AR 15 news

[Ron]

Sorry for linking to fake news  CNN (the enemy of the people).

Huge win for gun owners just occurred. I didn't see a discussion of this.

AR lowers don't fit the legal definition of a receiver so the case against this guy for illegal manufacturing was dropped.


https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/10/11/us/ar-15-guns-law-atf-invs/index.html?r=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.anonymousconservative.com%2Fblog%2F

[dogmush]

To be clear:

The case was dropped by the ATF before it could be ruled on, based on some comments from the judge.  The rules on AR lowers, and the ATF's definition of them, have not changed.

The feds decided they didn't want to risk it on this case, but reserve the right to come shoot your dog.

[RoadKingLarry]

While on the surface it sounds like a low level "win" the most likely outcome is every part that makes up a firearm will now be serialized and require a 4473 to purchase.
 

[dogmush]

While on the surface it sounds like a low level "win" the most likely outcome is every part that makes up a firearm will now be serialized and require a 4473 to purchase.
 

That'll take legislation.  The issue the ATF faced is that an AR Lower (complete) doesn't actually meet the definition of "Firearm" in law, and the judge said that they can't just say "well it's the closest part to the definition in law, so that's the gun."  Which, of course, is exactly what they did when presented with an AR for the first time.

The biggest, obvious thing here for someone with time and money to fight is the whole "third hole is instantly a machine gun" thing*, but I doubt there's rich enough people willing to fall on that sword.

When this first came up a decade or so ago, they kicked it back to congress to change the law, but nothing happened.  I expect the same thing will happen here, and life will proceed.


ETA:  *and bumpstocks.  There's very little chance that bit of rulemaking will survive a judge.

[Pb]

 "That part of a firearm which provides housing for the hammer, bolt or breechblock, and firing mechanism, and which is usually threaded at its forward portion to receive the barrel."

Wow, the judge is absolutely right.  The lower receiver by itself does not qualify... only the lower + the upper qualifies.

Good call by the Judge, I am surprised there is one willing to make a call against the gov based on firearms laws.

[cordex]

I do wonder if an eventual clear reinterpretation based on current legislation would make swapping uppers on an AR more difficult.

[Hawkmoon]

While on the surface it sounds like a low level "win" the most likely outcome is every part that makes up a firearm will now be serialized and require a 4473 to purchase.
 

No, re-read the article, and then Dogmush's comment in reply #1. The court order we can find on-line was a preliminary draft. It led to the Feds dropping the prosecution, which means the order was never entered as a court order.

This is the same approach that the .gov took in the case of that guy who was arrested for having had his handgun with him overnight at Newark Airport. After arresting him and putting him through the wringer, the .gov ultimately declined to prosecute when the guy refused to roll over and plead guilty. Why? Because there was a very good chance that a judge might read the FOPA and decide that the guy did his best to comply with the law. Rather than open the floodgates to people bringing firearms into the NYC airports for legal transportation by air, the .gov dropped the case. The result is that there's no court ruling that says it's legal to check a firearm at a NYC airport, so they can continue arresting and harassing people who are foolish enough to this that the FOPA will protect them.

Same here. We now know -- and the Feds now know -- that at least one judge can read, and that the emperor isn't wearing any clothes. There's no way out of that mousetrap for the BATFE, so from their perspective it's better to let this guy off the hook and keep the [legally untenable] status quo in place.

[Viking]

I do wonder if an eventual clear reinterpretation based on current legislation would make swapping uppers on an AR more difficult.

From my understanding, the lower is the easy part to make too. Laminated cutting boards or welded from flat parts easy. I know that over here, I can get M16 lowers without any paperwork. Upper, bolt, barrel require a license to aquire, although this is not universal in the EU.

[dogmush]

If they were really worried about proliferation the bolt, bolt carrier, and barrel/barrel extension would be the parts to regulate.  They are the hardest to make. 

Of course, that's not the way the laws are written, so their hands are kinda tied.

[Fly320s]

If they were really worried about proliferation the bolt, bolt carrier, and barrel/barrel extension would be the parts to regulate.  They are the hardest to make. 

Of course, that's not the way the laws are written, so their hands are kinda tied.

Their hands should be tied.  Tightly.  Behind their backs.  As they stand on the edge of a deep pit.

[brimic]

If they were really worried about proliferation the bolt, bolt carrier, and barrel/barrel extension would be the parts to regulate.  They are the hardest to make. 

Of course, that's not the way the laws are written, so their hands are kinda tied.

That's why I say to people to stock up on those parts plus upper receivers instead of extra lowers. Its only a matter of time before the law is changed to restrict their sale. Lowers can be make from a block of 7075 T6 aluminum- which is going to be a lot harder to regulate.

[dogmush]

wrong thread

[MechAg94]

That's why I say to people to stock up on those parts plus upper receivers instead of extra lowers. Its only a matter of time before the law is changed to restrict their sale. Lowers can be make from a block of 7075 T6 aluminum- which is going to be a lot harder to regulate.

Bare bones uppers and spare BCG's can be had fairly cheap depending on quality.  That is a fair point.

[230RN]

While on the surface it sounds like a low level "win" the most likely outcome is every part that makes up a firearm will now be serialized and require a 4473 to purchase.
 

Ayup.