Author Topic: A Local Rocket Launch for Interested Northwest Folks  (Read 15320 times)

AmbulanceDriver

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Re: A Local Rocket Launch for Interested Northwest Folks
« Reply #50 on: August 27, 2009, 12:51:33 PM »
This is what you need....  Just wait for about the 10 second mark....  :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0nw7312VJs
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Jocassee

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Re: A Local Rocket Launch for Interested Northwest Folks
« Reply #51 on: August 27, 2009, 01:12:26 PM »


Yes you could, but it is seriously frowned upon.  Guided missle stuff there, and .gov gets all jittery about that.  All model rockets must be free flight, no guidance at all.
 

I wasn't interested until you said that. Is something wrong with me?

*rushes off to buy servos and a remote control*
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RocketMan

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Re: A Local Rocket Launch for Interested Northwest Folks
« Reply #52 on: August 27, 2009, 08:04:45 PM »
There is one type of "guidance" that is legal, or at least I have never heard of it being questioned by .gov.  Some folks do it for the technical challenge involved.  It is to build a rocket that is a sun-seeker.  The guidance system causes the rocket to actively steer toward the sun.  Of course, to keep the rocket flying close to vertical, you want to launch it when the sun is high in the sky.
If there really was intelligent life on other planets, we'd be sending them foreign aid.

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My wife often says to me, "You are evil and must be destroyed." She may be right.

Liberals believe one should never let reason, logic and facts get in the way of a good emotional argument.

41magsnub

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Re: A Local Rocket Launch for Interested Northwest Folks
« Reply #53 on: August 27, 2009, 10:29:53 PM »
There is one type of "guidance" that is legal, or at least I have never heard of it being questioned by .gov.  Some folks do it for the technical challenge involved.  It is to build a rocket that is a sun-seeker.  The guidance system causes the rocket to actively steer toward the sun.  Of course, to keep the rocket flying close to vertical, you want to launch it when the sun is high in the sky.

So what you're really saying is they are trying to make an early model sidewinder?   =D

roo_ster

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Re: A Local Rocket Launch for Interested Northwest Folks
« Reply #54 on: August 27, 2009, 11:09:03 PM »
Rat bastards...  =D

Quote from: jfruser's re-entry
1 x Quest Big Betty Kit (QU-1014) = $9.09
1 x Quest Skyscope Altitude Measurer 2 Pack (QU-7812) = $4.89
2 x Quest Payloader One Kit (QU-1018) = $14.68
2 x Quest B6-4 Motors (QU-5741) = $12.16
2 x Quest A6-4 Motors (QU-5740) = $11.74
1 x Quest T-Minus 5 Two Rocket Starter Set (QU-5736) = $30.09
1 x Quest Q2G2 Igniters (QU-7024) = $4.89
Regards,

roo_ster

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RocketMan

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Re: A Local Rocket Launch for Interested Northwest Folks
« Reply #55 on: August 27, 2009, 11:37:10 PM »
To further whet some appetites, try these:

A great general rocketry website with a good forum: Rocketry Planet

A well known manufacturer of HPR motors and stuff: Aerotech

Another good site. With links to other good sites, too: Fly Rockets!

Another rocketry forum (part of a vendor website): Ye Olde Rocket Forum

HPR motors by the subsidiary of a Canadian company that make motors for commercial
and military uses: Cesaroni Technology

« Last Edit: August 27, 2009, 11:40:34 PM by RocketMan »
If there really was intelligent life on other planets, we'd be sending them foreign aid.

Conservatives see George Orwell's "1984" as a cautionary tale.  Progressives view it as a "how to" manual.

My wife often says to me, "You are evil and must be destroyed." She may be right.

Liberals believe one should never let reason, logic and facts get in the way of a good emotional argument.

RocketMan

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Re: A Local Rocket Launch for Interested Northwest Folks
« Reply #56 on: September 10, 2009, 12:00:33 AM »
Hey, AmbulanceDriver, you still planning on going to the launch Saturday?  Fjolnirsson and I are getting our schedules dialed in.  We'll be leaving the Lebanon area NLT 0900, expect to be at the launch site 1030-ish.
If there really was intelligent life on other planets, we'd be sending them foreign aid.

Conservatives see George Orwell's "1984" as a cautionary tale.  Progressives view it as a "how to" manual.

My wife often says to me, "You are evil and must be destroyed." She may be right.

Liberals believe one should never let reason, logic and facts get in the way of a good emotional argument.

AmbulanceDriver

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Re: A Local Rocket Launch for Interested Northwest Folks
« Reply #57 on: September 10, 2009, 12:54:12 AM »
Yeah, was just talking it over w/ the Mrs.  It sounds like we'll be heading out there...  Should we bring a canopy type thing for cover, or will there be stuff like that set up?  Don't wanna get broiled....  Especially the Mrs.  Also bringing chairs, lunch, and lotsa water.  :)
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RocketMan

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Re: A Local Rocket Launch for Interested Northwest Folks
« Reply #58 on: September 10, 2009, 01:01:48 AM »
Bring your own canopy if you have one.  I've got an old beat up unit that's been to a lot of launches.  Not a pop-up, so I may just tough it out (with the hat that Balog sold me :) ).
If there really was intelligent life on other planets, we'd be sending them foreign aid.

Conservatives see George Orwell's "1984" as a cautionary tale.  Progressives view it as a "how to" manual.

My wife often says to me, "You are evil and must be destroyed." She may be right.

Liberals believe one should never let reason, logic and facts get in the way of a good emotional argument.

AmbulanceDriver

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Re: A Local Rocket Launch for Interested Northwest Folks
« Reply #59 on: September 10, 2009, 01:18:54 AM »
We've got a 10x10 canopy.   We'll make sure to bring it.  It's a pop-up, so it's pretty easy to set up.
Are you a cook, or a RIFLEMAN?  Find out at Appleseed!

http://www.appleseedinfo.org

"For some many people, attempting to process a logical line of thought brings up the blue screen of death." -Blakenzy

Fjolnirsson

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Re: A Local Rocket Launch for Interested Northwest Folks
« Reply #60 on: September 10, 2009, 09:59:34 AM »
yeah, we have an old canopy, but again. not a pop up, so I doubt we'll bring it.
Hi.

RocketMan

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Re: A Local Rocket Launch for Interested Northwest Folks
« Reply #61 on: September 13, 2009, 06:31:16 PM »
We had a great time at the rocket launch Saturday.  Fjolnirsson was not able to make it due to a sick kidlet.  Hopefully she is doing better.
AmbulanceDriver made the launch.  He managed some successful flights on an Estes rocket he brought along.  I will let him weigh in on his experiences.
My #2 son and a couple of his friends attended.  We finally got our rocket fix after being away from the hobby for four years.  He flew two of his rockets multiple times on 'G' class motors, including his first attempt at using a reloadable motor.  Aside from a bee sting, he had a great time.
I made just three flights, but they were all perfect.  The first was a small Loc Precision "Aura" I've had for close to twenty years.  It went up on a single-use Aerotech D30-4T for a good flight.  It spit the motor and adapter at apogee, but that's no big deal.  The adapter was cobbled together from 50¢ worth of parts from the junk box, so I am out nothing.
The second flight was a five foot tall, three inch diameter custom rocket I call "Lancer", on a single-use Aerotech G80-7W motor.  Another perfect flight and recovery.
My last flight of the day was my custom Payloader III rocket.  At about six feet tall, it went up on a high power Aerotech H148-R motor.  It used motor delay charge ejection, not electronics, and yet it ejected the chute right at appogee.  Dead on perfect.
It was a good day overall.  I came home dead tired, sunburned, back aching, feet blistered, but as content as I could be.
If there really was intelligent life on other planets, we'd be sending them foreign aid.

Conservatives see George Orwell's "1984" as a cautionary tale.  Progressives view it as a "how to" manual.

My wife often says to me, "You are evil and must be destroyed." She may be right.

Liberals believe one should never let reason, logic and facts get in the way of a good emotional argument.

Silver Bullet

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Re: A Local Rocket Launch for Interested Northwest Folks
« Reply #62 on: September 13, 2009, 07:35:06 PM »
Sounds great !

I've got my eye on a Pemberton Kraken lately.  Don't know if I'll take the plunge or not right now.  I need to practice standing and sitting shooting prior to my next Appleseed, which is coming up fast.

roo_ster

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Re: A Local Rocket Launch for Interested Northwest Folks
« Reply #63 on: September 13, 2009, 09:03:16 PM »
Might as well make my rocket report.

Last week the kiddos took out the Quest Astra III kit and launched it four times, more or less successfully.  Also had four more or less successful landings.

Assembly of Quest Astra III

To start with, I put the rather simple rocket together the night before.  It called for the gel model glue like one would use on plastic model planes.  Well, I didn't have that, but I did have some old-school JB Weld.  That seemed to work wherever glue was called for, uh-huh.

I like the way Quest has a kevlar cord connected to the motor mount up through the body tube and then it tied to an elastic cord connecting to the nose cone.

Another mod to the kit was to use a dab of wood glue on every knot, shock cord & parachute.

Last, I used a fishing barrel swivel & hook about 3" short of hte nose cone as my chute/streamer attachment.

Model Rocketry Pain in the ass Factor

Finding a place to shoot them off was much harder than expected.  The city of Richardson bans them at all parks.  Plano has just one place in one park where they can be shot from April-October...with a permit if you are 18+ years old.  I managed to get a permit. 

When I was a kid, any ol' park that looked big enough was good enough.  Seems our hyper-regulated society is regulating such hobbies out of existence.  I would have no place to shoot them in cycling distance, were I living at my address and 12YO.

The local rocketry organization, http://www.dars.org/, has a couple other spots that can be used year-round, but they are a good ways away.  Like, 20 miles & 60 miles, roughly.  DARS wants $15/year to launch rockets at these sites, but they can only be utilized during sanctioned launch dates & times.  Also, they imply, per their membership app (http://www.dars.org/images/darsapp.pdf) that they expect you to be a member of a national org (http://www.nar.org/) or (http://www.tripoli.org) both of which cost $60+/year.

The PITA factor was something I did not reckon with, as I ordered the materials.  I am mightily angry over it, to be frank.

Flight of Quest Astra III

I was able to talk my neighbor, the disabled (TBI) PhD EE who lives behind us, to come along.  We have both done rocketry, but he has the distinction of being arrested by the city for shooting off rockets.  So, along with my 4YO son and 3YO daughter, we went to the designated launch section of the designated park.

All shots were done with Quest A6-4 motors, the minimum suggested motor.  The launch site is so small, I would be loathe to launch this rocket with a B motor and a chute.  A streamer would be the way to go.

There was a slight breeze and I took that into account with my launch site.  The first launch was my daughter's turn and it went up in a large arc.  I think I used too much dog barf wadding and the chute did not open, but clumped together, despite the suggested chute fold.

The second launch was my boy's first, done with a rather long streamer made from yellow "Caution" tape.  This sucker was WAY overloaded, despite the lesser amount of dog barf.  It went up, cocked over and looked to power into the ground cone first when, 10-15' above ground, the recovery blast went off, decelerating it and disrupting its flight.  The only damage done was a busted plastic fin.

I mended the fin with Krazy Glue gel, which did a smash-up job.  I called a break and we got drinks & snacks as the Krazy Glue set.

Next flight, also set off by my boy, I cut off half the streamer and it went up pretty well, mostly stright...and came down pretty well.  The fin held up to the impact.  (Next time I use a streamer, I'll use the length of the original, but cut out half of it from the side with alternating slices.)

The last flightwas also set off by my boy.  I used the chute, again, with minimal dog barf, and pushed it all down way toward the engine mount.  It was the best flight & recovery, as it went up straight up and came straight down, as the chute deployed wonderfully.

Every launch we counted down from 5 and then yelled "Blast off!" and mashed to launch button.  My daughter was scared of hte rocket launch and did not want to be that close after the first.  Both hooted & hollered as the rockets went up and ran after them as they came down. 

Everybody enjoyed the outing and I was impressed at how robust the starter rocket was.
Regards,

roo_ster

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----G.K. Chesterton

RocketMan

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Re: A Local Rocket Launch for Interested Northwest Folks
« Reply #64 on: September 13, 2009, 09:13:25 PM »
Many of our benighted city and county government types, along with the school boards of various locales, have seen fit, in their infinite wisdom, to ban rocketry activities.  After all, someone might get killed with those dangerous toys.  So say their lawyers, anyway.
Nevermind that not one person has ever been killed as a direct result of flying model rockets.
And nevermind the number of children that die each year across this country engaging in school sanctioned athletic events.
If there really was intelligent life on other planets, we'd be sending them foreign aid.

Conservatives see George Orwell's "1984" as a cautionary tale.  Progressives view it as a "how to" manual.

My wife often says to me, "You are evil and must be destroyed." She may be right.

Liberals believe one should never let reason, logic and facts get in the way of a good emotional argument.

CNYCacher

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Re: A Local Rocket Launch for Interested Northwest Folks
« Reply #65 on: September 13, 2009, 09:23:42 PM »
I suspect that stability is more dependent upon the ratio of forward velocity/exhaust gas velocity than it is dependent upon velocity of air moving across the fins.
On two occasions, I have been asked [by members of Parliament], "Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?" I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question.
Charles Babbage

RocketMan

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Re: A Local Rocket Launch for Interested Northwest Folks
« Reply #66 on: September 13, 2009, 10:47:38 PM »
I suspect that stability is more dependent upon the ratio of forward velocity/exhaust gas velocity than it is dependent upon velocity of air moving across the fins.

Nope.  If that were the case, non-gyroscopically stabilized rockets would not need fins.
Air moving across the fins is the important factor.  The fins are airfoils that provide corrective force to the body of the rocket.  The point at which the fins apply that force is called the "Cp", or Center of Pressure.  Stability is highly dependant on the Cp sitting behind the rocket's Center of Gravity, or Cg.  It should be somewhere between one and two calibers behind the Cg.  Less than one caliber behind the Cg and the rocket will not be stable.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2009, 10:51:20 PM by RocketMan »
If there really was intelligent life on other planets, we'd be sending them foreign aid.

Conservatives see George Orwell's "1984" as a cautionary tale.  Progressives view it as a "how to" manual.

My wife often says to me, "You are evil and must be destroyed." She may be right.

Liberals believe one should never let reason, logic and facts get in the way of a good emotional argument.

AmbulanceDriver

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Re: A Local Rocket Launch for Interested Northwest Folks
« Reply #67 on: September 14, 2009, 09:53:08 AM »
Aight.  I have to weigh in here.  Very nice to meet RocketMan and his son, and SWMBO and I had a great time.  We were actually sitting back from the flight line about 30 feet or so, which made watching the launches a little easier on the necks.  :)

Saw everything motor wise from 1/2A's in the little rockets all the way up to a massive K motor which caused a silght amount of alarm from the launch coordinators (apparently they were afraid there wasn't enough distance from the flight line to the launch pad in the event that K motor decided to spontaneously disassemble itself).  But in the end they launched it.  and boy did that sucker fly.  Witnessed a couple of impressive failures.

One of the less impressive failures was my little rocket.  Scratch built guy with a streamer recovery powered by those little (by comparison to some) D-size estes motors...

First launch was absolutely beautemous.  Streamer popped just past apogee, and the whole shebang drifted gently down to earth.   As I was reloading it for the second flight, I was examining my shock cord, as it looked a little frayed and dried out.  Was thinking I really ought to replace it, but figured it was good for one more flight.....

Launched, apogee, and pop, there's the streamer.  But it's looking a little funny.  Hrm.   Dang it.  Shock cord didn't hold up.  Nose cone and streamer are still attached.  But the body tube is now in a beautiful ballistic trajectory.  Impact was pretty hard.  When they reopened the range, headed out there to recover it.  Sure enough, the body tube had telescoped about 4 inches shorter than it had originally been.   *sigh*
Are you a cook, or a RIFLEMAN?  Find out at Appleseed!

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RocketMan

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Re: A Local Rocket Launch for Interested Northwest Folks
« Reply #68 on: September 14, 2009, 11:53:16 PM »
Judging by his reaction at the high power launches, I think AmbulanceDriver will get hooked on the big stuff.  Hopefully you've got good credit limits on your cards.  =D
It was a real pleasure meeting you and yours on Saturday, AmbulanceDriver.  I'm glad you enjoyed the day.
If there really was intelligent life on other planets, we'd be sending them foreign aid.

Conservatives see George Orwell's "1984" as a cautionary tale.  Progressives view it as a "how to" manual.

My wife often says to me, "You are evil and must be destroyed." She may be right.

Liberals believe one should never let reason, logic and facts get in the way of a good emotional argument.

Physics

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Re: A Local Rocket Launch for Interested Northwest Folks
« Reply #69 on: September 15, 2009, 12:13:19 AM »
Make sure to let us know about the next one!  I want to go to one of these but am just so dang busy.  =)
In the world of science, there is physics.  Everything else is stamp collecting.  -Ernest Rutherford

roo_ster

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Re: A Local Rocket Launch for Interested Northwest Folks
« Reply #70 on: September 16, 2009, 10:43:39 PM »
Let there be photos!

My neighbor snapped some phonecam photos.












Regards,

roo_ster

“Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.”
----G.K. Chesterton

RocketMan

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Re: A Local Rocket Launch for Interested Northwest Folks
« Reply #71 on: September 16, 2009, 11:02:45 PM »
My son used his digital SLR to take (what I hope will turn out to be) some good photos of the launch.  As soon as he sends them to me I will post the best ones.
If there really was intelligent life on other planets, we'd be sending them foreign aid.

Conservatives see George Orwell's "1984" as a cautionary tale.  Progressives view it as a "how to" manual.

My wife often says to me, "You are evil and must be destroyed." She may be right.

Liberals believe one should never let reason, logic and facts get in the way of a good emotional argument.

RocketMan

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Re: A Local Rocket Launch for Interested Northwest Folks
« Reply #72 on: September 19, 2009, 07:59:22 PM »
Pictures!

Rockets in the truck


The yellow and blue rocket is my custom built Lancer, going up on a G80-7W.
The red, black and gold rocket next to it is my son's custom built Apocalypse, going up on a G79-7 IIRC.


Here's my son Matt and I behind the pad discussing a problem with the launch ignition leads.


Lancer on liftoff.


Matt's custom Prometheus about to go up on the first reload he has ever put together,
a G64-7W.  It snapped off the pad so fast, it made a loud CRACK...,


...and we only got a shot of the motor flame, that with the camera running at 3fps.


Getting ready to load my Payloader III.  It went up on an H148R-M, cut to about a 7 second delay.


Payloader III on the pad.


Payloader III liftoff.


Payloader III at ejection.  If you look closely, you can see the smoke coming from just behind
the forward section of the rocket.  The ejection occurred right at apogee.  It doesn't get any
better than that for motor ejection with a manually trimmed delay charge, without using electronics.


Payloader III under the laundry.

« Last Edit: September 19, 2009, 08:02:23 PM by RocketMan »
If there really was intelligent life on other planets, we'd be sending them foreign aid.

Conservatives see George Orwell's "1984" as a cautionary tale.  Progressives view it as a "how to" manual.

My wife often says to me, "You are evil and must be destroyed." She may be right.

Liberals believe one should never let reason, logic and facts get in the way of a good emotional argument.