FBI: Mexicans chased away US agents after shooting?

[Ryan in Maine]

Does anyone have more info on this case? We've got both sides pointing fingers despite being in agreement on things statistically.

We've got an unknown number of people throwing rocks at US Border Patrol agents during a potential apprehension and an agent responding with deadly force.

We've got unknown Mexican authorities drawing on US Border Patrol agents in a confusing and contentious border standoff.

We've got more rock/firecracker throwing taking place after the shooting.

We've got Mexican authorities drawing again, from across the border, during the stateside investigation.

Whaaat is going on?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/border_patrol_shooting

By CHRISTOPHER SHERMAN and OLIVIA TORRES, Associated Press Writers Christopher Sherman And Olivia Torres, Associated Press Writers   – 1 hr 12 mins ago

CIUDAD JUAREZ, Mexico – Pointing their rifles, Mexican security forces chased away U.S. authorities investigating the shooting of a 15-year-old Mexican by a U.S. Border Patrol agent on the banks of the Rio Grande, the FBI and witnesses told The Associated Press on Wednesday.

The killing of the Mexican by U.S. authorities — the second in less than two weeks — has exposed the distrust between the two countries that lies just below the surface, and has enraged Mexicans who see the death of the boy on Mexican soil as an act of murder.

Mexico's government says the number of Mexicans injured by U.S. immigration authorities has increased this year.

Shortly after the boy was shot, Mexican soldiers arrived at the scene and pointed their guns at the Border Patrol agents across the riverbank while bystanders screamed insults and hurled rocks and firecrackers, FBI spokeswoman Andrea Simmons said. She said the agents were forced to withdraw.

"It pretty quickly got very intense over on the Mexican side," she said, adding that FBI agents showed up later and resumed the investigation, even as Mexican authorities pointed guns at them from across the river.

Hernandez was found 20 feet (six meters) into Mexico, and an autopsy revealed that the fatal shot was fired at a relatively close range, according to Arturo Sandoval, a spokesman for the Chihuahua state attorney general's office. Mexican authorities said a .40 caliber shell casing was found near the body, suggesting that the Border Patrol agent might have crossed into Mexico to shoot the boy.

That would violate the rules for Border Patrol agents, who are supposed to stay on the U.S. side — and could open the agent to a Mexican homicide prosecution.

A U.S. official close to the investigation told the AP that authorities have a video showing that the Border Patrol agent did not cross into Mexico. In fact, the official said, the video shows what appear to be members of Mexican law enforcement crossing onto the U.S. side, picking something up and returning to Mexico. The official was not cleared to speak about the video and spoke only on condition of anonymity.

Mexican President Felipe Calderon pledged to "use all resources available to protect the rights of Mexican migrants," and his foreign secretary, Patricia Espinosa, said Mexico wasn't taking the Americans' word that the Border Patrol agent had been defending himself from rock-throwers when he opened fire.

Chihuahua state Gov. Jose Reyes Baeza blamed the two killings on racism fueled by Arizona's law.

"We believe that this killing, the second in recent days in the border between the two countries, is due to xenophobia and racism, derived from the approval of Arizona's anti-immigration law," Reyes said.

Mexico's Foreign Relations Department said its records indicate the number of Mexicans killed or wounded by immigration authorities rose from five in 2008 to 12 in 2009 to 17 so far this year, which is not half over. However, two killings in such a short period is rare.

Meanwhile, the Border Patrol released statistics showing that assaults on agents along the border between El Paso, Texas, and Ciudad Juarez, Mexico, were on pace to far exceed totals in the previous four years.

In the past seven months, Border Patrol agents in the El Paso sector have been assaulted 33 times, compared with 39 times in the entire previous year. Twenty-nine of those incidents were rock-throwing, compared to 31 such incidents in all of fiscal 2009.

Associated Press Writer Julie Watson in San Diego contributed to this report.

[taurusowner]

Build the wall.  50 feet high and 20 ft into the ground, solid concrete 5 ft thick.  THEN mine our side of it.

[Zardozimo Oprah Bannedalas]

It seems to me that we have to go to the root of the problem, which is the screwed up nature of Mexico. They support the flow of illegal immigrants to the US, since they send back massive amounts of cash. Would it be (legally) possible to stop the flow of money back to Mexico?
That would make the illegal immigration situation a bit more palatable, as US dollars would stay in the US, and Mexico's second largest source of income (IIRC) would dry up. Then again, that income drying up could cause Mexico to turn into a Spanish-speaking Somalia - with all the trouble they're having with the cartels.

[seeker_two]

1. Remind the Mexican "authorities" that bullets can travel both ways across the border.

2. Build the wall.  Supplement with unmanned drones and sniper positions.

3. Start deporting Mexican citizens in the US illegally from this country back to Mexico. When they're dropped off at the border, give them a rifle and 1000 rounds of ammo and tell them to fix their own country first....

[Matthew Carberry]

They appear to have removed shell casings from our side to theirs to try to show that our guys crossed the river to shoot the kids.

But we have the video.

[kgbsquirrel]

They appear to have removed shell casings from our side to theirs to try to show that our guys crossed the river to shoot the kids.

But we have the video.

Don'tcha just love manufactured evidence? Is the video posted anywhere?

[RaspberrySurprise]

"It's partially standing up to voice our concerns about this very unequal response to people throwing rocks," said Yolanda Leyva, a history professor at the University of Texas-El Paso who spoke at the vigil. The gathering also showed solidarity with the people of Juarez and called for a thorough investigation, she said.

Seems like there's always at least one useful idiot willing to say how the rock throwers were just innocent choir boys standing up to the evils of The Man and were totally harmless.

Rock throwing is lethal force, a well thrown rock to the head can kill or severely injure very easily. Not to mention that throwing rocks at men with guns is extremely stupid, in this case it turned out to be terminally stupid for one person.

It'll be interesting how Obama handles this, I fully expect him to throw the border patrol agents to the wolves of Mexico, any of them that go across that border are not coming back again for a long long time, if ever.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Is the video posted anywhere?

strangely no

[HankB]

Is the video posted anywhere?

strangely no

Not so strangely . . . after all, it would probably inflame passions and arouse anger against our friends to the South. Unless someone in fed.gov leaks the video, don't hold your breath waiting to see it . . .

[Fly320s]

The video shouldn't be "leaked" since it is evidence in a criminal investigation.

[AJ Dual]

Those of you who are going on about "make them fix Mexico" etc. instead of coming here are right on the money.

And that's the reason the .govs on BOTH sides of the border are not serious about making more than pro-forma displays of border control.

Mexico practices "win-lose" capitalism. They believe they need their poor underclass to stay where it is for their society to function. And there are institutional barriers to individual economic improvement. And Mexico likes to point fingers at the U.S. for slavery, and the history of Black/White problems here, but Mexico is a very divided nation, the darker you are, and the more Native blood you have, the lower you are, while the lighter and more Spaniard you are, the higher. And of course, add to that narco-terror, and massive corruption/kleptocracy, and what Mexico looks like is not hard to understand.

By comparison, the U.S. at least tries to practice win-win capitalism. We believe if a poor person makes good, it's great, they're no longer a burden on society, and they generate even more economic activity which creates opportunity and business for even more people. We may have barriers to this in the form of the welfare state, and "progressive" tax policy, but it's not an American cultural value that the "poor should stay where they are". As a rule, we all wish they WOULD get ahead.

So in Mexico, anyone with the gumption to "do something about it" comes here to the U.S. instead of demanding reform, or causing revolution. This is a HUGE pressure-relief valve for Mexico to maintain the status-quo, and of course their .gov knows this, to the point they openly criticize any enforcement of the U.S. border, and even provides maps and safety advice to the people trying to leave. 

IMO, the powers that be here in the U.S. put up with it because they fear that a real crackdown on the illegals would raise the pressure-cooker effect in Mexico, and what would result might be very much NOT to their liking, and look something more like Venezuela or Cuba.

Meh... I'd take the chance.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

don't you hate those cameras?  bet this agent does.
http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/06/10/texas.border.patrol.shooting/index.html?eref=rss_topstories&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+rss%2Fcnn_topstories+%28RSS%3A+Top+Stories%29&utm_content=Google+Feedfetcher

[Jocassee]

Build the frakkin' wall.

[Racehorse]

And Mexico likes to point fingers at the U.S. for slavery, and the history of Black/White problems here, but Mexico is a very divided nation, the darker you are, and the more Native blood you have, the lower you are, while the lighter and more Spaniard you are, the higher.

This. I find accusations of racism and xenophobia coming from Mexican officials to be laughable. It's one of the more racist and xenophobic places I've visited. I also love the border hypocrisy. Mexico conveniently forgets how it treats people trying to enter its southern border illegally.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-VYvQPA1o8

[roo_ster]

Well, that's one border-hopper who won't be border-hopping any time soon.

[longeyes]

I can't verify this, but I heard this morning that the 15-year-old was a well-known human smuggler, not some innocent victim.

***

Problems like the one we have with Mexico are ultimately settled by one side or the other "absorbing" the other, on its terms.  That is a nice word for vanquishing.  The reality is that we are at war with Mexico.  Right now, for a complex confluence of reasons, some economic, some political, some "moral," Mexico is winning this war.  It remains to be seen whether America has the spine to do what is necessary to accept what's happening and save itself.

[Ron]

I can't verify this, but I heard this morning that the 15-year-old was a well-known human smuggler, not some innocent victim.

But I saw a quote where his mother said he was a nice and loved young man who never was in any trouble  

I suspect the miscreants know not to throw rocks at Mexican soldiers and police or else.

[AZRedhawk44]

But I saw a quote where his mother said he was a nice and loved young man who never was in any trouble  

Never in any trouble because he never got caught by the police he was harrassing, before.

Deliberate border-hopping to taunt police and flaunt the law.  Yep.  No trouble at all, there.

I'm also hearing mixed rumors that he was an associate of smugglers.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

i read a statement from the bp that said their agent was surrounded by stone throwers.  then i saw a video that makes ya wonder if they learned nothing from campeon and ramos

[zxcvbob]

It'll be interesting how Obama handles this.

Do you really have to ask?  Before the facts are in, he'll apologize.   

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

thats ironic  you watch the vid yet?

[AZRedhawk44]

i read a statement from the bp that said their agent was surrounded by stone throwers.  then i saw a video that makes ya wonder if they learned nothing from campeon and ramos

I also saw a video, filmed from the Mexican side of the border.

4 kids ran back to the Mexico side as a BP officer rode in the area on a bike.  One kid was detained and the agent was pulling him, then the agent went to his knees.  The video is too grainy and unsteady to make out any objects being thrown, but I assume this is when the rock throwing starts.  He points his gun towards the train bridge where the kid who gets shot is hiding.  

Then the video changes contrast for some unknown reason and everything goes ultra black/white, whereas it used to be color.  Two gunshots.

Then the video returns to normal color.

The officer was not "surrounded" as in a dozen people stoning him like Mary Magdalene, but it does appear he was getting assaulted from multiple directions by rock throwers.  He sweeps a 45 to 90 degree arc with his gun while crouching defensively.

[AJ Dual]

Alone, middle of the desert, multiple people throwing rocks bigger than pebbles?

Oh yeah, I'd shoot. 

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Alone, middle of the desert, multiple people throwing rocks bigger than pebbles?

Oh yeah, I'd shoot. 

darn shame he wasn't alone in the middle of the desert. and some of the witnesses are problematic.  now that one tape is out i expect the gov to show theirs if it helps