Cop or Soldier?

[wmenorr67]

"And if they do, we already have an organization to deal with the situation: it's called the National Guard. "


who can tell us why this is a fail? 

Not following your question there.

[Zardozimo Oprah Bannedalas]

who can tell us why this is a fail?

Posse Comitatus doesn't apply to National Guard working under orders of the governor of their state.

[Jamisjockey]

Actually there are lots of times that a lightly armored APC comes in real handy in a stand off situation.  They work great if you have to go in and rescue civilians and/or wounded out from the line of fire.

North hollywood shoot out for one.  Several times they tried to rescue wounded people and were beat back by the robbers overwhelming firepower.



Of course, there is already a vehicle in production that fits the bill.  Money transport armored truck or van.
Were I the police chief and the SWAT commander wanted an APC, I'd kick him in the jimmy and make him requsisition one of these





High front bumper for ramming gates, running boards for deploying swat police in a hurry.  And the first person that tried to mount a machine gun on it would get said machine gun inserted rectally.


Utah county SWAT van



Perfect use of police dollars there.

This, however, is *expletive deleted*ing insane

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Posse Comitatus doesn't apply to National Guard working under orders of the governor of their state.

getting warmer
why would that shoe not fit this foot?  think time

[wmenorr67]

I'm not following you CandS.

The National Guard called out under the orders of the governor may have police powers.  We had them while we were in NO after Katrina.  The 82nd, who also was there couldn't even load ammo in their magazines unless they were in direct threat of their lives.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

gov has to declare a state of emergency for that.  many cop applications for an armored vehicle would be over before they could get the focus group together. i know it ruffles a certain demographic but when they roll one of those puppys into the front yard of a crack house it tends to discourage the stupid from getting froggy. keeps everyone intact

[wmenorr67]

gov has to declare a state of emergency for that.  many cop applications for an armored vehicle would be over before they could get the focus group together. i know it ruffles a certain demographic but when they roll one of those puppys into the front yard of a crack house it tends to discourage the stupid from getting froggy. keeps everyone intact

I agree and trust me when the National Guard is out it is an emergency and people know that we come loaded for bear.

But at the same time the over use of "military" weapons, tactics and tools by police force is one of the reasons that people don't trust them.  Not saying that there isn't a time in place for their use.  Just not every time someone calls out for a kitten in a tree.

[Jamisjockey]

I agree and trust me when the National Guard is out it is an emergency and people know that we come loaded for bear.

But at the same time the over use of "military" weapons, tactics and tools by police force is one of the reasons that people don't trust them.  Not saying that there isn't a time in place for their use.  Just not every time someone calls out for a kitten in a tree.

Amen.  Or, when the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a nail.
This is why we've got police departments with shoot on sight orders in reference to dogs during raids.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

I agree and trust me when the National Guard is out it is an emergency and people know that we come loaded for bear.

But at the same time the over use of "military" weapons, tactics and tools by police force is one of the reasons that people don't trust them.  Not saying that there isn't a time in place for their use.  Just not every time someone calls out for a kitten in a tree.

agreed
 a machine gun turret?  only for real cops like sheriff joe. the armored vehicles?  they seem to be the same kinda kryptonite to folks of a certain persuasion as evil black guns with the shoulder thingy that goes up is to the mcCarthy's of this world.
the recent case of the park ranger gunned down is a good example of a case where one would be useful
this
http://www.metafilter.com/101862/Were-they-Above-The-Law-or-Out-For-Justice


not so much so

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

"This is why we've got police departments with shoot on sight orders in reference to dogs during raids."
  got a source for that one?  i looked

[wmenorr67]

I know several departments that want/need APC's and other military equipment because they are going to be outgunned otherwise in certain situations.

[BridgeRunner]

I know several departments that want/need APC's and other military equipment because they are going to be outgunned otherwise in certain situations.

And that is a problem. The solution, however, should not be militirization of police. Perhaps if police weren't fighting the war on drugs, they wouldn't be coming up against military-grade violence quite so often.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

And that is a problem. The solution, however, should not be militirization of police. Perhaps if police weren't fighting the war on drugs, they wouldn't be coming up against military-grade violence quite so often.

is there a viable solution there or are you channeling my wife and just saying "i don't like that!" without offering an alternative?  and contrary to what you read on lew rockwell or what al jones says there are plenty of non drug war uses.  they get use more often than the tower fire trucks do

[BridgeRunner]

is there a viable solution there or are you channeling my wife and just saying "i don't like that!" without offering an alternative?  and contrary to what you read on lew rockwell or what al jones says there are plenty of non drug war uses.  they get use more often than the tower fire trucks do

I have no doubt they are used regularly. See Jamis above on the nail/hammer analogy.

To extend the analogy: When all you've got is misogyny, everything a woman says starts to look stupid. Yeah, it doesn't fit quite as well, but hey, my brains must have leaked out my vagina when I turned twelve.

Astonishingly, the grammar and punctuation synapses remained intact. Weird.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

I have no doubt they are used regularly. See Jamis above on the nail/hammer analogy.

To extend the analogy: When all you've got is misogyny, everything a woman says starts to look stupid. Yeah, it doesn't fit quite as well, but hey, my brains must have leaked out my vagina when I turned twelve.

Astonishingly, the grammar and punctuation synapses remained intact. Weird.

so thats a no? as to your viable alternative

[BridgeRunner]

so thats a no? as to your viable alternative

Nope, but you have lost any reasonable expectation you may have had of hearing my thoughts on the matter.  Speak to me civilly and I'll be happy to discuss topics of mutual interest. Act like a jackass, and I'm gone. You tend to prefer echo chambers for your "debates" anyway, don't you?

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

i am chagrined the world will be denied that solution you are holding out on

[makattak]

Nope, but you have lost any reasonable expectation you may have had of hearing my thoughts on the matter.  Speak to me civilly and I'll be happy to discuss topics of mutual interest. Act like a jackass, and I'm gone. You tend to prefer echo chambers for your "debates" anyway, don't you?

Of all the things you can rightfully accuse c&s's Daddy of, wanting an echo chamber for his debates is not one of them.

[Jamisjockey]

is there a viable solution there or are you channeling my wife and just saying "i don't like that!" without offering an alternative?  and contrary to what you read on lew rockwell or what al jones says there are plenty of non drug war uses.  they get use more often than the tower fire trucks do

I think the tone of your reply is a bit over the top.  Easy on that stuff right there.

[brimic]

Of all the things you can rightfully accuse c&s's Daddy of, wanting an echo chamber for his debates is not one of them.

LOL. So true.

[AJ Dual]

LOL. So true.

I'm trying to think of what it would look like visually. I'm thinking something akin to that empty white place with no boundaries in THX-1138...

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

North hollywood shoot out for one.  Several times they tried to rescue wounded people and were beat back by the robbers overwhelming firepower.



Of course, there is already a vehicle in production that fits the bill.  Money transport armored truck or van.
Were I the police chief and the SWAT commander wanted an APC, I'd kick him in the jimmy and make him requsisition one of these





High front bumper for ramming gates, running boards for deploying swat police in a hurry.  And the first person that tried to mount a machine gun on it would get said machine gun inserted rectally.


Utah county SWAT van



Perfect use of police dollars there.

This, however, is *expletive deleted*ing insane

you do realize that pic 2 will cost more police dollars than 3?

i can see 3 in a metro area with special assets to protect

[RevDisk]

I know several departments that want/need APC's and other military equipment because they are going to be outgunned otherwise in certain situations.

If they didn't want to be outgunned, they shouldn't use an M113.

.308 AP will penetrate from a zero deflection side shot.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

what will that .308 do to the windshield on pic 2?

[kgbsquirrel]

If they didn't want to be outgunned, they shouldn't use an M113.

.308 AP will penetrate from a zero deflection side shot.

*yawn* A3.