Post by: roo_ster on March 13, 2008, 10:28:41 AM
@sshole.
Obama's Pastor: God Damn America, U.S. to Blame for 9/11
Obama's Pastor, Rev. Jeremiah Wright, Has a History of What Even Obama's Campaign Aides Say Is 'Inflammatory Rhetoric'
By BRIAN ROSS and REHAB EL-BURI
March 13, 2008
Sen. Barack Obama's pastor says blacks should not sing "God Bless America" but "God damn America."
The Rev. Jeremiah Wright, Obama's pastor for the last 20 years at the Trinity United Church of Christ on Chicago's south side, has a long history of what even Obama's campaign aides concede is "inflammatory rhetoric," including the assertion that the United States brought on the 9/11 attacks with its own "terrorism."
In a campaign appearance earlier this month, Sen. Obama said, "I don't think my church is actually particularly controversial." He said Rev. Wright "is like an old uncle who says things I don't always agree with," telling a Jewish group that everyone has someone like that in their family.
Rev. Wright married Obama and his wife Michelle, baptized their two daughters and is credited by Obama for the title of his book, "The Audacity of Hope."
An ABC News review of dozens of Rev. Wright's sermons, offered for sale by the church, found repeated denunciations of the U.S. based on what he described as his reading of the Gospels and the treatment of black Americans.
"The government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three-strike law and then wants us to sing 'God Bless America.' No, no, no, God damn America, that's in the Bible for killing innocent people," he said in a 2003 sermon. "God damn America for treating our citizens as less than human. God damn America for as long as she acts like she is God and she is supreme."
In addition to damning America, he told his congregation on the Sunday after Sept. 11, 2001 that the United States had brought on al Qaeda's attacks because of its own terrorism.
"We bombed Hiroshima, we bombed Nagasaki, and we nuked far more than the thousands in New York and the Pentagon, and we never batted an eye," Rev. Wright said in a sermon on Sept. 16, 2001.
"We have supported state terrorism against the Palestinians and black South Africans, and now we are indignant because the stuff we have done overseas is now brought right back to our own front yards. America's chickens are coming home to roost," he told his congregation.
Sen. Obama told the New York Times he was not at the church on the day of Rev. Wright's 9/11 sermon. "The violence of 9/11 was inexcusable and without justification," Obama said in a recent interview. "It sounds like he was trying to be provocative," Obama told the paper.
Rev. Wright, who announced his retirement last month, has built a large and loyal following at his church with his mesmerizing sermons, mixing traditional spiritual content and his views on contemporary issues.
"I wouldn't call it radical. I call it being black in America," said one congregation member outside the church last Sunday.
"He has impacted the life of Barack Obama so much so that he wants to portray that feeling he got from Rev. Wright onto the country because we all need something positive," said another member of the congregation.
Rev. Wright, who declined to be interviewed by ABC News, is considered one of the country's 10 most influential black pastors, according to members of the Obama campaign.
Obama has praised at least one aspect of Rev. Wright's approach, referring to his "social gospel" and his focus on Africa, "and I agree with him on that."
Sen. Obama declined to comment on Rev. Wright's denunciations of the United States, but a campaign religious adviser, Shaun Casey, appearing on "Good Morning America" Thursday, said Obama "had repudiated" those comments.
In a statement to ABCNews.com, Obama's press spokesman Bill Burton said, "Sen. Obama has said repeatedly that personal attacks such as this have no place in this campaign or our politics, whether they're offered from a platform at a rally or the pulpit of a church. Sen. Obama does not think of the pastor of his church in political terms. Like a member of his family, there are things he says with which Sen. Obama deeply disagrees. But now that he is retired, that doesn't detract from Sen. Obama's affection for Rev. Wright or his appreciation for the good works he has done."
Obama's Pastor, Rev. Jeremiah Wright, Has a History of What Even Obama's Campaign Aides Say Is 'Inflammatory Rhetoric'
By BRIAN ROSS and REHAB EL-BURI
March 13, 2008
Sen. Barack Obama's pastor says blacks should not sing "God Bless America" but "God damn America."
The Rev. Jeremiah Wright, Obama's pastor for the last 20 years at the Trinity United Church of Christ on Chicago's south side, has a long history of what even Obama's campaign aides concede is "inflammatory rhetoric," including the assertion that the United States brought on the 9/11 attacks with its own "terrorism."
In a campaign appearance earlier this month, Sen. Obama said, "I don't think my church is actually particularly controversial." He said Rev. Wright "is like an old uncle who says things I don't always agree with," telling a Jewish group that everyone has someone like that in their family.
Rev. Wright married Obama and his wife Michelle, baptized their two daughters and is credited by Obama for the title of his book, "The Audacity of Hope."
An ABC News review of dozens of Rev. Wright's sermons, offered for sale by the church, found repeated denunciations of the U.S. based on what he described as his reading of the Gospels and the treatment of black Americans.
"The government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three-strike law and then wants us to sing 'God Bless America.' No, no, no, God damn America, that's in the Bible for killing innocent people," he said in a 2003 sermon. "God damn America for treating our citizens as less than human. God damn America for as long as she acts like she is God and she is supreme."
In addition to damning America, he told his congregation on the Sunday after Sept. 11, 2001 that the United States had brought on al Qaeda's attacks because of its own terrorism.
"We bombed Hiroshima, we bombed Nagasaki, and we nuked far more than the thousands in New York and the Pentagon, and we never batted an eye," Rev. Wright said in a sermon on Sept. 16, 2001.
"We have supported state terrorism against the Palestinians and black South Africans, and now we are indignant because the stuff we have done overseas is now brought right back to our own front yards. America's chickens are coming home to roost," he told his congregation.
Sen. Obama told the New York Times he was not at the church on the day of Rev. Wright's 9/11 sermon. "The violence of 9/11 was inexcusable and without justification," Obama said in a recent interview. "It sounds like he was trying to be provocative," Obama told the paper.
Rev. Wright, who announced his retirement last month, has built a large and loyal following at his church with his mesmerizing sermons, mixing traditional spiritual content and his views on contemporary issues.
"I wouldn't call it radical. I call it being black in America," said one congregation member outside the church last Sunday.
"He has impacted the life of Barack Obama so much so that he wants to portray that feeling he got from Rev. Wright onto the country because we all need something positive," said another member of the congregation.
Rev. Wright, who declined to be interviewed by ABC News, is considered one of the country's 10 most influential black pastors, according to members of the Obama campaign.
Obama has praised at least one aspect of Rev. Wright's approach, referring to his "social gospel" and his focus on Africa, "and I agree with him on that."
Sen. Obama declined to comment on Rev. Wright's denunciations of the United States, but a campaign religious adviser, Shaun Casey, appearing on "Good Morning America" Thursday, said Obama "had repudiated" those comments.
In a statement to ABCNews.com, Obama's press spokesman Bill Burton said, "Sen. Obama has said repeatedly that personal attacks such as this have no place in this campaign or our politics, whether they're offered from a platform at a rally or the pulpit of a church. Sen. Obama does not think of the pastor of his church in political terms. Like a member of his family, there are things he says with which Sen. Obama deeply disagrees. But now that he is retired, that doesn't detract from Sen. Obama's affection for Rev. Wright or his appreciation for the good works he has done."
Post by: Manedwolf on March 13, 2008, 10:35:44 AM
Not surprising. That just looks like all the stuff I suspected Obama believes, but would never say. He only grins and says empty feelgood platitudes.
Three-strikes laws are bad? Yeah, I'm sure he believes that. His sort coddles criminals as victims.
9/11 was our fault? Of course he believes that.
Anyone ever wonder what sorts Obama would pardon? "Troubled youths" who only did a dozen drive-bys with multiple fatalities and want to turn their life around, maybe? They're victims of society and the rich, you know!
Post by: El Tejon on March 13, 2008, 12:03:09 PM
From talking to Obama, I believe that it is not that Obama hates the USA, he just loves the UN more. B.H. Obama, our post-American President.
Post by: Perd Hapley on March 13, 2008, 02:48:57 PM
Post by: wooderson on March 13, 2008, 04:52:21 PM
Post by: lupinus on March 13, 2008, 05:21:44 PM
Post by: Paddy on March 13, 2008, 05:26:29 PM
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on March 13, 2008, 06:41:23 PM
Post by: Tecumseh on March 13, 2008, 07:08:44 PM
He's very close to Obama, too.
Not surprising. That just looks like all the stuff I suspected Obama believes, but would never say. He only grins and says empty feelgood platitudes.
Three-strikes laws are bad? Yeah, I'm sure he believes that. His sort coddles criminals as victims.
9/11 was our fault? Of course he believes that.
Anyone ever wonder what sorts Obama would pardon? "Troubled youths" who only did a dozen drive-bys with multiple fatalities and want to turn their life around, maybe? They're victims of society and the rich, you know!
When you say "His sort" what do you mean? How do you know that Obama would pardon muderers? Not surprising. That just looks like all the stuff I suspected Obama believes, but would never say. He only grins and says empty feelgood platitudes.
Three-strikes laws are bad? Yeah, I'm sure he believes that. His sort coddles criminals as victims.
9/11 was our fault? Of course he believes that.
Anyone ever wonder what sorts Obama would pardon? "Troubled youths" who only did a dozen drive-bys with multiple fatalities and want to turn their life around, maybe? They're victims of society and the rich, you know!
Are we going to have to worry about Christian terrorists now is what I am wondering. Anyone else with me?
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on March 13, 2008, 07:18:24 PM
Post by: SomeKid on March 13, 2008, 08:59:37 PM
He's very close to Obama, too.
Not surprising. That just looks like all the stuff I suspected Obama believes, but would never say. He only grins and says empty feelgood platitudes.
Three-strikes laws are bad? Yeah, I'm sure he believes that. His sort coddles criminals as victims.
9/11 was our fault? Of course he believes that.
Anyone ever wonder what sorts Obama would pardon? "Troubled youths" who only did a dozen drive-bys with multiple fatalities and want to turn their life around, maybe? They're victims of society and the rich, you know!
When you say "His sort" what do you mean? How do you know that Obama would pardon muderers? Not surprising. That just looks like all the stuff I suspected Obama believes, but would never say. He only grins and says empty feelgood platitudes.
Three-strikes laws are bad? Yeah, I'm sure he believes that. His sort coddles criminals as victims.
9/11 was our fault? Of course he believes that.
Anyone ever wonder what sorts Obama would pardon? "Troubled youths" who only did a dozen drive-bys with multiple fatalities and want to turn their life around, maybe? They're victims of society and the rich, you know!
Are we going to have to worry about Christian terrorists now is what I am wondering. Anyone else with me?
Oh I am! I tremble in fear Daley because Christians might blow themselves up, fly a plane into a building, saw my head off with a knife, or cause some other sort of mayhem. After all, such activities are the next logical step from preaching about love, caring for the poor, etc. Us dirty Christians are so evil. As an aside, do you make the Kool-Aid yourself?
Post by: Tecumseh on March 14, 2008, 01:30:06 AM
He's very close to Obama, too.
Not surprising. That just looks like all the stuff I suspected Obama believes, but would never say. He only grins and says empty feelgood platitudes.
Three-strikes laws are bad? Yeah, I'm sure he believes that. His sort coddles criminals as victims.
9/11 was our fault? Of course he believes that.
Anyone ever wonder what sorts Obama would pardon? "Troubled youths" who only did a dozen drive-bys with multiple fatalities and want to turn their life around, maybe? They're victims of society and the rich, you know!
When you say "His sort" what do you mean? How do you know that Obama would pardon muderers? Not surprising. That just looks like all the stuff I suspected Obama believes, but would never say. He only grins and says empty feelgood platitudes.
Three-strikes laws are bad? Yeah, I'm sure he believes that. His sort coddles criminals as victims.
9/11 was our fault? Of course he believes that.
Anyone ever wonder what sorts Obama would pardon? "Troubled youths" who only did a dozen drive-bys with multiple fatalities and want to turn their life around, maybe? They're victims of society and the rich, you know!
Are we going to have to worry about Christian terrorists now is what I am wondering. Anyone else with me?
Oh I am! I tremble in fear Daley because Christians might blow themselves up, fly a plane into a building, saw my head off with a knife, or cause some other sort of mayhem. After all, such activities are the next logical step from preaching about love, caring for the poor, etc. Us dirty Christians are so evil. As an aside, do you make the Kool-Aid yourself?
You are not so familiar with the history of Christianity, are you? As far as Koolaid, I make it most of the time but I sometimes just buy the premade stuff.
Post by: Jamisjockey on March 14, 2008, 02:42:16 AM
When you say "His sort" what do you mean? How do you know that Obama would pardon muderers?
Are we going to have to worry about Christian terrorists now is what I am wondering. Anyone else with me?
Are we going to have to worry about Christian terrorists now is what I am wondering. Anyone else with me?
You're kidding, right?
Post by: MechAg94 on March 14, 2008, 06:20:08 AM
No.
IMO, ministers and preachers should stick to teaching the Word of God and leave the politics to others. That goes for him, for Pat Robertson, and others. If they don't, they should no longer allow people to refer to them as reverend or other similar titles. The two don't go together IMO.
As far as the "pardoning murderers" part, I am all for helping people in bad circumstances improve their lives, but I think the consequences for crimes should remain stiff. The 3-strikes rule was enacted because citizens were tired of hearing about repeat offenders getting back out on the streets committing crimes. How many felonies do you think poor underprivileged kids should get?
Post by: johnster999 on March 14, 2008, 06:46:22 AM
I guess not in wacky separatist type churches. You know, the kind that produce BS-artist, political demagogues like Barack Obama.
He's not Obama's curmudgeonly old uncle, either. He's the minister that Obama and his wife chose as their family's primary spiritual and religious adviser. That says a lot.
Post by: Sheng_Pao on March 14, 2008, 07:57:21 AM
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.Sike.
Post by: longeyes on March 14, 2008, 02:36:17 PM
It is no accident that his spiritual surrogate father is Rev. Wright and his closest intimate is Michelle. It's no secret what those two have in common: a loathing of the very nation that Barack aspires to be President of.
I'm beginning to think Obama is insane and a big chunk of our own country is insane enough to welcome him to leadership.
Post by: Phyphor on March 16, 2008, 07:46:51 PM
That said, that pastor dude ain't nothing but a racist kook. The amount of airtime that idiot's gotten is entirely too much.
Post by: longeyes on March 16, 2008, 08:33:44 PM
Bush wasn't the answer and Obama and Hillary certainly can't provide anything but an ephemeral euphoria.
Post by: MechAg94 on March 17, 2008, 05:22:17 AM
I think McCain will have a pretty good chance in this election as a lot of people will likely end up seeing him as the "safe" pick.
Post by: Waitone on March 17, 2008, 07:25:07 AM
Post by: Manedwolf on March 17, 2008, 07:36:19 AM
I'm beginning to sense Obama is a peculiarly volatile mixture of marxist political ideology and racist religious beliefs. Disturbing to say the least.
Don't forget the fact that he only wants the police and military to have any guns at all.
Post by: Headless Thompson Gunner on March 17, 2008, 07:54:22 AM
I think there will come a time in the not so distant future when folks will look back on the days of George W's Presidency fondly.
Post by: longeyes on March 17, 2008, 04:07:41 PM
Post by: grampster on March 17, 2008, 06:51:01 PM
I think McCain will have a pretty good chance in this election as a lot of people will likely end up seeing him as the "safe" pick.
And that's what makes McCain so dangerous. He's a rino of the first order. Rather than taking the power he may be justly given by the electorate, he's got a track record of trying to get along with the statists instead of steamrollering the opposition; which is exactly what they do when they have power. Democrats never care what Republicans think or want. The Republicans are like Rodney King; why can't we all just get along. That is the scariest thought of them all.
As for McCain picking conservative judges? If you believe that, I'll sell you a bridge. He'd never nominate a strict constructionist to the court. Teddy Kennedy, Pelosi, Feingold et al would tell him no and he'd bow down. In fact when Hannity interviewed him, he never even mentioned the most thoughtful Justice, and firm strict constructionist on the present court as an example of who he'd hire; Clarence Thomas.
Post by: Len S on March 18, 2008, 07:40:37 AM
Len S
Post by: Ex-MA Hole on March 18, 2008, 08:12:20 AM
Post by: Len S on March 18, 2008, 08:28:53 AM
Len
Post by: Manedwolf on March 18, 2008, 08:35:29 AM
Yeah, that's gonna go over well.
Rule 1 in American politics: Do not denigrate the Constitution.
Rule 2 in American politics: Do not denigrate the Constitution.
I would like to see a black president, or a Hispanic president, or an Asian president...if they were qualified. I don't care what race. I don't even see race. It's just people, all the same, no difference beneath skin and facial features. I care about ability and political platform.
In terms of blacks, I think the best thing would be a qualified black Republican, simply because "Black Democrats", referring to the political group, not the race, just cannot divorce or distance themselves from the politics of anti-white anger. They don't even see the successful blacks in the suburbs, the lawyers and doctors, the investment bankers with a new Range Rover full of kids. To them, it's eternally 1960, and The Man is keeping them down.
Clarence Thomas is black. Condoleeza Rice is black. Both high offices, both Republicans.
What do the Democrats produce? Jesse Jackson. And now Obama, who is picking up the same damned Malcolm X cadence in his speeches that Jackson, Sharpton and the rest use. What is he trying to do, set race relations back 40 years?
They just can't do otherwise, the Dems. Won't ever learn.
Post by: MechAg94 on March 18, 2008, 09:55:29 AM
Post by: longrifleman on March 18, 2008, 10:08:18 AM
Quote
I think the best thing would be a qualified black Republican
I had hopes J.C. Watts from Oklahoma would eventually fill that role. Unfortunately, he showed his qualification for the job by quitting politics.
Post by: longeyes on March 18, 2008, 10:22:08 AM
Quote
What is he trying to do, set race relations back 40 years?
Why yes, those were the good old days, you know, when anger (and drugs) ruled the earth.
Post by: johnster999 on March 18, 2008, 11:02:15 AM
Post by: Manedwolf on March 18, 2008, 11:08:20 AM
I saw part of Obama's speech. No doubt the man is eloquent but this does not offset the fact that he's been so close to Wright for so long. Sorry, but you just cannot divorce the good side of a man you say you've seen in private from the hateful side shown so overtly in public.
Read the transcript. Once you get past the eloquent brainfog, you see that he is:
1. Being a victim
2. Blaming other people, not Wright
3. Blaming history
Post by: johnster999 on March 18, 2008, 11:13:42 AM
Read the transcript. Once you get past the eloquent brainfog, you see that he is:
1. Being a victim
2. Blaming other people, not Wright
3. Blaming history
1. Being a victim
2. Blaming other people, not Wright
3. Blaming history
And let's not overlook basically saying that some folks just don't "get it".
Post by: longeyes on March 18, 2008, 11:37:06 AM
Unfortunately, what Obama is going to set in motion is a monstrous white backlash. The more people define themselves as Anything But White, Victimized, and Entitled the more the Moby Dick of the Middle Class will awaken.
There used to be a name for Obama's brand of "eloquence:" empty sophistry.
Post by: Manedwolf on March 18, 2008, 11:39:57 AM
We get it. And we're tired of it.
Unfortunately, what Obama is going to set in motion is a monstrous white backlash. The more people define themselves as Anything But White, Victimized, and Entitled the more the Moby Dick of the Middle Class will awaken.
There used to be a name for Obama's brand of "eloquence:" empty sophistry.
Unfortunately, what Obama is going to set in motion is a monstrous white backlash. The more people define themselves as Anything But White, Victimized, and Entitled the more the Moby Dick of the Middle Class will awaken.
There used to be a name for Obama's brand of "eloquence:" empty sophistry.
That does a colossal disservice to blacks who have spent the last forty years quietly becoming educated and becoming successful in America, who are now members of the middle, upper middle and upper class just like anyone else of any color. I wonder if he cares.
Probably not.
The civil rights movement was successful. There are no separate water fountains, no segregation, and if anyone of any color cares to educate themselves and work hard, they can have the American dream. As I said...Supreme Court Judge. Secretary of State. The barriers were broken long ago, the war was over.
But for some, that wasn't what they wanted. They got too addicted to the culture of professional victimhood, the reverend-style speeches full of hate and promises of revenge and simmering resentment. To them, the enemy was, and is still the whites, the Jews, the Hispanics, anyone different. THEY are the racists now.
And they're only hurting blacks who instead took the opportunity to have part of the American dream.
Post by: longeyes on March 18, 2008, 11:45:22 AM
As far as the reality of a white backlash, I'll guess we'll see in November. Whites have been understanding for a long time, for reasons of guilt or magnanimity. But no one likes to have that thrown in their faces. There are a lot of things left to be said about this complicated issue, and a lot of people are going to get angry as the layers are stripped off.
Post by: Manedwolf on March 18, 2008, 11:47:51 AM
Sure, it does, and I'm not saying all blacks support Rev. Wright. I'm saying too many do, either overtly or covertly, as witness the defenders of the Reverend's statements according to polling data. My real point is that Obama is and will be highly divisive. He is going to be anything but a uniter.
As far as the reality of a white backlash, I'll guess we'll see in November. Whites have been understanding for a long time, for reasons of guilt or magnanimity. But no one likes to have that thrown in their faces. There are a lot of things left to be said about this complicated issue, and a lot of people are going to get angry as the layers are stripped off.
As far as the reality of a white backlash, I'll guess we'll see in November. Whites have been understanding for a long time, for reasons of guilt or magnanimity. But no one likes to have that thrown in their faces. There are a lot of things left to be said about this complicated issue, and a lot of people are going to get angry as the layers are stripped off.
Oh, I meant what Obama is doing now is doing the disservice, not what you said.
He's firing shots in a war that was over long ago.
Also, most people I meet don't resent anything to do with race at all, or dislike any race. They dislike some CULTURES.
They dislike the thug culture of the inner city when it spills out into surrounding areas and gets people robbed and killed. The members of that culture can be white-trash skinheads, MS-13 Hispanics, or gangsta blacks. Often, they're all three.
Yet when anyone says anything bad about that culture, they are branded "racist" by the leftists.
To me, one of the most poignant examples just happened in LA. A truly good black kid, rising football star, close to family, kept off drugs...A car of gang members rolled up to him, asked "Where you from?", as in what gang was he a member of, and then shot him when he didn't answer.
That is a culture and members of that culture that killed him. Not a race.
Post by: longeyes on March 18, 2008, 11:52:49 AM
Post by: De Selby on March 18, 2008, 05:54:43 PM
That is a culture and members of that culture that killed him. Not a race.
I guess it was just coincidence that the kid was black and the gang shooters weren't-because we all know that gang members generally aren't racist?
Seriously, I watched that speech and saw a president in the making. I don't see how you could be more fair on the issue of race than he achieved in this one, nor do I see "victimization" or anything like Malcolm X in there.
My real problem with Obama is that, at root, he's basically got the same policies as Hillary or McCain or George Bush. None of the candidates are that different-they all do not care about some issues (like gun control), do not really offer any significantly different economic prospects, and are all more or less on the same foreign policy wavelength.
But the way this campaign is going on, the talk about what a bad job he's doing or what a dumb move this or that was is going to result in some serious foot-in-mouth disease. That speech was one of the ones that the winning candidate gives.
Post by: Manedwolf on March 19, 2008, 02:12:08 AM
That is a culture and members of that culture that killed him. Not a race.
I guess it was just coincidence that the kid was black and the gang shooters weren't-because we all know that gang members generally aren't racist?
Seriously, I watched that speech and saw a president in the making. I don't see how you could be more fair on the issue of race than he achieved in this one, nor do I see "victimization" or anything like Malcolm X in there.
My real problem with Obama is that, at root, he's basically got the same policies as Hillary or McCain or George Bush. None of the candidates are that different-they all do not care about some issues (like gun control), do not really offer any significantly different economic prospects, and are all more or less on the same foreign policy wavelength.
But the way this campaign is going on, the talk about what a bad job he's doing or what a dumb move this or that was is going to result in some serious foot-in-mouth disease. That speech was one of the ones that the winning candidate gives.
Man, now you've gone from CAIR apologist to Obamaniac.
Might not you be happier over on Daily Kos, where all the people will nod and agree with your every post? You'd be a hero over there.
Post by: doczinn on March 19, 2008, 05:11:38 AM
Quote
I don't see how you could be more fair on the issue of race than he achieved in this one
Really? Comparing that hatefulness spewed from the pulpit to his grandmother, because she stereotyped and was afraid of being mugged?
Post by: longeyes on March 19, 2008, 07:56:17 AM
Quote
Seriously, I watched that speech and saw a president in the making.
Ah, yes, if only it were 1860 again...
Post by: longeyes on March 19, 2008, 08:08:02 AM
Quote
The civil rights movement was successful. There are no separate water fountains, no segregation, and if anyone of any color cares to educate themselves and work hard, they can have the American dream. As I said...Supreme Court Judge. Secretary of State. The barriers were broken long ago, the war was over.
Right, but the goal was never really just political equality, it was a Marxist transformation of America. And that takes a perpetual stream of victims and endless poverty. The movement of black Americans into the middle class had to be blunted, otherwise the social welfare machine would have no purpose. Answer: import 25 million poor Mexicans, Central Americans, and others.
Post by: roo_ster on March 19, 2008, 01:30:03 PM
Obama the Magician [Victor Davis Hanson]
I think the speech has wowed Obamas base, yet after its mesmerizing delivery wears off, it will perhaps raise more questions with most others.
The Obama narratives suggest a disturbing lack of responsibility, or of any notion of free will. Michelle, for example, apparently had no free will in taking out big loans to go to Harvard Law School, only pique that they must be paid back.
Barack had likewise no free will in allying himself as friend, parishioner, and confidant with an abject racist who is now evolved into a former pastor, and a scholar and an occasionally fierce critic of American domestic and foreign policy and controversial (apparently not particularly controversial is now inoperative).
Indeed, the last thing Obama wants, in fact, is an honest, painful discussion about race in America, especially how centuries of racism, but also as well as present demagogic leadership, white guilt, and ineffective and counterproductive government programs, have all factored into present endemic problems of illegitimacy, extraordinary high crime rates, and often racist narratives from the likes of Wright and Farrakhan to rap music and yet have not precluded the amazing success and parity with the rest of America on the part of well over half of the African-American community.
Two corollaries always follow the Obama victimology: moral equivalence and the subtle suggestion that any who question his thesis of despair are themselves suspect.
So we hear of poor Baracks grandmothers private fears in the same breath as Wrights public hatred. Geraldine Ferraro is understood in the same context as Reverend Wright. The Reagan Coalition and talk radio are identical to Reverend Wright albeit without similar contexts for their own purported racism. Your own pastor, priest, or rabbi are analogous to Rev. Wright.
And then, of course, your own motives are suspect if you question any of this sophistry. For Michelle it is always they who raised new obstacles against this deprived Ivy League couple and their quest for the Presidency; for Barack it is those who play snippets , or the system of corporate culture that has made Wright the object of anger to similarly victimized poor white pawns.
The message? Wrights motives for espousing hatred are complex and misunderstood; your motives for worrying about Obama and his Pastor are simple and suspect.
When Obama the magician was all done this morning, Obama was no longer under examination for terrible judgment in subsidizing a racist by his association and purse, nor was even the racist Wright under doubt; instead almost everyone else, from the system to his grandmother, to talk radio, to corporate culture, to your rabbi or priest suddenly was.
The result? This will apparently play well with a Democratic African-American audience and white elite liberals, who are already giddy and comparing the speech to Martin Luther Kings best. In this way of thinking, after all, that for the last seven years the most powerful diplomats in the world have been two African-Americans counts little (Wright, for example, slurred Sec. Rice), but that anyone would dare ask a presidential candidate to dissociate himself from a racist counts a lot.
Yet in the general election, millions will still remember how Obamas pastor and confidant Reverend Wright cursed their culture and their country, and they will still remain confused about his relationship with and influence upon their would-be next Presidentand in the end they will be very much angered by all that indeed.
I think the speech has wowed Obamas base, yet after its mesmerizing delivery wears off, it will perhaps raise more questions with most others.
The Obama narratives suggest a disturbing lack of responsibility, or of any notion of free will. Michelle, for example, apparently had no free will in taking out big loans to go to Harvard Law School, only pique that they must be paid back.
Barack had likewise no free will in allying himself as friend, parishioner, and confidant with an abject racist who is now evolved into a former pastor, and a scholar and an occasionally fierce critic of American domestic and foreign policy and controversial (apparently not particularly controversial is now inoperative).
Indeed, the last thing Obama wants, in fact, is an honest, painful discussion about race in America, especially how centuries of racism, but also as well as present demagogic leadership, white guilt, and ineffective and counterproductive government programs, have all factored into present endemic problems of illegitimacy, extraordinary high crime rates, and often racist narratives from the likes of Wright and Farrakhan to rap music and yet have not precluded the amazing success and parity with the rest of America on the part of well over half of the African-American community.
Two corollaries always follow the Obama victimology: moral equivalence and the subtle suggestion that any who question his thesis of despair are themselves suspect.
So we hear of poor Baracks grandmothers private fears in the same breath as Wrights public hatred. Geraldine Ferraro is understood in the same context as Reverend Wright. The Reagan Coalition and talk radio are identical to Reverend Wright albeit without similar contexts for their own purported racism. Your own pastor, priest, or rabbi are analogous to Rev. Wright.
And then, of course, your own motives are suspect if you question any of this sophistry. For Michelle it is always they who raised new obstacles against this deprived Ivy League couple and their quest for the Presidency; for Barack it is those who play snippets , or the system of corporate culture that has made Wright the object of anger to similarly victimized poor white pawns.
The message? Wrights motives for espousing hatred are complex and misunderstood; your motives for worrying about Obama and his Pastor are simple and suspect.
When Obama the magician was all done this morning, Obama was no longer under examination for terrible judgment in subsidizing a racist by his association and purse, nor was even the racist Wright under doubt; instead almost everyone else, from the system to his grandmother, to talk radio, to corporate culture, to your rabbi or priest suddenly was.
The result? This will apparently play well with a Democratic African-American audience and white elite liberals, who are already giddy and comparing the speech to Martin Luther Kings best. In this way of thinking, after all, that for the last seven years the most powerful diplomats in the world have been two African-Americans counts little (Wright, for example, slurred Sec. Rice), but that anyone would dare ask a presidential candidate to dissociate himself from a racist counts a lot.
Yet in the general election, millions will still remember how Obamas pastor and confidant Reverend Wright cursed their culture and their country, and they will still remain confused about his relationship with and influence upon their would-be next Presidentand in the end they will be very much angered by all that indeed.
Post by: roo_ster on March 19, 2008, 01:35:55 PM
Red Diaper Kid [John Derbyshire]
Having slept on the matter, I am now going to come out of the closet and declare clearly and firmly that I don't like Barack Obama one little bit.
What kind of person would traduce his grandmother (who is still alive) to score a political point? Yesterday's speech, read through in the clear light of dawn, is worse than I thought: an ugly mish-mash of ancient socialist clich?s and Gen-X spoiled-brat self-congratulation, all enveloped in clouds of flatulent Oprahnian rhetoric. Ugh!
Obama's just a red-diaper baby with a nice smile. I actually like Jeremiah Wright better than I like Obama. At least you know where you are with Wright. Obama, I wouldn't trust to mail a letter.
Having slept on the matter, I am now going to come out of the closet and declare clearly and firmly that I don't like Barack Obama one little bit.
What kind of person would traduce his grandmother (who is still alive) to score a political point? Yesterday's speech, read through in the clear light of dawn, is worse than I thought: an ugly mish-mash of ancient socialist clich?s and Gen-X spoiled-brat self-congratulation, all enveloped in clouds of flatulent Oprahnian rhetoric. Ugh!
Obama's just a red-diaper baby with a nice smile. I actually like Jeremiah Wright better than I like Obama. At least you know where you are with Wright. Obama, I wouldn't trust to mail a letter.
Post by: Sergeant Bob on March 19, 2008, 02:24:46 PM
Red Diaper Kid [John Derbyshire]
Having slept on the matter, I am now going to come out of the closet and declare clearly and firmly that I don't like Barack Obama one little bit.
What kind of person would traduce his grandmother (who is still alive) to score a political point? Yesterday's speech, read through in the clear light of dawn, is worse than I thought: an ugly mish-mash of ancient socialist clich?s and Gen-X spoiled-brat self-congratulation, all enveloped in clouds of flatulent Oprahnian rhetoric. Ugh!
Obama's just a red-diaper baby with a nice smile. I actually like Jeremiah Wright better than I like Obama. At least you know where you are with Wright. Obama, I wouldn't trust to mail a letter.
Having slept on the matter, I am now going to come out of the closet and declare clearly and firmly that I don't like Barack Obama one little bit.
What kind of person would traduce his grandmother (who is still alive) to score a political point? Yesterday's speech, read through in the clear light of dawn, is worse than I thought: an ugly mish-mash of ancient socialist clich?s and Gen-X spoiled-brat self-congratulation, all enveloped in clouds of flatulent Oprahnian rhetoric. Ugh!
Obama's just a red-diaper baby with a nice smile. I actually like Jeremiah Wright better than I like Obama. At least you know where you are with Wright. Obama, I wouldn't trust to mail a letter.
Isn't that "red diaper baby" a euphemism attributable to Michael Savage? I bet he'll be having a ball with that one on his radio show.
Post by: longeyes on March 19, 2008, 03:30:34 PM
Yes, the rhythm is different and it has a Harvard inflection but at bottom it's not that different.
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on March 19, 2008, 03:53:31 PM
Post by: Headless Thompson Gunner on March 19, 2008, 05:20:57 PM
What concerns me is that Obama seems to think that Wright's brand of perverted Christianity is the norm in the black culture. If so, we have serious problems as a nation. It's bad enough that the Wahabis on the opposite side of the globe are perverting their religion to inspire vehement anti-American racist hatred. But now, if Obama is correct, we have the exact same thing right here in our own backyard.
Interesting times, I suppose.
Post by: De Selby on March 19, 2008, 07:49:42 PM
Quote
I don't see how you could be more fair on the issue of race than he achieved in this one
Really? Comparing that hatefulness spewed from the pulpit to his grandmother, because she stereotyped and was afraid of being mugged?Yes. If you read the speech, it makes sense-resentment builds in both directions.
Denying that there is racism makes victims of racism resentful. Likewise, blaming people for racism who had nothing to do with it, and calling them racists for opposing things like affirmative action or "integrated" schooling makes people resentful. I think that was his point and it's a good one.
Will he actually solve the racial divide? Yeah right. But the fact remains that it was a good speech and it was thoughtful. Seeing people deny that about it just proves that no political movement is immune to self-serving fantasy.
It would be great if someone with Obama's policies were a bad politician who gave dumb speeches and hurt his chances of getting elected, but that's fantasy.
Post by: longeyes on March 20, 2008, 07:45:25 AM
The issue isn't whether there's racism. There definitely is. But to say that isn't to say much. Where exactly is the racism and what exactly is its impact. Too many blacks (apparently) want to blame their situation, or their feelings, on some amorphous plague of Racism. What we saw in Rev. Wright's church was mass psychopathy, not legitimate anger at injustice. As for the racism, that works two ways. How much black-on-white crime in America is hate-based--in other words, racist? And how much of the problem with black people in America is rooted in cultural issues they don't want to confront? If Obama really wants to open up this matter for serious public discussion, he's going to have to get his hands dirty--and, frankly, he doesn't look like the type.
Post by: doczinn on March 20, 2008, 04:30:43 PM
Quote
Yes. If you read the speech, it makes sense-resentment builds in both directions.
If you really don't see a difference of scale between the hateful stuff spewed by Wright and some racial stereotypes held by Obama's grandmother, there's no point in trying to explain it to you.Quote
Denying that there is racism makes victims of racism resentful. Likewise, blaming people for racism who had nothing to do with it, and calling them racists for opposing things like affirmative action or "integrated" schooling makes people resentful. I think that was his point and it's a good one.
What was the point again? Pretending that all whites are racists and that America is a racist nation is the same as being afraid a black man might mug you?Post by: De Selby on March 20, 2008, 07:18:02 PM
I believe this kind of "my resentment and race commentary is justified and righteous but theirs ain't!" business is exactly what the speech is about.
The speech did not pretend that whites are all racist. It was a fair comment-pointing out that whites rightly become resentful over affirmative action and other programs that disadvantage them when they haven't done any harm to others. At the same time, as Huckabee rightly pointed out, being discriminated against just for being black for most of his life is going to have an impact on the minister...it would on all of us.
Get over it-your resentment over discrimination is not anymore righteous or justified, or worthy of being aired, than that of others. That was the point of the speech, and it was a good one.
Post by: doczinn on March 20, 2008, 08:08:47 PM
Quote
The speech did not pretend that whites are all racist.
You completely fail to understand. The speech was made in defense of a pastor who acts as though this were true, and the speech failed to refute it. It did so by equating that with the stereotypes possibly held by his grandmother.Post by: Manedwolf on March 21, 2008, 03:51:02 AM
A typical white person. Really.
Obama is a racist. And "black democrats" just cannot let go of the hate-whites resent-whites black-panthers violent method of thought. And that's why they'll never be elected.
It's why blacks that have reached offices as high as Supreme Court Justice and Secretary of State are Republicans. Because they don't have that poisonous resentment. They know the 1960's are over. They are just Americans, like any other American.
Post by: Perd Hapley on March 21, 2008, 04:07:16 AM
Post by: johnster999 on March 21, 2008, 05:47:24 AM
In an interview yesterday, Obama referred to his grandmother as a "typical white person" in that she'd be afraid of a black man walking on the street.
A typical white person. Really.
A typical white person. Really.
I heard that. Unbelievable. Talk about digging a deeper hole for himself.
Post by: longeyes on March 21, 2008, 06:24:05 AM
Obama the Healer and Uniter is, well, mightily confused. I think O. is an interesting Faulkerian character, but he sure as hell ain't Presidential material.
Post by: French G. on March 21, 2008, 09:21:21 AM
What do I know, I'm just a typical white person. Way to step on your crank while healing the racial divide BHO.