Abuse has worsened in Gitmo since Obama

[Jocassee]

Not sure what to think about this one, gentlemen.

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE51O3TB20090225?sp=true

By Luke Baker

LONDON (Reuters) - Abuse of prisoners at Guantanamo Bay has worsened sharply since President Barack Obama took office as prison guards "get their kicks in" before the camp is closed, according to a lawyer who represents detainees.

Abuses began to pick up in December after Obama was elected, human rights lawyer Ahmed Ghappour told Reuters. He cited beatings, the dislocation of limbs, spraying of pepper spray into closed cells, applying pepper spray to toilet paper and over-forcefeeding detainees who are on hunger strike.

The Pentagon said on Monday that it had received renewed reports of prisoner abuse during a recent review of conditions at Guantanamo, but had concluded that all prisoners were being kept in accordance with the Geneva Conventions.

"According to my clients, there has been a ramping up in abuse since President Obama was inaugurated," said Ghappour, a British-American lawyer with Reprieve, a legal charity that represents 31 detainees at Guantanamo.

"If one was to use one's imagination, (one) could say that these traumatized, and for lack of a better word barbaric, guards were just basically trying to get their kicks in right now for fear that they won't be able to later," he said.

"Certainly in my experience there have been many, many more reported incidents of abuse since the inauguration," added Ghappour, who has visited Guantanamo six times since late September and based his comments on his own observations and conversations with both prisoners and guards.

He stressed the mistreatment did not appear to be directed from above, but was an initiative undertaken by frustrated U.S. army and navy jailers on the ground. It did not seem to be a reaction against the election of Obama, a Democrat who has pledged to close the prison camp within a year, but rather a realization that there was little time remaining before the last 241 detainees, all Muslim, are released.

"It's 'hey, let's have our fun while we can,'" said Ghappour, who helped secure the release this week of Binyam Mohamed, a British resident freed from Guantanamo Bay after more than four years in detention without trial or charge.

"I can't really imagine why you would get your kicks from abusing prisoners, but certainly, having spoken to certain guards who have been injured in Iraq, who indirectly or directly blame my clients for their injuries and the trauma they have suffered, it's not too difficult to put two and two together."

FORCE-FEEDING

Following a January 22 order from Obama, the U.S. Defense Department conducted a two-week review of conditions at Guantanamo ahead of the planned closure of the prison on Cuba.

Admiral Patrick Walsh, the review's author, acknowledged on Monday that reports of abuse had emerged but concluded all inmates were being treated in line with the Geneva Conventions.

"We heard allegations of abuse," he said, asked if detainees had reported torture. "And what we did at that point was to go back and investigate the allegation... What we found is that there were in some cases substantiated evidence where guards had misconduct, I think that would be the best way to put it."

Walsh said his review looked at 20 allegations of abuse, 14 of which were substantiated, but he did not go into details. Generally he said the abuse ranged from "gestures, comments, disrespect" to "preemptive use of pepper spray."

Ghappour said he had spoken to army guards who, unsolicited, had described the pleasure they took in abusing prisoners, whether interrupting prayer or physical mistreatment. He said they appeared unconcerned about potential repercussions.

He also saw evidence of guards pulling identity numbers off their uniforms or switching them once they were on duty in order to make it more difficult for them to be identified.

Ghappour said he had filed two complaints of serious detainee abuse since December 22 but received no response from U.S. authorities. In one case his client had his knee, shoulder and thumb dislocated by a group of guards, Ghappour said.

In one of the six main camps at Guantanamo, the lawyer said all the detainees he knew were on hunger strike and subject to force-feeding, including with laxatives that induced chronic diarrhea while they were strapped in their feeding chairs.

"Several of my clients have had toilet paper pepper-sprayed while they have had hemorrhoids," Ghappour said.

Another area of concern was evidence that detainees were being abused on the way to meetings with their lawyers -- sometimes so badly that they no longer wanted to meet with counsel for fear of the beatings they would receive, he said.

"Some detainees are convinced they are going to be locked up there forever, despite the promises to close the camp," he said.

(Additional reporting by Randall Mikkelsen and Andrew Gray in Washington, editing by Mark Trevelyan)

Maybe more reports are coming in because the detainees terrorists think their pleas will be heard now that a Liberal sympathetic regime is in power.

[MechAg94]

So it is all based on the word of one lawyer who represents detainees.  Too many people in opposition to the WOT and Gitmo have just flat out lied for me to believe much of it without more proof. 

[Leatherneck]

Ahmed Ghappour told Reuters

Ahmed? Reuters? Credibility?

TC

[Jocassee]

Ahmed? Reuters? Credibility?

TC

I wonder if there's a government source to track these.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Ahmed? Reuters? Credibility?

TC

My thoughts exactly.

[lone_gunman]

These kinds of accusations won't stop til the prison at Gitmo is closed. 

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

No, they probably won't.

[Balog]

I laughed when I saw the "abuse" listed. Gestures, comments, and disrespect? "Oh my God they flipped the terrorists the bird! Human rights violation!!!!!" Where'd I put that facepalm ascii.....

[seeker_two]

These kinds of accusations won't stop til the prison at Gitmo is closed. 

...and the detainees are relocated 20 miles offshore and 200 feet down....

[PTK]

...and the detainees are relocated 20 miles offshore and 200 feet down....

How very American of you.

"Let's execute all these prisoners, since the government said they're bad."

Have they all had trials, yet?

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

i had to snicker at "interrupted prayers " as a type of abuse

[Jamisjockey]

How very American of you.

"Let's execute all these prisoners, since the government said they're bad."

Have they all had trials, yet?

I took it to mean he was saying that even when Gitmo is shut down we're going to keep hearing stories from (former) detainees about how they were allegedly abused.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

200 feet down left me thinking deep six

[RevDisk]

I laughed when I saw the "abuse" listed. Gestures, comments, and disrespect? "Oh my God they flipped the terrorists the bird! Human rights violation!!!!!" Where'd I put that facepalm ascii.....

I notice you didn't mention the beatings and dislocations of limbs. 

I knew plenty of correction officers and MP's.  Most of the time, I am inclined to give them the benefit of a doubt.  But one still must keep on eye on complaints and do investigations to make sure the guards aren't going off the reservation, so to speak.  We have rules and laws on treatment of prisoners.  They are in place for a damn good reason.  We should be following them.  We should also be canning anyone who is incapable of following the rules.  IF rules are indeed being broken. 

This is America, not the Soviet Union.  I do wonder why so many people want to turn the former into the latter.  Rule of law and humane treatment of prisoners are part of the package, even if you don't like the people they are being applied to.  Call it a price of freedom.

[seeker_two]

How very American of you.

"Let's execute all these prisoners, since the government said they're bad."

Have they all had trials, yet?

Well, considering that most of them were taken into custody on the battlefield actively engaging in hostile activities against coalition troops (not just US soldiers), I think the "deep-six" option is a viable one....though I'd more strongly support a "20,000 leagues under the sea" relocation....

[RevDisk]

Well, considering that most of them were taken into custody on the battlefield actively engaging in hostile activities against coalition troops (not just US soldiers), I think the "deep-six" option is a viable one....though I'd more strongly support a "20,000 leagues under the sea" relocation....

Odd, the DoD doesn't seem to agree with you.  Allegedly roughly 775 detainees have been sent to Gitmo.  Roughly 420 have been released with no charge.  Roughly 270 detainees remain.   20% of remaining detainees are cleared for release, but their home countries don't want them back. 

3 detainees have been convicted of crimes.  The US eventually intends to charge a total of around 60 more detainees.


Granted, the next bit is entirely hearsay.  Folks I still talk to from ye olde Army days explained to me that many (maybe most) detainees were handed over by third parties in exchange for reward money.  This has netted us some real high value intelligence.  However, it has also netted us a very large number of people who were not guilty of much if anything, but primarily the captors wanted the reward money and invented stories.  The other supply of detainees handed over by locals are results of personal or clan grudges. 

[De Selby]

I don't think there's any room for dispute that at least some of the prisoners there were tortured, as in, USSR/chinese water torture tortured almost to death.

The parties who were involved in that activity should be charged and sentenced just the same as anyone who tortures a US soldier.

[MechAg94]

I don't think there's any room for dispute that at least some of the prisoners there were tortured, as in, USSR/chinese water torture tortured almost to death.

The parties who were involved in that activity should be charged and sentenced just the same as anyone who tortures a US soldier.

But that has nothing to do with the article or why we should believe the guy about his new accusations. 

[Seenterman]

Well, considering that most of them were taken into custody on the battlefield actively engaging in hostile activities against coalition troops (not just US soldiers), I think the "deep-six" option is a viable one....though I'd more strongly support a "20,000 leagues under the sea" relocation....

Wow. Basically that translates to yea kill them all, they were accused of terrorism by our gov. screw trials and evidence. You do know a US citizen can be declared an enemy combatant, its only happened once with Jose Padilla, but would you also advocate summery execution of a US citizen accused of terrorism. If not why are foreign citizens lives worth that much less?  Why do we even waste money on trials for civilian criminals them? If their caught in the commission of a crime send them strait to jail, no judge no jury, no appeals. Cause hey their guilty why waste our time and money.

And how do you know 

that most of them were taken into custody on the battlefield actively engaging in hostile activities against coalition troops (not just US soldiers),

have you read some report on how each detainee was captured? Or is that just assumption?

[Scout26]

I don't think there's any room for dispute that at least some of the prisoners there were tortured, as in, USSR/chinese water torture tortured almost to death.

The parties who were involved in that activity should be charged and sentenced just the same as anyone who tortures a US soldier.

Farking Prove It.

[RevDisk]

...and the detainees are relocated 20 miles offshore and 200 feet down....

Careful.  There are no provisions differentiating US citizen and non US citizen when it comes to "enemy combatants".  Some day, that term may be applied to a much larger catagory of persons.  The primary concern I have with the whole Gitmo and secret prison thing isn't due to foreign persons.  I'm just aware that governments are generally more vicious towards their own citizens on the long haul than towards foreign enemies.  In the 20th century, significantly more people were killed by their own government than those killed during war.  Maybe the 21st century will be different.  Hopefully.


The numbers already show the overwhelming majority of detainees were guilty of nothing and released without any charges.  Summary execution of detainees or prisoners becoming SOP for any branch of our government would be a fairly dangerous thing.  (Yes, I know there are combat related provisions related to summary executions.)   

[Jamisjockey]

Careful.  There are no provisions differentiating US citizen and non US citizen when it comes to "enemy combatants".  Some day, that term may be applied to a much larger catagory of persons.  The primary concern I have with the whole Gitmo and secret prison thing isn't due to foreign persons.  I'm just aware that governments are generally more vicious towards their own citizens on the long haul than towards foreign enemies.  In the 20th century, significantly more people were killed by their own government than those killed during war.  Maybe the 21st century will be different.  Hopefully.
 

That's always been my primary objection to Gitmo.  My second objection is that human rights should be extended to everyone we come in contact with, or we are no longer better than them.  We lose our moral superiority as a people when we treat others as lessers.  And by doing so, we set our selves up for moral decay. 

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

I don't think there's any room for dispute that at least some of the prisoners there were tortured, as in, USSR/chinese water torture tortured almost to death.

The parties who were involved in that activity should be charged and sentenced just the same as anyone who tortures a US soldier.

Substantiate these claims. 

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

That's always been my primary objection to Gitmo.  My second objection is that human rights should be extended to everyone we come in contact with, or we are no longer better than them.  We lose our moral superiority as a people when we treat others as lessers.  And by doing so, we set our selves up for moral decay. 

It's normal and natural and proper to treat those who are a threat to you as less.  Otherwise there'd be no justification for defending yourself with force.

Would you not treat a mugger attacking you less favorably than you'd treat your wife?

You do not lose your moral superiority when you protect yourself.

[Jamisjockey]

It's normal and natural and proper to treat those who are a threat to you as less.  Otherwise there'd be no justification for defending yourself with force.

Would you not treat a mugger attacking you less favorably than you'd treat your wife?

You do not lose your moral superiority when you protect yourself.

No, but even the common mugger gets a trial in this country.  We don't ship him off to some prison and hold him indefinitely.  If the law of our land isn't good enough, then what in the hell are we defending?