Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: 280plus on December 17, 2012, 08:57:56 AM
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I'll bet it's coming. ;)
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AR lowers are backordered everywhere
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I'm thinking about it .........
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Once I get this AR project done I'm going to run on some guns.
I might (gasp) get rid of a couple too.
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Nobody has Glock mags in stock. If anyone knows of a place that does, let me know, I want to pick up a couple more gen 4 9mm 17 rounders.
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This stuff was already out of stock, post-election.
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Nobody has Glock mags in stock. If anyone knows of a place that does, let me know, I want to pick up a couple more gen 4 9mm 17 rounders.
SharpShooters Knife and Gun, Lubbock, TX. They had some last time I was in.
Brad
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I was in Gander Mountain yesterday, and there was a line in the gun section of people looking to make purchases...
I bought the last Glock 19 mag they had in stock. Yeah, I've got several, but with the likelihood of a cap limit being reimposed, no sense not having one more.
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I was picking up a gun Saturday. Place is normally busy but they were swamped.
Sent via tapatalk
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Went to the Waukesha gun show on Saturday. It was the busiest I've ever seen. Even had some protesters out in the rain.
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It'll be hard to tell the difference between the Obama II panic and the latest calls for an AWB/Mag Cap/All Guns bans emanating from DC panic.
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While I've already had plans to buy ammo, mags, and guns, I think I will up my purchase amount and frequency.
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Got the range tonight starting 5:30. Should be interesting.
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At the Walmart I work at the day of the shooting we sold 2 AR variants. The day after the shooting 5 AR variants. and 3 shotguns. It is no doubt a run related to the shooting. We have probably 2 or 3 left. Walmart is finally getting the sales on the ARs. They sat gathering dust all year until this week.
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My LGS was busy when I stopped in today. I overheard one sales guy saying the NICS wait was over one hour. And that was an improvement from this morning.
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My distributors were swamped today. I saw on Saturday that they had about 60,000 pMags with and without windows, so I started putting them on my site. By the time I was finished, I got two orders for two each (yippee) before they were sold out.
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I just left the PX , the gun Counter was pretty busy and ammo was low!
I saw one guy leave with m&p 15.
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I was talking to the owner of a custom shop who said he stopped counting after logging 100+ calls, mostly generic gun availability inquiries.
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yup, and this is just the beginning. ;)
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I just ordered some AR10 and M1A mags from Brownells, the AR15 mags were looking a little thin. I didn't check AR lower availability.
bob
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I picked up my new hi power today and NICS took about 35min. It was like a gunshow day. My FFL mentioned it had been crazy all weekend.
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Perhaps I need to pick up a AR-10 lower for a future project.
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While it didn't resemble the bank run scene in It's a Wonderful Life, Academy Sports was doing a brisk business in guns. Mostly EBR's and autopistols. No joy finding Glockazines online.
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Article about gun run in Colorado:
http://denver.cbslocal.com/2012/12/17/cbi-deals-with-massive-influx-of-potential-gun-buyers/
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Maybe we can organize a 5K run to support local gun shops. =D
I have seen a "run" on AR's and AK's ever since the election. Everyone who hadn't already gotten an AR15 or something similar was out buying them. The WalMart near me is stocking AR's and selling them. The last show I went to about 2 weeks ago, there were only 3 vendors selling stripped lowers and all were low on stock. It looked like they were selling them. The good news is I haven't seen prices going up like 4 years ago.
I haven't looked around lately so I don't know what is happening since the recent incident in the news.
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I believe that the gun buying run has started again.
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I heard a news headline on the radio this morning that Dick's Sporting Goods will no longer sell semi-auto guns. Anyone know if this is true?
I don't think they have any stores near me so it makes little difference to me personally.
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I heard a news headline on the radio this morning that Dick's Sporting Goods will no longer sell semi-auto guns. Anyone know if this is true?
I don't think they have any stores near me so it makes little difference to me personally.
It is. There's a current thread.
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Saw it on the news, must be true. ;/
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Hoffman's was a mess today. People were parking across the Berlin Turnpike and trying to run across six lanes of traffic! :facepalm: If I didn't have a transfer to send out I never would have gone in. Fortunately I found a parking space in the actual parking lot.
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Why not Riverview for you. It's more up your way and Hoffman's sucks anyways. =D
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I've heard quite enough BS from Riverview's employees, thank you. Did you know that the Ruger 10/22 was used by SF in 'Nam to take out guard dogs? True Fact. Also Saiga 5.45s are more than $100 more expensive than the .223 model because the ammo is cheaper! "Gotta make our money somewhere." ;/
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Ok then,,, =D Nuff said and thanks for the input. I did try to sell one of mine up there, they offered me way too low, like insultingly low. I walked. Newington gun exchange would be my next choice. Any stories there?
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Yeah, they offered me $250 for an XD .45 with fewer than 100 rounds through it.
I prefer Newington Gun Exchange for most things, actually. They get more of my business than anyone else. I went to Hoffman's for the transfer because I thought I'd get faster service, and I was right (minus the parking nightmare and suicidal highway-crossers). But NGX is my first choice for buying and trading.
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Yup, the only down to earth guys I know of.
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I just got back from Cables in Fort Worth . =|
AR-15"s sold out.
AR-15 mags sold out.
Glock mags sold out.
1911 mags sold out
Good ammo low
Bulk / range ammo okay
Lots of scared gun owners talking about AWB and retail stores not sell AR-15 anymore!
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local shop was almost out of everything cool. They sold 10 ARs today, several AKs, several stripped lowers, and the complete polymer lower that I paid too much for because there were two guys behind me ready to buy it
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Most of the bigger websites are totally out of AK's, and the few that are in stock are all milled >$1k models. Lot of places sold out on AK mags as well.
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Atlantic's website is so slammed it keeps crashing, multiple other websites are saying shipping will be delayed. I'd say there is a run on.
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RSR Group is one of the largest distributors, and they had to shut down their website because there was too much traffic from retailers. The phones in the sales offices were constantly busy.
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Bleepin' amazing. Meanwhile, how many of us have purchased in direct response to this? I have not. I figure I have what I need.
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CBS reported that last Friday was the 3rd best day for gun sales ever.
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Bleepin' amazing. Meanwhile, how many of us have purchased in direct response to this? I have not. I figure I have what I need.
I haven't either. I was planning on buying some more pistol mags anyway, but I can't buy anything until after Christmas.
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Bleepin' amazing. Meanwhile, how many of us have purchased in direct response to this? I have not. I figure I have what I need.
Nothing yet. We'll see about after Christmas.
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Bleepin' amazing. Meanwhile, how many of us have purchased in direct response to this? I have not. I figure I have what I need.
I bought two used guns, one the Saiga 12 posted here, based on want and availability. I was hesitating, but made the decision to buy extra mags which shipped pre-crush, and to have the AK conversion done. Would've put those off, but made the leap.
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Bleepin' amazing. Meanwhile, how many of us have purchased in direct response to this? I have not. I figure I have what I need.
I did
I bought a few things , like Saiga 12 drums and 6.8 ammo .
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I just got off the phone with one of the gun shops i buy from. He's out of everything and his distributors out.
He's scared he can't pay his rent with out inventory. :facepalm:
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Midway still had a fewer complete (AR) upper assemblies when I placed my order yesterday AM. The model I bought is out now, and most of the others are "out of stock, backorder OK".
My Brownell's order from last week, containing only a few punches and parts, JUST shipped and will be here AFTER my new upper.
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I just sold an AR over the weekend on Gunbroker. I got about $300 more than I was expecting.
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My local has been cleaned out of AR's and mags. That happened on Saturday.
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Bleepin' amazing. Meanwhile, how many of us have purchased in direct response to this? I have not. I figure I have what I need.
I confess -- I ordered some 30-round AR-15 magazines. Not a lot, but a few more never hurts.
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I'm really debating whether or not I want to sell my AR.
I think I'm going to be debating with myself for awhile to see where things go.
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Midway still had a fewer complete (AR) upper assemblies
Midway is flat out of the one thing I might pick more of up now, Glock 17 and 19 magazines. Except for 10-rounders. ;/
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I'm tempted, too, but only because I think I could make a modest profit on it and I don't seriously expect them to be banned. With the demand so high I think I could turn a quick $100 on my AR, but I'm not gung-ho about selling it in general.
I have been selling off part of my pistol collection, only because I went a little overboard earlier this year when I was flush with cash from a contract and ended up with way more than I should. However, none of them hold more than 8 rounds. I'm holding on to my "hi-caps." I also think I have plenty of mags, five or six for each pistol and ten for my AR.
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Even SAA is charging $30 for gen 2 magpul mags now. :facepalm:
http://www.surplusammo.com/ar-15-style/
Primary Arms is showing out of stock across the board, except on like one brand of 20 round mags.
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If you've sold all your inventory how can you not have $ to pay the rent? =D
America, what a country.
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Maybe the guy is deep in debt and hasn't broken even yet. Maybe he needs to stock more Les Baers. =)
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If you've sold all your inventory how can you not have $ to pay the rent? =D
America, what a country.
You can this month, but if you can't replace that inventory to sell next month...
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Ahhhh, yea, that would suck quite a bit. =(
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As you can see Obama kicked the ball down the road and put Joe Biden in charge. That's it, put an idiot in charge. That'll fix things.
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You can this month, but if you can't replace that inventory to sell next month...
Ahhhh, yea, that would suck quite a bit.
With the AWB coming and lack of inventory these guys are in trouble. It sucks to......they are good people !
The problem.......It's a small shop that only deal in AR-15 parts.
Never put all your eggs in one basket. :facepalm:
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From Illinoiscarry: The owner of Gat Guns said it is the busiest his store has been since the 1968 riots, almost out of AR-15 styled rifles. Pretty crazy. (http://illinoiscarry.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=32514)
So went to Gat Guns for the first time Tuesday, it was packed, thought it was kind of odd for a Tuesday night. There was a long line of about 100 people upstairs, I wasn't sure what it was for at first but it was people picking up gun purchases. I talked to one employee that stated the owner told him it is the busiest the store has been since the '68 riots, busier then when the Clinton ban was being enacted, busier than either time Obama was elected. I was there for 2 hours and the line did not shrink at all.
As I browsed the sales floor it was clear there were way more people looking to buy guns then there were employees to sell them. I went by the AR15 style rifle section and there were about a dozen people looking to buy and 1 guy working. One customer was getting frustrated because they didn't have the model he wanted and the clerk said "Sir I'm sorry but we have sold more ARs in the last 3 days than we have ever sold in in any 3 day period since I have been working here, what we have on display is all we have left there is no back stock." They had about 10 AR15 styled rifles left and they appeared to be some oddball models. Same story by the semi-autos. A customer was looking for a specific model of XDM I believe and the clerk said "I'm sorry but we don't have any back stock, every gun we have is out on display. Normally we have at least 5 of each gun we have on display in the back but we only have whats on display" The clerk said it was the first time he had seen that happen.
Just glad I'm a little ahead on that game.
Maybe this wouldn't be a good time to be selling off the Bersa .45 and ordering the XDS.
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With the AWB coming and lack of inventory these guys are in trouble. It sucks to......they are good people !
The problem.......It's a small shop that only deal in AR-15 parts.
Never put all your eggs in one basket. :facepalm:
Or, never rely on small inventories and "just in time" delieveries of a product that is subject to runs of purchases.
Ought to have had either significant inventory to be able to make a significant profit during a run or diversified. Hopefully they survive and learn a lesson.
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Long before any of this mess happened, I had intended to purchase a bunch of G17 mags and PMAGS this week. (bonus check coming from work.) It's looking like the cheapest I'll be able find those G17 mags is ~$30+ tax locally.
After doing some test driving (and really liking) the Walther PPQ a couple weeks ago, I was strongly considering getting one. However, I am now taking a wait-and-see attitude. Before the recent unpleasantness, mags were already over $40, and I don't feel like hunting for more in a scarce market.
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Yeah, I'd say a run is underway!
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-12-19/guns-out-of-stock-at-wal-mart-as-magazine-prices-surge-on.html
Focus of the article is Walmart and magazines. Toward the end is this gem: Gun buyers have flooded other firearms retailers too. The Hyatt Gun Shop in Charlotte, North Carolina, racked up more than $1 million in sales yesterday for the best single-day performance since the store opened in 1959, according to Justin Anderson, director of online sales. At the top of shoppers’ lists was the Bushmaster AR-15, the model of rifle used at Newtown that sells for as much as $4,000 and had almost sold out, he said.
Hyatt's is worth a trip to Charlotte just to see it.
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Yeah, I'd say a run is underway!
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-12-19/guns-out-of-stock-at-wal-mart-as-magazine-prices-surge-on.html
Focus of the article is Walmart and magazines. Toward the end is this gem:
Hyatt's is worth a trip to Charlotte just to see it.
$4,000 for Bushmaster AR? Bestill my heart and tell me they're including other mfgs high end guns.
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Yeah, I'd say a run is underway!
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-12-19/guns-out-of-stock-at-wal-mart-as-magazine-prices-surge-on.html
Focus of the article is Walmart and magazines. Toward the end is this gem:
Hyatt's is worth a trip to Charlotte just to see it.
I'll be checking the local Wally World after work, in about an hour.
----edit to add---
WM here (them and the farm store would be the main sources in town for ammo) shows no sign of panic or reduced stock. Plenty of Fudd guns in the case. I'll wait until after Christmas to do anything about a shotgun.
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This afternoon I took a short drive to my local Academy Sports. Last time I was there there were a bunch of ARs and Sig Sauer 556s, plus various .22 caliber versions of these guns.
Today, NADA. ZIP. ZILTCH. Shotguns and bolt actions and lever actions, yes.
Plus the ammo shelves were pretty bare, though they did have some Federal 5.56mm. on the shelf.
It's a real phenomenon.
I didn't buy anything as I really don't need anything.
I talked briefly with one clerk I recognize there, who appeared rather flustered at the amount of business they'd done and that they had no more ARs to sell customers.....briefly got onto politics & Obama but I guess he didn't want to go there so I let that go.
Some interesting times await us. [tinfoil]
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That makes me think this weekend might be a good time to pull out the old Armalite I have and see if I can sell it. I haven't shot it in years. I have collected better AR's since. I think it was around $700 back in the late 90's. It is a ban model.
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$4G for a bushy? Anyone want to buy mine?APS deal of the day - $3500 ;)
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I think Saturday may be a god day to set up some targets down at the backyard range and function check the AR and my mags.
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Almost makes me want to sell the A2 lower I assembled in anticipation of my .50BMG upper arriving. Almost.
I did a quick search on Midwayusa. They have 557 entries for "magazines by gun make and model". Of those, 59 are no longer available, and 249 are out of stock/backordered.
So what do they have?
An excess of name brand pistol mags. The cheapest of the cheap manufacturers of pistol mags, some bolt rifle mags and I think I saw one G3 magazine entry. Others include low capacity .22 and mini-14 magazines and a few oddities included a 90 dollar accuracy international rifle mag, and a 20 rounder for the H&K SL-8. The only entry I saw that could fall into the evil standard capacity category, was a single 20 round offering from ProMag for the Saiga in 7.62x39mm. Talk about cleaned the hell out.
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I'll admit that I very seriously considered buying some more Glock 17 mags and AR mags for my FNC.
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Almost makes me want to sell the A2 lower I assembled in anticipation of my .50BMG upper arriving. Almost.
I did a quick search on Midwayusa. They have 557 entries for "magazines by gun make and model". Of those, 59 are no longer available, and 249 are out of stock/backordered.
So what do they have?
An excess of name brand pistol mags. The cheapest of the cheap manufacturers of pistol mags, some bolt rifle mags and I think I saw one G3 magazine entry. Others include low capacity .22 and mini-14 magazines and a few oddities included a 90 dollar accuracy international rifle mag, and a 20 rounder for the H&K SL-8. The only entry I saw that could fall into the evil standard capacity category, was a single 20 round offering from ProMag for the Saiga in 7.62x39mm. Talk about cleaned the hell out.
I've got a order from Midway inbound including a couple of AR Stoner ar-15 mags on a whim. I was going to get 4 but the website would only let me order 2. Order placed yesterday morning early.
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I have had two different gun shops tell me that they can't get guns because their distributors have sold out.
I'm not shopping, just checking. The shop I visited today is run by two retired police officers and I wanted to get their view on how the average police officer might be feeling right now regarding gun bans. They said they think the vast majority of police officers DON'T want to see "civilians" disarmed -- but I'm having a hard time accepting that, even from two of the (former) boys in blue.
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Just went down to The Firing Line in Aurora, CO. Their AR section was bare. Their semi-auto consignment racks were bare. The case that contained their pocket pistols was nearly empty an there were a great many gaps in the full-sized pistol cases. Also the magazine bins had been ravaged, as expected.
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I REALLY want an AR-57. Also a PS90.
I could probably stretch our finances a little to get the AR, lower, etc...
However, given how nuts everything is right now, I'm going to take a different tack:
I'm going to purchase more ammo for my Garand, my Mosin, and more supplies for reloading my 6.8 SPC. Maybe a few more mags for the 6.8.
Shore up what I have rather than try to expand and then deal with not enough ammo for many guns if the focus of this attack is on the ammo, rather than the guns.
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I was at my LGS around 3PM yesterday buying a lower and it was a complete zoo. I was there all of 30 minutes and watched 8 AR-15's and 1 su-16 go out the door. They were complaining about NICS checks being slow and when they finally would get through they would batch about 10 sales with the rep on the phone. The counter guy almost cried with happiness when I had my CCW and he could skip NICS for my lower.
They did have a lot of stock left, they had just taken a big shipment of DPMS 16" carbines the week before. They also had a huge bin of USGI magazines.
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They were complaining about NICS checks being slow and when they finally would get through they would batch about 10 sales with the rep on the phone.
Slow? I'm surprised the little 486 box that has to be what they run that on didn't totally melt down from the load.
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Run on guns, mags, and ammo... confirmed.
During lunch I went by the gun shop where I worked earlier this year. He usually keeps 75-100 AR platforms in stock. Today he had six. Lowers? Less than a dozen. XM855 and 193 5.56 ammo? None. AR mags? Nada. Keep in mind that he buys P-Mags by the hundreds and 5.56 in multiple-pallet shipments. The ammo and mags he's sold in the last week represents about two regular months worth of product.
They said yesterday was the biggest day in the history of the store. They had people walking buying three and four ARs at a time with no concern about brand or accessories, just grabbing the first ones they came to on the rack.
Oh, those six ARs I mentioned being on the rack? Two customers were filling out paperwork on them when I left. He expects to be completely sold out by the end of the day.
Brad
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Much of the spike in gun, ammo and accessory sales could be just newbies finally getting into the game but there may be an even deeper level of activity going on.
So is there any way to get even a casual sense of if there has been an increase in the sale of how-to-build guns\make ammo books, milling equipment, raw materials like billets of aluminum or steel (I would also include basic reloading supplies) etc? Because that would show a clearer understanding of what may be about to happen. And therefore what needs to happen.
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So, forgot to mention, yesterday at closing time the guys at the local shop near me stated the NICS wait, on the automated computer system, was approaching 28 hours.
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While I really shouldn't, I'm seriously considering buying something in either 5.56 or .223. Will have to wait until after Christmas unfortunately, sure hope there's something available then....
I've wanted one for decades, this seems like the best time to get one while it's still possible.
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So, forgot to mention, yesterday at closing time the guys at the local shop near me stated the NICS wait, on the automated computer system, was approaching 28 hours.
28 hours? Twenty-eight? !!!
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While I really shouldn't, I'm seriously considering buying something in either 5.56 or .223. Will have to wait until after Christmas unfortunately, sure hope there's something available then....
I've wanted one for decades, this seems like the best time to get one while it's still possible.
If those are your choices, go with the 5.56 if you can. You can run .223 in 5.56, but you shouldn't run 5.56 in .223.
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Yeah I was hoping to get more mags.....not so much!
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I am so glad I made my last big gun order a month ago, and a big ammo order early last week, I think I could resell and make like $2k in a weeks worth of "work".
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If those are your choices, go with the 5.56 if you can. You can run .223 in 5.56, but you shouldn't run 5.56 in .223.
Good to know. Thanks!
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While I really shouldn't, I'm seriously considering buying something in either 5.56 or .223. Will have to wait until after Christmas unfortunately, sure hope there's something available then....
I've wanted one for decades, this seems like the best time to get one while it's still possible.
I'm kind of in the same camp. At a bare minimum I feel the sudden urge to buy up a bunch of standard cap mags for the guns I already have.
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http://www.brownells.com/magazines/rifle-magazines/magazines/ar-15-m16-pmag-polymer-magazine-10-pak-prod42583.aspx (http://www.brownells.com/magazines/rifle-magazines/magazines/ar-15-m16-pmag-polymer-magazine-10-pak-prod42583.aspx)
Due to unprecedented demand levels Magpul is focusing their efforts on producing BLACK PMAGs for the foreseeable future. To expedite delivery of your order, we currently are only accepting additional backorders for BLACK 30 and 20 round PMAGs.
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3 mag for $150.00 :O
http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-Magpul-Black-PMAG-30rd-Ar-15-magazine-/321044571214? (http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-Magpul-Black-PMAG-30rd-Ar-15-magazine-/321044571214?)
2 mag , 15 bids $255.00
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Two-Magpul-PMAG-30-Black-US-Made-New-/290833624436?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43b708ed74 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Two-Magpul-PMAG-30-Black-US-Made-New-/290833624436?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43b708ed74)
I think i need to set a e-gay account !!!
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Not so gay anymore eh? :lol:
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Not so gay anymore eh? :lol:
Oh no, it's still gay. But he's just "experimenting."
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Oh no, it's still gay. But he's just "experimenting."
He's "prison gay".
Chris
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I noticed a lack of ammo before this month in specific calibers/grains. It's pretty much totally gone now. Haven't checked on mags and such yet.
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To think I felt bad about some of the mags I'm getting for Christmas were "overpriced" by $4-5 because my immediate family do it all through Amazon...
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Ammo case at the Wal-mart in Glen Ellyn, is pretty bare...
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I dropped by a couple gun shops in the big city on my way to pick up #1 son coming in from the airport. These are places I don't get to more than two or three times a year normally.
Both had good stock, and neither seemed to be excessively overpriced, compared to what gun related product normally is at retail around here. Both had EBRs and lots of handguns. Both were busy, but not insanely so. That could be pre-Christmas shopping more than AWB panic. One store had a "CCW sale" on small handguns.
The one place had half a box of Pmags, $19 each, "limit one". Ammo in that store was "limit two". One counter guy said their inventory was down about 40%.
Oh, yeah. Same place had a new in box Lee Classic Turret on their sale table, for $75. I hemmed and hawed for a few minutes, then grabbed it. Pricewise it looks like I did good (http://www.midwayusa.com/product/814175/lee-classic-4-hole-turret-press). Initial impression is that this thing is well constructed and very solid, Maybe now I can move away from the Pro 1000 for volume production.
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Was at the shop today. Not as much of a rush busy still busier then usual, even for this time of year. Plenty of rifles, shotguns, and handguns left but all out of anything remotely resembling an eeeeevil black rifle was gone except for three .22 AR's. Still had a reasonable amount of ammo except for .223.
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Due to record setting demand for our products we are suspending sales until our shipping department can get caught up with current orders. We feel our obligation is to fill current orders before taking on new sales . We hope to resume ordering as soon as possible.
In the meantime, thank you for your patience.
Sincerely,
Atlantic Firearms.com
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So, I put some used mags up for auction that I haven't used in a while. Used first-gen PMAGS went for ~$45 ea. The few unused 1st-gen PMAGS I had went for ~$55 ea. LE-marked, 20-round Mini-14 mags went for ~$50 ea.
For a brief moment I felt weird being "that guy" selling them at that price, but it was the buyers that bid them up to that level. It was an unexpected $1k that I wasn't expecting to make this week.
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It was an unexpected $1k that I wasn't expecting to make this week.
As opposed to an expected $1K that you weren't expecting to make this week? ;)
That's a good profit. You have no reason to feel bad.
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buyers that bid them up to that level
Your fine , it was the biders .
If you set your reserve at $100 you would be that guy! Like the ahole in the Price gouging thread, 1349.99 for lower.
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I'm seriously thinking about putting my LMT rifle up for the rediculous prices ARs have been fetching.
During '08 I could have unloaded it for $5k
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Avenger29, I've given the same thought to my BCM. I'd take the EOTech off of it, and the light and the Troy BUS, since those wouldn't fetch what I paid.
It's taking a chance, though, that there may be a ban. Or that prices don't come down much.
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Hmmm, I got this Saiga in .308 I may or may not like that much. Frigging thing is a cannon lol
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That could be pre-Christmas shopping more than AWB panic.
Or both.
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http://www.seattlepi.com/news/article/Gun-sales-brisk-in-south-Puget-Sound-4140898.php
Sales are brisk in western Washington.
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So what is y'all's take on the climate of the gun run. Meaning, my walmart has a bushmaster xm15-e2s in the Backroom with a broken magazine. $957.00 new in box. Anyone think I could safely make a few bucks on this item. I don't have the money to get my own. However If I can make some $ to pay down credit cards I am not opposed to it.
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So what is y'all's take on the climate of the gun run. Meaning, my walmart has a bushmaster xm15-e2s in the Backroom with a broken magazine. $957.00 new in box. Anyone think I could safely make a few bucks on this item. I don't have the money to get my own. However If I can make some $ to pay down credit cards I am not opposed to it.
I think there'll be a buying panic until we see if any new AWB flies, crashes and burns, or dies a quiet death.
Broken magazine? Easy enough to fix or replace. Would I try to flip it? Would you be hurting if you couldn't sell, and had to pay off the CC? Exactly where are we in the panic buying cycle?
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So what is y'all's take on the climate of the gun run. Meaning, my walmart has a bushmaster xm15-e2s in the Backroom with a broken magazine. $957.00 new in box. Anyone think I could safely make a few bucks on this item. I don't have the money to get my own. However If I can make some $ to pay down credit cards I am not opposed to it.
I generally don't like giving investment advice, but here's my take on the current situation:
If you can sell it before the DC wonks are back in session in the new year, you will likely make at least a small profit. If you wait till right after the new year, you will either make a much bigger profit than you can make now, or you will be lucky to get your money back on it.
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I generally don't like giving investment advice, but here's my take on the current situation:
If you can sell it before the DC wonks are back in session in the new year, you will likely make at least a small profit. If you wait till right after the new year, you will either make a much bigger profit than you can make now, or you will be lucky to get your money back on it.
But you will have another AR-15.
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But you will have another AR-15.
Except for he said he can't afford one. He just wanted to see if he could flip it. :)
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Yeah, you can definitely flip it. Pretty much everything that was in anyone's inventory is gone, and there are still buyers out there.
Considering Bud's Gun Shop was asking (and apparently getting (http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/13230/Bushmaster+223+PATROLMAN+30RD)) $1219, I'd go for it. Buy it and put it up for sale on a auction site. Put $1000 as your reserve.
And no one will care about the borked magazine. If you can fix it, that's just more free money.
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A mag is $10 during normal times. Get that rifle!
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I killed some time at another local shop today. This guy I don't visit much, because his prices tend to be high. He was down to a few bolt action rifles, and described selling "a couple pallets" of AKs and ARs. And, offered to buy my WASR off me. (No Way.)
I got the idea to, if Glock magazines have all been sucked up, to just buy Glock springs and followers and rebuild my KCI mags, since their main problem is anemic springs.
Un-uh. Midway's basically out of them too. Wolff and Glock. Unless I want parts for a 10-rounder.
Glock follower (http://www.midwayusa.com/find?userSearchQuery=glock+follower)
Glock magazine spring (http://www.midwayusa.com/find?sortby=1&itemsperpage=20&newcategorydimensionid=2457)
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I've got a PTR91 I have been thinking of selling. I've never done eBay so I hate to go that route. I already have a friend who expressed interest. I can't gouge him, but I ought to be able to get him to cover more of what I put into it than I would a couple months ago. The German scope, recoil buffer, mags, and stock parts cost money. I guess it wouldn't kill me to keep it. A reliable rifle with a small pile of magazines ain't a bad thing to have around. =)
I wonder if those magazines would be worth some money now or later?
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You can't sell it on Evil Bay, they don't allow guns. You'll have to go to one of the gun auction sites. Like Gunbroker.com or Gunauction.com or Gunsamerica.com
I'm sure there are other/better ones, but those are the ones I think of off the top of my head.
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And you can save the auction fees selling it on armslist.com, backpage.com, or a local site if your state has one.
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If JJ buys it, puts it on Gunbroker, sets it for no reserve, starting price $.01 and he carefully times the auction to start and end during the middle of prime-time evening hours through all time-zones of the U.S. He'll probably turn a profit. I'd say the odds were well better than 90%... however, it's not a certainty.
I'd set it to start and end on a Wednesday, around 8pm CST. Pay the extra $.50 or whatever for a picture, premium listing, bold color text. Say NO RESERVE in the description.
I've never done worse than a fair market price for everything I've sold on Gunbroker this way. Although I had to be prepared for bad luck and someone bidding $50 or something, and I'd have to honor it. Although if you look through Gunbroker, there's about 99 reserve auctions that end with no bids, for every no-reserve one that has 10 or more bids.
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All of the research I've seen shows that the best time to list an item on an auction is 8 pm CST on Sunday evening. I guess it's the most common time for people to be able to watch an auction.
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Just dont mention to anyone you bought it with the intent to resell it at a profit. ATF might take umbrage to that if you don't have an FFL
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Never say that you bought anything to make a profit. Obama doesn't like that.
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Never say that you bought anything to make a profit. Obama doesn't like that.
Yeah, so making a profit on an EBR, double plus not good.
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I believe the term you are looking for is double plus ungood
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Although I had to be prepared for bad luck and someone bidding $50 or something, and I'd have to honor it. Although if you look through Gunbroker, there's about 99 reserve auctions that end with no bids, for every no-reserve one that has 10 or more bids.
If you're not getting the bids you want, just have a confederate start a bidding war for you. >:D
In all seriousness, I have used Auction Arms before without any problems. I usually do penny auctions, and I can't remember a time I took a bath on a sale. I have never had a true bidding war on anything, though.
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Spending money you don't have on a sure deal to make a quick buck.
What could possibly go worng ???
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Spending money you don't have on a sure deal to make a quick buck.
What could possibly go worng ???
I end up with a rifle I want...
After holding my brothers new Stag all I have to say is the bushmaster feels like crap quality wise.
I will not risk getting stuck that rifle.
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Went into a large lgs and it was like they had been hit by gun eating locusts.
I think I will put off my sw1911 e series lwcdr purchase until the madness subsides.
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Checked all of the local stores on Friday, about the only magazines available anywhere were for oddball makes of pistols, everything else has been picked clean.
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There is some nut selling A2 stocks (and stocks ONLY for $2k apiece on an online auction site. Just insanity!
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There is some nut selling A2 stocks (and stocks ONLY for $2k apiece on an online auction site. Just insanity!
Crazy. I just ordered a sully stock and magpul at msrp.
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I think I'll put some regular capacity Glock mags on "notify when in stock" at Midway. It'll be interesting to see when I get that email.
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I think I'll put some regular capacity Glock mags on "notify when in stock" at Midway. It'll be interesting to see when I get that email.
That was a good idea. I did the same. Shows the expected date for Glock 19 mags at just after tax day. Coincidence? [tinfoil]
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Saw some no name korean Glock 19 mags for sale at the lgs today. Nothing name brand and most of the other models were sold out. Atlantic is back to taking orders, but are sold out of everything and not taking backorders.
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That was a good idea. I did the same. Shows the expected date for Glock 19 mags at just after tax day. Coincidence? [tinfoil]
Lol, I did the same for my m&p 40 magazines and the expected availability is 2/9 so probably not a conspiracy!
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Stopped in at my LGS this afternoon. He's about cleaned out. No center fire ARs on the rack but he did have 1 AR style .22 RF and a couple of 9mm high point carbines. His handgun selection was low but he had a few Glocks and 1911s in the case. Ammo had been hit hard also.
Some interesting comments and discussions from the customers there. Some of it scary clueless, some was a little heartening.
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I backordered some Glock 17 mags through Dawson Precision.
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last week the local Wallyworld had a few .22LR's with pistol grips and DPMS and Sigs that were AR style, today they were all gone and idiots were standing around sharing their feeblemidedness with each other.
I'm thinking that next year, after the D's lose court case after court case they'll realize they cant get past heller/mcdonald and the market will be flooded with used gear/guns.
Right now imo is the time to stock up on cool stuff being ignored, like lever actions
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Saw some no name korean Glock 19 mags for sale at the lgs today. Nothing name brand and most of the other models were sold out. Atlantic is back to taking orders, but are sold out of everything and not taking backorders.
I've got a pile of the KCI magazines. The LGS I bought my 19 from had a box of them, $8 each. Every time I came by for a while I'd pick one up.
The only Glock magazines I've seen in gun store forays the last couple weeks have been them.
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"Thirty thousand lowers a week"
I dropped in on a customer today, to check the status of a quote we had in. We got to talking gun manufacturing (he is in the business, broadly (reloading equipment)). According to him there is a local company, about a mile from us, making 30K AR lowers, per week. Last I was in that place was about 10 years ago. At that time, I recall seeing AR parts and revolver frames, as rough forgings or castings.
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I stopped in at a gun store yesterday. I bought a bunch of his range lead waste. I chatted with the proprietor on the way over to the range building.
"What you got?" --him
"I've got a WASR, and 8 or 10 magazines. I'm going to sit on it, not do a thing with it." --me
"We just talked to Century. Prices on the WASR are going up five hundred bucks." --him
"!!!" --me.
Take it for what it's worth.
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"Thirty thousand lowers a week"
I dropped in on a customer today, to check the status of a quote we had in. We got to talking gun manufacturing (he is in the business, broadly (reloading equipment)). According to him there is a local company, about a mile from us, making 30K AR lowers, per week. Last I was in that place was about 10 years ago. At that time, I recall seeing AR parts and revolver frames, as rough forgings or castings.
What state? There are only a handful of shops that forge the AR lower.
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I think I'll put some regular capacity Glock mags on "notify when in stock" at Midway. It'll be interesting to see when I get that email.
I ordered and just received a pair of Beretta 92 mags- I couldn't find the original pop-up message, but they would only allow me to buy two at the time.
I still have 5 20rd AR-15 mags coming from Brownells- they were all that were left besides 5rd and 10rd mags.
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I can't get anything to sell. All of the distributors are out of ACOG scopes, EOTech sights, magazines, and anything else that's been good sellers for me. I have people wanting to order the stuff, but the quantities in stock at all of the distributors are "0".
I remember a lot of gun stores going out of business in 2009 because they couldn't get any product to sell.
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What state? There are only a handful of shops that forge the AR lower.
Illinois (http://www.anchorharvey.com)
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I just wonder if this run will be sustainable. Especially as an AK guy, with the lag in importing good rifles I hope things calm down and I can pick up a couple Saigas.
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Illinois (http://www.anchorharvey.com)
That was going to be my guess. Funny how two of the most anti-gun states, IL and MA, have such large gun manufacturing industries.
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That was going to be my guess. Funny how two of the most anti-gun states, IL and MA, have such large gun manufacturing industries.
I was in to another customer, not long ago. These guys do mostly cutting tools. When I found the head guy he was talking with some guy about making a chamber reamer.
"Oh, gun work. Cool." --me
"You have no idea how many companies around here do gun work." --him.
Turns out, there's another company locally, doing barrels for Ruger. (Redhawks, so I was told.)
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CT too... ;/
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That was going to be my guess. Funny how two of the most anti-gun states, IL and MA, have such large gun manufacturing industries.
You'd think those companies would have some sort of self-defense philosophy, huh? Sad. =|
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I've never understood the concept of running a business Ina locals that is unfriendly to your product.....
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I've never understood the concept of running a business Ina locals that is unfriendly to your product.....
I figure it must be their way of giving the middle finger to them.
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It's my understanding that a lot of the plants predate a lot of the anti-gun stupidity and that the locations of many of the plants are located in relatively close proximity to the raw materials and/or convenient transport for those materials.
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It's my understanding that a lot of the plants predate a lot of the anti-gun stupidity
This.
and that the locations of many of the plants are located in relatively close proximity to the raw materials and/or convenient transport for those materials.
Not really a factor these days. Transpo is cheap. Labor is expensive.
Chris
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Not really a factor these days. Transpo is cheap. Labor is expensive.
Chris
True. Though there was a time that being close to the ore, coal, railroads, and/or great lakes was a factor.
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This is true....but had Colt, Remington, or S&W moved to Texas decades ago, they would be so much better off than they are now...
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I figure it must be their way of giving the middle finger to them.
The capitalist in me says moving those jobs out of those states gives them both middle fingers.
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Most of 'em are union shops, too.
I'm looking forward to the day when Ruger shuts down the CT plant and moves everything to AZ, when the union up there gets too uppity or CT passes some stupid ban that crosses the line. Gone are the days of Bill Ruger's 10 round idiocy.
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If I'm not mistaken, Lies Bare did move out of Illinois over politics, but they are just a drop in the bucket.
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If I'm not mistaken, Lies Bare did move out of Illinois over politics, but they are just a drop in the bucket.
I can't figure out if that's a "damn you autocorrect!" or if you got a bad service from them. =D
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Oh my... :O
I got owned by autocorrect
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Oh my... :O
I got owned by autocorrect
:rofl:
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If I'm not mistaken, Lies Bare did move out of Illinois over politics, but they are just a drop in the bucket.
Just across the bridge into Iowa, wasn't it?
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I've never understood the concept of running a business Ina locals that is unfriendly to your product.....
And to steal this from Ron Thomas who posted this today on FB:
"URGENT ALERT – YOUR IMMEDIATE ACTION REQUIRED
CULLERTON TO INTRODUCE NEAR TOTAL GUN BAN ON JANUARY 2ND
The ISRA has learned from a credible source that Illinois Senate President John Cullerton will introduce a so called “assault weapons” ban on Wednesday when the legislature returns for its “lame duck” session."
http://campaign.r20.constantcontact.com/render?llr=86exi4bab&v=001mlQdTtwnjRDahckam4bGLxIbLfeFoyy__NjfukosErM6MPUP8j6ONIRSJbFQvJbUs63si2hhfguEl8Z30HnE7D1dTg3MRnBAoH-ABkVwdkumC7RehzveGXtBiMqVP23z8vSi6htNi4mkZRxj8BWCeioP5_x2t64FCnofEwFh25Dh6M53g1MeZ-fpVoyakQbpExdnEwbZF0F6G3kiI0n7a6eYvSGKc-BKRKnsHnWEhrhlFDsyjilnor_xjbo5ll_9 (http://campaign.r20.constantcontact.com/render?llr=86exi4bab&v=001mlQdTtwnjRDahckam4bGLxIbLfeFoyy__NjfukosErM6MPUP8j6ONIRSJbFQvJbUs63si2hhfguEl8Z30HnE7D1dTg3MRnBAoH-ABkVwdkumC7RehzveGXtBiMqVP23z8vSi6htNi4mkZRxj8BWCeioP5_x2t64FCnofEwFh25Dh6M53g1MeZ-fpVoyakQbpExdnEwbZF0F6G3kiI0n7a6eYvSGKc-BKRKnsHnWEhrhlFDsyjilnor_xjbo5ll_9)
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I was told today (by a normally reliable person) that the various firearms manufacturers are holding off building new guns while waiting to see what new regs might be coming.
I haven't seen or heard anything to back that up; has anyone here heard anything like that?
Personally, I'd think the manufacturers would be cranking them out the door as fast as possible - make the money while the making's good.
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Cliffh: This is probably true for new guns being developed, but I don't think the gunmakers are slowing current production down at all. If it looks like an anti-gun bill is likely to pass (never underestimate the GOP'S power to cave), then production might slow....just enought to use up parts inventory & sell what they can before the ban....
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Cliff, seeker: I disagree.
I heard rumors in 1994 of firms cranking out AR lowers and serializing them prior to the ban going into effect, so that they could still be sold as pre-94, pre-ban rifles.
Also, pre-86, MG makers were cranking out product to beat the deadline.
I expect Magpul will not make another non-black windowed pmag for at least a year... either until the proposed ban is defeated, or until they decide to shift to making 10rd mags. They will lease tens of thousands of additional square feet of warehouse space and stock it to the rafters with "pre-ban" magazines to sell.
Glock and the other polymer wunderine makers will do the same. Mags and frames.
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AZR: Thanks for agreeing with me.... =D
To clarify, I don't think the gun companies are going to do much in the way of R&D or introducing new products. Instead, they'll make as much of their current production as they can make & sell. If any (unlikely) bans look likely to pass, they'll have enough warning to do a final production push to use up parts inventory before they're forced to switch production over to non-banned items. And R&D will develop products that will legally skirt the ban....just like they did in 1994.....
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I wonder if these banners will be smarter this time around.
The 10rd capacity limit created two inadvertent drawbacks they hadn't planned on:
1. If I'm a criminal and want to do a drive-by or a school shooting, then I want lots of rounds. But if I'm limited to 10rds before a reload, then I want the 10 biggest rounds I can get. So, I'll run 45acp or 10mm instead of 9mm.
2. If I am a new potential gun owner and shopping for a gun that I might carry or use to protect myself, will I choose the 10rd 9mm handgun that is 6 inches tall, or the 10rd 9mm handgun that is 4.5 inches tall? I'm gonna choose the one I can carry and conceal more easily. And as a new gun owner that begins carrying and learning the law and learning self defense techniques, I'm going to learn that the law is nothing but a mockery of force and how stupid gun control is, which is why the 2004 sunset happened.
Feinstein won't put an automatic sunset in this second one.
But will she address the capacity and cartridge size disparity? What about folks that will shove 12rds of 9mm into a 10rd .40 magazine and stick that in their 9mm platform firearm that was limited to 10rds? No deliberate shrinking of gun designs to optimize size to magazine capacity?
Has anyone ever had an ATF technology branch ruling on filling a 10rd .40 magazine with 9mm and inserting that into a 9mm handgun? Is that "manufacturing post-ban" of a high capacity magazine?
I also hope the 1911 fad doesn't come roaring back again. Ugh. [barf]
I think the AWB created the 1911 mystique. When limited to 10rds or less, the 1911 ain't that bad. Except for its inherent need to be fine tuned on the feed/extraction stroke to work with anything but ball.
I take out my dad's Sig, or my XD's, or my Beretta, or my CZ, or the Glock 21 I used to have, or my friend's Glocks, or even my brother's Smith SD... it'll run hollowpoints. Or flatnose bullets.
But... my Charles Daly 1911. Or my Sig GSR 1911. Or my Colt 1991. Or my Colt XSE LW Commander. Or my dad's Kimber 9mm. All of 'em required extractor tension tuning (and the GSR never ran right due to frame geometry defects). They'll run for several thousand rounds, and then loosen up slowly again. And then they'll start slowly failing with hollowpoints or flatnosed bullets again.
Yes, the trigger is awesome.
But to me, it just isn't worth the rest of the platform's liabilities. Double-plus so when you bring capacity into the argument also, but even still so when you live within the constraints of a 10rd ban.
I don't see a lot of 1911's on the face of gunrags recently, and this is good. But I suspect they'll be back on there again if a new capacity ban is enacted.
Frankly, if there is a new ban, I'd love to see a new cartridge come out in the G21/XD45 sized wunderpistol offerings... a 250 to 300 gr .475 diameter at 800fps. Call it the .475 PoliSlayer, or Liberator, or the .475 Declaration, or something equally menacing. Design it to fit the G20/G21 mag well with 10rds fitting it naturally, just barely.
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They already have .45 super.
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They already have .45 super.
It's gotta NATURALLY fit 10 rounds.
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I wonder if these banners will be smarter this time around.
The 10rd capacity limit created two inadvertent drawbacks they hadn't planned on:
1. If I'm a criminal and want to do a drive-by or a school shooting, then I want lots of rounds. But if I'm limited to 10rds before a reload, then I want the 10 biggest rounds I can get. So, I'll run 45acp or 10mm instead of 9mm.
You're kidding, right? Criminals don't care what gun they use, unless they need someting super small for concealability. I know cops that have picked up criminals with guns with the wrong size ammunition in them, magazines jammed in backwards, rounds in the magazines backwards, 2 or 3 rounds in a 15 round magazine, and some other brilliant ones.
If they're limited by the magazine size, they'll just carry some new york reloads.
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1911 "fad"? I don't know of many fads that have lasted 107 years.
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I saw the big boost in 1911 sales as IPSC got going hot and heavy, and that was way before the '94 Ban.
Ichiro Nagata and his red backgrounds in American Handgunner...
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1911 "fad"? I don't know of many fads that have lasted 107 years.
Most cops hated automatics up until the 3rd gen S&W's and 1st gen Glocks came out in the 80's. Government .45's included.
1911's weren't carried by many folks until they became flashy bling BBQ gun status symbols in the mid 90's. The CCW movement revived them due to the thin profile and excellent trigger, and since firearms research was essentially a dead-end from a financial perspective (Can't innovate due to AWB and mag capacity restrictions), 1911 gunsmithing was the big high-dollar industry to jump into.
I remember being in Tacoma WA for college in 1996 to 2000, and TPD switched from Berettas to Kimber 1911's. It was a big deal. Here's a news article on it:
http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/review/Tacoma_ProCarry.htm
“We’re the first major police department to transition to the 1911 in 50 years,” said Sgt. Mark Jenkins, the department’s range master and an instrumental player in the selection of the new guns.
Sgt Jenkins did about a year of research when tackling this issue... if some other major PD had chosen the 1911, he would have known about it. Kimber has been milking the TPD choice for a decade or more now, off-and-on, in their marketing.
PD's that issue service guns to officers typically don't choose the 1911 (with the exception of SWAT/HRT units).
I think Tacoma got:
1. A sweetheart deal from Kimber that made 1911's available to them for the price of Glocks and Sigs
2. Extra armorer training from Kimber, and already had a rangemaster/armorer that had a fetish for the 1911
3. A selection committee that got sucked into the regular guy 1911 propaganda in the wake of the AWB.
Otherwise, you'd have more PD's out there between 1950 and 2000 that issued 1911's.
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I think the AWB created the 1911 mystique. When limited to 10rds or less, the 1911 ain't that bad. Except for its inherent need to be fine tuned on the feed/extraction stroke to work with anything but ball.
I take out my dad's Sig, or my XD's, or my Beretta, or my CZ, or the Glock 21 I used to have, or my friend's Glocks, or even my brother's Smith SD... it'll run hollowpoints. Or flatnose bullets.
But... my Charles Daly 1911. Or my Sig GSR 1911. Or my Colt 1991. Or my Colt XSE LW Commander. Or my dad's Kimber 9mm. All of 'em required extractor tension tuning (and the GSR never ran right due to frame geometry defects). They'll run for several thousand rounds, and then loosen up slowly again. And then they'll start slowly failing with hollowpoints or flatnosed bullets again.
Weird. I've run a variety of Colts and Kimbers without ever running into this problem using ball, a variety of hollow points, truncated cone or SWC. I'm warming up to several other designs, but I've never had a problem with 1911s in this regard.
Frankly, if there is a new ban, I'd love to see a new cartridge come out in the G21/XD45 sized wunderpistol offerings... a 250 to 300 gr .475 diameter at 800fps. Call it the .475 PoliSlayer, or Liberator, or the .475 Declaration, or something equally menacing. Design it to fit the G20/G21 mag well with 10rds fitting it naturally, just barely.
That would be cool, but probably would have to end up being a weak sauce cartridge that existed only to make the magazines available.
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I'm not any kind of a 1911 expert by any possible stretch of the imagination. I've got 3 1911s A Kimber Custom II a Rock Island FS and a Rock Island compact. None of them have ever given me any trouble as to feeding ball HP or cast rn bullets. Any issues I've had have been magazine related. The factory magazine that came with the FS Rock Island doesn't like to feed my chosen SD HP load. Other than that I've had no problems with the dozen or so Kimber 7 rd mags I use.
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Oh, my. The dreaded 1911 vs. Glock topic.
Up next: .45 vs. 9 mm.
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Oh, my. The dreaded 1911 vs. Glock topic.
Up next: .45 vs. 9 mm.
How about we just call it even and go with a 9mm 1911? [popcorn]
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Short barrel 44mag unless your undies have lace on the hem.
Chris
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Short barrel 44mag unless your undies have lace on the hem.
Chris
What undies?
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Frankly, if there is a new ban, I'd love to see a new cartridge come out in the G21/XD45 sized wunderpistol offerings... a 250 to 300 gr .475 diameter at 800fps. Call it the .475 PoliSlayer, or Liberator, or the .475 Declaration, or something equally menacing. Design it to fit the G20/G21 mag well with 10rds fitting it naturally, just barely.
Isn't that new wish list cartridge basically the 50 GI?
http://www.guncrafterindustries.com/50gi-chp.shtml
Okay, maybe that doesn't go heavy enough for you.
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How about we just call it even and go with a 9mm 1911?
Ooh, ooh! How about the .45 GAP?!?!?!?! Wundercartridge extraordinaire! :rofl:
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Short barrel 44mag unless your undies have lace on the hem.
Chris
I doubt I'd have much problem with a short barrel 44 mag, and my undies do happen to have lace on them.
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What undies?
TMI ;)
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I doubt I'd have much problem with a short barrel 44 mag, and my undies do happen to have lace on them.
Do tell us more......about the .44Mag, of course....
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Do tell us more......about the .44Mag, of course....
Just don't go into the long barrel versus short barrel debate. :lol:
Anyone here have the Glock 10mm or 50GI? AZredhawks idea of a large caliber has me thinking. I was thinking the 50AE might fit that description also.
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...my undies do happen to have lace on them.
Oh, behave!
Most cops hated automatics up until the 3rd gen S&W's and 1st gen Glocks came out in the 80's. Government .45's included....
PD's that issue service guns to officers typically don't choose the 1911 (with the exception of SWAT/HRT units)....
Otherwise, you'd have more PD's out there between 1950 and 2000 that issued 1911's.
If the 1911 "fad" was begun by the high-cap ban, which didn't affect cops, why are you talking about what police carry? And what does 1950 have to do with it? And doesn't the use of 1911s by SWAT units militate against your point? Are SWAT units deliberately choosing mediocre guns, or could it have something to do with SWAT units having the training/mindset to not be freaked out by a cocked hammer? (Which indicates a problem with police, not the gun they're not using.)
1911's weren't carried by many folks until they became flashy bling BBQ gun status symbols in the mid 90's.
How do you know that, and don't you think you're failing to take into account that most private citizens carrying a gun before the '90s wouldn't be talking about what they are carrying?
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Side note
It is very distracting for me to help Amanda try on holsters, particularly iwb
Shes always wearing something sexy.
Usually when I'm at full staff in a gun store it's because of the GUNS
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2.78 million NICS in December. =)
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/01/02/us-usa-guns-record-idUSBRE9010H020130102
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Side note
It is very distracting for me to help Amanda try on holsters, particularly iwb
Shes always wearing something sexy.
Usually when I'm at full staff in a gun store it's because of the GUNS
Anything we can do to help?..... ;)
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Side note
It is very distracting for me to help Amanda try on holsters, particularly iwb
Shes always wearing something sexy.
Usually when I'm at full staff in a gun store it's because of the GUNS
Just picture Diane Finestein nekkid [barf]
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Just picture Diane Finestein nekkid [barf]
What has been imagined cannot be un-imagined. You sadistic bastige... dont'cha have any r'spect fer us innocent-minded folk 'round here!?
Brad
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Just picture Diane Finestein nekkid [barf]
can't do it. I just look at the face and I don't want to think any lower. [barf]
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can't do it. I just look at the face and I don't want to think any lower. [barf]
That's not her face...
Brad
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Just picture Diane Finestein nekkid [barf]
{backing off the ban button} Wow, I hope that image is seared into your brain for suggesting that. :P =D :laugh:
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2.78 million NICS in December. =)
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/01/02/us-usa-guns-record-idUSBRE9010H020130102
I suppose some of those are used guns, but how many do you suppose were new AR-15 types ??? =|
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Just picture Diane Finestein nekkid [barf]
This suggestion did not disturb me at all. Now, if Larry had suggested Dianne Feinstein, the Senator from California, that would be cause for alarm.
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I suppose some of those are used guns, but how many do you suppose were new AR-15 types ??? =|
Don't forget the Ak's. to completely empty the inventory of every online retailer inside of a week that had to be a good number of units.
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Just picture Diane Finestein nekkid [barf]
...bound in duct tape, in a concrete cell of some unmarked safe-house of the resistance...
I'm pretty good at turning most anything into a "happy thought" if I try hard enough. :angel:
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Cliff, seeker: I disagree.
I heard rumors in 1994 of firms cranking out AR lowers and serializing them prior to the ban going into effect, so that they could still be sold as pre-94, pre-ban rifles.
..........
Personally, I'd think the manufacturers would be cranking them out the door as fast as possible - make the money while the making's good.
Too bad we disagree, especially since it seems we were both thinking along the same lines..... ;)
I've wanted a 1911 since '75, first time I shot one. But only because of what it is and it's history, not because I thought it to be an accurate, reliable shooter - without a bunch of work. Bragging rights, if you will. If I were to ever get one, it'd most likely be my BBQ gun, not my daily carry gun.
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Went in Academy for some hoppes and CLP, and checked the ammo situation. Almost no auto handgun ammo (plenty of .380 though), plenty of hunting rifle amo. No, I mean not a single round, AR or AK ammo. They had some defensive .45 and 6 boxes of Tula (which I snatched up).
Interesting seeing such a lack of ammo in the stores.
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I noticed when buying new furniture for one of my AKs that most sources were sold out.
I finally managed to find what I wanted at Cabelas of all places, but I did have to pay about $20 more than their sold-out competitors. =(
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I noticed when buying new furniture for one of my AKs that most sources were sold out.
I finally managed to find what I wanted at Cabelas of all places, but I did have to pay about $20 more than their sold-out competitors. =(
You can make that up when you sell the old furniture.... ;)
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I noticed when buying new furniture for one of my AKs that most sources were sold out.
I finally managed to find what I wanted at Cabelas of all places, but I did have to pay about $20 more than their sold-out competitors. =(
Oddly, the Cabelas in Kansas City still has tons of ammo, including lots of .223, 9mm, 7.62x39.
Limit 10 boxes per customer, though.
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Scout,
That's the plan. ;)
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Gun show in Lubbock last weekend was wall-to-wall people and parking was non-existent. Event promotors said their attendance was double the best show they'd ever had. Given the crowd I had to fight through I'm surprised it wasn't triple or more.
Prices? Redonkulous. pMags for $60-70? Gag. Plain old A2 Rock Rivers for $1700-1800!!?? Yeesh. Rock River's suggested retail on the A2 is a mere $1020 and a month ago you could buy them in truckload quatities for $700-ish. This is getting outta hand.
Brad
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Went to the local shop that specializes in AR's the other day....
Empty....
Totally empty....
Of guns, that is. Except one oddball SBR'd AR, and there was someone asking about it.... Only to be told that three other people have their names on it, just waiting for the paperwork from ATF.... Whoever gets it first, I guess....
They had a couple of glock pistols, looked like trade-ins, but they looked to have been ridden hard and put away wet....
He had some cases of PMC .45 auto, saw two of them walk out the door in the 15 mins I was there.
They had some accessories, mostly sights, sling mounts, that kinda stuff...
Had maybe a dozen M2 PMags, split between 20 and 30 rounders.... $30 for the 30's, when they'd been 15 before this whole mess started....
They said that they were working on getting more stock, but didn't know when it was coming in, etc....
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Went to the local shop that specializes in AR's the other day....
Empty....
Totally empty....
Of guns, that is. Except one oddball SBR'd AR, and there was someone asking about it.... Only to be told that three other people have their names on it, just waiting for the paperwork from ATF.... Whoever gets it first, I guess....
They had a couple of glock pistols, looked like trade-ins, but they looked to have been ridden hard and put away wet....
He had some cases of PMC .45 auto, saw two of them walk out the door in the 15 mins I was there.
They had some accessories, mostly sights, sling mounts, that kinda stuff...
Had maybe a dozen M2 PMags, split between 20 and 30 rounders.... $30 for the 30's, when they'd been 15 before this whole mess started....
They said that they were working on getting more stock, but didn't know when it was coming in, etc....
ATF does not allow multiple applications for the same NFA item. What the shop might have meant is whoever came in with the money for the gun and ready to fill out a Form 4 and $200 to the ATF would get it, but it's only "first come first serve" from the gunshop's end of things, no such thing as an "ATF race" for something like that. ???
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Went in Academy for some hoppes and CLP, and checked the ammo situation. Almost no auto handgun ammo (plenty of .380 though), plenty of hunting rifle amo. No, I mean not a single round, AR or AK ammo. They had some defensive .45 and 6 boxes of Tula (which I snatched up).
Interesting seeing such a lack of ammo in the stores.
I stopped by my local Academy last Sunday and it was very similar. Not a single round of .223 or 7.62x39 to be seen. The only .22lr I saw was ratshot, and there was just a little 9mm SD ammo, no FMJ range ammo. There was a moderate supply of .40S&W, .45ACP and .380ACP.
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ATF does not allow multiple applications for the same NFA item. What the shop might have meant is whoever came in with the money for the gun and ready to fill out a Form 4 and $200 to the ATF would get it, but it's only "first come first serve" from the gunshop's end of things, no such thing as an "ATF race" for something like that. ???
Could be that I misunderstood what he was saying... Wasn't 100% paying attention to their conversation....
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One Million AR-15 Magazines On Backorder (http://cnsnews.com/blog/gregory-gwyn-williams-jr/panic-one-million-ar-15-magazines-backorder)
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This makes me feel hopeful that folks maybe won't turn around and hand over things they JUST spent good money for. Also makes a statement to the number of folks who are opposed to the proposed bans.
Gun stores here are unable to keep things in stock either.
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This makes me feel hopeful that folks maybe won't turn around and hand over things they JUST spent good money for. Also makes a statement to the number of folks who are opposed to the proposed bans.
Gun stores here are unable to keep things in stock either.
I agree. I'm hopeful because I've also seen every range (and my dad told me its the same back home) I've been to lately has been packed to the gills, mainly with folks new to the sport. I've also seen a large number of us that are old to the sport (referring to all firearm activities in that sense, as the word fits best here) offering advice (I've had three different couples ask me for recommendations and also ask me to teach them basic safety and marksmanship in the past month), helping out, providing facts for argument, etc.
This is good:
1. Proof once again Americans in general do not like being told what they can and can't do.
2. People purchasing at even marked up prices in this economy, or forgoing "normal" purchases to obtain firearms and ammunition means if a confiscation occurs, they will likely at least passively resist, as who wants to "lose" thousands of dollars
3. More people are learning that shooting can be entertaining/cathartic/useful as a skill
4. More households are armed...I would bet crime stats will be depressed downward across the nation (likely a function of how readily new arms can be obtained from a state to state basis) meaning our population will be safer, and providing even more statistical ammunition to support the real conclusions--more guns, less crime. Criminals have got to be viewing this massive buy-up as bad for their profession, especially burglars.
In the same vein that airplane hijackings have been eliminated as terrorists now know the passengers will violently resist, I would get we see massive reduction in home invasions over the next months.
5. More people will be firearm owners and know basic firearm safety, meaning the population as a whole will be statistically moving toward our side, and the taboo will start to crack.
I read an odd calculation, assuming an average firearm plus ammunition purchase value with these prices of $1000 for each NICS check, that means in about 6 weeks, nearly $5 billion was spent on firearms and ammunition. Since normal non-food/living expense/vehicle purchasing in the US is about $50 billion per month, that means that firearms are accounting for nearly 5 PERCENT of the consumer goods economy, which is crazy! It also means that if you assume an average car payment of $300/month per household, and 100 million households, that means that on average one in six households is spending more on firearms than transportation! Those are dominating economic stats.
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This makes me feel hopeful that folks maybe won't turn around and hand over things they JUST spent good money for. Also makes a statement to the number of folks who are opposed to the proposed bans.
Gun stores here are unable to keep things in stock either.
I would like to know if these are "new shooters" or just people that had already owned guns. Either way it is still a good thing, but politically, I would prefer if it were an influx of new people getting into it.
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We're seeing a LOT of range activity too, Birdman.
We had to cancel several classes in the months leading up to the holidays due to lack of attendance. Our first two classes since the gun ban news hit are this weekend and I've had to turn folks away simply because we don't have enough study materials. All of our January classes are filling up. And I'm starting my women's personal defense program on Feb 2 (six week program) and it's filling up fast.
And for the record, our classes are the same price now as they were in 2012. In fact, we're giving discounts to folks who sign up for more than one course.
SteveS - The First Steps pistol course I'm assisting with tomorrow, there are 12 folks who've recently purchased their first handguns. Also have two entire families who are coming: husband, wife, and teenage kids.
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people like Mrs smith may remember I said to stock up on mags/ammo/"guns" on the day after the election.
I wasn't able to follow my own advice :'(
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people like Mrs smith may remember I said to stock up on mags/ammo/"guns" on the day after the election.
I wasn't able to follow my own advice :'(
Me neither....and I just blew 200rds getting my wife & her friends through the TX CHL course....
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people like Mrs smith may remember I said to stock up on mags/ammo/"guns" on the day after the election.
I wasn't able to follow my own advice
Me too
I had to burn off off the ammo i had, because of a PCS move.
What really scare is almost no ammo available, to stock up!
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I remember, Gunsmith. =)
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Weirdly, I have been considering EBRs and pistols very little over the last month.
I have plenty of mags and ammo, and EBRs.
I did add a mag extension to an 870 that I have, just because I always wanted to and there is no demand pressure on shotgun magazine extensions (yet).
I spent about 20 hours of my free time researching scopes for long range shooting and ordered my first mildot scope and mildot calculator. Next item will probably be a wind meter.
There's still plenty of very useful stuff to be had out there if you consider 'assault weapons' to be the proverbial 'canary in the coal mine.'
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people like Mrs smith may remember I said to stock up on mags/ammo/"guns" on the day after the election.
I wasn't able to follow my own advice :'(
After which election?
I started getting serious after Nov. 2006.
Weirdly, I have been considering EBRs and pistols very little over the last month.
I have plenty of mags and ammo, and EBRs.
Likewise. Just glad I started when I did. "Plenty"? Well, no, but enough, hopefully.
I did add a mag extension to an 870 that I have, just because I always wanted to and there is no demand pressure on shotgun magazine extensions (yet).
Squirm, squirm. I'm going to try to scare up enough cash, real soon now, for a basic 12 gauge pump. I've got my mental eye on an Wally World H&R Pardner Protector.
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Weirdly, I have been considering EBRs and pistols very little over the last month.
I have plenty of mags and ammo, and EBRs.
I did add a mag extension to an 870 that I have, just because I always wanted to and there is no demand pressure on shotgun magazine extensions (yet).
I spent about 20 hours of my free time researching scopes for long range shooting and ordered my first mildot scope and mildot calculator. Next item will probably be a wind meter.
There's still plenty of very useful stuff to be had out there if you consider 'assault weapons' to be the proverbial 'canary in the coal mine.'
What scope did you order?
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Weirdly, I have been considering EBRs and pistols very little over the last month.
I have plenty of mags and ammo, and EBRs.
I did add a mag extension to an 870 that I have, just because I always wanted to and there is no demand pressure on shotgun magazine extensions (yet).
I spent about 20 hours of my free time researching scopes for long range shooting and ordered my first mildot scope and mildot calculator. Next item will probably be a wind meter.
There's still plenty of very useful stuff to be had out there if you consider 'assault weapons' to be the proverbial 'canary in the coal mine.'
2nd on the scope.
Also get a nice bipod.
As for wind meters...kestrel. Period.
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What scope did you order?
Swfa ss 10x40 mil/mil
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What kind of madmen are lining up at 4AM at the sporting goods store to raid the place of newly-delivered .22LR? Madness. I wanted more ammo for my AR conversion bolt (and lever gun), but there is none available. I actually found one place with .22 short, but that's it.
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I can't understand the run on .22LR either. The local Wal Mart got in two cases last Friday and sold out in less than 2 hours. As far as I know, .22LR isn't on anyone's hit list.
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I can't understand the run on .22LR either. The local Wal Mart got in two cases last Friday and sold out in less than 2 hours. As far as I know, .22LR isn't on anyone's hit list.
A. Part of the "get whatever I can" mentality.
B. Stocking up on .22 LR for recreational purposes because they're thinking that everything else will be scarce or too expensive for several months to a year. (probably right)
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I've still got a bunch of bulk .22, from '08 when that was the only thing available.
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I've still got a bunch of bulk .22, from '08 when that was the only thing available.
I've been buying a 500-555 carton whenever I could over the past year or so because even at the "new normal" it was mainly what I could afford,
And what little I could do because of learning my lesson from the '08 panic too.
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I've got customers ordering Leupold and Bushnell scopes, and even that stuff is all gone.
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I've got customers ordering Leupold and Bushnell scopes, and even that stuff is all gone.
How about moccasins? Are those still in stock?
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I've got customers ordering Leupold and Bushnell scopes, and even that stuff is all gone.
Go out and get a bunch of softball size rocks. Then tie them to sticks and advertise them as "assault clubs".
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http://www.ebay.com/itm/Assault-Weapon-Cavemans-AR15-Assault-Rock-/160953713972?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2&hash=item257996c534
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Did you see the CURRENT BID!!??
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Playing with the Lee Classic Turret, I plum ran myself out of cast lead .38 bullets. It'll be a while before I can cast, so just for grins I check Midway to see what's on hand.
Status (http://www.midwayusa.com/find?sortby=1&itemsperpage=20&newcategorydimensionid=15540)
Available 1
In stock 1
Unavailable 24
No backorder 24
Backing up to the main bulk handgun bullet page, 37 SKUs show as available (of which 29 are actually in stock, the rest are orderable or back-orderable). 116 are showing as unavailable, cannot be backordered.
(No need to point me to sources. I will cast, once it starts to warm up in March, and I'm unlikely to shoot through much or any of what I have before then.)
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Seen today: Drako type AK Pistol thing. $1295.
Saiga converted to plain jane standard AK. $1495
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People are buying $900 AR15's 2 at a time at the local Academy stores and turning them around for $1500-$2000.
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These prices seem to have "fallen back" just a bit.
Probably because we're now over the hump of Obama's EO's, and finally deciding "it's dead" with Congress takes a lot longer, and has a fuzzy deadline to declare the gun control push as finished and failed.
http://hobnobblog.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/2013_Congressional_Calendar_web3.pdf
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We'll know for sure when the January data for FBI NICS finalizes. In normal times January sales plummet from December peaks. If January numbers are as high as I suspect, near November numbers of ~2M, then the whole supply chain will be empty until July regardless of the politics.
Due to the crazy sales this December, then I suspect the January sales would have to be below January normal for the supply chain to even begin to catch up. Normal would be ~1.5M.
For the first 2 weeks, from 12/31/2012 to 1/13/2013, the NICS has been completed ~1.1M times. So ~1.5M will be easily beat. I suspect the month will hit around ~2.2M +/-10%. This makes me conclude that supply chain and prices won't stabilize until very late in the year, maybe July or August.
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Let me clarify, the 2008 sales spike and ammo shortages didn't really affect my normal sources. But if 2008 was a painful situation for you, this gun run is at least 3x bigger.
I barely notices any problems in 2008, but today the walls are bare now.
So I expect my local market to be back to roughly normal by mid to next year. Your mileage may very.
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Let me clarify, the 2008 sales spike and ammo shortages didn't really affect my normal sources. But if 2008 was a painful situation for you, this gun run is at least 3x bigger.
I barely notices any problems in 2008, but today the walls are bare now.
So I expect my local market to be back to roughly normal by mid to next year. Your mileage may very.
Same place I saw the insane prices on the converted Saiga and the AK pistol, had a generic GI type Rock Island 1911. "Tell me about that." "9mm, $550."
I asked him about the same thing in .45. He laughed, and said six months, maybe.
(<Scowl>. I've got a co-worker wanting to buy my Bersa*. I'll only sell if I can roll over into another .45.)
*(if the Ill-i-noise Statspoletzai can get their act together and get his FOID to him. We've got 3 people at work who did their application the day after the election. The law says 30 days, but...)
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The panic buying is over. How do I know? Because one of my distributors got in some XD .45 magazines and Beretta 9000 magazines and I bought some to sell. As soon as I buy, people stop buying, or they start buying something else, like toaster ovens.
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I feel your pain ML.
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The panic buying is over. How do I know? Because one of my distributors got in some XD .45 magazines and Beretta 9000 magazines and I bought some to sell. As soon as I buy, people stop buying, or they start buying something else, like toaster ovens.
If you get some XDm 9mm mags let me know. My brother needs some.
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If you get some XDm 9mm mags let me know. My brother needs some.
Same here....esp. the 13rd compact mags....
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Same here....esp. the 13rd compact mags....
Let me know if you get xd9, xdm40, 1911, g21,...hell, what do you have?
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Right now the distributors are out of all handgun mags, and all rifle mags except the three or five-shot mags for Brownings and things like that.
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If you get some XDm 9mm mags let me know. My brother needs some.
Was able to place an order for 3x19rd mags with Springfield Armory for $34 each. Of course, they did say that it could take 6-8 weeks to get them.
Everywhere that had them cheaper (one place advertised $27 each) was out of stock, most of them said no backorders permitted.
I'll let you know when (if?) they come in.
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We're officially in weird times.
Good friend at church asked me for handgun purchase advice. I've know him for 10+ years. Never would have thought he'd be interested. He was as disinterested in guns for me to wonder if there might be something in his background to make him a prohibited possessor (he was a druggie in his heathen days).
He hasn't even got his Illinois FOID yet. I had to tell him he's way behind behind in the process, in a very weird market.
(I'll find something to loan him once he gets his FOID, if it comes to that.)
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No idea about guns at the moment, but you can't find ammo around here. We had a private class this weekend for a group of church guys (the Church paid for the training) and we require them to bring 200 rounds. Three of the guys called me this week asking if I knew where to find some (.380, 40 & 45). I called four stores before I found one that had any in stock. I'm running low on 9mm too, and can't find it. Bass Pro's out, all four of our bigger LGS are out. I asked a friend who manages one of the LGS to put back six boxes for me when he gets the next shipment. He only did it because I send him business and made me swear not to tell anyone he was holding it for me.
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A church group doing some range time. That just warms the cockles. =)
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It does, doesn't it? They contacted us and asked us to do a security evaluation of the Church, then provide training to half a dozen men with concealed carry permits. I contacted a gun rights lawyer in GA and asked about the law.
It’s nice to hear from you. You would not infer this from reading the statute, but the State of Georgia has taken the position (and the courts have agreed) that a person can, upon arrival at church, “notify security or management” of the weapon and follow directions for it, which can include keeping it secured in the holster. Who qualifies as “security or management” of a church is going to vary from institution to institution
These guys will now be "security" per a Church policy written specifically for this situation. They did well in training and are excited to do more. We're working up another course for them in which we'll actually go to the sanctuary and train with airsoft guns. This whole things is being kept quiet, both within the church and outside of our training group - no sense in challenging the naysayers. Incidentally, this is one of the bigger churches in SAV, not some storefront operation. It really does warm the heart.
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One of my wife's former employees was her pastors wife's personal security at her church. Armed to boot.
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That brings up another thing. Ammo for classes. Anywhere from 200 to 250 is common or even up to 600+ rds for a major carbine class. People that scheduled training months ago, arranging hotel rooms, transportation, time off, etc and not being able to do their class? It used to not be a problem to sign up for say, a EAG class out in AZ and fly out there with your guns and gear and have the ammo drop shipped directly to the host.
And we cant even say "Use a .22 instead" cause you cant get any! I shoot lots of .22 (4 rifles and 3 pistols) and I have had to curtail that because I cant replace what I use
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I actually saw .22lr ammo in a store yesterday! Except it was $45 for a brick of 500 Fiochi standard velocity :(
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I actually saw .22lr ammo in a store yesterday! Except it was $45 for a brick of 500 Fiochi standard velocity :(
And I bet it didnt last long.
I hear tell that 10/22s are going for $400 plus on Gunbroker. Insane!
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I've had two people who were never particularly interested in guns approach me about buying handguns recently.
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I've had two people who were never particularly interested in guns approach me about buying handguns recently.
I've had one do that. Most of my friends/acquaintances are either anti or pro, not many undecided, so for one to make plans to purchase is fairly significant.
Chris
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I've had two people who were never particularly interested in guns approach me about buying handguns recently.
They're coming out of the woodwork (or closet?). Can't recall exactly how many friends and coworkers have asked, but it's a half dozen or so.
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I was at the range over the weekend. There was a group of four men in their late 60's maybe early 70's by my estimation. In speaking with them, they told me that they had all lived in the same dorm together at Harvard. One of them was a shooter, and the other three were seeking help in deciding on what their first gun would be.
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I just spent several hours this weekend giving hands on instruction and some advice I a bran new shooter. In his late 40s and tired of being defenseless.
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They're coming out of the woodwork (or closet?). Can't recall exactly how many friends and coworkers have asked, but it's a half dozen or so.
Same for me.
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Ran by the gunshop on Sat. No 22LR at all. Only a smattering of the high-dollar stuff in both 9mm and 45 acp. .223/5.56 FMJ?? Fuggedaboutit. What little they can get in is mostly pre-sold.
ARs's? I saw seven on a rack that usually has 50-70. The ones in stock were priced at full MSRP (or higher). pMags were $49.95, limit two. Middle-of-the-road SA handguns - Glock, Springfield XD, Ruger SC's, etc - were sparse. Conceal-carry stuff like LCPs, Kahrs, Kimber Solos, XDS's and such were glaringly out of stock. They didn't say how many, but the waiting list for an LCP is apparently pretty impressive.
Brad
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Ran by the gunshop on Sat. No 22LR at all. Only a smattering of the high-dollar stuff in both 9mm and 45 acp. .223/5.56 FMJ?? Fuggedaboutit. What little they can get in is mostly pre-sold.
ARs's? I saw seven on a rack that usually has 50-70. The ones in stock were priced at full MSRP (or higher). pMags were $49.95, limit two. Middle-of-the-road SA handguns - Glock, Springfield XD, Ruger SC's, etc - were sparse. Conceal-carry stuff like LCPs, Kahrs, Kimber Solos, XDS's and such were glaringly out of stock. They didn't say how many, but the waiting list for an LCP is apparently pretty impressive.
Brad
Even a rumor of an AR in stock and for sale at MSRP would cause traffic jams around here. Where was this? I was in a Walmart last evening ~ 6:00PM, and there were folks standing around the ammo case and nearby aisles, obviously waiting for something to be set out. A little banter among them, no real tension. Only autopistol ammo I saw was some .380. Only .22 was ratshot.
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It does, doesn't it? They contacted us and asked us to do a security evaluation of the Church, then provide training to half a dozen men with concealed carry permits. I contacted a gun rights lawyer in GA and asked about the law.
These guys will now be "security" per a Church policy written specifically for this situation. They did well in training and are excited to do more. We're working up another course for them in which we'll actually go to the sanctuary and train with airsoft guns. This whole things is being kept quiet, both within the church and outside of our training group - no sense in challenging the naysayers. Incidentally, this is one of the bigger churches in SAV, not some storefront operation. It really does warm the heart.
My church is supposed to be putting together a security plan, too. We already have some CCW folks carrying in services, and I'll be one of them, soon.
And, yeah, all sub rosa.
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I was at the Walmart in Glen Ellyn yesterday. This has always been good place to find cheap ammo, as not many people around here know they carry ammo.
At least, that's what I use to think.
They did have 2 boxes of 250rds of .45ACP from UMC for $103. Some .17 HMR, .22Mag, .270, .30-30, a box of .30-06 and some .40S&W, along with the usual bolt-action hunting fodder. Lots of shotgun ammo though. No 9mm, .22LR, 7.62xanything, 5.56 and whole bunch of empty shelves.
I was depressed and happy at the same time. =| :O
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My brother has told me that the local Cabelas is completely out of ammo of pretty much everything. He has also told me that one of his friends that works there said they are not just out of stock of .223 but that they will no longer be getting in. I think he is full of it. Probably actually means that where they order from is simply backordered like crazy.
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The black market should be opening up any day now...
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The black market should be opening up any day now...
I figure right about the time credit card statements start coming in and the wives see the new balance hubby ran up in his "ZOMG GOTTA BUY ALL I CAN FIND!!!" spree.
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My brother has told me that the local Cabelas is completely out of ammo of pretty much everything. He has also told me that one of his friends that works there said they are not just out of stock of .223 but that they will no longer be getting in. I think he is full of it. Probably actually means that where they order from is simply backordered like crazy.
I was in the local cabelas on Sunday. The ammo shelves are bare.
No 9mm, .40,.45, .223, 7.62x39, .308, 30-06 of any kind. .22 is limited to oddball stuff like CB caps.
There are no .224" bullets except Berger VLDs, ditto for .308 bullets. A week earlier I bought 3 boxes of 168gr Hornady A-MAX bullets, a guy was talking to was telling me the Hornady SST bullets were good for long range accuracy as well, and there were several boxes then.
The brass selection was very limited- likewise oddball stuff like .338 Lapua, 44-40, .222, etc.
I didn't check primers, but a week earlier, they only had magnum handgun primers in stock.
They had big holes in the gun racks where AR-15s used to reside. The Remington and Savage bolt action police/tactical models are all gone as well.
King of reminds me of a soviet era grocery store- shelves are empty, people are milling around hoping for something...
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CMP does have Aquila target .22LR but only for a case of 5000 at $315 plus $25 shipping. Anybody want to split a case? I'd like to try a few hundred before I commit to that much. I'll cover shipping to my house and turn it over for cost plus shipping to your house. Long as it's all legal and proper like to do so.
oops, wrong thread. :facepalm:
I'll leave it here anyways.
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My brother has told me that the local Cabelas is completely out of ammo of pretty much everything. He has also told me that one of his friends that works there said they are not just out of stock of .223 but that they will no longer be getting in. I think he is full of it. Probably actually means that where they order from is simply backordered like crazy.
I dunno. Grafs is on a six week backlog and states on their website that until further notice they are not accepting backorders. I think it's gonna be a good while before manufacturers can catch up with demand.
I'm curious as to how this affects law enforcement. Do they get priority, or are they in line like everyone else? From a profit only standpoint, outlets like Cabela's would be the priority, since they likely buy more ammo than all US law enforcement combined.
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CMP does have Aquila target .22LR but only for a case of 5000 at $315 plus $25 shipping. Anybody want to split a case? I'd like to try a few hundred before I commit to that much. I'll cover shipping to my house and turn it over for cost plus shipping to your house. Long as it's all legal and proper like to do so.
Sure. What kind of split do you want?
I'm curious as to how this affects law enforcement. Do they get priority, or are they in line like everyone else? From a profit only standpoint, outlets like Cabela's would be the priority, since they likely buy more ammo than all US law enforcement combined.
I haven't talked to my local department, but some are feeling the squeeze:
http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/public-safety-agencies-facing-ammo-shortage/nTqgG/
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CMP does have Aquila target .22LR but only for a case of 5000 at $315 plus $25 shipping. Anybody want to split a case? I'd like to try a few hundred before I commit to that much. I'll cover shipping to my house and turn it over for cost plus shipping to your house. Long as it's all legal and proper like to do so.
oops, wrong thread. :facepalm:
I'll leave it here anyways.
I'm in too, for 1K. PM'd.
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Anyone have an idea how much an unissued, barely shot Yugo SKS or a Service grade M1 Garand (H&R) might bring on the open market right now?
I'm almost considering selling a few pieces if the prices are inflated enough...
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I just got the monthly CMP email. They are selling service grade M1s for $625, some "collector grade" service grades that I haven't seen before for $950, and their CMP rebuilds for $995.
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I just got the monthly CMP email. They are selling service grade M1s for $625, some "collector grade" service grades that I haven't seen before for $950, and their CMP rebuilds for $995.
Well that's still $200 more than I paid for it, street prices usually are much higher.
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Garands typically sell for 50% more than CMP prices in normal times. Today... twice CMP prices?
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Talked to my 71YO mom last night. Next time we travel there or she travels here, I will get her spun up and help her buy a pistol and shotgun.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEHMZZdSjCg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEHMZZdSjCg)
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Was able to place an order for 3x19rd mags with Springfield Armory for $34 each. Of course, they did say that it could take 6-8 weeks to get them.
Everywhere that had them cheaper (one place advertised $27 each) was out of stock, most of them said no backorders permitted.
I'll let you know when (if?) they come in.
And here we are, about 3 weeks after placing the order, and my pistol mags are in. No 9mm ammo on hand, no pistol, but I've got three normal-capacity mags for that entry-grade-3-gun-competition pistol I don't have. It's a start.
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Lined from Preacherman's blog (The Great Ammo Drought of 2013 (http://bayourenaissanceman.blogspot.com/2013/02/the-great-ammo-drought-of-2013.html)):
UPDATE: Status of Gun Industry (http://directorblue.blogspot.com/2013/01/update-status-of-gun-industry.html)
Attention F.B. fans: to follow will be several IMPORTANT Info updates about the status of the gun industry currently, followed by an INVENTORY UPDATE: We traveled to Texas for Industry meetings concerning the shortages, here's what we were told.
Smith & Wesson-is running at Full capacity making 300+ guns/day-mainly M&P pistols. They are unable to produce any more guns to help with the shortages.
RUGER: Plans to increase from 75% to 100% in the next 90 days.
FNH: Moving from 50% production to 75% by Feb 1st and 100% by March 1. Remington-Maxed out!
Armalite: Maxed out.
DPMS: Can't get enough parts to produce any more product.
COLT: Production runs increasing weekly...bottle necked by Bolt carrier's.
LWRC:Making only black guns, running at full capacity...can't get enough gun quality steel to make barrels.
Springfield Armory: Only company who can meet demand but are running 30-45 days behind.
AMMO: Every caliber is now Allocated! We are looking at a nation wide shortage of all calibers over the next 9 months. All plants are producing as much ammo as possible w/ of 1 BILLION rounds produced weekly. Most is military followed by L.E. and civilians are third in line.
MAGPUL is behind 1 MILLION mags, do not expect any large quantities of magpul anytime soon.
RELOADERS... ALL Remington, Winchester, CCI & Federal primers are going to ammo FIRST. There are no extra's for reloading purposes... it could be 6-9 months before things get caught up. Sorry for the bleak news, but now we know what to expect in the coming months. Stay tuned, we'll keep you posted...
Related commentary from Bob Owens:
They didn’t know when they’d be getting anything back in stock, from magazines to rifles to pistols. Manufacturers were running full-bore, but couldn’t come close to keeping up with market demand. It wasn’t just the AR-15s, the AK-pattern rifles, the M1As, and the FALs that were sold out. It really hit me when I realized that the World War-era M1 Garands, M1 carbines, and Enfield .303s were gone, along with every last shell. Ubiquitous Mosin-Nagants—of which every gun store always seems to have 10-20—were gone. So was their ammo. Only a dust free space marked their passing. I’ve never seen anything like it.
Every weapon of military utility designed within the past 100+ years was gone. This isn’t a society stocking up on certain guns because they fear they may be banned. This is a society preparing for war.
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AMMO: Every caliber is now Allocated! We are looking at a nation wide shortage of all calibers over the next 9 months. All plants are producing as much ammo as possible w/ of 1 BILLION rounds produced weekly. Most is military followed by L.E. and civilians are third in line.
:mad:
This will be remembered.
Instead of taking the powder and shot from the colonial powder house, they're just intercepting it by means of "just in time" inventory and military/industrial complex favoritism.
I REALLY would like to start an ammunition company right now. And refuse orders for MIL/LEO, flat-out.
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:mad:
This will be remembered.
Instead of taking the powder and shot from the colonial powder house, they're just intercepting it by means of "just in time" inventory and military/industrial complex favoritism.
I REALLY would like to start an ammunition company right now. And refuse orders for MIL/LEO, flat-out.
Yes because posted on the internet makes it truth.
Military ammo is sourced from Lake City so it really doesnt have much of an effect on civilian production. Fed and most LE ammo is sourced through contracts where the supplier who bids and wins must supply that ammo as outlined in the contract regardless of an unusual market...and at the price agreed upon in the contract.
But hell that automatically means all ammo is going straight to all the JBTs!!!!!!
Jesus Christ...look the ammo is being produced and snapped up as soon as it is by your fellow citizens.
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I REALLY would like to start an ammunition company right now. And refuse orders for MIL/LEO, flat-out.
Small scale boutique production wouldn't take that much. But, you'd be getting primers, powder, bullets and brass from where?
I'm even seeing chit chat various places about hand refurbishing expended primers.
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RELOADERS... ALL Remington, Winchester, CCI & Federal primers are going to ammo FIRST. There are no extra's for reloading purposes... it could be 6-9 months before things get caught up. Sorry for the bleak news, but now we know what to expect in the coming months. Stay tuned, we'll keep you posted...
Holy crap. If accurate, that will be the longest lasting shortage I can remember. I'll have to reevaluate in three or so months and see if I need to adjust my pistol shooting to make my supplies last.
EDIT: I actually can't remember when there ever WAS a primer shortage. I think there's been a few times I can remember a 2-3 week backorder on some types, but never a months long shortage.
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I expect I'll be shooting a lot more .22 than normal.
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I expect I'll be shooting a lot more .22 than normal.
......if you can find any.....
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Looks like I picked the right year to curtail my shooting.
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Yes because posted on the internet makes it truth.
Military ammo is sourced from Lake City so it really doesnt have much of an effect on civilian production. Fed and most LE ammo is sourced through contracts where the supplier who bids and wins must supply that ammo as outlined in the contract regardless of an unusual market...and at the price agreed upon in the contract.
But hell that automatically means all ammo is going straight to all the JBTs!!!!!!
Jesus Christ...look the ammo is being produced and snapped up as soon as it is by your fellow citizens.
Lake City = ATK/Federal/CCI.
All Federal/CCI primers will be going to Lake City rather than the civvie market.
Winchester has a "WCC" headstamp that is a NATO headstamp, not quite as popular as LC but it's out there. I don't know if they have .mil contracts right now or not, but if so, say goodbye to Winchester primers.
I don't know much about Remington. I've never used their primers but they seem 3rd or 4th man down on the totem pole. Far lower market share than CCI and Winchester.
Just FYI, the Lake City plant makes the XM193 55gr load that Federal sells umpteen million rounds of to civvies for their AR's. They just change the headstamp die in the brass machine so it doesn't say "LC 13" or whatever the year is, to say "FEDERAL."
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Yes because posted on the internet makes it truth.
Military ammo is sourced from Lake City so it really doesnt have much of an effect on civilian production. Fed and most LE ammo is sourced through contracts where the supplier who bids and wins must supply that ammo as outlined in the contract regardless of an unusual market...and at the price agreed upon in the contract.
But hell that automatically means all ammo is going straight to all the JBTs!!!!!!
Jesus Christ...look the ammo is being produced and snapped up as soon as it is by your fellow citizens.
I've been posting the same thing on other Facebook threads in response to this blurb about the ammo and gun mfg's status.
It's called a CONTRACT... CON - TRACT... Lawyers and stuff. =)
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Lake City = ATK/Federal/CCI.
All Federal/CCI primers will be going to Lake City rather than the civvie market.
Winchester has a "WCC" headstamp that is a NATO headstamp, not quite as popular as LC but it's out there. I don't know if they have .mil contracts right now or not, but if so, say goodbye to Winchester primers.
I don't know much about Remington. I've never used their primers but they seem 3rd or 4th man down on the totem pole. Far lower market share than CCI and Winchester.
Just FYI, the Lake City plant makes the XM193 55gr load that Federal sells umpteen million rounds of to civvies for their AR's. They just change the headstamp die in the brass machine so it doesn't say "LC 13" or whatever the year is, to say "FEDERAL."
Yes I know exactly who Lake City is run by. And the military nor the feds are suddenly consuming more than normal levels either.
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I guess I'll have to write a post about production planning. Just because the demand suddenly spikes, doesn't mean that they are curtailing civilian sales it means that they had forecast their ammo production for the year. So they order things like brass for cases, and they specify that they want certain quantities delivered at certain times, same with the chemicals used in primers. You really don't want a lot of that sitting around. A year's worth would be a huge hazard/liability. You order it so that smaller quantities arrive shortly before needed. Same with powder and bullets. All that stuff sitting in a warehouse is $$$. Money that you can't use otherwise because it's lying on a shelf or on a pallet.
And then there are the machines. You can only produce as fast as the slowest machine (the bottleneck) on the line. You can try to speed up, but often that results in QC problems. Not to mention downtime for repairs. When I worked in the paint can industry we could produce X cans in hour with an average of 2 minutes of maintenance per hour needed for the machines. If we tried to speed them up to x+10%, then maintenance required increased to 12 minutes per hour. It was harder on the machines to go faster, and QC sucked as we created more problems.
Also change-overs. Going from one "style" of can to another averaged about 2 hours of down time as we re-calibrated the welders, seamers, and other machines. Change sizes (from pint to half-pint, quart to pint or gallon to tall gallons) required anywhere from a few hours to several days to complete. We use to only run half-pint cans once a year for 3 weeks simply because it generally took 2-4 (24 hour)days to do the line change-over, each time. So we'd lose on average a weeks worth+ (we ran 24/6) of production off one line. OUCH!!!! Again, a machine not running was a machine not making money, but in the meantime we're paying a small army of mechanics to fiddle with the machines to get them to run the new size of cans.
That's what they are up against. Years of data of sales trends (anyone remember what happened with .380 a couple of years ago, when something like 6 new .380 pistols came out and suddenly no one could find .380 ammo?) is used to determine purchasing of raw materials and stocking levels. So product gets ordered to be delivered on a schedule, production schedules are set to maximize the use of the machines and limit downtime.
Lake City and other defense contractors have been slowly reducing their operations due to the end of the war in Iraq and the winding down of Afghanistan. No one saw the panic coming. So they are setup to produce for what contracts they have, first and foremost. Trust me Uncle Sugar gets real pissy when you fail to deliver on his contracts as agreed. (Our Homerville, GA plant made the Ammo cans for Lake City. And whenever there was a problem there with Ammo Can production, people and machines got re-allocated to ensure we met those delivery targets, our other customers got de-prioritized.)
So no it's not some wild conspiracy, or they are not out to stop you from buying ammo. It's that there is a panic on. Contracts get honored first and they are doing what they can to meet the demand that suddenly and dramatically increased. It's simply that stuff is flying off the shelves as soon as they can make it and ship it.
;/ ;/ ;/
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I take some of this info with a big grain of salt.
Why?
Because reloading powder and powder used for factory ammo are two different beasts.
You and I as reloaders buy what's called "canister" powder. It's formulated to stay exceptionally consistent from lot-to-lot. Your can of IMR4895 you bought to keep your M1 Garand running?
That's canister powder.
The powder that RemFedChester uses to make their ammo? That's "bulk" powder, and is allowed to have some variation - the manufacturers simply vary the loading to provide consistent pressures and velocities as lots of bulk powder come out of the mills.
That's not saying bulk powder cannot be tested and packaged as canister. And it certainly doesn't rule out nitrocotton/nitrocellulose itself being in short supply for either powder stream.
But it doesn't sound correct to say that reloading powder is being diverted to ammo manufacture. =|
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I guess I'll have to write a post about production planning....
...Contracts get honored first and they are doing what they can to meet the demand that suddenly and dramatically increased. It's simply that stuff is flying off the shelves as soon as they can make it and ship it.
;/ ;/ ;/
This times 1000x.
And even before the '08 and the current '12/'13 panics, not even related to ammo, I've been trying in vain to explain stuff like this when people whine on other forums (Even KTOG) or Facebook about Keltec products that have been unobtanium like the RFB, the PMR30 and the KSG.
Tooling, employment, floor space, CNC machines, it all takes time to set up, and beyond that, expanding to meet the demand they have NOW can ruin the company financially in the future when the demand is met and falls back.
Even if one is to assume for the sake of argument that gearing up for the current level of ammo demand for this year was logistically possible, paying off the financing for such expansion for 10, or 20 years to cover a one year spike in demand rarely pays off unless your margins are into several hundred percent.
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I take some of this info with a big grain of salt.
Why?
Because reloading powder and powder used for factory ammo are two different beasts.
I didn't see any mention of powder specifically in that post. The bottleneck I saw referenced was primers. Are production primers different than reloading primers?
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Scout and AJ thats what Ive been trying to tell people but your average person simply refuses to believe it or think logically. But no, instead the manufacturers must be holding down production so they can charge more or the feds are buying it all up or the feds are leaning on the manufacturers to not ramp up production...otherwise they can just flip a switch and double production!
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Lined from Preacherman's blog (The Great Ammo Drought of 2013 (http://bayourenaissanceman.blogspot.com/2013/02/the-great-ammo-drought-of-2013.html)):
UPDATE: Status of Gun Industry (http://directorblue.blogspot.com/2013/01/update-status-of-gun-industry.html)
Attention F.B. fans: to follow will be several IMPORTANT Info updates about the status of the gun industry currently, followed by an INVENTORY UPDATE: We traveled to Texas for Industry meetings concerning the shortages, here's what we were told.
....
AMMO: Every caliber is now Allocated! We are looking at a nation wide shortage of all calibers over the next 9 months. All plants are producing as much ammo as possible w/ of 1 BILLION rounds produced weekly. Most is military followed by L.E. and civilians are third in line.
MAGPUL is behind 1 MILLION mags, do not expect any large quantities of magpul anytime soon.
RELOADERS... ALL Remington, Winchester, CCI & Federal primers are going to ammo FIRST. There are no extra's for reloading purposes... it could be 6-9 months before things get caught up. Sorry for the bleak news, but now we know what to expect in the coming months. Stay tuned, we'll keep you posted....
Does anyone know the situation on imported ammo or components? Their products are commanding higher prices here, so won't they be shipping more our way?
Tooling, employment, floor space, CNC machines, it all takes time to set up, and beyond that, expanding to meet the demand they have NOW can ruin the company financially in the future when the demand is met and falls back.
Even if one is to assume for the sake of argument that gearing up for the current level of ammo demand for this year was logistically possible, paying off the financing for such expansion for 10, or 20 years to cover a one year spike in demand rarely pays off unless your margins are into several hundred percent.
If ammo (or at least the most desirable ammo) remains unobtainable for 9 months, won't that make an indelible impression in the mind of gun owners? Won't demand be higher for the next 10 or 20 years (or more?), as private stockpiles grow larger and more common? Could that justify at least some "gearing up"? Or even new companies making ammo or components?
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So are we calling the Preacher/Owens blurb plausible or busted? =D
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On the 6-9 months, I read that as for primers only, and only because they are being prioritized for production ammo. It would stand to reason (given that the panic ammo buying slows down), that production ammo will be readily available again well before primers for reloading are.
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If ammo (or at least the most desirable ammo) remains unobtainable for 9 months, won't that make an indelible impression in the mind of gun owners? Won't demand be higher for the next 10 or 20 years (or more?), as private stockpiles grow larger and more common? Could that justify at least some "gearing up"? Or even new companies making ammo or components?
You're right, that is a factor, however it's still a finite factor.
- Eventually, everyone would reach their comfort level for ammo on hand, and the run will end.
- Such decisions are just as emotionally based as logically based. When the hoarding/stockpiling by the consumers ends will matter as much on perception, news, politics, as it does on the actual ammo availability if not more, and the run on ammo will end.
- Then there's the economic ability of people to stockpile. Such decisions for most people aren't simply made by how much they want, but how much they can afford. And the stockpiling also ends that way too, and the run will end.
So it's kind of a complex issue with multiple factors affecting when the ammo run will burn itself out. And in general, the more factors that are acting to end it, the sooner it will happen.
And the other issue is that in the face of that, the one single way a manufacturer could make a dent in the above factors is cost. They'd have to significantly undercut the competition, so that the price to the end-user through all the distribution channel markups was still so significant it could affect all of those above decision factors.
Unfortunately, the tooling and startup costs to control ammo production from end-to-end, stamping brass/steel, producing primer cups, bullets, double-base nitro powders, all the hazmat issues dealing with lead styphnate or similar lead-based explosives, or the "green" diazodinitrophenol primer compounds, are all quite high. Much of the ammo manufacture as noted really leverages just a few makers of these components and just assemble them. The entry barriers were such that many of these plants and machines date back to WWII when things were so dire that obviously ANY "entry barriers" or costs were worth it.
So in essence it's a huge gamble that you could amortize these massive costs over the next 20 years, when the economy could wipe out discretionary shooter spending, legislation could wipe out the private market, or some unforeseen shooting product that replaces metallic cartridges could all wipe out your investment, and your ability to pay back the financing. Assuming some bank or venture capital group would look at your business plan and the uncertainties and not laugh you out of the loan office.
And the people who have enough cash on hand to tool up an entire ammo plant without any loans or financing, they throw their money at things which are much more lucrative and have better understood risk/reward ratios.
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I see your point.
Just to be clear, though, I wasn't talking about a run. I think the demand for ammo will simply be higher for the next few decades. People who previously did not keep any ammo set aside will start doing so. People who already stockpiled, will increase their usual level. People who used to buy ammo before they went shooting will now buy ammo the day after, and possibly shoot more often, since the ammo is already on hand. And aren't we already seeing more new shooters, and the same increase in the popularity of shooting that followed previous gun control efforts?
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Eh...
I definitely agree that whatever portion of the panic buy that's new shooters is a good thing.
However, I think like many hobbies only a certain percentage of them will actually wind up shooting on a regular basis, or on a high volume basis. Even of all of us here who are all presumably shooters or gun owners, only a portion of us, maybe a dozen of us, are shooting so much they're going through cases of rounds per year, either purchased or reloaded.
And if people were really going to "learn their lesson" this time and start stockpiling, I kind of think they'd have done so in the '08 panic, the 9/11 panic, the Y2k panic, the wind-up to the '94 AWB...
Human nature isn't going to change. Most people will be reactionary.
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Eh...
I definitely agree that whatever portion of the panic buy that's new shooters is a good thing.
However, I think like many hobbies only a certain percentage of them will actually wind up shooting on a regular basis, or on a high volume basis. Even of all of us here who are all presumably shooters or gun owners, only a portion of us, maybe a dozen of us, are shooting so much they're going through cases of rounds per year, either purchased or reloaded.
And if people were really going to "learn their lesson" this time and start stockpiling, I kind of think they'd have done so in the '08 panic, the 9/11 panic, the Y2k panic, the wind-up to the '94 AWB...
Human nature isn't going to change. Most people will be reactionary.
Dude, that's more frequently than every 5 years. 94, 99, 01, 04 (AWB sunset and the bells of freedom, magpul rises!), 08, 13.
Fisty, there's an ammo shortage and crisis every 5 years. Practically guaranteed. Sounds ripe for a new ammo company to come out and start making tractor-trailers full of .223 and 9mm, and only those calibers. They'll be more popular than Obama's Stash in Chicago.
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I expect I'll be shooting a lot more .22 than normal.
......if you can find any.....
I have 8 or 9K of .22LR. I can afford to blow off a few rounds every now and then.
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A business plan with a 10-20 year ROI is DOA. 5-6yrs, max.
At least that is the environment in this corporation. Maybe these smaller industries are more comfortable with thinner margins and longer returns. If I wrote up an engineering/business proposal with a 20yr ROI, my supervisors would literally laugh at it.
A 5yr return is marginally acceptable, and better have fringe benefits (e.g. trying out some state of the art tech, reduces some other product's cost, promotes the brand, etc).
A 3yr business plan would catch a lot of interest and if successful, gain promotions.
Some people, in my recent experience, have successfully implemented 1yr ROI plans.
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Type 6 FFLs for making ammunition are also a royal pain in the posterior. Then you get into the state and local requirements for business and fire safety...
I know from researching the prospect myself - I make batches of damned scarce 7.62x45 VZ-52 and 6.5x53R Dutch Mannlicher brass, and handload it into ammo that often disappears to friends needing to feed their orphaned rifles. I wanted to just sell the brass, and eventually completed rounds, but discovered I needed a Type 6 FFL just for that!
You commit to getting your Type 6 FFL approved, local and state sign-off, insurance, tooling, find a supplier of components (good luck with that now...), it won't be a quick thing at all.
You're in it for the long haul, and not just to amortize the money and ass-pain you went through just to get up and running.
The best example I can give of somebody's reloading hobby going professional is Space Coast Bullets in Melbourne, FL. They're about as small a store as one can physically have, and still maintain a decent market presence. Their bread and butter is casting bullets for handloaders, and using a portion of those cast bullets loaded into once-fired brass. They dabbled in automating big Dillon progressive presses, until they discovered they don't lend themselves to being motor-driven without a lot of TLC. So their learning curve got more expensive as they bought purpose-made loading equipment.
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Eh...
I definitely agree that whatever portion of the panic buy that's new shooters is a good thing.
However, I think like many hobbies only a certain percentage of them will actually wind up shooting on a regular basis, or on a high volume basis. Even of all of us here who are all presumably shooters or gun owners, only a portion of us, maybe a dozen of us, are shooting so much they're going through cases of rounds per year, either purchased or reloaded.
And if people were really going to "learn their lesson" this time and start stockpiling, I kind of think they'd have done so in the '08 panic, the 9/11 panic, the Y2k panic, the wind-up to the '94 AWB...
Human nature isn't going to change. Most people will be reactionary.
Regarding the ammo panic every few years, isn't this ammo crunch much more severe than we've seen? I seem to recall a lot of people being shocked at the dearth of. 22 LR, among other things.
Also, I'm just suggesting that a lot of people will buy more ammo, and probably shoot more often. It won't take every gun owner shooting a case of ammo every year to increase the demand from what it was before Sandy Hook.
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Just to tease this out a bit more:
If this situation goes on much longer, does anyone expect to hear about soldiers or police selling .gov ammo supplies? They could sell it to honest gun owners by claiming it was their own hoard, but they needed money.
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Just to tease this out a bit more:
If this situation goes on much longer, does anyone expect to hear about soldiers or police selling .gov ammo supplies? They could sell it to honest gun owners by claiming it was their own hoard, but they needed money.
That would be nice, but I don't hear about police selling off excess ammo. I have seen dealers selling police trade ins, but never ammo.
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Just to tease this out a bit more:
If this situation goes on much longer, does anyone expect to hear about soldiers or police selling .gov ammo supplies? They could sell it to honest gun owners by claiming it was their own hoard, but they needed money.
I would LMFAO if some of those same 1.4 billion DHS rounds somehow got sold on the black/grey market by fed agents stealing from government supplies. That would just be absolutely hilarious.
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I would LMFAO if some of those same 1.4 billion DHS rounds somehow got sold on the black/grey market by fed agents stealing from government supplies. That would just be absolutely hilarious.
Wait all the hullabaloo about the DHS buying ammo is for about ~1.4B rounds?
According to previous in the thread "All plants are producing as much ammo as possible w/ of 1 BILLION rounds produced weekly."
So all they got is 2 weeks worth of production?
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That would be nice, but I don't hear about police selling off excess ammo. I have seen dealers selling police trade ins, but never ammo.
I'm talking about pilfered ammo.
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Wait all the hullabaloo about the DHS buying ammo is for about ~1.4B rounds?
According to previous in the thread
So all they got is 2 weeks worth of production?
A) that would be a lot.
B) that billion per week is probably all types of ammo, not all .40 hollow-point, which is what DHS is said to be hoarding. So a lot more than 2 weeks, one would imagine.
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Wait all the hullabaloo about the DHS buying ammo is for about ~1.4B rounds?
According to previous in the thread
So all they got is 2 weeks worth of production?
IIRC, it comes out to about 20,000 rounds per DHS employee. That includes DHS janitors, IT nerds, HR clerks, TSA junkgrabbers and accountants. I don't know what ratio of DHS employees are sworn/badged versus not.
2 weeks of the nation's full ammo production capability is a hell of a lot of ammo.
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IIRC, it comes out to about 20,000 rounds per DHS employee. That includes DHS janitors, IT nerds, HR clerks, TSA junkgrabbers and accountants. I don't know what ratio of DHS employees are sworn/badged versus not.
I thought DHS was brokering a multi-agency ammo deal to get better pricing. Did I make that up or did I read it somewhere?
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I thought DHS was brokering a multi-agency ammo deal to get better pricing. Did I make that up or did I read it somewhere?
Pfft. Don't let common sense get in the way of a good conspiracy.
(although, given the way this administration thinks, buying up ammo supplies to get it "off the streets" wouldn't surprise me.....cash for boolits, anyone?) [tinfoil]
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I thought DHS was brokering a multi-agency ammo deal to get better pricing. Did I make that up or did I read it somewhere?
Something like that.
And I've seen multiple people break down the round count by all the various sworn armed fed.gov types that went through FLETC. When you take buying in bulk for the discount, the 2k rounds per year or whatever for their training/refreshers/qualifications, and then add some more onto the top of your usual .gov "use it or lose it" baseline budgeting style, it's not terribly outrageous.
Also, as noted, that much .40 S&W ammo... well it's still only pistol ammo.
If they were buying up that much 5.56, or perhaps double that amount, I'd be much more willing to get all [tinfoil] about it. Otherwise, to me it's "meh" and more about the typical endless waste/expansion of .gov than it is some imminent sign of JBT-ery on the horizon.
For all I know, it might be doing the shooting community some good. If it weren't for these big runs of .40 ammo, the usual refocusing on 9mm and .223/5.56 during the ammo crunch might mean .40 went unobtanium the way .380 did during the '08 panic, because it's the same dies and lines as 9mm and they're just shortened down by 1.5mm or whatever... The .40 machines might have been more economically attractive to take offline, or not staff, or draw brass for or whatever if the .gov hadn't been boosting the round's economy of scale.
Just to tease this out a bit more:
If this situation goes on much longer, does anyone expect to hear about soldiers or police selling .gov ammo supplies? They could sell it to honest gun owners by claiming it was their own hoard, but they needed money.
I see some potential for this. The current or ex-.mil guys will have to chime in, but it seems to me that other than by lot no. ammo isn't all that traceable, and I know that for some of the Federal and Winchester products we do get some of the exact same packaging as the .mil does too.
And there's those range situations where the unit is encouraged to "burn it up" otherwise they have to hump it back to base, or do more accounting for the ammo. Although I'm not sure how much they have to account for spent brass. I'd guess that counting spent brass is not done as carefully as live rounds, and there's circumstances where it's not practical at all. I'd guess that's the case for situations like training in the field etc.
It seems stolen .mil ammo is almost a given, maybe always going on, seeing as how many "Aimpoint/ACOG stings" I see going on in various gun boards almost constantly. Something not SN'ed and not as traceable albeit not as pricey or compact, would be at least equally appealing. I'm sure AR/M4 mags also leave the .mil's stocks on a regular basis, since they're already considered semi-disposable.
From fed.gov agents? Not so much. I could see a box of ammo here or there as a favor to a family member or a friend in a slightly extended version of stealing pens/paperclips from the supply closet, but on a larger case-lot scale, unlikely.
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Otherwise, to me it's "meh" and more about the typical endless waste/expansion of .gov than it is some imminent sign of JBT-ery on the horizon.
To judge incipient JBTery, you'd want to be looking at other things. Personnel -- hires, moves. Is anyone training an unusual number of prison guards? Are they buying supplies, moving supplies? Vehicles and uniforms? More gun purchases to go with the ammo purchases? (Uhhh, well, uhhh, seems we did just have a DHS purchase of "personal defense rifles".)
The kinds of information we don't have easy access to, would tell the tale.
signs of a new run on gun purchases
Had a heck of a time today, finding a vendor who had (at least claimed to have) as pedestrian and obscure an item as 4 hole Lee turrets in stock.
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Ouch!
That doesn't bode well for my plan to secure more Lyman bullet moulds... =|
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Natchezz Shooter Supply actually claimed to have them on hand, and seemed to list a lot of what I looked at as on hand. But, ship in at least two weeks, "expect to receive 2/25". (OK, as I have not more bullets until it's warm enough to cast.)
Hopefully they're not playing weird games.
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Midway had an expected date of yesterday to get CCI mini-mags back in stock. Over the day it changed to overdue. Today it changed to February 2014 =|
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Midway had an expected date of yesterday to get CCI mini-mags back in stock. Over the day it changed to overdue. Today it changed to February 2014 =|
*expletive deleted*ck!
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Midway had an expected date of yesterday to get CCI mini-mags back in stock. Over the day it changed to overdue. Today it changed to February 2014 =|
Yeah, this is why I foresee ammo stockpiling being hugely popular for the next few decades. People will remember a drought like this. Besides, "prepping" has become a lot more mainstream, anyway. Ammo's just another side of that.
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Oh boy.
http://alamoammo.com/rifle-ammo/22-long-rifle/22-lr-federal-champion-36gr-cphp-525ct-m-id-aa-22-f-7169-upc-29465057169
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Midway had an expected date of yesterday to get CCI mini-mags back in stock. Over the day it changed to overdue. Today it changed to February 2014 =|
What size? 100 pack and 500 pack look to be in Mid-April. The 5000 pack is 2014.
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Oh boy.
http://alamoammo.com/rifle-ammo/22-long-rifle/22-lr-federal-champion-36gr-cphp-525ct-m-id-aa-22-f-7169-upc-29465057169
Link is borked for me.
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Oh boy.
http://alamoammo.com/rifle-ammo/22-long-rifle/22-lr-federal-champion-36gr-cphp-525ct-m-id-aa-22-f-7169-upc-29465057169
47.6 cents per round. No thank you.
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47.6 cents per round. No thank you.
Yeah, in the last 12 months I've bought M855 for cheaper.
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Yeah, this is why I foresee ammo stockpiling being hugely popular for the next few decades. People will remember a drought like this. Besides, "prepping" has become a lot more mainstream, anyway. Ammo's just another side of that.
I suspect it'll take at least three years for us to build stocks back to normal level across the board. Shortages will take a year to handle, hoarding will take a year to sort out, and "restocking the shelves" will take another year. With heavy overlap in all directions. I suspect widely available but slightly elevated prices as folks like us here stock up.
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What size? 100 pack and 500 pack look to be in Mid-April. The 5000 pack is 2014.
I only looked at the 5K. Good to know!
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47.6 cents per round. No thank you.
Oh! Oh! I could make a killing.
No, I think not.
Has stuff (other than gun related stuff) just taken a jump in prices? I'm seeing some weird pricing on computer stuff at our distributor, and in Dell's reseller config page.
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I just went by Farm & Fleet (Blain's, not Mill's and not Fleet Farm).
Local rumor is correct, all that's left in metallic cartridges was a couple boxes of some hunting round, and some boxes of dollar per round social purposes .40. No .22. No nothing. Lots of various shotgun shells.
So, the stories I hear about F&F being out are true
A guy I chatted with said a local gunshop place was selling steel cased Russian .223 for $20, for a 20 round box.
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Huh, I have a few thousand rounds of cheap bulk pack .22. I wonder if I could gun broker it for enough to get a RIA 1911. :)
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Huh, I have a few thousand rounds of cheap bulk pack .22. I wonder if I could gun broker it for enough to get a RIA 1911. :)
If I didn't already open my box of 500, and didn't live in CA, I would seriously consider turning a tidy profit on it on Ebay or somewhere. I've got enough other ammo and components to shoot that I wouldn't miss shooting the .22 at all before .22 ammo becomes available again at normal prices.
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Don't know if you could get much for it on eBay, since they won't let you sell evil live ammo there after the VA Tech shootings. ;)
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Oh boy.
http://alamoammo.com/rifle-ammo/22-long-rifle/22-lr-federal-champion-36gr-cphp-525ct-m-id-aa-22-f-7169-upc-29465057169
And sold out too it looks like
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Don't know if you could get much for it on eBay, since they won't let you sell evil live ammo there after the VA Tech shootings. ;)
Alright, AmmoB ay then. :P :laugh:
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I have a personal axe to grind with eBay, hence my throwing that out there, Ben.
I used to come home with oodles of once-fired brass every weekend when I worked as a range officer.
I'd tumble it, sort it, and sell it for a tidy sum on eBay - until they decreed I was what was wrong with their vision of (for?) America.
Bastages. :mad:
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I just went by Farm & Fleet (Blain's, not Mill's and not Fleet Farm).
Local rumor is correct, all that's left in metallic cartridges was a couple boxes of some hunting round, and some boxes of dollar per round social purposes .40. No .22. No nothing. Lots of various shotgun shells.
Walmart, later the same day, same situation.
.22-250, a couple boxes each of .380 and .22 Short, a box of .17 rimfire. Shotgun stuff. Empty shelves otherwise.
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My LGS was actually pretty well stocked with ammo, he had at least a few boxes of pretty much everything but .22rf. He even had 2 ARs (one was a consignment).
He even had 2 Crickett .22 rf youth rifles. He only had one when the grandson and I left =D
Of course by the time we get home its freaking raining.
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It quit raining for a bit.
One more consumer of ammo added to the masses.
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi23.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb398%2FFLHRI-OK%2F005-3.jpg&hash=9017966cc7cd2a14a525e09092d2619e99112b12)
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It quit raining for a bit.
One more consumer of ammo added to the masses.
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi23.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb398%2FFLHRI-OK%2F005-3.jpg&hash=9017966cc7cd2a14a525e09092d2619e99112b12)
That'll make ya smile, I don't care who ya are!
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Cross posted from elsewhere - Natchez Shooting Supply has at least some .223/5.56mm rounds in - http://www.natchezss.com/product.cfm?contentID=productDetail&prodID=FAXM193IC, a 500-round box of XM193 (55gr) for $325 (plus about $20 shipping to VA). More might be available, but I wouldn't swear to it. 1 a day per customer. I've got an order in for mine - at least I can see how my AR shoots, or I will be able to before too much longer.
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Saturday I stopped at a gun shop in Lebanon, TN (I had to drive there for other reasons and noticed the place while passing through). They had EBR's of various sort in stock, but holy crap the prices! Used WASR's on consignment for $1K, to give you an idea. They did have AR mags (Magpul and otherwise) for non-stupid prices, but ammo was scarce just like everywhere else.
I don't want to buy any more guns. Most of my itches are scratched. If anything I'm probably going to sell one soon, but dammit I'd like to be able to buy some 9mm, .22lr and .223 without having to take out a mortgage. :facepalm:
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Stopped at two locations in Lebanon, OR today (Lebanon, OR was originally settled by folks from Lebanon, TN, btw), a local Bi-Mart and Wally World. Only uncommon or underutilized calibers available. Some .17 HMR and .410 shot shells, expensive .243 and 30.06. Small amounts of 12 ga and 20 ga. Not a drop of .22 or larger that is normally in demand.
One guy buying a bolt rifle at Wally World.
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Stopped by a small gun shop here yesterday. They had gotten in several AR's they ordered the week before the school shooting from Stag. They said Stag is no longer taking orders for 2013. They said they had a Sig 556 also, but sold it within minutes of opening. They did have a Yugo looking AK pistol for $875. I think J&G sales has the same one for about $800.
From what I have heard, the local stores are still getting regular shipments of ammo, but it sells as soon as it hits the shelf. WalMart has per person limits, but everyone calls the people they know and it still disappears fast. I've heard Academy is still getting AR's also and selling at regular prices, but they sell them as soon as they get them.
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From what I have heard, the local stores are still getting regular shipments of ammo, but it sells as soon as it hits the shelf. WalMart has per person limits, but everyone calls the people they know and it still disappears fast
No it sells BEFORE it hits the shelves.
Been hitting up the stores and WalMart every day. Walked into WalMart the other night and went straight back to the gun counter (at our WM about 9PM or so is a good time to check because the consumer goods trailer(s) have usually just been unloaded and sorted by about that time) and they had a tiny bit of .22LR 100rd boxes of Remington Golden Bullets so I was able to cajole the sporting goods cashier to go back and fetch the box and it was gone RIGHT THERE. Three boxes to me, three boxes to the guy beside me, and three boxes to the guy ahead of me and three boxes to one of the guy's wife who was shopping with him.
It never hit the shelf, just straight out of the shipping carton and into our hands.
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My XM193 ordered from Natchez showed up yesterday. Was supposed to be 'adult signature required', but UPS left it at the door of my empty house - not complaining, just noting. So my AR is finally complete and ready to shoot. For a short while, at least - 500 rounds won't last long, once I have the opportunity to go shooting.
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No relief in sight.
This is the Sun Prairie WalMart's ammo shelf as of last evening. The little sign says customers can only purchase 3 boxes per day.
On the 5th shelf from the bottom, at far right, are plain brown boxes of Olin (Winchester) military grade 12 gauge 00 Buckshot. Price was $4.67 each.
I bought three boxes to feed my 870Mk1, and rotated it to nightstand duty instead of the sidefolder AK.
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmauser98.com%2Fwalmartammo02222013.jpg&hash=5a635726e7a9bd9401a3ee73f6dc6780b87854cf)
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And here's the ammo shelf at Walmart at Decatur and Charleston in Las Vegas as of yesterday.
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi6.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy233%2Fbtgoober%2Fposted%2520pix%2F2013-02-22160152x800.jpg&hash=417862aec35b8a89338a4a5ae68d19b51a70d73f)
Got a few long guns, though.
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi6.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy233%2Fbtgoober%2Fposted%2520pix%2F2013-02-22160126x800.jpg&hash=4bae653c10b56142850a6f2b5e123c1775506173)
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That's pretty much what our Wally World looks like.
Last I was buy looking for ammo, instead of gawking at the empty shelves, they actually had good stock of 7.62x39. Russian, $5.something for 20, not a bad price.
Picked up a pound of Winchester 231 this paycheck. Next time, another 1000 primers, hopefully. Or maybe I'll spring for that pump 12 gauge...
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With the shortage on ammo & guns, I think I'm going to do something I've needed to do for a long time....buy some quality, non-nylon holsters. I need a good CCW rig or two for my XD9sc and good field holsters for my Blackhawk & K-38.
Any recommendations for a lightweight shoulder holster (leather or Kydex) for an XDsc?
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Stopped by the local "Large Hill of the Male Goose" this afternoon. They had one AR (a Colt in .22LR), lots of shotguns and bolt-action rifles. Lots of rifle ammo. .243, .270, 7MM, 300WSSM, and some .30-06. Lots of Shotgun and .40 S&W. 3 boxes of 22Short and all the 17HMR you could carry and then some.
They also appear to have picked the wrong time to get out of re-loading (they used to have 2-3 aisles of both shotgun and metallic, now it's one side of a 20ft aisle mostly Winchester brass and wads, no dies and only one Hornady Lock and Load press.)
While I was there a guy came and in ask "Where's the .22 ammo". Apparently he's been under a rock since December, because the look on his face as the clerk explained to him what's been going on was priceless (Especially the part where he pointed to the giant empty space on the wall rack of guns.)
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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I had a surreal time tonight at a LGS when my son and I were looking at deer rifles for him.
There was an elderly man asking a younger man about what kind of buckshot was good for home defense. The younger guy wasn't sure, I chimed in and told him No 1 is probably the best if you can find it but 00 is pretty much the go to standard.
Then we got into a conversation...
The old man was looking to get whatever he can for home defense while he still can. He said he can't understand why there is no ammo available.
I told him "Obama."
He aid he thought something else was going on a bit more sinister.
The younger man (probably mid 40s I'm guessing) starting talking about Homeland Security and disarmament plans.
The old man started voicing his worries about obamacare.
These guys were pretty worked up.
I had to excuse myself because my son was there and I try to shield him from all of the crap going on in our country as much as I can...
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Oh crap oh crap oh crap.
I ordered a .243 rifle today for my son.
Local cabelas had lots of .243 brass and bullets last week, I figured I was good to go.
I saw a post on another forum that .243/7mm-08/300WM brass is gone- gone everywhere.
Sure enough, I checked cabelas site and Midway for these along with 270 and 30-06 and other than a few odd and expensive lots of Lapua, its all gone.
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They are starting to grab whatever is left.
If I find "They's" house, I'm going to be pretty well stocked up for a while.
jim
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I was almost wondering if 'they were buying -08 brass to neck up to .308, but .260 rem still seems to be available (for now).
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I saw that Suomi 9mm stick mags are still available. Drums too.
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I got 3 boxes of TulAmmo 9mm at my small-town Wally-World yesterday.....remarkable, considering that I haven't seen any there in 3 months & this WM is at the end of the distribution chain....
Lucky day.....
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I had been considering a new rifle this summer. I don't *need* it for anything in particular, I just have some credit with Cabelas and thought a 308 carbine would be a neat addition to the safe. However, with ammo hard to find and reloading components just as tough, I'm reconsidering. I don't currently shoot anything in 30cal, so I'd need bullets and brass to reload 308. I may need a different or at least more powder.
I'm starting to lean back towards a gun I was considering at the beginning of that thought process, the Ruger 77/44. I already load and cast for 44mag, plus 44mag is still on the shelves in some places. That gun checks several of the boxes I needed/wanted in a new gun (iron sights, carbine length, light/handy). It lacks the power of the 308, but will handle anything I hunt in the Mid Atlantic.
I won't be buying anything before mid Spring or early Summer, so if things improve by then, I may go back to the 308, but I don't see that situation changing anytime soon.
Chris
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Stopped by the local "Large Hill of the Male Goose" this afternoon.
They also appear to have picked the wrong time to get out of re-loading (they used to have 2-3 aisles of both shotgun and metallic, now it's one side of a 20ft aisle mostly Winchester brass and wads, no dies and only one Hornady Lock and Load press.)
That was my impression, last time I was in a GM*. Handloading equipment was dwindling.
While I was there a guy came and in ask "Where's the .22 ammo". Apparently he's been under a rock since December, because the look on his face as the clerk explained to him what's been going on was priceless (Especially the part where he pointed to the giant empty space on the wall rack of guns.)
When I was last in there (late Dec.) there was no giant empty space. Plenty of hunting guns, but not a black rifle or wanna-be in sight.
I had a surreal time tonight at a LGS when my son and I were looking at deer rifles for him.
There was an elderly man asking a younger man about what kind of buckshot was good for home defense. The younger guy wasn't sure, I chimed in and told him No 1 is probably the best if you can find it but 00 is pretty much the go to standard.
Noted.
I went into Wally World to see about buying what I had had my eye on (http://www.walmart.com/ip/H-R-Pardner-Pump-Protector-Shotgun-12ga/19235966). "That one there." "Oooop, this is a 20. Do you have the same thing in 12?" I'm on the list, and nowhere near first on that list, if and when.
I told him "Obama."
He aid he thought something else was going on a bit more sinister.
0. & associates are sinister enough.
----edit to add----
*and it will probably be the last time I'm in one. The superficially polished but cheap and soulless "gun mall" ambiance depresses me. Just like the rest of the east Rockford commercial strip.
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I had been considering a new rifle this summer. I don't *need* it for anything in particular, I just have some credit with Cabelas and thought a 308 carbine would be a neat addition to the safe. However, with ammo hard to find and reloading components just as tough, I'm reconsidering. I don't currently shoot anything in 30cal, so I'd need bullets and brass to reload 308. I may need a different or at least more powder.
I'm starting to lean back towards a gun I was considering at the beginning of that thought process, the Ruger 77/44. I already load and cast for 44mag, plus 44mag is still on the shelves in some places. That gun checks several of the boxes I needed/wanted in a new gun (iron sights, carbine length, light/handy). It lacks the power of the 308, but will handle anything I hunt in the Mid Atlantic.
I won't be buying anything before mid Spring or early Summer, so if things improve by then, I may go back to the 308, but I don't see that situation changing anytime soon.
Chris
I picked up two boxes of 44 mag last weekend. It was about the only "common" ammo on the shelf at bass pro shops. ALL the pistol ammo was cleaned out except 41mag, 357sig, and 500S&W.
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*and it will probably be the last time I'm in one. The superficially polished but cheap and soulless "gun mall" ambiance depresses me. Just like the rest of the east Rockford commercial strip.
Our local store is GM 'Gun World', but yeah I get that sort of feeling there as well. I go there occasionally to look at stuff, but I rarely buy anything.
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Random note, my local FFL has two RRA 16" AR's IN STOCK. Yes, he is asking $1999, but if you want one now, and don't want to wait however long it takes, he's got them.
Just wanted to post it up. PM me and ill send you his contact info (I was there last night picking up my XDS)
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Random note, my local FFL has two RRA 16" AR's IN STOCK. Yes, he is asking $1999, but if you want one now, and don't want to wait however long it takes, he's got them.
Just wanted to post it up. PM me and ill send you his contact info (I was there last night picking up my XDS)
There's also been a lot of anecdotal reports of guns at panic prices being on display, but not moving at gun shows. And handgun supplies/availability seems to be nearly not as bad.
I'm sure Cerro and others are running three shifts on uppers and lowers. Add to that a little hyperbole, chicken little, and media sensationalism, I'm beginning to suspect that the "two or three years of backorders" is really more like 6 months to a year.
The only long term fallout will be the 20% bump in ammo prices. Every time there's a panic, they tend to fall back only about 80-90% then plateau at their new normal. Although some of it is an actual "honest" increase in terms of inflation and metals commodity prices.
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I hit both shops here in town today. Both had thin stock of everything. The better of the two shops looked like it was going out of business it had so little stock on hand compared to regular levels.
Chris
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Random note, my local FFL has two RRA 16" AR's IN STOCK. Yes, he is asking $1999, but if you want one now, and don't want to wait however long it takes, he's got them.
Just wanted to post it up. PM me and ill send you his contact info (I was there last night picking up my XDS)
I hit 2 or 3 different gun shops in Houston last weekend. Just about all had AR15's on display, but at higher prices. $1500 and up. Collector's Firearms had all sorts of semi-auto rifles on display include Uzi rifles and a couple FAL's. I didn't ask for prices, but I am sure they weren't cheap.
For those interested, they had an older semi-auto 7.62X54R rifle on the shelf for $1100. SVT I think, not a dragunov. I considered buying a rifle like that at one point to use the 54R ammo I have, but decided it was too much money.
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the local wally world in Sparks NV only had some 30-06 and 7mm Rem mag.
They have had .40s&w these past few weeks/months but now even that is gone.
I sure hope the solar apocalypse doesn't happen - I think AJ Dual is right, after the panic subsides things will get somewhat back to normal and there will be ammo/guns at garage sales
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Every shop I've been to lately seems to have more in stock now than they did.
I need a few more XD45 mags, a few XD-S mags... BCG... then when prices are a bit more normal, start stocking up on ammo
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Every shop I've been to lately seems to have more in stock now than they did.
I need a few more XD45 mags, a few XD-S mags... BCG... then when prices are a bit more normal, start stocking up on ammo
I need XDS mags as well now...damn gun buying habit.
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Anyone else going to gunshops way more often than usual on the off chance they may have gotten a train car full of ammo in?
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I need XDS mags as well now...damn gun buying habit.
I can help you with that. It is a time proven system...just send all your guns to me and that will help your habit by making you buy more.
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I was pleasantly surprised to find a couple 20-round AK magazines in the mailbox this afternoon.
I ordered them last week from CTD.
I didn't really need any more AK mags, but I figured I'd give them a try just for listing something "in stock".
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A friend of mine just got his first AR a few weeks ago and has had a tough time getting mags and ammo. Igavehim a few of myspare 30rd mags loaded with xm-193. I think that might have made his week. :laugh:
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I can help you with that. It is a time proven system...just send all your guns to me and that will help your habit by making you buy more.
What a great idea! Or you could send me yours, and I won't have to buy any more :)
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What a great idea! Or you could send me yours, and I won't have to buy any more :)
Darn it foiled again. ;)
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I need XDS mags as well now...damn gun buying habit.
Marc
Now that the XD45 is coming back to me, I won't have too much need for the 7 round mags. I would entertain a trade for some full size XD45 mags.
You have an XD45 doncha?
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They are starting to grab whatever is left.
If I find "They's" house, I'm going to be pretty well stocked up for a while.jim
Not too sure where he lives, but I used to chat with him a bit on the old THR. Neat guy (if a little nutty).
http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Man-Legally-Changes-Name-To-They-2692203.php
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A friend of mine just got his first AR a few weeks ago and has had a tough time getting mags and ammo. Igavehim a few of myspare 30rd mags loaded with xm-193. I think that might have made his week. :laugh:
Well no kidding you made his week. That's like giving someone a decent used car or something.
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For XDs Mags, I ordered a couple direct from Springfield Armory over Christmas and got them in a few weeks. At the time, the 7 rd mags were out every where.
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Marc
Now that the XD45 is coming back to me, I won't have too much need for the 7 round mags. I would entertain a trade for some full size XD45 mags.
You have an XD45 doncha?
No XD45, just XDs, XD9 and XDm40
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For XDs Mags, I ordered a couple direct from Springfield Armory over Christmas and got them in a few weeks. At the time, the 7 rd mags were out every where.
Took somewhere between 2-3 weeks for the 19-rd 9mm XDm mags to get to me, following ordering.
Need the pistol now... (and still have to get that Mossberg 590, too).
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FBI NICS February volume is slightly down from last month (Jan). Still at unprecedented levels. It is more typical for January sales to crash from December peak and Feb and Mar to provide a very small bounce to the yearly average before the summer slow down to below year average. Of course, this season was a record breaker, and all around unprecedented in NICS volume.
Jan 2013 (2.5M checks) was only slightly below the Dec 2012 peak (2.8M checks), and again Feb 2013 recedes further to (est 2.3M checks).
I theorize that the only reason why Jan and Feb numbers are down is because of supply chain constraints. There is simply nothing (ar15 style) left for retailers to sell, therefore, the volume appears to be receding, when in fact demand at normal market prices is still unfilled.
Dec 2011 - 1.86M (prev record)
Nov 2012 - 2.00M (prev record)
Dec 2012 - 2.78M (Record)
Jan 2013 - 2.52M
Feb 2013 - 2.34M (estimated)
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For XDs Mags, I ordered a couple direct from Springfield Armory over Christmas and got them in a few weeks. At the time, the 7 rd mags were out every where.
I have two 7 round XD-s mags. Would trade for XD45 mags
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Very nearly 10 million FFL firearms sales, in FOUR MONTHS? :O Not even counting private-party sales, in most of the country?
Wow. Just... wow.
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Very nearly 10 million FFL firearms sales, in FOUR MONTHS? :O Not even counting private-party sales, in most of the country?
Wow. Just... wow.
To get the real impact of how unprecedented this is, take a look at the plots I put together for my old thread about it...
http://www.armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=37800.msg763353#msg763353 (http://www.armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=37800.msg763353#msg763353)
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I was pleasantly surprised to find a couple 20-round AK magazines in the mailbox this afternoon.
I ordered them last week from CTD.
I didn't really need any more AK mags, but I figured I'd give them a try just for listing something "in stock".
Why? I thought they were part of the "capitulators" and the collective we was abstaining from giving them any of our business.
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Nope. I never considered CTD to be Satan's Loin Juice.
That was somebody else.
Near as I can tell, they only stopped sales momentarily to give themselves a business reality check.
That's something the brick & mortar gun shops should've done now that they have empty shelves and no incoming inventory until gawd knows when.
If they're capitulators, how come they donated $100K to the SAF? All the boycotters held a gun to their head?
The AK mags I bought were at the pre-December prices, so if they were gouging, I couldn't see it in my purchase.
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Occasionally CTD has decent deals on something. I have ordered several Suomi M31 9mm stick mags from them lately since they have them in stock. They generally ship quickly also.
Normally, their pricing is not in line with other suppliers or not the lowest. Occasionally, they have what I want when no one else does. I don't think I have ever ordered ammo from them.
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I don't get the hate for CTD either.
Everyone loves capitalists until someone actually acts like one.
If there's anything to not like them for its their other business practices, such as when they take your money and then tell you something is on backorder for 6 months.
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I don't get the hate for CTD either.
Everyone loves capitalists until someone actually acts like one.
If there's anything to not like them for its their other business practices, such as when they take your money and then tell you something is on backorder for 6 months.
Yep my issue with CTD is their other business practices.
Hence I say let them die. There are far better companies to do business with for sure. Business that DON'T jerk one around like CTD or Botach does.
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CTD and at least one of the other major suppliers (Centerfire Systems I think?) canceled a bunch of orders placed before the panic so they could resell at panic prices. All the people who had the foresight to order before prices went nuts screwed over so they could expand their profit margin. I won't support that.
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CTD and at least one of the other major suppliers (Centerfire Systems I think?) canceled a bunch of orders placed before the panic so they could resell at panic prices. All the people who had the foresight to order before prices went nuts screwed over so they could expand their profit margin. I won't support that.
This. I don't have a HUGE issue with their raising prices due to supply-and-demand (although I thought they raised them too far, and I wouldn't pay $100 for a Magpul AR mag). Cancelling outstanding orders placed before the panic so they could try to resell at inflated prices afterwards? That's dishonest, and worthy of punishment.
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Borepatch chats with a Glock marketing guy (http://borepatch.blogspot.com/2013/02/glock-12-million-gun-back-order.html).
Glock is, basically, a year behind in US orders:
I took the dogs to the dog park, and it was cold - almost Yankeeland cold. There were just a few of us watching the dogs play. Then a guy showed up. A guy wearing a Glock jacket.
I struck up a conversation, and it turns out that he's in Glock's marketing department. We had a long and very interesting conversation. Glock's Smyrna, GA plant builds 30,000 guns a month, and is running flat out. Their two Austrian plants are jointly building roughly 100,000 guna/month for the American market.* That's about 130,000 guns a month.
They have orders in hand for 1,200,000 guns - that's nearly a year's production. A year, running all their factories at 100% capacity.
He also mentioned that they have a very interesting set of new models that they will be introducing in June. I actually promised not to let the cat out of the bag here (yeah, I'm being a jerk) but it has a model that I might actually consider buying. Even though (as Kim du Toit used to say) they're ugly, plastic, and made by furreners.
* They actually import them as parts - big bags of recoil springs, etc - and assemble them here. That saves something like $150/gun in import duty.
Also note this about the "NY boycott" thing:
Sean, yes I did. All their sales are via 17 distributors, so they actually don't sell anything to LEOs, even though they have something like 80% of State/local LEO market.
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Very nearly 10 million FFL firearms sales, in FOUR MONTHS? :O Not even counting private-party sales, in most of the country?
Wow. Just... wow.
Isn't it 10 million background checks? If you walk into a gun store and buy 2 or more firearms, they still run only one background check, correct?
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Isn't it 10 million background checks? If you walk into a gun store and buy 2 or more firearms, they still run only one background check, correct?
Correct.
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I don't get the hate for CTD either.
Everyone loves capitalists until someone actually acts like one.
If there's anything to not like them for its their other business practices, such as when they take your money and then tell you something is on backorder for 6 months.
I think it was based on the whole -folding-under-pressure-and-not-selling-evil-black-rifles-anymore
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I called a local gun store and asked how they were doing on ammo. The lady laughed. ;)
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I think it was based on the whole -folding-under-pressure-and-not-selling-evil-black-rifles-anymore
Could be, but they're selling black rifles.
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ItemListing.aspx?catid=7777
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Went to a local gun store yesterday and they were pretty well stocked up on all sorts of ammo.
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"all sorts of ammo" can be pretty general. Bass Pro Shops had all sorts of ammo if you are looking for hunting ammo in calibers that are not 308, 223, 5.56, 7.62X39 or any halfway common pistol ammo.
I realized last night my local Academy had Winchester 5.56 and Monarch 308, 7.62x39, 223 up at the front service desk. Limit of one box per person per caliber.
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They had all those. There was another place selling Wolf 7.62x39 and some type of bulk surplus .308. When I was back home in Kansas the Cabela's had a huge stack of Herter's 7.62x39, had a limit but I don't know what it was, maybe 20 boxes.
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Could be, but they're selling black rifles.
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ItemListing.aspx?catid=7777
Well, now they are. They stopped selling guns right alongside Dick's decision to stop selling ARs. That suspension was phrased thusly:
Cheaper Than Dirt! is suspending online sales of firearms effective immediately. We are reviewing our policy internally, and will continue to be the leader in the outdoor industry with our full line of gear and accessories.
Given the context and the timing, the meaning I read that as: "We're stopping online gun sales, and are trying to decide whether or not we're going to continue selling guns online at all. Don't worry, we'll still sell camping and hunting stuff."
Their customer base exploded at them and all of a sudden their decision wan't about "Reviewing our policy" it was about catching up on their orders.
You may buy their spin, but I don't. I think they stopped because they were afraid they were going to be excoriated by the press for selling guns online and thought it would be a good PR trick to be like Dick's did and make a proactive move against guns. Get out ahead of the antis, as it were. Since then they've had to backpedal for their lives when they figured out what their customers thought of that decision (hence the donation to SAF and pimping their no sales to anti-gun states policy).
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Given the context and the timing, the meaning I read that as: "We're stopping online gun sales, and are trying to decide whether or not we're going to continue selling guns online at all. Don't worry, we'll still sell camping and hunting stuff."
Exactly the way I read it too.
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I disagree.
Seeing how gunshops and Mountain of Geese are currently and completely sold out of everything, without any prospect of being really stocked until maybe sometime in 2014 if not later, it was never a bad idea to take a short time out and assess one's business model for the long haul. Inconvenient to panicked consumers, yes. I'm still flabbergasted by the $1.00/round XM193 55gr ammo at the last gun show I attended, and the flocks of people scrambling to buy it at that price.
"Suspend" always meant "temporary" in my understanding of the term. Magpul will probably suspend sales while they transition to their new digs outside Colorado, too. It may be a couple days, or a couple weeks.
As for Dick's, well, I never liked them to begin with. They are a sports clothing and shoe store that dabbles in boomsticks on the side. It wasn't their big revenue generator.
Wait until the next school shooting. There won't be anything left to buy, IMHO.
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I guess we'll have to disagree (except about Dick's and what will happen when there is another shooting). Context and phrasing simply did not indicate they were on the side of the angels. Everything they've done since then has been desperately trying to make up for the bad publicity their initial statement caused.
If they were really worried about being overwhelmed with orders, they - like so many others - would have said something like "Due to overwhelming order volume, we are temporarily not accepting new orders. Existing firearm orders may be delayed as much as 72 hours for shipping while we catch up with the backlog." Instead they start talking about reviewing policies? Not at all the same thing.
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When you take all the ammo and components out of the Midway flier, it gets mighty thin.
I think that shows how bad things have become.
jim
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I disagree.
Seeing how gunshops and Mountain of Geese are currently and completely sold out of everything, without any prospect of being really stocked until maybe sometime in 2014 if not later, it was never a bad idea to take a short time out and assess one's business model for the long haul. Inconvenient to panicked consumers, yes. I'm still flabbergasted by the $1.00/round XM193 55gr ammo at the last gun show I attended, and the flocks of people scrambling to buy it at that price.
"Suspend" always meant "temporary" in my understanding of the term. Magpul will probably suspend sales while they transition to their new digs outside Colorado, too. It may be a couple days, or a couple weeks.
As for Dick's, well, I never liked them to begin with. They are a sports clothing and shoe store that dabbles in boomsticks on the side. It wasn't their big revenue generator.
Wait until the next school shooting. There won't be anything left to buy, IMHO.
I don't know. I think part of what is happening now is a whole bunch of people who never bothered to stock up before are buying all the ammo they can until they feel they have enough. I guess there are others stocking up for the Great Ban also. The question for me is when will those people feel they have enough and who is coming up behind them to stock up after the next shooting.
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I don't know. I think part of what is happening now is a whole bunch of people who never bothered to stock up before are buying all the ammo they can until they feel they have enough. I guess there are others stocking up for the Great Ban also. The question for me is when will those people feel they have enough and who is coming up behind them to stock up after the next shooting.
It isn't about having "enough". Scarcity or perceived scarcity can itself provide reason to continue to buy long after you have a sufficient amount. For me, anyway.
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State of the Industry, March 2013
As I type this it is almost 3AM at my desk and it is still polluted with 4473's, invoices and all sorts of hardware of the Hoi Polloi so I needed a break.
Few quick notes:
I have talked with MANY manufacturer reps. Factories are AT CAPACITY. A year ago, the factory was at capacity and the order books have just gotten larger.
The week of Sandy Hook - LWRCI booked $10,000,000 in orders in ONE WEEK. That's a lot of black rifle.
Bushmaster, DPMS, all of Freedom Group - way behind. I don't think it's quantifiable by integer but they are at capacity.
ATK - I talked to them and they are currently backlogged THREE YEARS with the current size of the order book. If the order book gets larger, the backlog goes up.
This is no different than an airline calling up Boeing and saying - Hi, we need 10 737's. You can build one every week so that should take 10 weeks tops, right? Wrong. Everyone is ahead of you in line. You've got to wait your turn.
I'm seeing some distributors play favorites and allocate product to their big accounts - Academy, Gander, Bass Pro, et al but I do not see a lot of smaller dealers getting anything to sell. Everything is still tight across the board.
With Magpul doing a Boulder Airlift, that is going to play with magazine prices but if Colorado gets their ban - magazine prices will rise into the legislative effective date and a lot of people will cash in on Colorado residents because they are willing to pay to get mags before the window closes just like the Californians did.
Barrett - 10 months on all rifle orders. Non-essential productiction rifles are being shelved, so REC7 is indefinite and M82A1 is 10 months out.
HK - Moving some 7.62 piston rifle production stateside, should mean more product but I am skeptical.
Colt - At capacity.
I don't know what prices are going to do because demand is perpetually in flux but a LOT of people went overboard at Christmas and Tax Refund season so lets see how things play out.
http://www.reddit.com/r/guns/comments/19iivg/state_of_the_industry_march_2013/ (http://www.reddit.com/r/guns/comments/19iivg/state_of_the_industry_march_2013/)
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Yup.
If you don't have it already, you ain't gonna get it anytime soon.
Magazines, to me, used to be "wear items". I have a goodly stash, but knowing the supply chain issues, I am scaling way back on my shooting activities until things settle down.
Well, that, and I don't want to burn through my reloading components - since they are also unobtanium at present. =(
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So I saw my Wilson Arms owner friend last night (Wilson ARMS makes gun barrels for all of the above) I said tii him, "How's the backorders?" he says, "I'm thinking I should send Obama a bonus check for salesman of the year!" :rofl:
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Yup.
If you don't have it already, you ain't gonna get it anytime soon.
Magazines, to me, used to be "wear items". I have a goodly stash, but knowing the supply chain issues, I am scaling way back on my shooting activities until things settle down.
Well, that, and I don't want to burn through my reloading components - since they are also unobtanium at present. =(
I know what you mean. I just got more mags and another drum for my Suomi. I am not even sure if I want to shoot it as I don't have a great deal of 9mm.
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Borepatch chats with a Glock marketing guy (http://borepatch.blogspot.com/2013/02/glock-12-million-gun-back-order.html).
Glock is, basically, a year behind in US orders:
Also note this about the "NY boycott" thing:
If Glock is going to unveil a bunch of new models in June... I'm hoping that one of them is a single-stack 9mm.
j/k =D
However, as one of the commenters at Borepatch pointed out, a Glock 9mm carbine would be really sweet.
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If Glock is going to unveil a bunch of new models in June... I'm hoping that one of them is a single-stack 9mm.
j/k =D
However, as one of the commenters at Borepatch pointed out, a Glock 9mm carbine would be really sweet.
No, it's going to bee the new Glock carbine, the... Garbine. ;)
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Yup.
If you don't have it already, you ain't gonna get it anytime soon.
Magazines, to me, used to be "wear items". I have a goodly stash, but knowing the supply chain issues, I am scaling way back on my shooting activities until things settle down.
I got an "it's in now" notification from Midway, about Glock 19 magazine springs. I ordered in enough to rebuild most of my Korean G19 magazines.
I confirmed graphically, something I've noticed. KCI uses crappy springs. See attached. There's barely enough strength to get the follower to the feed lips.
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I received a notification for an AR-15 mag catch at Midway. I just checked and they are sold out already. Total elapsed time: 13 minutes.
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Wheaton Gun Show today:
Got there at 9am. There was ammo here and there so we'd figure that we swing thru see what there is to see and find the "deals". :rofl:
First it was packed. Wall to wall humanity.
AR's (about 10 total in the whole place) Anywhere from $1600-$3000 (All were labeled as "Rare" ). AR mags Magpul-$45 and up, crappy aluminum GI ones-$30
Looked like everyone had emptied out their basement of anything and everything gun related, put ridiculous prices on it and dropped it on a table. (No Beanie- Babies, but lots of jerky, WWII/Nazi stuff, BBQ sauces, the usual political types passing out fliers and leaflets.)
Doors opened at 9am we got there about 9:30. Reloading guys had almost no primers (saw some Magnum large rifle and lots of shotgun), very little powder, save BP substitutes.
By the time we left at 11:00 the guy near the front selling reloaded pistol ammo was down to .40S&W. Most other folks only had a a box or three of non-hunting rifle ammo going for on average $1.00 a round. Pistol ammo was averaging $.50 per round.
Lots of revolvers, shotguns and bolt/lever guns. A few semi-pistols. And one guy asking $695 for an Ishapore SMLE No1. MkIII*. :rofl: :rofl:
I bought a rare earth magnet and two road flares. =D
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Well, my gunshow was a bit better. Chatted with a guy who was privately selling an AR, Plum Crazy plastic lower, but good upper, mags, and 400 rds of ammo for $1250. Thought it was a great deal, I somehow kept my money in my pocket. I assume he sold it, but I did see him still with it after an hour, damn near bought it. I don't think the panic is off, just people have run out of money. I off-loaded my Saiga-12 for a good deal, I did see one dealer with a Saiga 20 for sale at 1,200+. ;/ ;/ :rofl: [barf] :rofl: I think the black rifle crowd in my area has reached fatigue, there were not many takers on the $1/rd 5.56 several dealers had. I had P-mags for sale at $35 no takers, would have taken 30, didn't need to sell them, but if someone really needed them... Sold a 1911 I didn't think I would, not the most in demand gun, but found someone who wanted one. Primers? What's that? Several dealers had $2,500 ARs and 1,100 stock AKs. The guys with the big nazi flags, can we set them on fire yet?
Biggest WTF was component bullets. I bought 500 230gr Berrys for $85, meaning my loaded cost for 500 will be about $125 and 2 hours. If I ever get my new loading bench up... I saw a bag of pulled SS109 projectiles, crappy for loading IMO, $185 for 500? Huh?
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I got a notification today from Midway that Glock OEM G19 magazines were back in stock. Well, they're back out of stock.
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I can get OEm Glock 19 mags locally. Limit 2 a day, with tax about $40 apiece. I'm happy to ship them to APS'ers in need.
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Don't need 'em. I've got 5 factory magazines, and a pile of KCI, now rebuilt with decent springs. I'll be OK.
A shop in the next town south of me put their business on hiatus back in Nov. Some financial manipulation, to get them out from under a building they couldn't afford. Anyway, I got word they're back open, in a new location, so I went to see what they had.
Nothing. A few scraps of ammo, some AR parts, and not much else. They're trying to get stock in.
Handgunworld Show Episode 221 -- Got Ammo? (http://www.handgunworld.com/ep-221-got-ammo/). "It reminds people of South Africa during the embargo. You shoot 9mm ball, because that's all you can get."
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I had a .223 ammo sighting last night at the local Fleet Farm.
20 rd boxes of WWB 55gr for $10+change- thy must have had 30 of them in stock. More than I wanted to pay.
I didn't buy any, but I ended up buying a spam can of 54r ammo.
Sort of regret not buying a 5.45 upper+mags- they had about a dozen spam cans of 5.45 ammo in stock.
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Interviewing for a job in two hours in Menominee Falls, which will give me good proximity to FF during lunch breaks if I get it.
It's about the ONLY decently priced place in SE WI to buy ammo off the shelf.
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Interviewing for a job in two hours in Menominee Falls, which will give me good proximity to FF during lunch breaks if I get it.
It's about the ONLY decently priced place in SE WI to buy ammo off the shelf.
MenomOnee. Spell my hometown correct dammit :)
Its Me-no-monee
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I had a .223 ammo sighting last night at the local Fleet Farm.
20 rd boxes of WWB 55gr for $10+change- thy must have had 30 of them in stock. More than I wanted to pay.
I didn't buy any, but I ended up buying a spam can of 54r ammo.
Sort of regret not buying a 5.45 upper+mags- they had about a dozen spam cans of 5.45 ammo in stock.
I guess I am working on my 5.45 upper. My 5.45 Spikes Tactical upper won't shoot the surplus stuff. 1 in 5 rounds went off despite fairly deep dimples in the primers. Same ammo went off just find in my Tantal. I got a high power hammer spring in this week to try. Not sure what the next step is. I have a rail and red dot on the way for my AK and plenty of ammo for my AK as a backup. Some rays of sunshine in a ammo poor world.
THere is a gun show weekend after next in Houston. I think I'll continue to pass on them until at least wholsale prices and stocks recover a little.
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Me-no-monee
Do doo de doo doo...
Me-no-monee
Doo doo doo doo....
Me-no-monee
Da doo doo, da doo doo, da doo doo doo doo doo!
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Do doo de doo doo...
Doo doo doo doo....
Da doo doo, da doo doo, da doo doo doo doo doo!
Freak.
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I tried to find that tune on youtube but have no idea what the title is. :laugh:
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I tried to find that tune on youtube but have no idea what the title is. :laugh:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8N_tupPBtWQ
Mahna Mahna
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Menomenah
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Do doo de doo doo...
Doo doo doo doo....
Da doo doo, da doo doo, da doo doo doo doo doo!
I laughed my ass off at this
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Interviewing for a job in two hours in Menominee Falls, which will give me good proximity to FF during lunch breaks if I get it.
It's about the ONLY decently priced place in SE WI to buy ammo off the shelf.
Ah. I should have mentioned that I was at the West Bend store. The Germantown store is much bigger, but the West Bend store gets a lot less traffic...Hope you had some luck at that store.
I guess I am working on my 5.45 upper. My 5.45 Spikes Tactical upper won't shoot the surplus stuff. 1 in 5 rounds went off despite fairly deep dimples in the primers. Same ammo went off just find in my Tantal. I got a high power hammer spring in this week to try. Not sure what the next step is. I have a rail and red dot on the way for my AK and plenty of ammo for my AK as a backup. Some rays of sunshine in a ammo poor world.
Check your hammer spring. Its really easy to install it upside down. It will look mostly correct and will still dimple your primers really well, but it won't set them off reliably. Worse, when you buy a LPK, some drunken monkey/gremlin/deranged practical joker will more often than not already have the spring pre-installed on the hammer upside down.
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Ah. I should have mentioned that I was at the West Bend store. The Germantown store is much bigger, but the West Bend store gets a lot less traffic...Hope you had some luck at that store.
Check your hammer spring. Its really easy to install it upside down. It will look mostly correct and will still dimple your primers really well, but it won't set them off reliably. Worse, when you buy a LPK, some drunken monkey/gremlin/deranged practical joker will more often than not already have the spring pre-installed on the hammer upside down.
Yeah, I'm sure the Mana-manah or the Germantown store is going to be picked over, but it'll still be better than Walmart, Gander, or the other chain, Farm Fleet in Waukesha. I could also probably swing in early in the mornings on my way into work if I get that job...
BTW birdman, I know how to spell Menomonee Falls, =D I was at a Starbucks waiting for my headhunter/pimp to show before going to the client for an interview, and my Android phone just autocompleted it in the other way the tribe spells it with an "i", vs. the municipality and I didn't notice.
Considering my phone knew stuff like "Wauwatosa", "Waukesha" and "Oconomowoc" right from the box, I just presumed the autocomplete was pulling from Google location services of some such. :P
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Yeah, I'm sure the Mana-manah or the Germantown store is going to be picked over, but it'll still be better than Walmart, Gander, or the other chain, Farm Fleet in Waukesha. I could also probably swing in early in the mornings on my way into work if I get that job...
BTW birdman, I know how to spell Menomonee Falls, =D I was at a Starbucks waiting for my headhunter/pimp to show before going to the client for an interview, and my Android phone just autocompleted it in the other way the tribe spells it with an "i", vs. the municipality and I didn't notice.
Considering my phone knew stuff like "Wauwatosa", "Waukesha" and "Oconomowoc" right from the box, I just presumed the autocomplete was pulling from Google location services of some such. :P
Fair enough. Want to have fun? Ask non-SEWI folks how to spell mukwonago.
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Menomenah
The question is: Who cares!
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Ah. I should have mentioned that I was at the West Bend store. The Germantown store is much bigger, but the West Bend store gets a lot less traffic...Hope you had some luck at that store.
Check your hammer spring. Its really easy to install it upside down. It will look mostly correct and will still dimple your primers really well, but it won't set them off reliably. Worse, when you buy a LPK, some drunken monkey/gremlin/deranged practical joker will more often than not already have the spring pre-installed on the hammer upside down.
I'll certainly check it. I installed the trigger and put the lower together so I could only blame myself. The rifle works fine with Wolf or Silver Bear 5.45. I realized I hadn't ever shot surplus through it and did so the other day only to see it misfire. I haven't actually asked Spike's about it yet either.
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Any signs of a new run on gun purchases yet?
From today's keepandbeararms.com news page: 70,291,049 Background Checks for Gun Purchases Under Obama (http://cnsnews.com/blog/gregory-gwyn-williams-jr/70291049-background-checks-gun-purchases-under-obama).
The FBI conducted 14,409,616 background checks in 2010, 16,454,951 in 2011, and 19,592,303 in 2012.
Add to that the first three months of 2013 (2,495,440, 2,309,393 and 2,209,407, respectively) and the total number of background checks under President Obama comes to 70,291,049.
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Fair enough. Want to have fun? Ask non-SEWI folks how to spell mukwonago.
And us Okies get crap about the names of some of our towns.
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I think the hardware side of the business is starting to cool off. My local gun stores have ak mags, ar mags, and some rifles and accessories in stock.
Ammo is still scarce, especially 22lr.
7.62x39 fmj and hp are available in some stores.
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I think the hardware side of the business is starting to cool off. My local gun stores have ak mags, ar mags, and some rifles and accessories in stock.
Ammo is still scarce, especially 22lr.
7.62x39 fmj and hp are available in some stores.
Things are still tight but seem to be loosening up. LGS has EBR's, priced a little higher than normal but not enough to make you laugh at them. Ammo trickles in and runs out, but it's getting there and slowly but surely it's calming down.
Was at the local flea market yesterday and saw a reasonable amount of ammo available and still getting packed up at the end of the day. A couple of months ago they could have been selling their $22 50 round box of 9mm FMJ by the truckload, not so much now.
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The local Cabela's had a handful of gen 4 9mm and .40 S&W FDE Glocks for $599 when I was there today.