Author Topic: What if God favors your enemy?  (Read 11783 times)

Perd Hapley

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Re: What if God favors your enemy?
« Reply #75 on: November 19, 2007, 05:11:52 PM »
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But if someone claims that God has revealed certain things about Himself, so that we can know some things about Him, that would be quite reasonable.


There have been conflicting things "revealed" to different people.  Are they all reasonable?

I could answer that pedantically, but let's skip straight to your real question.  Which is:

        A)  Is something true just because some guy from two thousand years ago claimed it was revealed by God? 
Answer)  Of course not.

        B)  How do you know that something was actually revealed by God?
Answer)  That's a good question, with a very in-depth answer.  To summarize, Christians demonstrate the veracity of the Bible by showing evidence that Christ rose from the dead; that His immediate followers gave a reliable record of His teachings, which has been well-preserved until the present day; that the Old Testament has a similar record of reliability and preservation; that miracles and fulfilled prophecy testify to such; and that archeology and secular history agree with the Bible to an impressive degree.  I probably missed a few categories of evidence. 

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griz

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Re: What if God favors your enemy?
« Reply #76 on: November 20, 2007, 03:21:35 AM »
OK.  I wasn't trying to dispute any particular religion, just wanted to know if you considered the claim of divine revelation to make the revalation valid.  My concern is folks like the guy some years ago who convinced his followers to kill themselves so the spaceship, that was on its way, could take them to heaven.  I'm sure he believed G-d told him to, but I don't give him too much validity.

That brings up another question.  Would any contemporary person be taken seriously if they claimed to be sent from G-d?  What sort of miriacles would be required to establish proof?
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CAnnoneer

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Re: What if God favors your enemy?
« Reply #77 on: November 20, 2007, 03:51:08 AM »
To summarize, Christians demonstrate the veracity of the Bible by showing evidence that Christ rose from the dead; that His immediate followers gave a reliable record of His teachings, which has been well-preserved until the present day; that the Old Testament has a similar record of reliability and preservation; that miracles and fulfilled prophecy testify to such; and that archeology and secular history agree with the Bible to an impressive degree.  I probably missed a few categories of evidence. 

Fistful, please walk us through the evidence. As far as I can tell, it is all hearsay - reports on testimony of adherents. For me, solid evidence is what can be established by observation, experimentation, and artifacts.

CAnnoneer

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Re: What if God favors your enemy?
« Reply #78 on: November 20, 2007, 04:01:56 AM »
That brings up another question.  Would any contemporary person be taken seriously if they claimed to be sent from G-d?  What sort of miriacles would be required to establish proof?

Unless they can perform observable, measurable miracles, they likely won't. But, if their message is likeable, they will generate a following nonetheless. They will write a book, which will be commented upon by subsequent followers, expanding the "knowledge" and generating vague predictions and promises. Then some things will inevitably happen that will be interpreted by partial eyes as fulfilment of said promises/predictions and the canon would get its "prophecies come to be". Mix in a little bit of true neutral history, a few deals of mutual support with the secular govs, stir well, and after some long time of iteration, you end with an established major religion.

grampster

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Re: What if God favors your enemy?
« Reply #79 on: November 20, 2007, 04:42:03 AM »
To summarize, Christians demonstrate the veracity of the Bible by showing evidence that Christ rose from the dead; that His immediate followers gave a reliable record of His teachings, which has been well-preserved until the present day; that the Old Testament has a similar record of reliability and preservation; that miracles and fulfilled prophecy testify to such; and that archeology and secular history agree with the Bible to an impressive degree.  I probably missed a few categories of evidence. 

Fistful, please walk us through the evidence. As far as I can tell, it is all hearsay - reports on testimony of adherents. For me, solid evidence is what can be established by observation, experimentation, and artifacts.

Cannoneer,
Get a copy of Evidence That Demands a Verdict.  Josh McDowell.  Probably can be found at a used book store or a Christian used book store.
Mr. McDowell wrote this book as a mission to debunk Christianity and came to the opposite conclusion.  He did a monumental amount of work and it's all footnoted as well.  This work should answer all of your questions.
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Werewolf

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Re: What if God favors your enemy?
« Reply #80 on: November 20, 2007, 05:11:33 AM »
I think Einstein was wrong.

God DOES PLAY DICE WITH THE UNIVERSE.  shocked

Better hope his rolls go your way.
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: What if God favors your enemy?
« Reply #81 on: November 20, 2007, 05:54:48 AM »
Imagine what folks will be saying about L. Ron Hubbard in 2000 years grin.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

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Perd Hapley

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Re: What if God favors your enemy?
« Reply #82 on: November 20, 2007, 01:23:36 PM »
That brings up another question.  Would any contemporary person be taken seriously if they claimed to be sent from G-d?  What sort of miracles would be required to establish proof?

Unless they can perform observable, measurable miracles, they likely won't. But, if their message is likeable, they will generate a following nonetheless.


Like this guy?  http://abcnews.go.com/Primetime/story?id=2925021&page=1


Fistful, please walk us through the evidence. As far as I can tell, it is all hearsay - reports on testimony of adherents. 

I'm glad to report that it is not all hearsay.  People like Peter, John the Apostle, Paul, Moses and many others, wrote of things they saw for themselves, including resurrections. 

I have gone into more detail in other threads.  I may do so again.  But you are a smart guy, and you can do your own research.  Other people have been paid to write what I would be writing for free.  And you get what you pay for.  As grampster suggested, the Evidence books are probably a good place to go.  They sell them at my local Barnes & Noble, maybe yours, too.  Or you might find it at a library.  Which would be good, as it is a big, hardback affair. 

If you wish to be really devious, see if any local churches have a library.  They might have it.  If you can manage to borrow it from them, you can leave all manner of subversive notes in between the pages.  smiley

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