Wife and I went to Pearl Harbor last week

[zxcvbob]

If you ever go, bring a good handkerchief or some tissues with you cuz your nose will be running like a faucet.

There's one little area (I don't remember what it's called; it's halfway between the Valor in the Pacific building and the USS Bowfin) where there are little monuments to all the submarines lost in the Pacific, arraigned in kind of a circle.  It gave a brief history of each boat and then a little memorial about "on eternal patrol".  It was obvious that much thought went into making each one unique, but there were so many that they all sounded the same after a while.  I could only get through about half of them.

I was struck by how many people were totally oblivious to where they were.  Laughing and taking selfies on the USS Arizona memorial.  I heard someone singing Happy Birthday To You at the VITP center.  I don't think it was one of the survivors who was there that day.

I didn't know any of the 1100+ names on the wall at the Arizona, but somebody knows them.  I didn't take many pictures; it didn't seem appropriate.  I think I took a pic of the wall with the list of names, and one of the bow of the Missouri as it stands guard over the Arizona.

I don't ever want to go back there again, but I'm glad I went once.  That is all.

[Boomhauer]

I was struck by how many people were totally oblivious to where they were.  Laughing and taking selfies on the USS Arizona memorial.

People don't have any respect...

[TommyGunn]

I vacationed in Hawaii in 1987 and made a point of visiting the Pearl Harbor Memorial.  It was a very somber event, a place where such horror occured amongst such beauty.....

I would recommend that anyone going to Hawaii ought to visit the Memorial.   It's part of our history and precipitated our entrance into World War Two.  
IIRC the tour guide said the average age of the sailors who died on the USS Arizona was 16.
That is too young ... to meet such a horrific end.
 

[Brad Johnson]

Yeah, was there in 1985. I noticed that the ferry craft got more and more quiet as we approached the memorial dock. It was dead silent when we disembarked. I was in my late teens but it hit me. Hard.

Same thing with Arlington National Cemetary a year later. There's a feeling there. Nothing you can explain or describe. It's just there.

Brad

[230RN]

Wife1 and I visited in the early 80s, and were very disappointed that it was closed for painting and re-decorating and such.  We decided to take the boat tour anyhow, and the boat got close enough that we could see the turrets and the oil slick from the remaining fuel.

The tour guide pointed those things out as he navigated around the wreck pretty close.  I guess they gave the tour folks a special dispensation since it was closed, and allowed us to get pretty darned close.

Very saddening, especially to think that there were sailors down there under that greenish water.

One thing that kind of bothered me is that there were some Oriental folks on the boat who seemed to be enjoying themselves.

That still bothers me.  They weren't being loud or obnoxious, but would kind of whisper back and forth with grins.

Otherwise, Hawaii was very enjoyable.

--Edited to change date.

[vaskidmark]

Wife1 and I visited in the early 70s, and very disappointed that it was closed for painting and re-decorating and such.  We decided to take the boat tour anyhow, and the boat got close enough that we could see the turrets and the oil slick from the remaining fuel.

The tour guide pointed those things out as he navigated around the wreck pretty close.  I guess they gave the tour folks a special dispensation since it was closed, and allowed us to get pretty darned close.

Very saddening, especially to think that there were sailors down there under that greenish water.

One thing that kind of bothered me is that there were some Oriental folks on the boat who seemed to be enjoying themselves.

That still bothers me.  They weren't being loud or obnoxious, but would kind of whisper back and forth with grins.

Otherwise, Hawaii was very enjoyable.

Not trying to make excuses, but Orientals smile when they are uncomfortable emotionally.  It became a stereotype of the "sneaky Oriental" well before WWII, but realy beame entrenched then.  Also, the Japanese seem to have an almost pathological need to take pictures of themselves everywhere they go outside of Japan.

My major complaint is that both as a society and as a government Japan continues to refuse to admit culpability for the many things that their military did.  I'm not willing to call for the tearing down of the Yasukuni Shrine http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasukuni_Shrine even though some of the biggest war criminals (and the ones that MacArthur refused to allow to be prosecuted) are interred there.  OTOH, if you talk with an individual Japanese (who knows that the "official" version of the history of Japanese military incursions in the 20th Century is a whitewash) they will express remorse for the failure to follow diplomatic protocol that resulted in the sneak attack on Pearl Harbor (as opposed to a legitimate attack following a declaration of war).  Sadly, much of that is blaming the Japanese Embassy staff for screwing up the translations of the coded messages.  As one elderly Japanese explained it to me, when the ambassador learned that the attack took place before the message was delivered the ambassador and his staff should have comitted seppuku in atonement for their failure.

stay safe.

[TommyGunn]

Wife1 and I visited in the early 70s, and very disappointed that it was closed for painting and re-decorating and such.  We decided to take the boat tour anyhow, and the boat got close enough that we could see the turrets and the oil slick from the remaining fuel.

The tour guide pointed those things out as he navigated around the wreck pretty close.  I guess they gave the tour folks a special dispensation since it was closed, and allowed us to get pretty darned close.

Very saddening, especially to think that there were sailors down there under that greenish water.

One thing that kind of bothered me is that there were some Oriental folks on the boat who seemed to be enjoying themselves.

That still bothers me.  They weren't being loud or obnoxious, but would kind of whisper back and forth with grins.

Otherwise, Hawaii was very enjoyable.

Well, on the tour I took the tourguide said, in reality, there's nothing (in terms of human remains) below.  The explosion lifted the ship out of the water and it took a few minutes to sink ....human remains would have been literally cremated.   

[sumpnz]

Well, on the tour I took the tourguide said, in reality, there's nothing (in terms of human remains) below.  The explosion lifted the ship out of the water and it took a few minutes to sink ....human remains would have been literally cremated.   

Didn't the rescue divers respond to knocking for a couple days trying to get to initial survivors?

[TommyGunn]

Didn't the rescue divers respond to knocking for a couple days trying to get to initial survivors?

On one of the other ships that had capsized, yes, there were survivors in airpockets, some of whom were rescued.
But not on the U.S.S. Arizona ....

[T.O.M.]

Wife and I went in 2007.  Visited the Bowfin and the Missouri as well.  Struck by how majy Japanese tourists we saw at the Arizona, and the absence of any Japanese tourists at the Missouri.

[zxcvbob]

Didn't the rescue divers respond to knocking for a couple days trying to get to initial survivors?

On one of the other ships that had capsized, yes, there were survivors in airpockets, some of whom were rescued.
But not on the U.S.S. Arizona ....

I think that was the Oklahoma.

[zxcvbob]

Wife and I went in 2007.  Visited the Bowfin and the Missouri as well.  Struck by how majy Japanese tourists we saw at the Arizona, and the absence of any Japanese tourists at the Missouri.

I can't blame them for not wanting to go aboard the MO.

[lee n. field]

I can't blame them for not wanting to go aboard the MO.

?

Ah, yes.

[never_retreat]

We went in September, but not out on the boat ride to the Arizona.
She shear quantity of Asians was quite annoying. (And I usually don't hate Asians)
I had to really contain my self from yelling we won you lost.

[zxcvbob]

We went in September, but not out on the boat ride to the Arizona.
She shear quantity of Asians was quite annoying. (And I usually don't hate Asians)
I had to really contain my self from yelling we won you lost.

Maybe they were there to pay their respects.

[BobR]

Maybe they were there to pay their respects.

Unlikely, but maybe. When I was out there a couple of decades (+) ago and there was a group of Asians (all ages) chattering and snickering to out right laughter I got just a little pissed. Maybe it was the uniform (USN CPO) or the tone of my voice, but when I was done you could hear a pin drop, and not just the Asians stopped farking around. I don't recall if the Memorial belonged to the Park Service then or not.

This is a tiny portion of the circle of lost boats that zxcvbob mentioned, along with the Arizona Memorial and the Mighty MO at Ford Island. This was last Oct. Next time we go I plan on at least a good portion of a day on Ford Island.



From inside the USS Arizona Memorial.



It is a very somber place, one thing that irked me was the lack of respect by the males wearing hats, mine came off and stayed off during my time on board the memorial. Not so a lot of others.

bob

[zxcvbob]

There were a lot of hat-wearers when I was there too.  Most of them plenty old enough to know better, so I can't blame that on the "younger generation"  

BTW, was the "Mighty MO" the last US flagged battleship in active service, or was that the USS Iowa?  I assume there are none left on the registry, but perhaps a very few still in good enough shape that they could be recommisioned.

[Scout26]

I've been to Pearl Harbor twice.  It is heartrending.  Also going to the National Cemetery of the Pacific (aka "The Punchbowl') is sobering as well.

I need to take Robert there, he's old enough to understand.  Especially since he's been to Arlington now twice.  (Plus it really hit home when I took him to visit the graves of LTG Waller, who had been my Division Commander and Jay Haydon, who was a friend of mine from when we served together in Baumholder.  We also went and visited the grave of his hero, Audie Murphy and watched the changing of the guard at the Tomb.)

[zxcvbob]

They've pulled up all the crosses at Punchbowl and replaced them with ground-level granite monuments.  I understand the reasoning for it even if I don't agree with it, but it totally ruins the effect.  You look out across the field now and it looks like a golf course    

So go on Memorial Day when the graves will all be decorated. (before so many little flags offends somebody, and...)

ETA: Wikipedia says the crosses and stars-of-David were replaced in 1951.  It still looked more like a golf course than a national cemetery when went there.

[French G.]

I don't know if I could go, every time I go to something like that I end up in a pretty kill 'em all mood for awhile. Maybe I don't do sad well. It's been 20 years since I went to the Holocaust museum, maybe it's almost time for a visit, or not.

[Boomhauer]

I don't know if I could go

Personally I don't like going to memorials such as the Arizona, nor would I go to Arlington. I just doesn't feel right going to them due to them being the final resting places of people.

I dated a Jewish girl who was planning to go to Europe and while over there, see a concentration camp. She wanted me to come with her but I told her I could not bear to go to such a place.

Regular museums, no issue with going to them.

[zxcvbob]

Personally I don't like going to memorials such as the Arizona, nor would I go to Arlington. I just doesn't feel right going to them due to them being the final resting places of people.

I dated a Jewish girl who was planning to go to Europe and while over there, see a concentration camp. She wanted me to come with her but I told her I could not bear to go to such a place.

Regular museums, no issue with going to them.

When Wife was a little girl (that was a long time ago) her parents took her to Auschwitz.  She screamed and cried the whole time; she says it scared her to death -- she thought she was in Hell.  That sounds like an appropriate reaction to me.  Maybe she was the only one who "got it".

I would not take my kids to a concentration camp.  I don't know if I could go there myself.

[RoadKingLarry]

I made a couple of TDY trip to Hawaii. I had the "pleasure" of staying in the old barracks on Ford island. Somewhere in my stuff I have a bunch of pictures taken of the Arizona memorial from Ford Island as well as some of the Utah.
I'll see if I can find them and get a few scanned in.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Utah_(BB-31)

[Devonai]

I must have walked right by the submarine memorial between the Bowfin and the ferry launch.  I don't know how I missed it.

[Scout26]

I've been to Dachau 5 or 6 times, Bergen-Belsen once.  While Dachau made my skin crawl, Bergen-Belsen scared the crap out of me. (and put me in a "Kill all the Bastards" frame of mind), I could feel the evil in everything there.