It there an auto mechanic in the house?

[Trisha]

Aah, the joys of being a shade tree mechainc!

Understand, for most ordinary wrenching, everything short of pulling an engine of a transmission, I'm comfortably competent.  But, I've never drilled out rivets from suspension components mounted to the frame, and there's the rub that has me with aching shoulders and no little frustration!

Here's the job at hand - I have to replace the driver's side radius arm bushing on my '96 F150 4WD.  I bought the SB 4.9l a little over a year ago, and it's been absolutely trouble free, until a few weeks ago, when the left wheel started sounding like the shock was going out.  A visit to the undercarriage showed the radius arm bushing to have worn through, and vertical wheel movement was making the arm pound in the bracket.

I need to drill out three rivets that hold the bracket, and complete its removal, replacing the rivets with schedule 9 bolts.  Sometime before I bought the truck, the right side had been done, and will be little trouble pulling it to keep both sides matched; but the driver's side had only one rivet replaced before someone decided to leave it alone.

I've managed to drill through one of the rivets, but am getting a little frustrated with figuring out how to remove the stubborn bits of heads on both sides as well as clean out the chassis holes without damaging them.  A propane torch, to soften them up is out of the question, as inside the chassis channel, in the inside, are rigid brake lines that I cannot risk harming in any way (and the thought of even marginally annealing the metal is disconcerting).

So: Is anyone here experienced in this task?

I have to accomplish this myself, as the shop fees I've been quoted are prohibitive (and, unfortunately, the mechanics have been no little condesending).  A narrow cold chisel and a singlejack sledge were my tools today, but they barely made a dent (but tomorrow's another day, and if necessary will simply persevere until completion).  I worry that using a tapered blind drift will only become marvellously friction-fit, and only compound the problem.  Using a hardened drill for steel the same diameter as the hole risks frame damage, so I've stopped short of that.

Drilling up, while on my back is loads of fun, and an inexpensive pair of shatterproof goggles has saved my eyes from metal splinters, and a dust mask has protected the rest of my face.  Yes, the rear wheels are securely chocked, and each front I-beam is solidly on its own 6-ton jack stand, and a 3.5 ton service jack is the redundant support on the right side of the front diff - I am very, very careful.

Anyone?

[Nick1911]

Little at a time with a good round file.  Or, I prefer to use a dremel tool with a carbide cutter in it.  I think it actually might be a small ball end mill, but it works GREAT on stuff like this.  I used it to eat away the bolts-with-no-top holding the ignition switch on the column in my Ford Escort once.

-Nick

[Stand_watie]

It sounds like you know more than me on the topic of auto-mechanics, but I'll second Nick's suggestion of the Dremel tool. Just be sure to be wearing good eye protection.

[Trisha]

 

Can you bring one up to me?  Kathryn needs the Durango, so I'm stranded (she's back to running calls with Rescue after she gets in District - we're short of local folks to take second out, and it's been BUSY). . .

And it's an hour's walk to get to the mail box and back (not to mention the +600' change in elevation each way)!

BFH and a 1" chisel, I guess (my aching shoulders!).

Thanks!

[Stand_watie]

Can you bring one up to me?  Kathryn needs the Durango, so I'm stranded (she's back to running calls with Rescue after she gets in District - we're short of local folks to take second out, and it's been BUSY). . .

And it's an hour's walk to get to the mail box and back (not to mention the +600' change in elevation each way)!

BFH and a 1" chisel, I guess (my aching shoulders!).

Thanks!

I'm not sure where you live, but it sounds nice. If I bring my Dremel and a tent can Erica and I stay and camp a while?

[gunsmith]

Trisha, sounds like you know more then most here!

[280plus]

Try an air hammer? It might go faster. Of course you'll need an air hammer and a compressor. Rent? It might be worth the money to save your shoulders. When you're done with that would you mind coming over here and replace the starter in my E-150? Some jaboney at the local dealer broke off one of the bolts trying to remove it and I've been afraid to touch it ever since...

 

[gunsmith]

ya Trisha! also the old ford ranger I have has developed a manifold leak and lets all the coolant out and I ruined the radiator putting barrs stop leak in it...so I need a new radiator plus the manifold needs fixin....where do you live?

[Nick1911]

Can you bring one up to me?  Kathryn needs the Durango, so I'm stranded (she's back to running calls with Rescue after she gets in District - we're short of local folks to take second out, and it's been BUSY). . .

And it's an hour's walk to get to the mail box and back (not to mention the +600' change in elevation each way)!

BFH and a 1" chisel, I guess (my aching shoulders!).

Thanks!

Maybe - do you live within an hour of Lafayette, IN?

-Nick

[Stickjockey]

Trisha, Trisha, trisha- you call yourself a shade-tree mechanic, yet you don't have a Dremel? For shame, I tell you! Must get a Dremel, post haste!

I've got one of these, it works terrifically:
http:www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=40457

[charby]

Trisha

I have a 4.5" angle grinder that I take rivets off with, I'll be doing the same on upper and lower ball joints on my Jimmy one the weather gets a little warmer.

I've used the angle grinder to cut rivets off door handles from inside the door, cut stubborn bolts off and burns through exhaust clamps.

Plus you can pick up a sander disk for it and use it for body work if needed.

Good luck with the rivets, if you were near central Iowa I'd come cut them off for you for some beer.

-Charby

[Art Eatman]

"Using a hardened drill for steel the same diameter as the hole risks frame damage..."

Odds are that you wouldn't enlarge the holes enough to hurt, if the bit drifts off-center.  If it were just one, well, maybe; but with three I imagine the three bolts will hold well enough.

I'd just drill as much as possible, and then alternate the mix of round file and chisel/hammer.

If there is any air gap between the brake lines and the frame, using a torch with the flame directed parallel to the frame rail wouldn't harm the lines.  You wouldn't be heating the frame itself; just the rivet.  I'm not sure, though, that a propane torch would get the rivet hot enough to reduce its hardness.

Generally, frame-rail steel is tough, not hard.  "Mild steel".

If you can grind off the head of the rivet on one side, though, it should just take a punch to drive the remains out of the way...

Just some ideas...

Art

[roo_ster]

Looks like you done good, so far. 

Dremels are cheap & useful tools.  They can be ordered over the net.  Careful, though, they can do great damage if brought in the vicinity of firearms.

Another fine tool is the 1/2" hammer drill.  It makes tough drilling jobs much easier.

Consumer-grade dremels and hammer drills are pretty cheap, too.

I have done what Art describes (using full-diameter drill bit) and things have turned out just peachy.  For some operations, I will buy the cheapest steel bit in the (possibly wrong) hope that the cheap steel bit will do less damage if it goes off-line.

I have also used dremel cut-off disks and dremel slim grinder/stone bits to go after rivets from the inside-out.

Good luck.





BTW, mechanics that give gals a hard time are lunkheads.

[mtnbkr]

BTW, mechanics that give gals a hard time are lunkheads.

Absolutely. I won't do business with a shop if they don't treat my wife well regardless of the quality of their work.

BTW, years ago, the wife of the owner of they shop I used to take my Beetle to was telling me how the mechanics used to give her crap when she first started helping out around the shop (when I met her, she was up to doing repair work and assisting customers with resto related issues).  One day, they told her they needed some blinker fluid (or some other nonsensical product).  After embarrasing herself at the auto parts place, she came back and decked the mechanic.

Chris

[280plus]

I'm not sure, though, that a propane torch would get the rivet hot enough to reduce its hardness.

I concur, no way propane will get it hot enough.

[Trisha]

No, I don't own a Dremel - and I was just kidding with the request someone mail one to me!

I was considering MAP gas, not propane - it burns quite at a higher temp due to the acetlyne mixture.  I've easily soldered, using .999 pure silver with it in the past, and gave it a passing question mark for this application.

Renting an air hammer and compressor?  Something to investigate, but doubtful in the area's resource - and driving 50 miles one way to try and wheedle a clerk in a different county has proven to be an exercise in futility.

The small angle grinder sounds promising, and might, just might be available at the local rent-a-tool.

It's driving Kathryn to frustration to not be able to get down there and help, but the angles and torques involved make it out of the question as she can never stress the disc and vertebrae immediately above the surgery or the SHTF major league enough so that it would make her previous repair seem minor according to her surgeon.

You guys do understand the rivets I'm referring to have close to an inch in diameter heads, I suppose.  (Having never tackled this, they seem more than large enough).

Many thanks for all the feedback - and thanks, too, for the grins at the non-mechanically inclined references to other waiting projects here and there.

Oh, Stand_waite?  Camping in our front yard would see you and Erica confronting an irate little family group of about 7-9 mule deer who bed down out there.  We have another family group of fox, and yet another of raccoon, not to mention the territorial mountain lioness and occasional elk who would inquire within.  There are loads more homes built up here since Y2K loomed and folks thought civilization would end, though most are vacant (unimproved roads, desperately poor county - no real infrastructure save rural electricity and phones back here).

Just about heaven, this time of year (fire season hasn't begun yet, and there's still time before tourist season/end of classes for the school kids).

Home is outside of Bailey, CO (N till the road ends, and then turn left).

Time to get back to chores before heading to the garage.

[Nick1911]

...4.5" angle grinder that I take rivets off with...

+1 to this idea.  If you have the room to work an angle grinder will make short work of a rivet head.  Just be careful to not go too deep.  I bought my angle grinder several years ago from Tractor Supply for $10.  I'm abused the crap out of it, but it's still going strong!  IIRC it was made by "clarke"

-Nick

[Sindawe]

When a bolt holding the upper control arm to the frame of my first Monte snapped one day, drilling and pounding was the way I got the freaking thing out so I could replace it.  Took a few days of fustration and work, but one day it just sorta fell out.  Replaced it with the highest grade bolt I could lay my hands on, and that only long enough to drive it the 2.5 miles to a repair shop for a proper replacement and alignment.

...4.5" angle grinder that I take rivets off with...

2nd on that.  My then brother in law used an angle grinder to CUT the frame engine mounts out of a car to use on another when we swapped engines and the mounts did not line up.  He ran that car for another 4 or five years with no issues on the engine mounts.

[280plus]

Not to be a party pooper but Mapp probably won't be hot enough either, you really need oxy/acetylene to melt or even soften steel. I'd have to agree grinding the heads off might be your best choice, as long as you can get the grinder in there. My brother took the crossmembers out of his Bronco frame, I'll try to get ahold of him tonight and ask how he got the rivets out. IIRC he used a grinder.

[Tallpine]

I'm late to the party, but the angle grinder was what I was going to suggest also.

As Art says, grind off one head of the rivet flush with the frame/bracket, then drive out the rivet with punch and hammer.

Otherwise, find yourself an old 73-87 Chevy or GMC pickup with the solid front axle and leaf springs ...

[caseydog]

I've done a few with the grinder method , typically even after grinding off the heads you have to drill a small hole through the rivet before it will pound out of the frame. Trisha , just so you're prepared sometimes you need a cable puller or "come along" to pull the axle forward or back a bit to get your bolt holes to line up.

Ray

[RocketMan]

I have to ask, what happens after the rivets are removed?  What are they replaced with?  High grade bolts of some sort, Grade 8 or something better?
Or should the rivets be replaced?
Just curious as this is not something I have done before.

[charby]

I have to ask, what happens after the rivets are removed?  What are they replaced with?  High grade bolts of some sort, Grade 8 or something better?
Or should the rivets be replaced?
Just curious as this is not something I have done before.

The ball joints come with bolts that replace the rivets, I believe the rivets are easier for robots to put in place than bolts and nuts at the factory.

-C

[RocketMan]

Thanks for the info, Charby.  One of these days I may run into that problem.
(And I, unlike a certain self-proclaimed shade tree mechanic, have a Dremel tool!  )

[Trisha]

The rivets get replaced with grade 9 bolts.

caseydog, with the radius arm nuts already removed, and the old bushings prised free there isn't any torque on the mounts as the I-beams are independently supported and the bottom shock mounting bolts are removed.  I'm loath to torque the axle longitudinally at all, as that can damage the upper I-beam pivot bushings (though, surprisingly, some load that to such a degree as to completely free the radius arm from the bracket entirely to bypass removing said bracket!).

A new Bosch angle grinder is en-route, as well as a short stack of cut-off discs, BTW.  A local aquaintence who asks for match-grade handloads is a welder, and wholeheartedly recommended an angle grinder, adding that a 6 amp is more manageable for cramped spaces than going for the 12 amp choices (on my back on a Bonester creeper - outstanding item, that - with about 10 inches between me and the 5/8ths dia rivets, I was appreciative for that bit of practical advice), and the majority of said models run 'bout twice the smaller ones.

Once this repair is completed, I plan on stress-relieving the entire frame before taking it in to get the alignment professionally done.

Four Rancho RS5000 shocks are in the future, when the truck goes in for new Goodyear Wrangler SilentArmor tires.

Kathryn's '01 Durango gets new ceramic brakes, with slotted front discs and armored brake lines first, though (and a Yellow Top Optima battery).

The hot tub continues to be a recuperative resource; and Advil is my friend!

 

I still managed to roast coffee yesterday, as well as making two loaves of sourdough. . .