Army and Marine Corp in a Food Fight

[Waitone]

http://bigpeace.com/pschweizer/2011/06/08/usmc-to-us-army-you-cant-use-our-camo-army-to-usmc-the-h-we-cant/#more-126768

I just love it when the taxpayer gets hosed when government parties squabble. 

[Ned Hamford]

 

There is something highly amusing tho in asserting that the USMC wants to be noticed and distinguishable by the camouflage it wears.
 

Uncle Sams Misguided Children indeed

[AJ Dual]

Yes, it's not as if the Army or any other branch would want the USMC globe-n-eagle that's hidden in the design. 

Maybe the Army can give the Marines all their berets. 

[red headed stranger]

Wow, not too long after they fully rolled out the ACUs. 

[41magsnub]

Didn't the marine core soldiers    wear the same woodland pattern BDU's as all the other branches for the longest time?

If I have any annoyance in this process it is the Army is AGAIN F'ing around with uniforms.  What is this?  The 3rd major change in the last decade?

[roo_ster]

Wow, not too long after they fully rolled out the ACUs. 

Didn't the marine core soldiers    wear the same woodland pattern BDU's as all the other branches for the longest time?

If I have any annoyance in this process it is the Army is AGAIN F'ing around with uniforms.  What is this?  The 3rd major change in the last decade?

Yeah, this is supposed to be the ARMY, not some high school chick who refuses to wear the same outfit twice.

[AJ Dual]

Wow, not too long after they fully rolled out the ACUs. 

The ACU's were a good idea in theory, but absolutely sucked in actual field use. Well, I guess except if you were standing in front of light grey/green gravel. They were way to bright/light for many vegetations, and too gray-green for most deserts/sands/rocks etc. I think ACU sucks in daylight so bad, because they also gave significant score weight to how they looked under NVD's in near-IR too. Although right now, the people we're fighting don't have much in the way of NVD assets. Although the Chinese would...  

Multicam was much better, at least in the varied terrain of Afghanistan, but I guess it's "too expensive" for some reason. (licensing issues?) So only SPECOPS or whatever gets to have it.

So perhaps MARPAT was kind of close to multicam, and with a .gov entity owning the rights to the design, there should (in theory) be no licensing issues.

I don't think anyone will truly be happy with camouflage until nanotech chameleon/squid cromaphore cloth is perfected.

The one that makes me want to LOL is the new navy "camo". First time I saw an off-duty enlisted rating walking in the local mall, I was floored by how indigo/purple it is. So I guess the idea is to make it HARDER to see you in the water if you uh... fall off a ship or something.  

[brimic]

Why doesn't the Army one-up the Marines and choose Multi-cam instead?

[AJ Dual]

Why doesn't the Army one-up the Marines and choose Multi-cam instead?

I think my suggestion above that Multicam (TM) has licensing costs associated with it was NOT correct.

http://www.multicampattern.com/manufacturers

Do I need to license MultiCam® to use it on my products?

No. No license is required to purchase MultiCam® materials.

I dunno. Although we do know the .MIL makes any number of non-rational decisions. Such as: "The troops want Multicam" so we'll give them something else just to show them who's boss."

Or like the now famous sandbagging the Ordnance Corps gave the AR-15 during it's initial testing, like refusing to lube them etc.

Or even after adoption, like MacNamara ordering the use of surplus ball powder for 5.56 production, even though it was known that IMR rod poweder was needed for proper cyclic rate and cleaner operation of the direct impingment gas system.

 

[Tallpine]

The Navy camo should be gray so the enemy can't see the sailors walking around on the ship 

[red headed stranger]

I think my suggestion above that Multicam (TM) has licensing costs associated with it was correct.

http://www.multicampattern.com/manufacturers

Yeah that was my understanding as well.  Ironic that the ACUs were supposed to save money over the multicam, but will ultimately have cost more to roll out and then replace with something better.  

One thing that amazes me about the ACUs is how quickly they fade and become really light colored.  I remember the commissaries having signs next to the laundry detergents that were "ACU friendly"  

[AJ Dual]

The Navy camo should be gray so the enemy can't see the sailors walking around on the ship  

Why not just totally automated ships, with people working from home over the Internet? It would really cut down on logistical costs, and might even reduce the need for daycare expenditures on military bases.

Yeah that was my understanding as well.  Ironic that the ACUs were supposed to save money over the multicam, but will ultimately have cost more to roll out and then replace with something better.  

One thing that amazes me about the ACUs is how quickly they fade and become really light colored.  I remember the commissaries having signs next to the laundry detergents that were "ACU friendly"  

I had to go back and edit to add "NOT correct" I missed typing it, completely changing the tone of what I was going to say. 

Me? I have a quasi version of multi-cam in my SHTF/riot/TEOTAWAKI gear. It's a mix of OD, desert tan, ACU gray/green, coyote brown, whatever was cheap, but decent quality. All blended together with a smattering of WMBD (Walter Mitty Basement Dust... ) and American Obesity Epidemic sweat.

[Zardozimo Oprah Bannedalas]

Why not just totally automated ships, with people working from home over the Internet? It would really cut down on logistical costs, and might even reduce the need for daycare expenditures on military bases.

Why do you want to put innocent divorce lawyers out of a job?

[AJ Dual]

Why do you want to put innocent divorce lawyers out of a job?

They could all move over to personal injury law, and class-action work. That should really provide a boost to the American economy, right? 

[41magsnub]

It would really cut down on logistical costs, and might even reduce the need for daycare expenditures on military bases.

Are you saying the Navy needs day care to keep its sailors in check when in port?   

There were times we could have used that in the Army for some of the idiots while in garrison....

[Jamisjockey]

Yes, it's not as if the Army or any other branch would want the USMC globe-n-eagle that's hidden in the design. 

Maybe the Army can give the Marines all their berets. 

Gotta have something to wipe with, right?

[kgbsquirrel]

The one that makes me want to LOL is the new navy "camo". First time I saw an off-duty enlisted rating walking in the local mall, I was floored by how indigo/purple it is. So I guess the idea is to make it HARDER to see you in the water if you uh... fall off a ship or something.  

My ship (USS Iwo Jima LHD7) was used as a testing platform for the new uniforms back in 2004. We had the MCPON on board for a press event regarding the matter. The whole concept was to produce a new working uniform that A: lasted much longer than the current utilities (which were designed to only last 6 months of hard use) and B: were more presentable even after being worked in. In the MCPON's exact words, "the CNO and I told the designers that we wanted a uniform that sailors could crawl through the bilge, then roll around on the flight deck, and lean up against something the boatswains just painted, and then stand in ranks with other sailors and not be able to tell them apart." Basically, it's less camo against enemy sighting than camo against stains from the course of one's usual work. 

The Navy camo should be gray so the enemy can't see the sailors walking around on the ship 

Actually it is.    The four colors are haze gray, deck gray, black (the three most used paint colors on the ship) and navy blue.




As to the Army, seriously they would have been better sticking with the jungle and 3 color desert patterns in modernized cut and cloth. I used to heckle some of the 10th Mountain guys in Afghanistan that if Mister Taliban ever started sniping us I'd be just fine in my DCU's. 

[red headed stranger]

My ship (USS Iwo Jima LHD7) was used as a testing platform for the new uniforms back in 2004. We had the MCPON on board for a press event regarding the matter. The whole concept was to produce a new working uniform that A: lasted much longer than the current utilities (which were designed to only last 6 months of hard use) and B: were more presentable even after being worked in. In the MCPON's exact words, "the CNO and I told the designers that we wanted a uniform that sailors could crawl through the bilge, then roll around on the flight deck, and lean up against something the boatswains just painted, and then stand in ranks with other sailors and not be able to tell them apart." Basically, it's less camo against enemy sighting than camo against stains from the course of one's usual work.

That makes sense. It's also good that the new utility uniforms look a lot less like some kind of prisoner clothing.  

[kgbsquirrel]

That makes sense. It's also good that the new utility uniforms look a lot less like some kind of prisoner clothing.  

Funny you should mention that. Some of my utilities were labeled "Manufacturer: Fort Leavenworth" 

[Devonai]

“The main concern for the Marine Corps when it comes to other services testing our patterns is that they don’t exactly mimic them,” said Kent, who is scheduled to retire June 9. “The MARPAT design is proprietary, and it’s important those designs are reserved for Marines. We just need to make sure each of our designs is unique to each service.”

Why?  Shouldn't we all be wearing the best pattern for the current environment?  As 41mag said, nobody seemed to care when we were all in Woodland BDUs/Three Color Desert.

In fact, just go back to those two patterns.  I loved Woodland when I was in the Army Guard and hated ACUs after the switch.  Even just mucking around in the New England woods on drills and AT it was so obvious which was the better pattern for concealment.

[RoadKingLarry]

I despised the Navy dungarees. The quality was was absolute crap. They faded way too fast and I could buy budget blue jeans at Wal mart that were made of way better denim and lasted 10X longer and were 25%-50% cheaper.

[freakazoid]

I find the NWUs pretty comfortable, a lot more than the utilities. Plus we no longer look like janitors/inmates. And on top of that we don't have to iron, hose them down with a can of heavy duty starch, and put in "military creases". 

[kgbsquirrel]

I find the NWUs pretty comfortable, a lot more than the utilities. Plus we no longer look like janitors/inmates. And on top of that we don't have to iron, hose them down with a can of heavy duty starch, and put in "military creases".  

Ugh, don't remind me of those. I had a real genius of a BM2 who kept scolding me for not putting creases in my friggin' COVERALLS. Every day I was elbow deep in paint, paint chips, rust, dust, grease and other general muck, and this moron was worried about adding creases to an item of clothing that didn't even call for them as an optional item. *twitch* Also rather into an Air Force NCO once who forced his subordinates to crease and starch their new digi tiger stripes despite the tags clearly stating "DO NOT STARCH." Only one small problem with that. The new high-speed low-drag digi-cams which previously had been nice and subdued on night vision goggles now shown like a beacon lantern, the starch apparently being highly IR reflective (which is also why they went from polished leather to unpolished suede boots btw).

[KD5NRH]

Screw it.  Take a hint from highly sought after badasses.



When they're good enough to win wearing that, they're good enough.

[Regolith]

Screw it.  Take a hint from highly sought after badasses.



When they're good enough to win wearing that, they're good enough.

Except....they haven't fought anyone for 200 years.  Probably a bit rusty.