Author Topic: What would you do in this situation?  (Read 961 times)

just Warren

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TommyGunn

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Re: What would you do in this situation?
« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2018, 12:04:48 AM »
They say "good fences make good neighbors."


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Firethorn

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Re: What would you do in this situation?
« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2018, 12:08:06 AM »
Hmm...

1.  Find where the property lines are, exactly.  The farmer has probably violated them.
2.  From some of the shots, it looks like he blocked a road/drive, investigate that.
3.  They say he nailed his fence to their existing one.  Sue for damages to fence.  And property violation.

Less ethical would be mysterious fire late at night.

Hawkmoon

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Re: What would you do in this situation?
« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2018, 12:46:30 AM »
Second rule of real estate: "If you like the view, buy it."
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Jim147

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Re: What would you do in this situation?
« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2018, 01:15:25 AM »
I would kick you in the nuts for making me read the first two paragraphs.
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Brad Johnson

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Re: What would you do in this situation?
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2018, 09:40:28 AM »
They will have a survey with lot lines. That denotes the legal boundaries as they stand, dispute or otherwise.

1) Call the police and make a report.
2) Get an estimate for removal of the fence.
3) Hire an attorney.

Most states have a treble damages clause. Whatever it costs to have the fence removed will trip the damages switch. Chances are a decent attorney will also be able to get attorney's fees and court costs rolled into the judgement.

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MechAg94

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Re: What would you do in this situation?
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2018, 09:42:50 AM »
Hmm...

1.  Find where the property lines are, exactly.  The farmer has probably violated them.
2.  From some of the shots, it looks like he blocked a road/drive, investigate that.
3.  They say he nailed his fence to their existing one.  Sue for damages to fence.  And property violation.

Less ethical would be mysterious fire late at night.
Regardless of the actual lines, from some of the pictures, the boundary was still not very far from the front of the house so they are whining about losing a view of their neighbors property.  The comments about how the dead cat wouldn't have been able to get past the fence was just way over the the top.  

What puzzles me about the fence is seeing those supports extending over to the house itself.  I was also thinking they could pull every other board out of the fence so they could see.  Just don't throw the boards away and keep and hammer and nails available to put them back on if needed.  

Lastly, I guess this is overseas so I have no idea what the laws are regarding land ownership.  Here, I would expect someone to get a surveyor to come mark out the land boundaries before doing anything else.  Maybe they have a drawing/map already showing that also.  I would have expected stuff like that to be in the HOA and developer package turned over at closing.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: What would you do in this situation?
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2018, 12:02:22 PM »
It's in England. Don't know if they have HOAs in England. I have to admit that MechAg's comment about HOAs frightens me. It seems to assume that any home you buy today will be part of an HOA. It does appear that's the way things are moving, but I never want to be part of an HOA. The concept is anathema to me. I don't need some bunch of busybodies telling me how short I have to mow my grass, whether or not I can fly an American flag, how many vehicles I can park in my driveway, and whether or not I can change my own oil on Sunday morning.

Basically, I don't see that these people have any options. They bought an expensive (to them) house on a postage stamp lot. Perhaps their only recourse is that the new fence was apparently erected using an existing fence for support. If the first fence is on their property, I would think (subject to how the laws are written in England) that they could take down their fence, and if the farmer's fence happens to fall down, that's collateral damage. Just pile up his boards in a neat pile on his side of the property line and leave them.

Around here, if I want to build a fence I have to put it on my side of the property line, unless there's an agreement with the adjoining owner to put it ON the line. The first thing they need to do is to determine whether or not they have a controlling interest in the first fence.

Of course, if they rip down the fence, there's nothing to stop the farmer from rebuilding it as a self-supporting fence 6 inches onto his own property.


Also, to be nitpicky -- the fence isn't two feet from their front door, unless Thomas is awfully thin. Looks to be more like five feet. Still not a great view, but ...
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T.O.M.

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Re: What would you do in this situation?
« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2018, 12:11:37 PM »
While the process will be complicated, because lawyers, the outcome is straight forward (or should be, but lawyers)...

1. If farmer built fence on his own property, home owners lose.  
2. If farmer built fence on homeowner's property, farmer loses.  

If I was the home owner, I would have had a survey done when I bought the property to verify there were no boundary issues.  Especially if I'm paying $200,000 + for the house and property.  I'm also having a title search done, to verify easements, right of access, etc.  It's what we did when we bought out home.  If it's as I suspect, and the home owners are a couple of yuppies pissed off because the farmer put up a fence and messed up their pretty view of nature, then they can suck it up...
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griz

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Re: What would you do in this situation?
« Reply #10 on: July 03, 2018, 12:39:25 PM »
Seems in this country every locality has at least one rule on how close you can build to the property line.  I helped move a friends shed once because he learned the hard way.  Don't they do the same thing on that side of the pond?
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HankB

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Re: What would you do in this situation?
« Reply #11 on: July 03, 2018, 12:57:57 PM »
If I was the home owner, I would have had a survey done when I bought the property to verify there were no boundary issues.  Especially if I'm paying $200,000 + for the house and property.  I'm also having a title search done, to verify easements, right of access, etc.  
No kidding.

I always thought getting a survey plat & title search done BEFORE finalizing purchase of a new house was standard procedure - at least I've always gotten one, as have my parents and grandparents. This case shows the perils of failing to do so.

Lawyers will probably get involved - and things will get even more complex if it turns out the house itself was built too close to the lot line, violating "setback" rules. (If they even have such a thing over there.)

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K Frame

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Re: What would you do in this situation?
« Reply #12 on: July 03, 2018, 01:03:24 PM »
"I always thought getting a survey plat & title search done BEFORE finalizing purchase of a new house was standard procedure"

British land law may be very different than what we're used to her in the US.

Just a quick jump through some of the British home owners advice sites seems to show that "survey" is used almost exclusively to mean the equivalent of a home inspection.

I can't find anything that specifies that a plat survey is required, but there is some really interesting stuff that appears to originate in the Norman middle ages.
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Marnoot

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Re: What would you do in this situation?
« Reply #13 on: July 03, 2018, 01:07:57 PM »
Seems in this country every locality has at least one rule on how close you can build to the property line.  I helped move a friends shed once because he learned the hard way.  Don't they do the same thing on that side of the pond?

Those rules typically apply only to structures, and not to fences. Usual restrictions on fences are maximum height, and for corner lots not blocking cars' view of cross traffic.

brimic

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Re: What would you do in this situation?
« Reply #14 on: July 03, 2018, 01:43:43 PM »
That's a nice looking fence, it would be a shame if it burned down....
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griz

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Re: What would you do in this situation?
« Reply #15 on: July 03, 2018, 02:00:53 PM »
Those rules typically apply only to structures, and not to fences. Usual restrictions on fences are maximum height, and for corner lots not blocking cars' view of cross traffic.

I'm assuming the fence is on or very close to the property line.  Given that, what i mean is it seems odd that they built the house only two feet from the line.
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AmbulanceDriver

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Re: What would you do in this situation?
« Reply #16 on: July 03, 2018, 02:19:45 PM »
Best guesstimate it looks like maybe the property dispute is somewhere around here:

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.77956,-2.4645303,239m/data=!3m1!1e3

Can't really see lot lines on google maps, but I suspect this one is going to get expensive for somebody........
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Hawkmoon

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Re: What would you do in this situation?
« Reply #17 on: July 03, 2018, 05:38:29 PM »
Sometimes even a survey isn't conclusive. Most of you have probably heard that there's no money to be made if you're the only lawyer in town. Sometimes surveys don't agree, just like lawyers. I've had several real-world examples.

Case 1: Some years ago I was hired to design an energy-efficient house for a single guy, on an existing lot in a rural community. First hint that this wasn't a good plan was that the street had been subdivided ten or fifteen years prior and this was the only lot that hadn't sold, but ... my client had already bought the lot, so we proceeded from there. Skipping over several other issues, we had the subdivision map -- which was a legal survey, signed and sealed by a licensed land surveyor. I went out with the client to walk the site and try to figure out where we wanted to situate the house. Conveniently, at the right side of the parcel (viewed from the street) the property line coincided with a telephone pole, so it was easy to orient ourselves.

And as I stood at the telephone pole, something didn't look right. The adjoining house looked MUCH too close to the property line. I recommended to my client that he have a new survey made. He did. Turns out, the neighboring house was in violation of the zoning ordinances for that town. The side yard setback was supposed to be a minimum of (IIRC) 25 feet. The house was actually about five feet from the line. Apparently, whoever had laid out the foundation used a compass, and either forget or didn't know to correct from magnetic north to true north. Not only was the adjacent house much too close to (but not over) the property line, their undergound electric and telephone trench was ON my client's property. At that point, my client's attorney told my client that I had done him a favor, and the lawyer recommended that the guy sell the lot and walk away. He did -- he bought an old colonial house near the center of town.

Case 2: I was, for awhile, chair of my home town's planning and zoning commission. We had an application before us to subdivide a large-ish parcel into several building lots. All subdivisions in this town are subject to public hearing. When the hearing was opened up to public comment, a woman stood up and said that part of the land shown in the subdivision was actually hers, and she had a survey to prove it. Sure enough. The application had a survey, by a licensed land surveyor, and this woman had a survey, by a different licensed land surveyor, and they didn't show the same thing. We had to tell her (unfortunately for her) that we couldn't help her. Our job was to determine whether or not an application complies with the zoning regulations. We were not a court with any authority to adjudicate disputes over ownership of property.

Don't know how that one ever played out.
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