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Author Topic: Yes, the Bush administration is that bad.  (Read 12115 times)

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Yes, the Bush administration is that bad.
« Reply #25 on: June 30, 2008, 06:51:13 PM »
"probably starved, beat and waterboarded him day in and day out, "
really?  his own lawyers don't even claim that.   hes lucky to have such an imaginitive advocate in you. if he gets the refugee status and comes here to live you should host him
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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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old school

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Re: Yes, the Bush administration is that bad.
« Reply #26 on: June 30, 2008, 07:02:48 PM »
Quote from: cassandra and sara's daddy on June 30, 2008, 05:51:13 PM
"probably starved, beat and waterboarded him day in and day out, "
really?  his own lawyers don't even claim that.   hes lucky to have such an imaginitive advocate in you. if he gets the refugee status and comes here to live you should host him

You continue to make no sense. Why would he come here? He is from Turkestan.

Someone should advocate the wrongly accused shouln't they? Or do you think that anything goes as long as it doesn't happen to you? If so, you may eventually get around to understanding the root of the is discussion yet. The point is, if we don't stand up for others to be treated fairly, no one will stand up for you. Give away due process at your own peril.
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Yes, the Bush administration is that bad.
« Reply #27 on: June 30, 2008, 07:08:30 PM »
there are 2 congressman trying to get these folks refugee status  apparently we brutalized em day in and day out to the point they are so broken in spirit they are ready to live here   ohhh the horror
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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Re: Yes, the Bush administration is that bad.
« Reply #28 on: June 30, 2008, 07:14:19 PM »
Quote from: cassandra and sara's daddy on June 30, 2008, 06:08:30 PM
there are 2 congressman trying to get these folks refugee status  apparently we brutalized em day in and day out to the point they are so broken in spirit they are ready to live here   ohhh the horror

If we captured them from another country and tortured them, why the hell would they want to live here? Even if they weren't our enemies before that, they sure as hell might be now. I would't let them in just for fear they were looking for an opportunity for revenge.
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MicroBalrog

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Re: Yes, the Bush administration is that bad.
« Reply #29 on: June 30, 2008, 09:40:39 PM »
Quote from: cassandra and sara's daddy on June 30, 2008, 06:08:30 PM
there are 2 congressman trying to get these folks refugee status  apparently we brutalized em day in and day out to the point they are so broken in spirit they are ready to live here 

What's your problem with that statement?

The fellow discussed initially is not an enemy of the United States.
He is an enemy of Communist China.

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Scout26

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Re: Yes, the Bush administration is that bad.
« Reply #30 on: July 01, 2008, 12:25:59 AM »
Quote from: MicroBalrog on June 30, 2008, 08:40:39 PM
Quote from: cassandra and sara's daddy on June 30, 2008, 06:08:30 PM
there are 2 congressman trying to get these folks refugee status  apparently we brutalized em day in and day out to the point they are so broken in spirit they are ready to live here 

What's your problem with that statement?

The fellow discussed initially is not an enemy of the United States.
He is an enemy of Communist China.



Then how did he end up at Gitmo ?? 
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MicroBalrog

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Re: Yes, the Bush administration is that bad.
« Reply #31 on: July 01, 2008, 12:48:39 AM »
Quote from: scout26 on June 30, 2008, 11:25:59 PM
Quote from: MicroBalrog on June 30, 2008, 08:40:39 PM
Quote from: cassandra and sara's daddy on June 30, 2008, 06:08:30 PM
there are 2 congressman trying to get these folks refugee status  apparently we brutalized em day in and day out to the point they are so broken in spirit they are ready to live here 

What's your problem with that statement?

The fellow discussed initially is not an enemy of the United States.
He is an enemy of Communist China.



Then how did he end up at Gitmo ?? 

You need to ask the Department of Justice about that.

Nobody claims that the man is an enemy of the United States. Even the DoJ states that he did not at any time take up arms against America.
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freakazoid

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Re: Yes, the Bush administration is that bad.
« Reply #32 on: July 01, 2008, 12:57:37 AM »
Quote
Then how did he end up at Gitmo ??

Same way a lot of them ended up there, http://www.mcclatchydc.com/detainees/story/40334.html
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seeker_two

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Re: Yes, the Bush administration is that bad.
« Reply #33 on: July 01, 2008, 04:02:08 AM »
This is why Gitmo was such a mistake.....the "detainees" should have been interrogated and "neutralized" in-theater....
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MicroBalrog

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Re: Yes, the Bush administration is that bad.
« Reply #34 on: July 01, 2008, 04:08:28 AM »
Quote from: seeker_two on July 01, 2008, 03:02:08 AM
This is why Gitmo was such a mistake.....the "detainees" should have been interrogated and "neutralized" in-theater....

What's the point of killing a man who is not an enemy of the United States?
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xavier fremboe

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Re: Yes, the Bush administration is that bad.
« Reply #35 on: July 01, 2008, 04:18:16 AM »
The OP is flamebait.  The article states that we don't want to keep him.  The problem is that no one else wants him.  Certainly not the Chinese. 
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ilbob

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Re: Yes, the Bush administration is that bad.
« Reply #36 on: July 01, 2008, 04:36:32 AM »
Quote from: seeker_two on July 01, 2008, 03:02:08 AM
This is why Gitmo was such a mistake.....the "detainees" should have been interrogated and "neutralized" in-theater....
Monday morning quarterbacking. Would have, should have, could have.

No longer matters. The problem is we attempted to deal with these guys in some civilized way, recognizing that most of them are little more than violent thugs who would kill any American he saw given a chance. A few guys who are not quite in that category got swept up and no one has come up with a way to deal with the mess.

I find it ironic that none of the people complaining about the problem have come up with a practical answer to deal with it.

IMO, anyone fighting US troops that are not in uniform and fighting under the rules of land warfare deserve a military court martial and the rope. Thats what we should be doing with them if they choose not to cooperate. If they choose to cooperate, they get a better deal.
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roo_ster

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Re: Yes, the Bush administration is that bad.
« Reply #37 on: July 01, 2008, 04:58:03 AM »
Quote from: old school on June 30, 2008, 06:14:19 PM
If we captured them from another country and tortured them, why the hell would they want to live here?

You assume quite a bit.

Like, the torture bit. Seems to me that the chain of events that has lead to his desire to live in the USA is as follows*:
1. Dude picked up on intel showing he is part of a muslim terrorist org based in China
2. Dude treated very well in captivity, so much so that he not only gains weight, but he wants to live in the USA.

BTW, dude was captured not from HIS country, which is currently marked by the borders of China, but in a third country.


*  Hey, as long as were assuming facts not in evidence, we can drag any old thing from our fourth points of contact.
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agricola

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Re: Yes, the Bush administration is that bad.
« Reply #38 on: July 01, 2008, 05:08:14 AM »
Quote from: jfruser on July 01, 2008, 03:58:03 AM
Quote from: old school on June 30, 2008, 06:14:19 PM
If we captured them from another country and tortured them, why the hell would they want to live here?

You assume quite a bit.

Like, the torture bit. Seems to me that the chain of events that has lead to his desire to live in the USA is as follows*:
1. Dude picked up on intel showing he is part of a muslim terrorist org based in China
2. Dude treated very well in captivity, so much so that he not only gains weight, but he wants to live in the USA.

BTW, dude was captured not from HIS country, which is currently marked by the borders of China, but in a third country.


*  Hey, as long as were assuming facts not in evidence, we can drag any old thing from our fourth points of contact.

It would also seem that he was training to be a terrorist, at a terrorist training camp that was bombed by the US.  He says he was not intending to attack the US.  Fine, give him to the people he was (according to his lawyers) intending to attack, then.  I am sure they will be far more humane and will endeavour to not keep him locked up for six years.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7470405.stm

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roo_ster

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Re: Yes, the Bush administration is that bad.
« Reply #39 on: July 01, 2008, 05:33:45 AM »
Hey now!

Don't introduce fact into this argument.  We'd all prefer to live in ignorance of the circumstances of his capture, preferring to think he was providing food and shelter to orphans and widows when the nasty guys from the US Army snatched him...brutally...from his life's work of sowing mercy, kindness, and love to all the world's fluffy puppies and little kittens.
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K Frame

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Re: Yes, the Bush administration is that bad.
« Reply #40 on: July 01, 2008, 05:37:26 AM »
Old School...

You either dial it down and change your "debating" tactics, or I will dial you out of here.

You have a nasty little knee jerk habit of claiming that someone's argument "doesn't make sense" when it's either inconvenient to you or you don't wish to address it.

That is not a valid discussion/debating tactic and I'm getting a bit tired of it.

It's lazy and it's disingenuous, and it puts you firmly in the "broken record" category (sound familiar?).

And it stops.

Now.

Understand me?

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Re: Yes, the Bush administration is that bad.
« Reply #41 on: July 01, 2008, 09:39:36 AM »
Mike, I will contact you by PM. Please continue this discussion there.
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K Frame

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Re: Yes, the Bush administration is that bad.
« Reply #42 on: July 01, 2008, 10:01:36 AM »
No discussion needed. It's perfectly clear what I and the other admins and moderators expect.
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