Author Topic: Cup 'O' Joe!  (Read 17106 times)

wmenorr67

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Re: Cup 'O' Joe!
« Reply #50 on: August 23, 2011, 01:57:16 PM »
Whenever people ask me about roasting, I like to refer them to the one-stop shopping of coffee roasting: www.sweetmarias.com

I started roasting back in the early 90's, and have used a hot-air popcorn popper, a Hearthware Gourmet, a Hearthware Precision, a stovetop popcorn popper, a Caffe Rosto, stovetop stockpot, heatgun/dogbowl, a Z&D and a Behmor.  I now use the Behmor about 75% of the time, stovetop stockpot about 15% and heatgun/dogbowl about 10% of the time; the latter two just to keep my hand in using these methods.  The Behmor costs around $ 300 and allows me to roast one pound batches.

I belong to a co-op that buys bags of coffee beans from the importers, we split them up and then mail them to each other.  By eliminating the middlemen and vendors, we save a lot.  With shipping and everything, I am usually paying around $ 5 per pound for top quality green coffee beans.  Some of the rarer coffees go for more, but we run this as a non-profit venture.  At sweet marias and the other vendors, you pay around $ 7-9 per pound shipped to your door. 

So there is a cost savings, but to me, the advantage is having fresh-roasted coffee, roasted to our taste.  I roast about three pounds every two weeks, so at any one time, I have three types of roasted whole bean coffee in airtight jars in the freezer.  Most of the time, we think that Starbucks and other vendors have over-roasted their beans, so our coffee is much better.

The biggest danger is if you start down this road, you will be probably be ruined for other coffee.  We rarely order coffee when we go out because it just does not compare to our own.  But then again, I have a $ 2000 espresso machine, $ 400 grinder, $ 150 drip coffee brewer and $ 25 French presses to make it at home.  We each make a one-liter press of coffee in the morning before work (I usually leave before my wife does) and use the drip brewer on the weekends when we have time to relax.

So, it is an enjoyable hobby, and it has taken over from where I used to do homebrewing. 

Already have been to that site, thanks.  I figured it was just like any other hobby when it comes to the expense, you can spend a lot or a whole lot. :laugh:
It is just something I have thought about a time or two and would have to talk to SWMBO about it.  Of course I won't give up my homebrewing over this.  Just something to add to the hobby list. =D
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MillCreek

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Re: Cup 'O' Joe!
« Reply #51 on: August 23, 2011, 02:34:15 PM »
^^^ I did homebrewing for a lot of years, and it was a good way to make those chemistry degrees pay off.  But my wife does not drink beer, and we primarily drink red wine now.  It was difficult for me to drink up a five gallon batch (45 12 ounce bottles or so) before it went bad.  I now drink maybe 4-6 beers a month, and with the ready availability and relatively cheap price of very good beer in Seattle, it is now easier and cheaper for me to buy a case of Hop Czar for $ 13 than to brew my own. 
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wmenorr67

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Re: Cup 'O' Joe!
« Reply #52 on: August 23, 2011, 02:36:24 PM »
^^^ I did homebrewing for a lot of years, and it was a good way to make those chemistry degrees pay off.  But my wife does not drink beer, and we primarily drink red wine now.  It was difficult for me to drink up a five gallon batch (45 12 ounce bottles or so) before it went bad.  I now drink maybe 4-6 beers a month, and with the ready availability and relatively cheap price of very good beer in Seattle, it is now easier and cheaper for me to buy a case of Hop Czar for $ 13 than to brew my own. 

I won't argue that point.  My wife doesn't drink beer or alcohol much at all due to health reasons.  I enjoy brewing it and for what I drink it runs about the same when all the costs are factored in. 
There are five things, above all else, that make life worth living: a good relationship with God, a good woman, good health, good friends, and a good cigar.

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Re: Cup 'O' Joe!
« Reply #53 on: August 23, 2011, 02:56:32 PM »
Cafe Du Monde, straight up and black.



Chris

Great stuff with milk.  Even when it is 92deg and 90% humidity, like it was when we went to NO.

Free maxwell house coffee at work.

Surprisingly good when brewed in a decent machine (commercial Bunn).

I have discovered that Bunn makes the One True Coffee Machine.  =)

My mom has bought Bunn machines for coffee for 20 years or so.  They are tough, too.  She brews 3 pots/day and is maybe on her third machine.

Probably get me banned, but no coffee. Morning caffeine of choice is Mountain Dew.

Dew can be refreshing at times, but the thought of drinking it for breakfast sounds nasty.

...we think that Starbucks and other vendors have over-roasted their beans...

Man, isn't that the truth.  "Hey, we have crappy beans or want to use fewer beans, so lets roast the heck outta them!"  I like my strong coffee to taste like coffee, not charcoal.
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roo_ster

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P5 Guy

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Re: Cup 'O' Joe!
« Reply #54 on: August 23, 2011, 05:38:36 PM »
Peet's Sumatran.

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Re: Cup 'O' Joe!
« Reply #55 on: August 24, 2011, 12:48:07 AM »


The biggest danger is if you start down this road, you will be probably be ruined for other coffee.  We rarely order coffee when we go out because it just does not compare to our own.  But then again, I have a $ 2000 espresso machine, $ 400 grinder, $ 150 drip coffee brewer and $ 25 French presses to make it at home.  We each make a one-liter press of coffee in the morning before work (I usually leave before my wife does) and use the drip brewer on the weekends when we have time to relax.

So, it is an enjoyable hobby, and it has taken over from where I used to do homebrewing.  

'scuse me while I pop my eyeballs back into their sockets and pick my jaw up off the floor....

I mean...  Dang.  That's an expensive cup 'o' joe there, boss....

I'm glad that you really like coffee though....  And while I do have about a $150 drip brewer, I can't imagine paying that much for an espresso machine... That and the Mrs. would kill me.  

Granted, I do have her drinking a lot more coffee now than she used to.  

*thinks about it*



Hey honey....  you want an espresso machine........?
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MillCreek

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Re: Cup 'O' Joe!
« Reply #56 on: August 24, 2011, 08:43:11 AM »
We drink about five espresso drinks per week.  At an average cost of $ 3-4 per drink, the payback period was a couple of years and I have had the machine since 2001.  Plus, we can get it exactly as we like it, which is to say a nice latte or cappuccino, not coffee-flavored milk, as is sold by Starbucks.  My favorite drink is a 12 ounce latte with three shots and four ounces of properly-foamed 2% milk: no flavors, syrups, whipped cream, sprinkles or anything else.  Just fresh-roasted espresso ground, tamped and the shot pulled right then and there.  My wife likes a mocha.  And it is very popular at parties, and I may make 10-15 espresso drinks at a party for our guests.  

As you can tell, coffee is very important in the MillCreek household.

PS: you can get a very nice, semi-professional quality semi-automatic espresso machine for around $ 1200.  But you need a really good grinder for espresso, and the minimum entry cost for that is going to be around $ 300.  
« Last Edit: August 24, 2011, 11:11:09 AM by MillCreek »
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CNYCacher

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Re: Cup 'O' Joe!
« Reply #57 on: August 24, 2011, 03:11:10 PM »
If you ever are given a coffee at Millcreek's house, make sure you say "Wow, this is really good.  Is it Starbucks?"
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MillCreek

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Re: Cup 'O' Joe!
« Reply #58 on: August 24, 2011, 03:31:42 PM »
If you ever are given a coffee at Millcreek's house, make sure you say "Wow, this is really good.  Is it Starbucks?"

Time to wipe down the monitor after I snorted all over it!  LOL!
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Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
You are one lousy risk manager.

Harold Tuttle

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Re: Cup 'O' Joe!
« Reply #59 on: August 24, 2011, 04:00:58 PM »
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wmenorr67

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Re: Cup 'O' Joe!
« Reply #60 on: August 25, 2011, 02:30:03 PM »
Actually I prefer Green Bean over Starbucks here in Kuwait.  They are better and cheaper.

If you ever are given a coffee at Millcreek's house, make sure you say "Wow, this is really good.  Is it Starbucks?"
There are five things, above all else, that make life worth living: a good relationship with God, a good woman, good health, good friends, and a good cigar.

Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American Soldier.  One died for your soul, the other for your freedom.

Bacon is the candy bar of meats!

Only the dead have seen the end of war!

grislyatoms

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Re: Cup 'O' Joe!
« Reply #61 on: August 25, 2011, 02:32:46 PM »
Folger's French Roast through a Mr. Coffee. Although, there is a local outfit that is gaining my attention. "N.M. Roasters" or something. Their "Breakfast Blend" is damned good, and the way prices are going, cheaper than Folger's, for the time being at least. Shot of 1/2 'n' 1/2, a tiny bit of sugar. I cannot drink coffee black. It gives me indigestion.
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brimic

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Re: Cup 'O' Joe!
« Reply #62 on: August 25, 2011, 04:00:51 PM »
I got spoiled when our company got coffee from a local roaster, but a few years later decided to cut costs and started buying coffee from aramark which is barely drinkable.

I usually buy whole bean from costco, grind with a bur grinder and use a french press- make for a delicious drink.
Hate to admit it, but I really like McDonalds, and for $1/cup its cheap.
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MillCreek

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Re: Cup 'O' Joe!
« Reply #63 on: August 26, 2011, 11:27:23 AM »

I usually buy whole bean from costco, grind with a bur grinder and use a french press- make for a delicious drink.


I tell a lot of people that if their local Costco has a coffee roaster, they could do a lot worse than to buy roasted coffee there, keep it in an airtight container in the freezer and grind only what you need at the time of brewing.  Costco used to sell green beans (they no longer do so), and I can tell you that they buy top-notch coffee and use top-notch equipment to roast it.  Depending on the bean, they also don't roast it to death, unlike some vendors we can all name.   
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Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
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wmenorr67

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Re: Cup 'O' Joe!
« Reply #64 on: August 26, 2011, 01:23:19 PM »
I've read somewhere recently that you shouldn't refrigerate or freeze coffee because it will degrade the oils or something and effect the flavor.
There are five things, above all else, that make life worth living: a good relationship with God, a good woman, good health, good friends, and a good cigar.

Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American Soldier.  One died for your soul, the other for your freedom.

Bacon is the candy bar of meats!

Only the dead have seen the end of war!

SADShooter

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Re: Cup 'O' Joe!
« Reply #65 on: August 26, 2011, 01:26:23 PM »
I thought cold slowed oxidation. Millvcreek, please chime in.
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wmenorr67

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Re: Cup 'O' Joe!
« Reply #66 on: August 26, 2011, 01:31:15 PM »
http://www.coffeeam.com/coffee-storage.html

Quote
How to Store Coffee

There are popular misconceptions on the way roasted coffee should be stored and maintained. The enemies of roasted coffee are moisture, air, light, and heat. Storing your coffee away from them will keep it fresher longer. Therefore, an airtight container stored in a cool, dry, dark place is the best environment for your coffee.

Freezing Coffee - Not as Good as an Iced Mocha
Some people store their coffee in the freezer thinking it is going to keep the coffee fresh. Here are a couple of reasons why storing coffee in your freezer is a bad idea:
•Coffee is porous. This is a good thing for fans of flavored coffee as the beans absorb the coffee flavoring syrups and oils that are used to make flavored coffee. However, if given the chance, coffee can also absorb other things like the flavor of seafood or the moisture that your freezer produces. This moisture will in turn deteriorate the coffee and even make it taste like, well... like a freezer.
•When coffee is roasted, the beans release their oils and essences to give the coffee its distinct flavor. You'll notice these oils are more prominent on dark-roasted coffee and espresso. When you break down these oils by freezing, you are removing the flavor.
Think about it...if coffee tasted better and fresher from the freezer, then you would buy it in the frozen food section, your local coffee shop might look more like an ice cream parlor, and our power bills would be through the roof trying to maintain a meat-locker the size of a warehouse.
When to Freeze Coffee
How long does coffee stay fresh? A good rule to use is two weeks. Now, if you happen to have found a great price on bulk coffee, and you don't plan on using it within two weeks, the freezer can be an acceptable one-time shot. What this means is that once you take it out of the freezer, it should never go back in. The constant changes in temperature will wreak havoc on your coffee. The frozen moisture on your coffee will melt and be absorbed into the bean. When you put it back into the freezer, you are repeating the process. The goal in freezing coffee is to keep it away from moisture. If you have a five-pound bag of coffee to store, divide it up into weekly portions. Wrap those portions up using sealable freezer bags and plastic wrap. I've even read you should go so far as to suck out the excess air from the freezer bag using a straw! Remove the weekly portion when you need it, and store it in an air-tight container in a dry place like your pantry. Do not put it back into the freezer!
When to Refrigerate Coffee
Never, unless you are conducting a science experiment on how long it takes to ruin perfectly good coffee. The fridge is one of the absolute worst places to put coffee.
There are five things, above all else, that make life worth living: a good relationship with God, a good woman, good health, good friends, and a good cigar.

Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American Soldier.  One died for your soul, the other for your freedom.

Bacon is the candy bar of meats!

Only the dead have seen the end of war!

brimic

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Re: Cup 'O' Joe!
« Reply #67 on: August 26, 2011, 02:06:13 PM »
Quote
How long does coffee stay fresh? A good rule to use is two weeks. Now, if you happen to have found a great price on bulk coffee, and you don't plan on using it within two weeks, the freezer can be an acceptable one-time shot. What this means is that once you take it out of the freezer, it should never go back in. The constant changes in temperature will wreak havoc on your coffee. The frozen moisture on your coffee will melt and be absorbed into the bean. When you put it back into the freezer, you are repeating the process. The goal in freezing coffee is to keep it away from moisture. If you have a five-pound bag of coffee to store, divide it up into weekly portions. Wrap those portions up using sealable freezer bags and plastic wrap. I've even read you should go so far as to suck out the excess air from the freezer

That's what I do. Double bag small portions into ziplock freezer bags. It doesn't taste as good as fresh, but by the time I use a 3lb bag of cofffee up if I stored it at room temp, it wouldn't have any flavor left.
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MillCreek

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Re: Cup 'O' Joe!
« Reply #68 on: August 26, 2011, 03:08:46 PM »
The issue of storing coffee in the freezer vs. room temp vs. fridge, in airtight storage vs non-airtight storage, and whole bean vs. ground is one of the most popular flame wars in the coffee community.  And it repeats over and over and over. 

All I can tell you is what I do.  And the reason I do it is based on being trained as a chemist, reading the scanty scientific literature on this, reading the extensive experiments and reports of other home coffee roasters and most importantly, conducting my own series of experiments to examine the hypothesis of the best way to store coffee to my taste.  I have done experiments looking at the permutations of storing coffee in the freezer, fridge and room temp, airtight vs. non-airtight, whole bean vs. ground, vacuum storage vs. ambient pressure, and the kitchen freezer vs. the garage freezer (which is about 20 degrees colder).

First, my opinion on the absolute worst way to store coffee is already ground, in a non-airtight container, in the refrigerator.   

Now, my opinion on how I store coffee.  I roast coffee every two weeks.  As soon as the beans cool, I pour them into a one-liter glass airtight jar that seals with a wire clamp and rubber gasket.  The whole beans immediately go into the freezer.  They sit there in the airtight frozen dark until use.  When I brew some coffee, I take the jar out of the freezer and measure the beans into the grinder.  I immediately reseal and return the jar to the freezer.  The jar is out of the freezer for less than a minute and is open approximately 20-30 seconds while I measure the coffee out: two scoops for a triple shot of espresso, four scoops for a one-liter french press, and six scoops for the 50 ounce drip brewer.  The scoop used is 1/8 cup.  I used to measure by weight, but after measuring volumes to get the weights consistently, now use volume.  The beans are immediately ground and are usually still frozen or at least very cold when the hot water hits them.

When the jars are empty, I run them through the dishwasher before using them again.  The glass jars are not porous, block out odors and flavors, do not absorb odors and flavors and are cleaned before reuse. 

So I do not experience issues with moisture condensing on the beans; the beans absorbing odors, flavors or moisture; exposure of the beans to light or repeated temperature shocks to the beans.

Based on the taste tests of my wife and I, coffee stored this way for up to two weeks is indistinguishable from fresh-roasted, bearing in mind that fresh-roasted coffee needs to rest for 24-48 hours to fully develop its flavor.  Other experimenters have reported successful storage of up to one month using this method.

Bear in mind that taste is very subjective, and what works for me may not work for you, in terms of a taste difference. 

But I am pretty comfortable with my approach, and until I see something in the literature or on the coffee-roasting websites that provides new information, will keep on doing it this way.



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MillCreek
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Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
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Tuco

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Re: Cup 'O' Joe!
« Reply #69 on: August 26, 2011, 04:00:14 PM »
If you ever are given a coffee at Millcreek's house, make sure you say "Wow, this is really good.  Is it Starbucks?"

This is some serious gourmet s#!^

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Re: Cup 'O' Joe!
« Reply #70 on: September 07, 2011, 09:02:28 AM »
Well, I've been experimenting with the coffee to water ratio when brewing Cafe Du Monde, and so far I've liked using 2 tablespoons for 5 cups of water when I'm going to drink it black.
Andy

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Re: Cup 'O' Joe!
« Reply #71 on: September 07, 2011, 10:11:38 AM »
That's roughly what I've settled on, though I'll make it stronger from time to time.

The "8 cup" mark on my coffee pot is about 6 actual cups of water.  I use 2 heaping tablespoons for that amount (my normal M-F ration).  On the weekends, I'll make a full pot, about double the amount, and use 4 heaping tablespoons.  The increase in strength is not linear, so 4TB is potent. 

Chris

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Re: Cup 'O' Joe!
« Reply #72 on: September 07, 2011, 10:25:19 AM »
Currently drinking the office Yuban made in a multiple decade old Mr. Coffee.  The only redeeming quality is that it is free.

Stetson

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Re: Cup 'O' Joe!
« Reply #73 on: September 07, 2011, 12:12:58 PM »
I drink Kona when at home and whatever is free elsewhere.

My aunt and cousins live in Kailua-Kona, HI so I get it at normal prices, not the inflated for tourists price.  Plus, every year for my birthday and Christmas she sends me 5# bag of peaberry form whoever had a good crop.  It doesn't hurt that she was the elementary school (k-5) teacher for most of the people running the plantations.

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Re: Cup 'O' Joe!
« Reply #74 on: September 08, 2011, 05:00:47 AM »
I drink Kona when at home and whatever is free elsewhere.

My aunt and cousins live in Kailua-Kona, HI so I get it at normal prices, not the inflated for tourists price.  Plus, every year for my birthday and Christmas she sends me 5# bag of peaberry form whoever had a good crop.  It doesn't hurt that she was the elementary school (k-5) teacher for most of the people running the plantations.

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