rights?

[Hawkmoon]

You are wrong!!  We have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.  Drinking is the pursuit of happiness.

That's from the Declaration of Independence, not the Constitution.

[Perd Hapley]

That's from the Declaration of Independence, not the Constitution.

That's a good place for a semicolon; not a comma.


The Constitution does not have, or claim to have, an exhaustive list of our rights. Neither does the Declaration, our nation's founding document, which is equally relevant (though not in the courtroom).

I'm not sure why the biggest teetotaler on this board has to say this, but you have a right to drink alcohol, in the sense that you have a right to liberty and property, and are a free adult person, generally.

[cordex]

I'm not sure why the biggest teetotaler on this board has to say this, but you have a right to drink alcohol, in the sense that you have a right to liberty and property, and are a free adult person, generally.

Agreed.
-Second biggest teetotaler on this board

[Hawkmoon]

That's a good place for a semicolon; not a comma.


The Constitution does not have, or claim to have, an exhaustive list of our rights. Neither does the Declaration, our nation's founding document, which is equally relevant (though not in the courtroom).

I'm not sure why the biggest teetotaler on this board has to say this, but you have a right to drink alcohol, in the sense that you have a right to liberty and property, and are a free adult person, generally.

Other than the Bill of Rights, the Constitution does not convey or guarantee rights, it establishes constraints on the federal government. Even the Tenth Amendment doesn't mention "rights," only powers.

Basically, we have a right to do anything that some law doesn't say is illegal, but unless constrained by the Constitution that which is legal today can be legislatively deemed illegal next week.

Amendment 10 - Powers of the States and People. Ratified 12/15/1791. Note

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

[230RN]

Third biggest teetotaler on the board.

Agree.  Unenumerated right, left to the States, or to the People.  (I see Hawkmoon beat me to it.)

Don't know if any right to drink was incorporated to the states when Prohibition was eliminated.

But the particular fundamental right of keeping and bearing arms has been incorporated to the States and hence to the people therein.  And shall not be infringed upon.

[HeroHog]

Total teetotaller myself for a good while now. The VA frowns mixing narcotics and some of my other meds with alcohol and seeing as I wasn't a heavy drinker anyway, I just completely gave it up. You pretty much have the right to drink what you damned well please. You can brew your own alcohol, within limits, in most states, counties these days. My father and the family priest had a still when I was growing up. Made White Lightning for fun and friends. Best "Holy Water" ever(clear)!

[dogmush]

Total teetotaller myself for a good while now. The VA frowns mixing narcotics and some of my other meds with alcohol and seeing as I wasn't a heavy drinker anyway, I just completely gave it up. You pretty much have the right to drink what you damned well please. You can brew your own alcohol, within limits, in most states, counties these days. My father and the family priest had a still when I was growing up. Made White Lightning for fun and friends. Best "Holy Water" ever(clear)!

It is illegal to distill alcohol for consumption without a permit in the US.  I know lots of folks do it, but it's still illegal, and the ATF does snatch people up for it.

So your "within limits" is: you can brew beer or wine.

[230RN]

^ "It is illegal to distill alcohol for consumption without a permit in the US."

I was surprised to learn that "distill" also meant freezing out the water from fermented mixtures.  To most folks, "distillation" means the application of heat to evaporate the alcohol off the mixture.

[MillCreek]

^^^Interesting.  Just north of me in the Okanogan region of Canada, they are famous for their ice wines, which I believe are prepared in exactly that method: freezing and removing water from the base wine.  There are a lot of wineries in the US making ice wines this way, too, and I wonder if they must have a special license from ATF, or does the regular winery license cover it.

[230RN]

See first post at:

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=399422

QUOTE OF A QUOTE:

The term applejack falls into the standards of identity for distilled spirits and as such could not be produced without a permit. The process of freezing a mixture of alcohol and aqueous fermented material, like wine, causes some water to freeze and separate from the alcohol mixture. The resultant mixture has a higher alcohol content than the original and is called a “high alcohol wine fraction.” Any person who separates alcohol spirits from any fermented substance, as stated in 26 U.S.C. § 5002(a)(4)(c), is known as a distiller; therefore, if you freeze wine or hard cider in an effort to extract water from the alcohol mixture, you are a distiller, and Federal law prohibits operations of a distillery in a residence. As a distiller, you would have to file an application with TTB and follow our regulations regarding the manufacturing processes approved for making distilled spirits.

 Ronda Merrell, MPA
 Technical Advisor
 Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau
 1-877-882-3277

But then a semantic argument crops up.  Are you merely removing ice from a mixture, or are you actually concentrating the alcohol in the mixture?

It depends....  For beer, it's sorta OK. But:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Homebrewing/comments/2sgzw4/psa_regarding_freeze_distillation_for_us/

QUOTE OF A QUOTE AGAIN

However, wine and cider may not be frozen for the express purpose of increasing the alcohol content. TTB has previously held that freezing a mixture of alcohol and aqueous fermented material, like wine, causes some water to freeze and separate from the alcohol mixture. The resultant mixture has higher alcohol content than the original and is called a “high alcohol content wine fraction” and any person who separates alcoholic spirits from any fermented substance is known as a distiller. Because Federal law requires a permit to operate as a distiller and prohibits the operation of a distillery in a residence, in order to freeze wine or cider you will have to file an application with TTB and follow our regulations regarding the manufacturing processes approved for making distilled spirits.

Aaaand I suspect that calling it "Apple Beer" won't cut it.

Aaaaaaand, y' gotta keep in mind the difference between for sale and for personal consumption.

Hey !  Reminds me of the ATF rules on pistol stocks and shoelaces, don't it?