Author Topic: more on sandusky  (Read 19358 times)

gunsmith

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Re: more on sandusky
« Reply #25 on: November 27, 2011, 01:33:05 AM »
I think Sandusky is attracted to little boys, a reporter asked him point blank & it was obvious the answer was yes because it took him a few minutes to say no. ( if you hear the tape you know what I mean )

Sandusky raped little boys because he was sexually attracted to them.
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Re: more on sandusky
« Reply #26 on: November 27, 2011, 04:55:11 AM »
That still doesn't equate to "homosexual". All of the gays I know find the concept of sex with a minor repugnant
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Re: more on sandusky
« Reply #27 on: November 27, 2011, 11:40:42 AM »
That still doesn't equate to "homosexual". All of the gays I know find the concept of sex with a minor repugnant

I don't think gunsmith is claiming that.  I think he's responding to the "rape is not about sex" assertions.
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Re: more on sandusky
« Reply #28 on: November 27, 2011, 02:36:37 PM »

3. How long do we pretend that cultural changes over the last few decades did not contribute to #2?


One thing that has changed for the better is, present case notwithstanding,  that this kind of stuff gets reported more often.  In the past, sexual abuse allegations would have been brushed under the rug or the victim would have been branded a liar.  Just listen to the stories about people that were victimized 30+ years ago.  Most either didn't report it because of a fear of retaliation or did report it and no one believed them. 

Not that I would ever want to be a victim of sexual abuse, but if I would much rather be a victim now than I would have 30 or 40 years ago.
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gunsmith

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Re: more on sandusky
« Reply #29 on: November 27, 2011, 04:15:16 PM »
I don't think gunsmith is claiming that.  I think he's responding to the "rape is not about sex" assertions.

Kind of, I'm wary of the current politically correct thought on the subject.

In some cases I agree that rape is about power and control, like prison punishment rape or like that case in Afghanistan where there was a gang rape punishment of a girl for her family doing something "wrong". I think in other cases that rape is lust gone crazy, still a horrible crime of course.
Politicians and bureaucrats are considered productive if they swarm the populace like a plague of locust, devouring all substance in their path and leaving a swath of destruction like a firestorm. The technical term is "bipartisanship".
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Ron

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Re: more on sanduskypederast
« Reply #30 on: November 27, 2011, 04:53:16 PM »
Assuming the reports are true, yes, Sandusky is a homosexual.

Not your typical homosexual but a pederast homosexual.

Pederasts violate someones rights when they exercise their predilections. They deserve swift and unequivocal punishment.      
« Last Edit: November 27, 2011, 06:51:55 PM by Ron »
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MicroBalrog

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Re: more on sanduskypederast
« Reply #31 on: November 27, 2011, 07:37:11 PM »
Assuming the reports are true, yes, Sandusky is a homosexual.

Not your typical homosexual but a pederast homosexual.

Pederasts violate someones rights when they exercise their predilections. They deserve swift and unequivocal punishment.      

I think the word you're looking for is 'pedophile' but yes.

The point is, increased freedom for regular homosexuals has little bearing on this incident.
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Ron

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Re: more on sanduskypederast
« Reply #32 on: November 27, 2011, 07:46:14 PM »
I think the word you're looking for is 'pedophile' but yes.

The point is, increased freedom for regular homosexuals has little bearing on this incident.

No, pederast is the word I meant to use.

If anything, "homosexual" was somewhat redundant.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2011, 07:49:24 PM by Ron »
For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse. Because knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, and didn’t give thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

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« Reply #33 on: November 28, 2011, 05:07:22 PM »
Folks, no need to parrot politically correct/expedient/convenient bromides here.  I have little power to effect cultural reality either way.  The least we can do is be honest about that reality in the face of mutual powerlessness to change society from behind our keyboards.

Boiled down to its essentials, my thesis for the general case is that increased tolerance for homosexuality will result in more minor male children (AKA, "boys") being raped by homosexual male men.  The specific case is that this may have been a factor contributing to the years-long delay exposing Sandusky and, consequently, allowing him to rape more boys.

The former, general case, is pretty standard fare, economics & social science wise on other topics, but is not trumpeted for political reasons by most.  The latter is speculation based on the former.

Perhaps an example of another sensitive topic might provide illumination?  So, let us talk guns.



Here is a thesis analogous to that above:
Increased tolerance(1) for firearms will result in more innocent people being killed by violent criminals with firearms.

But, "No!" we can hear adherents to the Sainted John Lott hollering.  "More guns  = less crime."

Maybe.  Maybe not.  If am to to discount Michael Bellesiles's negative thesis WRT American gun ownership & crime due to inability to provide the raw data, I (to be both consistent & honest) must also discount John Lott's positive thesis WRT American gun ownership to inability to look at the raw data.  Both had "hard drive failures" of some sort, preventing others from looking at their raw data.

We can compare per capita violent homicides with firearms against those of similar countries with strict(er) gun control (less tolerance for firearms) and control for race/income/etc.  Guess what?  We (the USA, with greater tolerance for firearms) have more violent deaths with firearms, no matter how you slice the data(2) and (3).   

Despite this, there is still relatively strong tolerance for firearms in the USA.  Put simply, many folks value their reasons for tolerating firearms more than the lives of those violently killed with them. 

What reasons?
* Tradition
* Liberty
* Bulwark against tyranny
* Personal protection against criminals
* Perhaps because the availability of firearms reduces murders with other weapons.
* Etc.

One, some, or all of these or other reasons weigh more than the lives of people murdered with firearms for America.

But, this talk about "America" is the usual dilution of responsibility of the individual in the group.  Let us bring it closer to home and own our slice of individual responsibility for these deaths.

Quote
"I am willing to see some number of innocent people murdered with a firearm for the sake of tradition."

"I am willing to see some number of innocent people murdered with a firearm for the sake of liberty."

"I am willing to see some number of innocent people murdered with a firearm for the sake of republican government."

"I am willing to see some number of innocent people murdered with a firearm for the sake of that 1/10000 chance that I might be attacked by a criminal."

You get the idea.

In this world, all things come at a cost.  All actions will have consequences.  Folks in Washington can pretend this is not so, but I'd hope we here are adults enough to realize this.

To the extent that you are in favor of tolerance toward firearms, how would you finish this sentence:
"I am willing to see some number of innocent people murdered with a firearm for the sake of..."





If you've been paying attention, you can see the shape of this shinola sandwich to come.

Homosexuality, with Lawrence v Texas, has been decriminalized.  Homosexuality, at least in the dominant America culture, is more & more tolerated.

Increased tolerance for homosexuality will result in more minor male children (AKA, "boys") being raped by homosexual male men.

Previous American intolerance for homosexuality did not eliminate it any more than it eliminated handguns in, say, the UK.  But, that intolerance did reduce the number of people willing to pay the increased costs (money, status, etc.) of homosexual practices.

Even if we believe the absurd notion that male homosexuality and the rape of boys is wholly unrelated, the incidence of boys being raped by practicing homosexual men would likewise be reduced, given that only some small percentage, X, of practicing male homosexuals engage in pederasty.  Are twice as many men, in this more tolerant America, willing to engage in homosexuality than in earlier years?  Make that roughly 2X the number of raped boys.

Whether America is willing to admit it or not, America is willing, for some reason(s), to tolerate some number of boys being raped (who otherwise would not be raped) for the sake of tolerance of homosexuality.

What reasons?
* Liberty
* Sexual satisfaction
* Emotional satisfaction
* Etc.

But, again, this talk about "America" is the usual dilution of responsibility of the individual in the group.  Let us bring it closer to home and own our slice of individual responsibility for these rapes.


Quote
"I am willing to see some number of innocent boys raped by homosexual men for the sake of liberty."

"I am willing to see some number of innocent boys raped by homosexual men for the sake of sexual satisfaction."

"I am willing to see some number of innocent boys raped by homosexual men for the sake of emotional satisfaction."

You get the idea.

In this world, all things come at a cost.  All actions will have consequences.  Folks in Washington can pretend this is not so, but I'd hope we here are adults enough to realize this.

To the extent that you are in favor of tolerance toward homosexuality, how would you finish this sentence:
"I am willing to see some number of innocent boys raped by homosexual men for the sake of..."







(1) "Tolerance" in both cases meaning decriminalization, ease of access, lessening of social opprobrium, etc. and an overall lowering of the cost/price.

(2) Violent deaths by other means and/or other violent crimes are not suppressed by a low tolerance for firearms.

(3) This is despite the illegal traffic of firearms in theses countries.  Yes, firearms are theoretically available for purchase anywhere on the globe, but gov't restriction and/or lack of tolerance drives local prices so high that the practical availability is significantly reduced.  There are also this strange breed of folk who refrain from illegal acts just because they are illegal.
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roo_ster

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Re: more on sandusky
« Reply #34 on: November 28, 2011, 05:59:18 PM »
I promise not to duck.

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Re: more on sandusky
« Reply #35 on: November 28, 2011, 06:09:47 PM »
Using your logic, heterosexuality leads to men raping little girls.  You just hate the gays that much, huh?
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Re: more on sandusky
« Reply #36 on: November 28, 2011, 06:10:48 PM »
sandusky has a wife and kids   at best hes bi.  same with fines.
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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gunsmith

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Re: more on sandusky
« Reply #37 on: November 28, 2011, 06:58:28 PM »
Using your logic, heterosexuality leads to men raping little girls.  You just hate the gays that much, huh?

I don't see that he hates gays, just that he likes writing.  :lol: >:D [popcorn]
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Strings

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Re: more on sandusky
« Reply #38 on: November 28, 2011, 07:51:19 PM »
>Increased tolerance for homosexuality will result in more minor male children (AKA, "boys") being raped by homosexual male men.<

Heh, heh, heh...

In actuality, there have always been boys being sexually assaulted by men. However, in days past, most victims wouldn't come forward out of fear of being labeled homosexual themselves. So, in fact, the increased tolerance of homosexuality has led to better treatment for the victims and more certain prosecution of the perpetrators...
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Re: more on sandusky
« Reply #39 on: November 28, 2011, 08:06:29 PM »
The one good thing with this debacle is that now, out of fear, others are coming clean.

I believe Syracuse just fired their b-ball coach.

Seems that investigation has been going nowhere, and now they are scared shiiteless.

I will bet that there will be more instances slinking into the news.....
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Strings

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Re: more on sandusky
« Reply #40 on: November 28, 2011, 08:15:55 PM »
You're probably correct. I'd be willing to place money on the fact that there are more victims...
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mtnbkr

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Re: more on sandusky
« Reply #41 on: November 28, 2011, 08:19:42 PM »
What is it about college sports and homos?  Must be all that showering together and butt slapping.  Yeah, male bonding, rigggghhhhhtttt.

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MicroBalrog

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Re: more on sandusky
« Reply #42 on: November 29, 2011, 01:22:23 AM »
Quote
We can compare per capita violent homicides with firearms against those of similar countries with strict(er) gun control (less tolerance for firearms) and control for race/income/etc.  Guess what?  We (the USA, with greater tolerance for firearms) have more violent deaths with firearms, no matter how you slice the data(2) and (3).   

You are playing a shell-game here. How many people "die by firearm" is entirely irrelevant to the guns vs. crime debate because we don't care whether murders are "by firearm" or not. Nor should we care - an overall higher murder rate where the victims are all stabbed or strangled is worse than a lower murder rate when the victims are shot.

Quote
(3) This is despite the illegal traffic of firearms in theses countries.  Yes, firearms are theoretically available for purchase anywhere on the globe, but gov't restriction and/or lack of tolerance drives local prices so high that the practical availability is significantly reduced.  There are also this strange breed of folk who refrain from illegal acts just because they are illegal.

AHAHAHA.

Ha. Ha.

Seriously?

I can get an assault rifle *cheaper* here than you can get an AR15 at the gun store. See if you can figure out how.

As a matter of fact, the reason humans support gun rights is because we do not believe our neighbors are somehow evil tards whose likelihood of murdering us depends on the presence of a firearm. It is because we trust and respect our fellow man that we are willing to trust them with arms.

There is no proof, of course, that more (or less) people rape children today than 20 years ago.

Logically, though,  I don't see how rape of little boys is worse than rape of little girls. Both are equally heinous.

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roo_ster

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Re: more on sandusky
« Reply #43 on: November 29, 2011, 01:23:41 AM »
Using your logic, heterosexuality leads to men raping little girls.  You just hate the gays that much, huh?

Sorry to make you feel uncomfortable discussing grown-up topics.

But, in your inchoate and clumsy lashing out you did manage to hit on (quite by accident) a valid point.  That being, unbridled heterosexuality also has consequences, some of which are quite ugly to contemplate.  That might be why most every culture since the dawn of history has enacted some system to restrain and/or channel heterosexuality.

Thanks for the assist, however unintended and left-handed it may have been.

I don't see that he hates gays, just that he likes writing.  :lol: >:D [popcorn]

By Jamis's logic, I also hate guns.  He's zero for two in one post, explicitly and implicitly.

What I like is analysis and being able to think about the unspoken assumptions that folks like to shrug off or not think about.

In actuality, there have always been boys being sexually assaulted by men.

That is a given, but is not the point.  Like price signals in economics, the action is at the margins.
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roo_ster

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roo_ster

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Re: more on sandusky
« Reply #44 on: November 29, 2011, 01:43:07 AM »
You are playing a shell-game here. How many people "die by firearm" is entirely irrelevant to the guns vs. crime debate because we don't care whether murders are "by firearm" or not. Nor should we care - an overall higher murder rate where the victims are all stabbed or strangled is worse than a lower murder rate when the victims are shot.

No shell game, just being relentlessly consistent...and I do address non-firearm-related criminality in a footnote.  You are inserting values judgements into a quantitative question with your "Nor should we care."

Care to address the argument rather than grouse about the terms?

AHAHAHA.

Ha. Ha.

Seriously?

I can get an assault rifle *cheaper* here than you can get an AR15 at the gun store. See if you can figure out how.

As a matter of fact, the reason humans support gun rights is because we do not believe our neighbors are somehow evil tards whose likelihood of murdering us depends on the presence of a firearm. It is because we trust and respect our fellow man that we are willing to trust them with arms.

There is no proof, of course, that more (or less) people rape children today than 20 years ago.

Logically, though,  I don't see how rape of little boys is worse than rape of little girls. Both are equally heinous.

MB, you are not going to win on this one, the economics are too easy.  Yes, outlawed objects can, at times, be obtained more cheaply than they might be sold on an open market.  This is, however, the exception.  Were it otherwise, most liquor in the USA would still be produced/distributed by criminal gangs instead of by corporations and retail liquor stores.

Neither liquor nor firearms have some magic power that exempts them from economic forces.
Regards,

roo_ster

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MicroBalrog

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Re: more on sandusky
« Reply #45 on: November 29, 2011, 01:50:30 AM »
There's a very simple reason firearms are available cheaply in a gun control regime: there is less demand for them. The only people who still purchase firearms are criminals, and criminals buy stolen guns.

Quote
Care to address the argument rather than grouse about the terms?

Not when the terms are deliberately misleading.

As a matter of time, there is no evidence that increased gun ownership is related in any way to  increases in the overall rate of violence and murder.

In the same way, there's no evidence that increased liberty in consensual relationships relates in some way in increases in the overall rate of rape.


Rape is not merely yet another sexual perversion that you somehow arrive at through an increase in the deviancy of your sexual behavior, in the same way as murder is not just a product of you owning more and more firearms.

Just as there's a vast chasm between shooting IDPA matches and holding up liquor stores, there's a vast chasm betrween rape and swing parties.
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Re: more on sandusky
« Reply #46 on: November 29, 2011, 02:02:07 AM »
Funny that you don't address the other side of my post, roo-ster. Any reason why?
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Re: more on sandusky
« Reply #47 on: November 29, 2011, 05:27:23 AM »
All this back and forth about homo and hetro and what not is reall irrelevant.
The solution to Sandusky's and his like is simple and can be summed up in 6 words.
Trial
Conviction
Tall tree
Short rope
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

Samuel Adams

Jamie B

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Re: more on sandusky
« Reply #48 on: November 29, 2011, 06:26:47 AM »
All this back and forth about homo and hetro and what not is reall irrelevant.
The solution to Sandusky's and his like is simple and can be summed up in 6 words.
Trial
Conviction
Tall tree
Short rope
You might want to add Live National News Coverage.

This will inform the rest of the scum that death is imminent.
Greatness lies not in being strong, but in the right use of strength - Henry Ward Beecher

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RoadKingLarry

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Re: more on sandusky
« Reply #49 on: November 29, 2011, 08:20:48 AM »
I've been a proponent of live public execution for long time.

Loughner is a good example of those eligible, Nidal Malik Hasan is another. Absolutely no question of guilt.
Roll 'em out on a big flat bed trailer during 1/2 time at the Stuper bowl and swing from the gallows.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

Samuel Adams