Live edge wood countertops

[sumpnz]

We need to eventually replace our countertops.  Currently have corian and it’s ok, but starting to have problems and generally looking dated.  I have a number of Western Big Leaf Maple logs I’ll be chainsaw milling and SWMBO wants to use some for replacement countertops. 

What would you all recommend for thickness of the rough sawn slabs?  My initial thought was to mill them to 3” thick so that I can count on 2.25-2.5” final installed thickness.  What would you all want for a final thickness, and is 0.5-0.75” enough allowance for flattening and sanding the slabs?  They’ll be air dried outside stacked with stickers of course, and I’ll probably use ratchet straps to help hold them flat.  WBLM dries faster than, say, oak or walnut, or even hard maple.  A year should have them around if not under 20% moisture content.

The counters make two 45deg turns.  In between the turns the current counters are a straight edge on the outside but for the new ones she wants a curved edge.  Obviously this makes it not possible to maintain a live edge on that side.  Seems like it would look dumb to have a live edge except on the curved edge so I’m planning to trim the edge on the outside and only maintain the live edge on the inside (kitchen facing) edge. 

The logs aren’t large enough make the counters from a single slab (42-43” minimum counter width, not sure in the curved section, probably around 48-54” max), so my intention is to book-match slabs.  Even for the max width section should easily be able to cover that with 2 slabs.  Logs vary from 22-34” diameter.  My chainsaw mill can do up to 32” width of cut (31” works better) so the largest logs I’ll have to skim off at least 2-3” from one side, but that’s ok because I’d be trimming at least one live edge per slab anyway just to make a book-match.

I do plan to use C-channels on the underside to help it resist cupping or warping over time and seasonal changes.  I’ll also probably jerry-rig a kiln to finish the drying process so the wood will be as stable as possible.  And I’ll aim for slabs as close to quarter sawn as possible, though interesting figure will take priority.

The logs have been sitting for 20-21 months by now, so I’m hoping for good spalting.  However that is obviously also the start of rotting, so any tips on how to stabilize/harden such huge pieces would be appreciated.  Not the kind of thing I can soak with Cactus Juice in a vacuum pot and then bake in a toaster oven to cure.  Might have to go with a penetrating 2-part epoxy, but would like to know about any worthwhile alternatives.

And any tips on a good finish are appreciated.  Hoping to avoid epoxy as the finish.  I don’t have anything against filling voids, cracks, etc with epoxy (though I can’t stand the gaudy colors so popular in “river” tables right now, a clear or black tint or anything that looks mostly natural is far better imho) but really would prefer a finish that allows the texture of the wood to be like wood, not plastic.  I’m leaning heavily towards a hard wax oil like Rubio Monocoat right now.

[RoadKingLarry]

I think it would probably look freaking awesome but I would be concerned with durability in a kitchen particularly around the sink area.

As for drying them your plan should work. Around here though the insects would have a field day with it though.

[sumpnz]

Yeah, durability around the sink is obviously the biggest concern with wood countertops.  Followed closely by dents and dings.  That’s partly why I’m attracted to Rubio Monocoat for the finish.  I won’t have to strip off the entire finish and redo the whole counter to repair a spot.

[K Frame]

My biggest concern with a monolithic slab would be racking and cracking over time.

Any thoughts on using thinner slabs and laminating them onto a more stable subsurface?

[sumpnz]

I could do that, but then I’d have to either cut off the live edge and the glue it back on after planing the rest down to thickness (so it still looked as thick).  And then I’d be wasting a lot of nice maple on the planer (don’t have a bandsaw capable of resawing 22”+ wide boards) and then spending a lot of money on a substrate.

The C-channels I mentioned are meant to give it that same stability.  Just need to use enough of them.  As long as you have slotted holes in the cross-grain direction you can let the wood still move with seasons without cupping or warping.  At the miter joints there are dog-bone connectors that allow for a glueless joint that will still stay tight.  With a blind spline or biscuits or dominoes the joint should also stay pretty flat.

[K Frame]

I've heard of mixed results with C channels. It could be that not enough were used, or weren't used in the right positions, but I'd be leery.

[sumpnz]

The problems I’ve seen with C-channels was mostly from them not having slotted holes.  The wood tries to expand/contract but can’t if the holes aren’t slotted and causes a split.  Also over-torquing the bolts which can prevent the bolt head from slipping in the slotted hole will have the same effect.

Not having enough, or if they’re too short, would certainly also cause problems.

And, it sounds obvious, but if they’re going with the grain instead of across the grain they won’t do almost anything besides add weight and cost and extra work.

The other things that will help with stability are kiln drying the wood so there’s as little movement as possible, aiming for as close to quartersawn as possible (for flat sawn logs those will be the slabs from close to the middle of the log) while avoiding the pith, and book-matching the slabs.  What book-matching does is it gets the growth rings going in opposite directions between the two slabs (so if you’re looking at the end grain the rings will be “smiling” on one and “frowning” on the other).  The effect of that is much more pronounced with more typical 6+ boards edge glued together to make a wide surface than with just 2, but it’s still going to help a little.

[tokugawa]

You obviously know what you are doing.

Check the relative humidity in your house in the winter, it may be surprisingly low. Ours got down to 15% in Puget Sound. Air dried fir beams 70 years old still shrank 1/4".

Oil finish is the way to go IMO. Easy to repair. And the inevitable nicks and so forth will look normally worn.

How are you going to align the top at the miters? Spline?

I am not sure a c channel will help- it is going to move radically less than the wood, and if the screws hang up in the slots it could induce a bend, rather than prevent it. I would quarter-saw the wood, finish both sides, soak the end grain and let it float on clips.

[sumpnz]

You obviously know what you are doing.

Check the relative humidity in your house in the winter, it may be surprisingly low. Ours got down to 15% in Puget Sound. Air dried fir beams 70 years old still shrank 1/4".

Oil finish is the way to go IMO. Easy to repair. And the inevitable nicks and so forth will look normally worn.

How are you going to align the top at the miters? Spline?

I am not sure a c channel will help- it is going to move radically less than the wood, and if the screws hang up in the slots it could induce a bend, rather than prevent it. I would quarter-saw the wood, finish both sides, soak the end grain and let it float on clips.

According to the weather station we set up back in September our indoor humidity has ranged from about 30-60% with most of the winter at 35-45%.  I have not validated/calibrated it however.

I’ll probably do splines at the miters, unless I can get a domino cutter.  Those would be a lot easier than a spline.  I do have a biscuit joiner but for this I’m thinking the biscuits won’t have the shear strength to keep the miters flat.

C-channels definitely need a proper technique.  But I think it’s worth the risks.  I might change my mind later though.

[K Frame]

I have to admit, while I'm leery about something like this, I think wooden countertops are incredibly good looking.

But, again, I'm leery of their stability, especially near the dishwasher or the sink.

If you decide to go this route, definitely take pictures of the fabrication process and the finished product.

[cordex]

I have to admit, while I'm leery about something like this, I think wooden countertops are incredibly good looking.

Yeah, that's where I am.  Sounds like sumpnz has thought it through, but it just seems that a relatively soft and rot-vulnerable wood like Western Big Leaf Maple isn't going to have much in the way of longevity.  Still, I think it's going to look spectacular when he puts it in.

Definitely second the request for pictures.

[K Frame]

My ideal for countertops is soapstone. I think it looks spectacular.

When I had my first apartment with the ex in DC, the painting contractors who painted during the flip painted... everything... including the wood countertops in the kitchen that were part of the floor to ceiling cabinets (1920s era building).

I stripped the paint off the countertops and refinished them with a light stain and polyurethane. Looked fantastic.

I'm sure the second we vacated those countertops were repainted.

[tokugawa]

Miters have an inherent problem- as the wood moves, the miters will open-at the toe if expanding, and on the inside if shrinking- (if the other end is fixed, like a picture frame.)

  With miter bolted tight, and the wood moves, the location of the countertop on the cabinet at the ends will change. Best to allow some float there.

 Keeping the wood in the house to equalize for a while after drying and before joinery may help.

[Brad Johnson]

I love the look of live-edge but just can't come to grips with the durability issue in kitchens.

We use our kitchen. A lot. Even solid surface materials take a beating. Something soft as solid lumber with an epoxy finish just won't stand up. That being said, if I were going for some kind of rustic look, I'd jump all over it. Distressing from use would contribute to the overall look and feel. My brother did that and it's fantastic. For our house it would just look like an old beat up counter in a new kitchen.

For a more modern aesthetic, I'd be tempted to go with some type of hardier solid surface. There are also some impressively real-looking laminates now.

Brad

[Kingcreek]

If using an oil finish, BLO is thin and penetrates well, follow with a hard wax oil. Fidde’s is outrageous expensive but excellent and covers a lot and is food safe when dry (mineral spirits have evaporated out by then). No experience with cheaper options.

[sumpnz]

I love the look of live-edge but just can't come to grips with the durability issue in kitchens.

We use our kitchen. A lot. Even solid surface materials take a beating. Something soft as solid lumber with an epoxy finish just won't stand up. That being said, if I were going for some kind of rustic look, I'd jump all over it. Distressing from use would contribute to the overall look and feel. My brother did that and it's fantastic. For our house it would just look like an old beat up counter in a new kitchen.

For a more modern aesthetic, I'd be tempted to go with some type of hardier solid surface. There are also some impressively real-looking laminates now.

Brad

By the time I get them done Thing 1 will be off to college and Thing 2 will be getting close.  And hopefully Things 3-4 will be mature enough to not pound stuff too badly on the counters.  We shall see.  Perhaps I’ll come to regret the choice.  But by then we’ll be in a position to afford granite or something like that.

[sumpnz]

Miters have an inherent problem- as the wood moves, the miters will open-at the toe if expanding, and on the inside if shrinking- (if the other end is fixed, like a picture frame.)

  With miter bolted tight, and the wood moves, the location of the countertop on the cabinet at the ends will change. Best to allow some float there.

 Keeping the wood in the house to equalize for a while after drying and before joinery may help.

This shows the miter joining method I plan to use.

https://youtu.be/zQxNQdj3f7E

[sumpnz]

If using an oil finish, BLO is thin and penetrates well, follow with a hard wax oil. Fidde’s is outrageous expensive but excellent and covers a lot and is food safe when dry (mineral spirits have evaporated out by then). No experience with cheaper options.

According to Prof Google, the hard wax oils really work best applied to bare wood, and pre-oiling with something like BLO will actually reduce the effectiveness and durability of the hard wax oil.  This is down to the chemistry of the hard wax oils and the wood.

[French G.]

I make a wood polish that is just BLO and my beeswax. Amazing how durable my oak flooring has been. 1940s oak covered with 1950s tile that was ripped up and covered with 1970s carpet. Beautiful floor no idea what was wrong with people back then.

[Kingcreek]

According to Prof Google, the hard wax oils really work best applied to bare wood, and pre-oiling with something like BLO will actually reduce the effectiveness and durability of the hard wax oil.  This is down to the chemistry of the hard wax oils and the wood.

Ok. Good to know.
I’ve used both on tool handles and gunstocks with good results and HWO alone on my floor (100 year old oak barn beams milled for flooring) and it’s been great. In my crosscut testing BLO penetrates more than HWO but the HWO leaves a harder finish at the surface.

[tokugawa]

This shows the miter joining method I plan to use.

https://youtu.be/zQxNQdj3f7E

 That will work perfectly.

 What I was trying to convey was the angle will change with humidity variations- so in the video, they make a 90 degree joint- if it drys out, it will be maybe 91 degrees- or whatever- the end of the counter top needs to float on clips or the joint will either pull apart, or the cabinet will deform. I have use those little figure 8 screw clips with success, they pivot to take up movement.

[HankB]

If using an oil finish, BLO is thin and penetrates well, follow with a hard wax oil. Fidde’s is outrageous expensive but excellent and covers a lot and is food safe when dry (mineral spirits have evaporated out by then). No experience with cheaper options.

Most BLO you'd typically buy at a big box store isn't actually boiled - it simulates boiled linseed oil properties by having some drying chemicals added. These chemicals (something like Japan drier) usually include heavy metals that are NOT food safe, so I'd be reluctant to use them on kitchen counters, tables, cutting boards, or anything else involving contact with food.

[Kingcreek]

Most BLO you'd typically buy at a big box store isn't actually boiled - it simulates boiled linseed oil properties by having some drying chemicals added. These chemicals (something like Japan drier) usually include heavy metals that are NOT food safe, so I'd be reluctant to use them on kitchen counters, tables, cutting boards, or anything else involving contact with food.

I know the Fidde's HWO I have states it is safe for use on wooden toys for toddlers once dry.

[French G.]

Not for counters but for other wood surfaces food grade mineral oil mixed with beeswax works wonders. I make a lot of that too.

[sumpnz]

Not for counters but for other wood surfaces food grade mineral oil mixed with beeswax works wonders. I make a lot of that too.

Practically every cutting board video on YouTube does some version of that finish.