Author Topic: Prop. 8 protesters target Mormon temple in Westwood  (Read 7622 times)

Desertdog

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Prop. 8 protesters target Mormon temple in Westwood
« on: November 07, 2008, 12:41:04 PM »
What happened to their tolerance?  Oh, I know, we did something they didn't like, the passing of Prop. 8, which makes them so mad they want to fight and destroy things.  I guess their tolerance is only if we agree with them.

Prop. 8 protesters target Mormon temple in Westwood
Gay-rights activists criticize the church for helping to collect millions to aid passage of ban on gay marriage.
By Jessica Garrison and Joanna Lin
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-protest7-2008nov07,0,5640883,full.story


More than a thousand gay-rights activists gathered Thursday afternoon outside the Mormon temple in Westwood to protest the role Mormons played in passing Proposition 8, which banned same-sex marriage in California.

It was the latest in an escalating campaign directed against the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints for its role in marshaling millions of dollars in contributions from its members for the successful campaign to take away same-sex marriage rights.

 
Members of the Mormon church, who were strongly urged by church leaders to contribute to the Proposition 8 campaign, had an undeniable role in the measure's victory. Opponents of Proposition 8 have accused the church of discriminating against homosexuals, but the backlash against the denomination has also sparked accusations of discrimination.

During the campaign, a website established by Proposition 8 opponents used campaign finance data and other public records to track Mormon political contributions to the Yes-on-8 campaign. Opponents estimated that members of the church had given more than $20 million, but the amount is difficult to confirm since the state does not track the religious affiliation of donors.

Critics of the website noted that the religious affiliations of other political donors are not generally researched.

A commercial opposing Proposition 8 also drew criticism. In it, two actors portraying Mormon missionaries forced their way into the well-kept home of a married lesbian couple.

"Hi, we're here from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints," one says.

"We're here to take away your rights," says his partner.

The missionaries then rip the wedding rings from the women's fingers and ransack their house until they find the women's marriage license, which they destroy.

"Hey, we have rights," one of the women says.

"Not if we can help it," answers the missionary.

The ad was produced by an independent group not affiliated with the official No-on-8 campaign and was shown on MSNBC and Comedy Central, according to Rick Jacobs of the Courage Campaign, a progressive political group.

Jeff Flint, strategist for Yes on 8, called the ad "despicable" and said it "crossed every line of decency."

"I am appalled at the level of Mormon-bashing that went on during the Proposition 8 campaign and continues to this day," he said. "If this activity were directed against any other church, if someone put up a website that targeted Jews or Catholics in a similar fashion for the mere act of participating in a political campaign, it would be widely and rightfully condemned."

Members and leaders of the Catholic Church and other Christian churches were also heavily involved in the campaign to pass Proposition 8. The Knights of Columbus, which is tied to the Catholic Church, gave $1 million, and several evangelical groups gave millions more. But they have not come under the same kind of attack.

Leaders of the No-on-8 campaign said they did not believe they were engaged in Mormon-bashing. "This is not about religion," said Jacobs. "This is about a church that put itself in the middle of politics."

Kate Kendell, executive director of the National Center for Lesbian Rights, said she had grown up in the Mormon Church and thought it was "very disappointing what the church has done and the alliances they have made with churches that don't even like them and have called the church a cult."

Church officials made few public statements during the campaign. On Thursday, they issued a statement asking for "a spirit of mutual respect and civility."

"The Church acknowledges that such an emotionally charged issue concerning the most personal and cherished aspects of life -- family and marriage -- stirs fervent and deep feelings," church spokeswoman Kim Farah wrote in an e-mail. "No one on either side of the question should be vilified, harassed or subject to erroneous information." She did not elaborate.

Outside the Los Angeles temple Thursday, dozens of protesters screamed "Bigots" and "Shame on You" at half a dozen men in button-down shirts and ties who looked out at the demonstration from behind the temple's closed gates.

The men did not respond.

Benjamin Wiser, 27, came to the protest dressed as a Mormon missionary, complete with black plastic name tag.

It was not a costume, he said. He was a missionary and a member of the church until age 23, when he left because he was gay.

Wiser said he did not feel the protesters were unfairly targeting the church.

"I don't think the Mormon church should be involved," he said.

Some gay-rights activists said they plan to continue to question the church's involvement.

Lorri L. Jean, chief executive of the Los Angeles Gay & Lesbian Center, which organized the rally outside the temple, announced the launch of a new website, invalidateprop8.org, which will raise money to fight for same-sex marriage rights in California.

For every $5 donated, Jean said, a postcard will be sent to the president of the Mormon church condemning "the reprehensible role the Church of Latter-day Saints leadership played in denying all Californians equal rights under the law."

"It is a travesty that the Mormon Church bought this election and used a campaign of lies and deception to manipulate voters in the great state of California," she said.

David Loder, 40, a business manager from Corona and a member of the Mormon church, heard about the protest on the radio. He said he was saddened by the anger directed against the church.

Loder said he had not given money to the Yes-on-8 campaign because finances are tight raising five daughters, but he did put a sign in his frontyard. It was vandalized, he said.

"As a member of the LDS church we have known [and still do] the feeling of being ridiculed and mistreated because of our faith," he said.

Garrison and Lin are Times staff writers.

Standing Wolf

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Re: Prop. 8 protesters target Mormon temple in Westwood
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2008, 12:50:37 PM »
Quote
"I don't think the Mormon church should be involved," he said.

Rights for me, but not for thee.
No tyrant should ever be allowed to die of natural causes.

MicroBalrog

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Re: Prop. 8 protesters target Mormon temple in Westwood
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2008, 12:52:27 PM »
Quote
What happened to their tolerance?  Oh, I know, we did something they didn't like, the passing of Prop. 8, which makes them so mad they want to fight and destroy things.  I guess their tolerance is only if we agree with them.

Nothing has been destroyed and nobody has been fought.

Quote
Rights for me, but not for thee.

So me criticising your political involvement or position is a violation of your rights?
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

Desertdog

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Re: Prop. 8 protesters target Mormon temple in Westwood
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2008, 01:11:38 PM »
Quote
Nothing has been destroyed and nobody has been fought.
Apparently you didn't see the LA CA news.  They are not done yet, either.

MicroBalrog

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Re: Prop. 8 protesters target Mormon temple in Westwood
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2008, 01:15:06 PM »
Apparently you didn't see the LA CA news.  They are not done yet, either.

No, I didn't. I'm going from the article in the thread.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

Manedwolf

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Re: Prop. 8 protesters target Mormon temple in Westwood
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2008, 01:17:15 PM »
Quote
Andrew Pugno, attorney for the groups that sponsored the amendment, called the lawsuits "frivolous and regrettable."

"It is time that the opponents of traditional marriage respect the voters' decision," he said.

The high court has not said when it will act. State officials said the ban on gay marriage took effect the morning after the election.

"We don't consider it a 'Hail Mary' at all," said Kate Kendell, executive director of the National Center for Lesbian Rights. "You simply can't so something like this - take away a fundamental right at the ballot."

Wonder what Kate would say in regard to the second amendment, there.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20081107/D94A2EA80.html

MicroBalrog

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Re: Prop. 8 protesters target Mormon temple in Westwood
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2008, 01:28:20 PM »
Wonder what Kate would say in regard to the second amendment, there.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20081107/D94A2EA80.html

I don't know. I am for gay marriage and I oppose more gun laws than many 'conservatives'.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

French G.

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Re: Prop. 8 protesters target Mormon temple in Westwood
« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2008, 01:29:10 PM »
Mormons used to be more than white shirts and cool underwear. Where is Porter Rockwell when you need him?  :laugh:
AKA Navy Joe   

I'm so contrarian that I didn't respond to the thread.

RaspberrySurprise

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Re: Prop. 8 protesters target Mormon temple in Westwood
« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2008, 01:46:09 PM »
If they wanna scream let 'em scream, as long as they aren't getting violent it's their right.

It seems that the church is getting butthurt that their support of prop 8 is getting them flak from the people who oppose it. Imagine that!

Quote
Wonder what Kate would say in regard to the second amendment, there.
I doubt she'd see the connection, but it would be worth the attempt.

Quote
David Loder, 40, a business manager from Corona and a member of the Mormon church, heard about the protest on the radio. He said he was saddened by the anger directed against the church.

Loder said he had not given money to the Yes-on-8 campaign because finances are tight raising five daughters, but he did put a sign in his frontyard. It was vandalized, he said.

"As a member of the LDS church we have known [and still do] the feeling of being ridiculed and mistreated because of our faith," he said.
Oh the irony.

Edited to switch support and oppose because I'm an idiot and mixed them up.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2008, 11:42:55 PM by RaspberrySurprise »
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roo_ster

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Re: Prop. 8 protesters target Mormon temple in Westwood
« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2008, 03:17:05 PM »
Generally speaking, if the bents are all, uh, bent out of shape because of something you did, you're likely on the right track.



Regards,

roo_ster

“Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.”
----G.K. Chesterton

MicroBalrog

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Re: Prop. 8 protesters target Mormon temple in Westwood
« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2008, 03:23:17 PM »
Generally speaking, if the bents are all, uh, bent out of shape because of something you did, you're likely on the right track.





This reminds me of a DU post I've read back in my commie days.

A poster there argued that 'any gun bill is good if it pisses off the NRA'.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

Bigjake

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Re: Prop. 8 protesters target Mormon temple in Westwood
« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2008, 03:23:57 PM »
Generally speaking, if the bents are all, uh, bent out of shape because of something you did, you're likely on the right track.





Exactly!

These people are idiots, I know many a well armed Mormon.  I'd hope any attempt at vandalizing their church would be repelled with extreme prejudice.

MicroBalrog

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Re: Prop. 8 protesters target Mormon temple in Westwood
« Reply #12 on: November 07, 2008, 03:25:01 PM »
Exactly!

These people are idiots, I know many a well armed Mormon.  I'd hope any attempt at vandalizing their church would be repelled with extreme prejudice.

Where do you get this 'vandalizing'?

To quote a previous posting:

Quote
It seems that the church is getting butthurt that their opposition of prop 8 is getting them flak from the people who supported it. Imagine that!
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

Jamisjockey

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Re: Prop. 8 protesters target Mormon temple in Westwood
« Reply #13 on: November 07, 2008, 03:26:03 PM »
Mormons used to be more than white shirts and cool underwear. Where is Porter Rockwell when you need him?  :laugh:

Maybe they should bring back forced marriages for 14 year olds, too?
Porter Rockwell was a murderous thug who didn't even live by Mormon moral standards.
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seeker_two

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Re: Prop. 8 protesters target Mormon temple in Westwood
« Reply #14 on: November 07, 2008, 03:48:25 PM »
Mormons used to be more than white shirts and cool underwear. Where is Porter Rockwell when you need him?  :laugh:

I was just thinking that....he had a pretty good way of addressing religious persecution....

Maybe they should bring back forced marriages for 14 year olds, too?


....as opposed to NAMBLA-approved "education" that the anti-Prop. 8 crowd is pushing?.....
Impressed yet befogged, they grasped at his vivid leading phrases, seeing only their surface meaning, and missing the deeper current of his thought.

MicroBalrog

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Re: Prop. 8 protesters target Mormon temple in Westwood
« Reply #15 on: November 07, 2008, 04:02:32 PM »
Quote
....as opposed to NAMBLA-approved "education" that the anti-Prop. 8 crowd is pushing?.....

NAMBLA-approved education? I demand a copy of that curriculum.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

Desertdog

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Re: Prop. 8 protesters target Mormon temple in Westwood
« Reply #16 on: November 07, 2008, 04:35:16 PM »
Quote
These people are idiots, I know many a well armed Mormon.  I'd hope any attempt at vandalizing their church would be repelled with extreme prejudice.

Where do you get this 'vandalizing'?
The protesters are not done yet.  If the Mormon temple is not fire bombed at sometime in the near future will surprise me.

Watch the news this Sunday when the church services are in session.

French G.

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Re: Prop. 8 protesters target Mormon temple in Westwood
« Reply #17 on: November 07, 2008, 04:38:37 PM »
I'm quite aware Rockwell was a murderous thug. Would kinda tamp down opposition from non-murderous thugs though.  :laugh:

Besides, he had the best defense ever for attempted murder.

"never shot at anybody, if I shoot they get shot!... He's still alive, ain't he?"

It's a joke...

« Last Edit: November 07, 2008, 04:41:56 PM by French G. »
AKA Navy Joe   

I'm so contrarian that I didn't respond to the thread.

MicroBalrog

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Re: Prop. 8 protesters target Mormon temple in Westwood
« Reply #18 on: November 07, 2008, 04:38:49 PM »
The protesters are not done yet.  If the Mormon temple is not fire bombed at sometime in the near future will surprise me.

Watch the news this Sunday when the church services are in session.

So, what brings you to say that people currently peacefully protesting (at least according to the article above) are about to firebomb someone?
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

MechAg94

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Re: Prop. 8 protesters target Mormon temple in Westwood
« Reply #19 on: November 07, 2008, 05:08:53 PM »
It seems to me that these protesters are just singling out one group that opposed them out of spite.  I would assume they know that hispanics and blacks also voted against them.  They actually won a majority of white voters or so I heard today.
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red headed stranger

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Re: Prop. 8 protesters target Mormon temple in Westwood
« Reply #20 on: November 08, 2008, 12:33:44 AM »
NAMBLA-approved education? I demand a copy of that curriculum.

Indeed.  I would like to see proof of that. 
Those who learn from history are doomed to watch others repeat it

Kwelz

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Re: Prop. 8 protesters target Mormon temple in Westwood
« Reply #21 on: November 08, 2008, 01:29:50 AM »
Indeed.  I would like to see proof of that. 

There will be no proof because it doesn't exist.  But obviously Two people loving each other and wanting to get married that doesn't meet the approval of a specific religion is a threat to all humanity.  And they will spontaneously break out into violence against the group who actively campaigned to keep them as second class citizens.   ;/ :rolleyes:

roo_ster

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Re: Prop. 8 protesters target Mormon temple in Westwood
« Reply #22 on: November 08, 2008, 01:59:27 AM »
There will be no proof because it doesn't exist.  But obviously Two people loving each other and wanting to get married that doesn't meet the approval of a specific religion is a threat to all humanity.  And they will spontaneously break out into violence against the group who actively campaigned to keep them as second class citizens.   ;/ :rolleyes:

It seems to me that these protesters are just singling out one group that opposed them out of spite.  I would assume they know that hispanics and blacks also voted against them.  They actually won a majority of white voters or so I heard today.

Oh, the homosexuals have a little something for the uppity negroes who voted for Prop 8:


    It was like being at a klan rally except the klansmen were wearing Abercrombie polos and Birkenstocks. YOU *let's not go there*, one man shouted at men. If your people want to call me a *Not nice word for gay men*, I will call you a *let's not go there*. Someone else said same thing to me on the next block near the temple...me and my friend were walking, he is also gay but Korean, and a young WeHo clone said after last night the niggers better not come to West Hollywood if they knew what was BEST for them.

...

    Three older men accosted my friend and shouted, "Black people did this, I hope you people are happy!" A young lesbian couple with mohawks and Obama buttons joined the shouting and said there were "very disappointed with black people" and "how could we" after the Obama victory. This was stupid for them to single us out because we were carrying those blue NO ON PROP 8 signs! I pointed that out and the one of the older men said it didn't matter because "most black people hated gays" and he was "wrong" to think we had compassion. That was the most insulting thing I had ever heard. I guess he never thought we were gay.



Regards,

roo_ster

“Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.”
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RaspberrySurprise

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Re: Prop. 8 protesters target Mormon temple in Westwood
« Reply #23 on: November 08, 2008, 02:44:07 AM »
Imagine that, aholes come in every stripe and color.
Look, tiny text!

MicroBalrog

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Re: Prop. 8 protesters target Mormon temple in Westwood
« Reply #24 on: November 08, 2008, 11:59:14 AM »
Quote
Oh, the homosexuals have a little something for the uppity negroes who voted for Prop 8:

'The homosexuals'?

So this is somehow the fault of 'the homosexuals'?
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner