Yes, the Bush administration is that bad.

[old school]

Saw this on the wire today. It is a perfect example of the abuse of power that is all but guaranteed when we allow the government to operate outside our own standards of justice.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jQWbEoO3FnWNVOraJHQJo38l7TYgD91KITN00

[taurusowner]

I guess the 2 Justices he appointed or the AWB he didn't renew have no impact on you?

[old school]

I guess the 2 Justices he appointed or the AWB he didn't renew have no impact on you?

Does that give him a free pass for anything with you taurusowner?

[Manedwolf]

I guess the 2 Justices he appointed or the AWB he didn't renew have no impact on you?

Does that give him a free pass for anything with you taurusowner?

No, but I think it's a good thing to weigh against the kneejerk BLARG HATE BUSH HATE BUSH *foam* reactionary sort of thing that you seem to be displaying.

[old school]

I guess the 2 Justices he appointed or the AWB he didn't renew have no impact on you?

Does that give him a free pass for anything with you taurusowner?

No, but I think it's a good thing to weigh against the kneejerk BLARG HATE BUSH HATE BUSH *foam* reactionary sort of thing that you seem to be displaying.

I love your response. It is just like the Judge describes the Bush administrations tactics. I guess he represents you perfectly. Bush is your man manedwolf.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

this is a tough one old school
what would you do? or believe your surrogate would/should do with these folks? send em back home?

[old school]

this is a tough one old school
what would you do? or believe your surrogate would/should do with these folks? send em back home?

It is a damn tough one daddy. Now that he is exposed, if they send Parhat back to Turkestan he is toast. And you can bet the toaster will be made in China.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

this is a tough one old school
what would you do? or believe your surrogate would/should do with these folks? send em back home?

It is a damn tough one daddy. Now that he is exposed, if they send Parhat back to Turkestan he is toast. And you can bet the toaster will be made in China.

What on earth does that mean?  Is there a coherent thought somehwere in there?

I'm curious to hear a proper response from you.  What would you do with these folks?

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

he exposed himself when he went to fight  thats how he ended up where he is. he wasn't sipping latte at the student union when he was captured

[old school]

this is a tough one old school
what would you do? or believe your surrogate would/should do with these folks? send em back home?

It is a damn tough one daddy. Now that he is exposed, if they send Parhat back to Turkestan he is toast. And you can bet the toaster will be made in China.

What on earth does that mean?  Is there a coherent thought somehwere in there?

I'm curious to hear a proper response from you.  What would you do with these folks?

Coherant thought? Man you are belligerent.
Did you consider that I may have been talking about the specific individual that the article was about? Did you read the article or are you just looking for a fight?

[old school]

he exposed himself when he went to fight  thats how he ended up where he is. he wasn't sipping latte at the student union when he was captured

Yes, I think everyone knows that is the fact. However, there is no proof at all that he did anything to us. But now he is famous infamous. Do you think he is wrong for fighting for independence from China? Or are you saying that it is not our problem, even though we have exposed him?

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

he exposed himself when he went to fight  thats how he ended up where he is. he wasn't sipping latte at the student union when he was captured

Yes, I think everyone knows that is the fact. However, there is no proof at all that he did anything to us. But now he is famous infamous. Do you think he is wrong for fighting for independence from China? Or are you saying that it is not our problem, even though we have exposed him?

we exposed him?  he made the choice.we waste quite a bit of time and effort keeping his country from killing him and then get villified for it

[old school]

That is really the tricky part. Anything we do to protect him will piss China off. And now since China is our trade buddy, we don't want that. It was not long ago when we would have secretly financed somebody fighting China. Who knows, we may have financed this guy at some point.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

So the question remains, what do you think we should do with guys like this? 

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

so what would you do? or have obama do?  you dodged it long enough. or are you one of those that know you hate whats being done but have nothin more substantive than chanting hope and change yes we can as an alternative

darn htg fast typer

[old school]

So the question remains, what do you think we should do with guys like this? 

Well, I will answer your question Gunner. You are asking a valid question as a stand up guy. Thank you for that.
 
I am not sure we have any options on this one Gunner. If we do anyting other than return him to his country, we will surely cause a rift that will have implications that we can't even measure. As daddy pointed out when he was still acting civil, he did go to battle and that comes with risk.

If he is innocent, it is just sucks for Parhat. While it will be his intended enemies that will kill him if we return him home, our potentially false accusation, capture and imprisonment probably revealed him to China.

Now the operative word here is potentially. He may have actually had some anti US terrorist agenda or plans. All the article says is that the Bush administration has no or has provided no proof. Either way, I think it is right that we let him go if we have no proof. What happens after that definately won't be good for him. And, rather you agree with him fighting China for independence is just or not. We still wronged him.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

If he is innocent, it is just sucks for Parhat. While it will be his intended enemies that will kill him if we return him home, our potentially false accusation, capture and imprisonment probably revealed him to China.


how you and obama figure we wronged him? are you one of those guys thaat starts a fight then  calls cops when you get tail kicked?  he went to war! folks get hurt killed and captured. suck it up or sit on the porch with the girls and small dogs

[old school]

If he is innocent, it is just sucks for Parhat. While it will be his intended enemies that will kill him if we return him home, our potentially false accusation, capture and imprisonment probably revealed him to China.


how you and obama figure we wronged him? are you one of those guys thaat starts a fight then  calls cops when you get tail kicked?  he went to war! folks get hurt killed and captured. suck it up or sit on the porch with the girls and small dogs

You just keep the hits coming don't you daddy. It is like a broken record with you about the guy went to war deal. Maybe if you say it enough times your argument will start to make sense? We all know he was fighting for independence. We read the article that is why we are having this discussion. Regardless of who he was fighting with, or who his enemies are, we still arrested him without evidence and never did produce any.

Your fight analogy is moronic. It is not relevant in any way. But you have made it quite obvious that you do not understand the complexity of the situation that the article is about.

Oh, and your porch analogy wher you equate girls with dogs will surely make your two daughters very proud of you. Maybe you could ask the moderator to remove that from your post. If you do, let me know and I will remove the reference to it from my post. I think that would be best.

[Silver Bullet]

It is a perfect example of the abuse of power that is all but guaranteed when we allow the government to operate outside our own standards of justice.

It doesn't matter insofar as Kerry and Gore would have been just as bad in that respect, and they would have nominated liberal justices.  Also, Bush didn't push for the AWB renewal, Gore and Kerry would have.

A net gain for the good guys.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

If he is innocent, it is just sucks for Parhat. While it will be his intended enemies that will kill him if we return him home, our potentially false accusation, capture and imprisonment probably revealed him to China.


how you and obama figure we wronged him? are you one of those guys thaat starts a fight then  calls cops when you get tail kicked?  he went to war! folks get hurt killed and captured. suck it up or sit on the porch with the girls and small dogs

You just keep the hits coming don't you daddy. It is like a broken record with you about the guy went to war deal. Maybe if you say it enough times your argument will start to make sense? We all know he was fighting for independence. We read the article that is why we are having this discussion. Regardless of who he was fighting with, or who his enemies are, we still arrested him without evidence and never did produce any.

Your fight analogy is moronic. It is not relevant in any way. But you have made it quite obvious that you do not understand the complexity of the situation that the article is about.

Oh, and your porch analogy wher you equate girls with dogs will surely make your two daughters very proud of you. Maybe you could ask the moderator to remove that from your post. If you do, let me know and I will remove the reference to it from my post. I think that would be best.

the reference to porch et al was in reference to the guy in gitmo  if you fight you gotta face the consequences. if you felt it was aimed at you i am sorry. and we didn't capture him fighting the chinese.he was fighting in our fight

i can't for the life of me see how we wronged him. unless denying him martyrdom is a wrong

[MicroBalrog]

he exposed himself when he went to fight  thats how he ended up where he is. he wasn't sipping latte at the student union when he was captured

He was actually not fighting the US when he was captured. This is exactly why the court declared him not to be an enemy combatant.

[old school]

It is a perfect example of the abuse of power that is all but guaranteed when we allow the government to operate outside our own standards of justice.

It doesn't matter insofar as Kerry and Gore would have been just as bad in that respect, and they would have nominated liberal justices.  Also, Bush didn't push for the AWB renewal, Gore and Kerry would have.

A net gain for the good guys.

I guess that is valid. We can't honestly sit here and say that we know for sure that Kerry wouldn't abuse his power this way. But the fact is, Bush absolutely did.

It is interesting that these discussions often lead to the question: would you trade due process for the ability to own assault weapons. For me the answer is no. I feel that once due process is lost, all is lost.

Yet everytime we get into this discussion, it kind of ends in a "what comes first, the chicken or the egg" discussion in regards to right to bear arms and due process. I want both and I think everyone else on this forum wants both too. It gets heated when we talk about how to get it.  

[MicroBalrog]

The Justice Department concedes that Parhat never fought against the U.S. and says it has no evidence he was planning to do so.

[old school]

i can't for the life of me see how we wronged him. unless denying him martyrdom is a wrong

We wronged him because he might not be facing "martyrdom" if it were not for our seizure of him. He might be still be fighting in obscurity. He may have laid down his arms the next day. He may have defected to another free country. There is no way to know. He might have been hit by a truck.

We snatched him up, took him from his country, put him in a cell, probably starved, beat and waterboarded him day in and day out, deprived his family of his support and possibly children of a father. How is this not wronging someone?

[freakazoid]

how you and obama figure we wronged him? are you one of those guys thaat starts a fight then  calls cops when you get tail kicked?  he went to war! folks get hurt killed and captured. suck it up or sit on the porch with the girls and small dogs

What? I don't get what you are implying. Are you saying that simply because someone went to war that we can do whatever we want to them? Also what MicroBlog said.

edit -

I guess the 2 Justices he appointed or the AWB he didn't renew have no impact on you?

Didn't Bush say that he would sign any anti-2A bills?