Author Topic: Bush The Patsy  (Read 3590 times)

The Rabbi

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Bush The Patsy
« on: August 31, 2007, 10:26:41 AM »
What it is it with this guy?  Someone might as well put a "kick me" sign on his back.  Yet another new initiative to bribe people with their own money.  If they can't afford their house, how is letting the gov't guarantee the loan going to help them?  It wont.  And the Dems will be falling all over themselves to lard this one up into a real budget buster.
Quote
WASHINGTON - President Bush outlined ways the federal government can help troubled borrowers keep their homes Friday in an effort to address rising foreclosures fueled by the mortgage crisis.


The administration's first attempt at dealing with a wave of defaults is not aimed at bailing out lenders, however.

"It's not the government's job to bail out speculators or those who made the decision to buy a home they knew they could never afford," Bush said in the Rose Garden. "Yet there are many American homeowners who could get through this difficult time with a little flexibility from their lenders or a little help from their government."

The U.S. economy enjoyed a strong revival in the spring but since then has been threatened by the worst housing slump in 16 years and a widening credit crisis that has sent financial markets on a roller coaster ride.

...

"This has led some homeowners to take out loans larger than they could afford based on overly optimistic assumptions about the future performance of the housing market," Bush said. "Others may have been confused by the terms of their loan, or misled by irresponsible lenders. Whatever the reason they chose this kind of mortgage, some borrowers are now unable to make their monthly payments, or facing foreclosure."

Foreclosure and late payments have spiked, especially for so-called subprime borrowers with blemished credit histories or low incomes. Higher interest rates and weak home values have made it impossible for some to pay or to keep up with their monthly mortgage payments. Some overstretched homeowners can't afford to refinance or even sell their homes.

Mortgage foreclosures and late payments are expected to worsen. Some 2 million adjustable rate mortgages are to reset to higher rates this year and next. Steep penalties for prepaying mortgages have added to some homeowners' headaches.

Bush said the Federal Housing Administration, a government agency that provides mortgage insurance to borrowers through lenders in the private sector, would launch in coming days a program called FHA Secure. The program would let homeowners who have good credit histories but can't afford their current mortgage payments to refinance into mortgages insured by the FHA.

"This means that many families who are struggling now will be able to refinance their loans, meet their monthly payments and keep their homes," Bush said.

Bush also urged Congress to modernize and improve the FHA so more homeowners could qualify for the mortgage insurance provided by the agency. Last year the House passed legislation to modernize FHA, but Congress has not yet sent a bill to the White House. "I look forward to signing a bill as quickly as possible," Bush said.

Bush also pledged to work with Congress to reform a key housing provision of the federal tax code, which will make it easier for homeowners to refinance their mortgages.

"Let's say the value of your house declines by $20,000 and your adjustable rate mortgage payments have grown to a level you cannot afford," Bush said. "If the bank modifies your mortgage and forgives $20,000 of your loan, the tax code treats that $20,000 as taxable income. When your home is losing value and your family is under financial stress, the last thing you need to do is to be hit with higher taxes."

Bush also said the administration would launch a new foreclosure avoidance initiative to help homeowners figure out a way to refinance. He said Housing Secretary Alphonso Jackson and Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson would reach out to groups that offer foreclosure counseling and refinancing assistance for homeowners.

And he said the federal government was taking actions to make the mortgage industry more transparent, more reliable and fair to reduce the likelihood of these lending problems happening again.

Sen. Charles Schumer, D-N.Y., said he was pleased to hear Bush and Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke address the escalating crisis in the mortgage market. "The current situation is simply out of hand. It's bad and it's getting worse," he said.

He said Bush's proposals  increasing FHA loans, reducing down payment requirements on loans to be insured by the FHA, eliminating tax liabilities for foreclosure victims  were all Democratic proposals.

Schumer said additional steps must be taken  increased funding for non-profits that help people facing foreclosure to refinance, allowing Freddie-Fannie to spend more, federal regulation of mortgage brokers.

John M. Robbins, chairman of the Mortgage Bankers Association, said the president's attention to turmoil in the mortgage markets and the plight of homeowners facing foreclosure will help push Congress to reform FHA.

"It is essential that the Federal Housing Administration have the tools and flexibility to adjust its products and programs to meet the evolving needs of borrowers," Robbins said.
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Manedwolf

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Re: Bush The Patsy
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2007, 10:45:35 AM »
He's being more of a liberal than the liberals could be, IMO.

This also makes a mockery of people who bought within their means, or saved instead of buying. The people who were foolish get to keep their luxurious homes they couldn't afford, while the responsible spendthrifts suffer in a small box.

Way to reward responsibility, huh?

The Rabbi

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Re: Bush The Patsy
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2007, 10:59:55 AM »
Oh, he claims he isn't bailing out the lenders.  But people having trouble paying are foreclosures waiting to happen.  By allowing them to refi into an FhA product he is shifting the risk to the gov't and away from the lenders.
He is making a mockery of the taxpayer who will be forced to support this middle class welfare project.
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Paddy

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Re: Bush The Patsy
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2007, 11:30:44 AM »
It may be much ado about nothing; it's probably a small amount of money (relatively) coming from fed.gov

Take a look at what Ben Stein has to say:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/03/18/sunday/main2581859.shtml

Perd Hapley

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Re: Bush The Patsy
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2007, 12:25:49 PM »
OK, Riley, is this another attempt to play a joke on me, or did the two of you trade screen-names?   Huh?
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Paddy

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Re: Bush The Patsy
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2007, 12:41:25 PM »
Quote
By allowing them to refi into an FhA product he is shifting the risk to the gov't and away from the lenders.
He is making a mockery of the taxpayer who will be forced to support this middle class welfare project.

How so?  FHA is self funded by insurance premiums paid by borrowers, correct?  No 'public' funds are at risk, as I understand it.

Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Bush The Patsy
« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2007, 01:28:14 PM »
Yeah, I'm rather pissed at El Presidente over this one.  The mortgage "crisis" is much ado about nothing, it won't really hurt anyone other than the borrowers and lenders who were too stupid to know better.  Whadya know, stupidity really is painful.  As it should be.

Bush and Bernanke seem way too eager to meddle where they oughtn't meddle.  This current scheme to force responsible borrowers to subsidize insurance to high risk borrowers is shortsighted and foolhardy.  It's abhorrent to the concept of a free market.

 undecided


Tallpine

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Re: Bush The Patsy
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2007, 01:49:41 PM »
Remind me again why I'm supposed to be a Republican ... Huh?
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RadioFreeSeaLab

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Re: Bush The Patsy
« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2007, 02:00:10 PM »
I have a question.  Why should I have to help prop up people who bought a house when they couldn't afford it?  I didn't make a horrible financial decision, I don't want me tax money spent to help those who did.

Standing Wolf

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Re: Bush The Patsy
« Reply #9 on: August 31, 2007, 03:08:42 PM »
Once again, the Republicrats stick up those who work to "help out" those who don't.
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Re: Bush The Patsy
« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2007, 04:09:31 PM »
"When someone hurts, government has got to move."   rolleyes

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Re: Bush The Patsy
« Reply #11 on: August 31, 2007, 04:25:17 PM »
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Remind me again why I'm supposed to be a Republican ... ?

Uhhhh....the lesser of two evils?  That's all I got.

This is not as bad as everybody is making it out to be. Because the 'subprime crisis' is more hype than substance, the perception can be damaging to the economy (as we've seen recently).  This merely (as I understand it) provides a way for the small number of people in foreclosure to re-cast (renegotiate) their mortgages, which will allow them to keep their homes and prevent losses, right?  What's the beef?   Your tax dollars are not going to 'bail out' 'high risk borrowers'.  Any mitigation will come from mortgage insurance premium dollars.  How is that any skin off your b**ls?

Paddy

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Re: Bush The Patsy
« Reply #12 on: August 31, 2007, 05:07:28 PM »
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And he said the federal government was taking actions to make the mortgage industry more transparent, more reliable and fair to reduce the likelihood of these lending problems happening again.

Translation: More government regulations and controls as a result of the failure of the 'free market' (yet again). Yeah, the 'free market' works great, doesn't it?  rolleyes

Antibubba

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Re: Bush The Patsy
« Reply #13 on: August 31, 2007, 07:23:59 PM »
Bailing these overzealous borrowers out does not hurt King George at all.  Like so much of his Presidency it shifts the pain to someone else, somewhere in the future.

He has his legacy to consider, after all.
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RocketMan

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Re: Bush The Patsy
« Reply #14 on: August 31, 2007, 08:42:47 PM »
Translation: More government regulations and controls as a result of the failure of the 'free market' (yet again). Yeah, the 'free market' works great, doesn't it?  rolleyes
Actually, the free market works quite well when it is allowed to.  Government is short-circuiting the free market in this case, not allowing it to work by punishing stupid borrowers and the even more stupid lenders.
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Paddy

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Re: Bush The Patsy
« Reply #15 on: August 31, 2007, 09:44:51 PM »
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Actually, the free market works quite well when it is allowed to.

Give me one example of a 'free market' that 'works well'. 

Manedwolf

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Re: Bush The Patsy
« Reply #16 on: August 31, 2007, 11:33:37 PM »
This merely (as I understand it) provides a way for the small number of people in foreclosure to re-cast (renegotiate) their mortgages, which will allow them to keep their homes and prevent losses, right?

Why should they get to keep their houses if they were stupid about buying more than they could afford? If stupid hurts, you're less likely to do stupid again.

Instead, the government is rewarding stupid, and letting stupid people continue to enjoy their out-of-their-price-range homes, while those who were fiscally responsible get...nothing.

In other words, why even try? If you're stupid, the government will bail you out. If you're responsible, you get nothing and don't get to enjoy life as much.

Great lesson.

Perd Hapley

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Re: Bush The Patsy
« Reply #17 on: September 01, 2007, 02:48:35 AM »
I'm still trying to figure out what happened here.  We've got Rabbi calling Bush a patsy and complaining about some legislation he supports.  Then we've got Riley saying, "Nah, it's not so bad."  Isn't that completely backwards?   smiley
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Stand_watie

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Re: Bush The Patsy
« Reply #18 on: September 01, 2007, 03:56:44 AM »
I'm still trying to figure out what happened here.  We've got Rabbi calling Bush a patsy and complaining about some legislation he supports.  Then we've got Riley saying, "Nah, it's not so bad."  Isn't that completely backwards?   smiley

Not exactly.

You have to take into consideration that neither Rabbi or Riley are (either Republican or) George W. shills.  As such they don't really give a *expletive deleted*it if they match up exactly. Riley is without doubt to the right of Rabbi on some issues. Rabbi is without doubt to the right of Riley on some issues. Conservatives don't always match up as expected..
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Bush The Patsy
« Reply #19 on: September 01, 2007, 03:59:52 AM »
Nope.  Still backwards.   smiley
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Paddy

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Re: Bush The Patsy
« Reply #20 on: September 01, 2007, 07:08:56 AM »
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Why should they get to keep their houses if they were stupid about buying more than they could afford? If stupid hurts, you're less likely to do stupid again.

Instead, the government is rewarding stupid, and letting stupid people continue to enjoy their out-of-their-price-range homes, while those who were fiscally responsible get...nothing.

In other words, why even try? If you're stupid, the government will bail you out. If you're responsible, you get nothing and don't get to enjoy life as much.

Yeah. Like all those stupid people who lost their money because it was in banks back in October 1929 (there's a free market example for ya).  Or those dumbasses who bought homes at Love Canal or near Three Mile Island.  And how about those doofuses who had money invested in Enron or dotcom stocks?  Or who counted on promised pensions from hundreds of companies who failed to fund those pensions?  It's a dog eat dog world and only the strong survive.  Let 'em eat cake.  rolleyes

longeyes

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« Reply #21 on: September 01, 2007, 07:28:14 AM »
Is anyone surprised by this?

The idea is to keep the "economy" going.  If that means feeding the cheap money addiction, at the expense of the sober virtues that made America great, then so be it. 
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Tallpine

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Re: Bush The Patsy
« Reply #22 on: September 01, 2007, 10:45:49 AM »
Funny how this stuff works ...

When I finally got a really good paying job, we went down and bought a nice used vehicle.  Didn't want to completely drain our savings acct, so we paid half in cash and financed the rest.  The dealer was infuriated when I put down my salary on the loan app - they wanted me to buy a brand new Suburban, not a 10 year old one.

Then we saved up some money for a down payment on a house in the country.  We could have at the time qualified for three times the mortgage payment.  Couple years later I get laid off and work has been touch and go since then.

We still have our home and we still have our Suburban Wink
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BozemanMT

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Re: Bush The Patsy
« Reply #23 on: September 01, 2007, 02:56:33 PM »
This merely (as I understand it) provides a way for the small number of people in foreclosure to re-cast (renegotiate) their mortgages, which will allow them to keep their homes and prevent losses, right?

Why should they get to keep their houses if they were stupid about buying more than they could afford? If stupid hurts, you're less likely to do stupid again.

Instead, the government is rewarding stupid, and letting stupid people continue to enjoy their out-of-their-price-range homes, while those who were fiscally responsible get...nothing.

In other words, why even try? If you're stupid, the government will bail you out. If you're responsible, you get nothing and don't get to enjoy life as much.

Great lesson.

Yeah, pretty flipping sad huh?
makes me just burn inside.
one day, all of us responsible folk are just going to stop, I mean, what's the point?
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The Rabbi

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Re: Bush The Patsy
« Reply #24 on: September 01, 2007, 04:47:28 PM »
I'm still trying to figure out what happened here.  We've got Rabbi calling Bush a patsy and complaining about some legislation he supports.  Then we've got Riley saying, "Nah, it's not so bad."  Isn't that completely backwards?   smiley

Not exactly.

You have to take into consideration that neither Rabbi or Riley are (either Republican or) George W. shills.  As such they don't really give a *expletive deleted*it if they match up exactly. Riley is without doubt to the right of Rabbi on some issues. Rabbi is without doubt to the right of Riley on some issues. Conservatives don't always match up as expected..

Well, actually I am a (Reagan) Republican.  I have been since 1980.  This is why I oppose Bush's actions here (as I opposed them on the medical benefit for Medicaid).  More gov't involvement is not going to help this.  It will make it worse and cost everyone a lot of money.
Almost all problems in the economy come from government involvement.  People losing their investments in Enron or whatever are examples of "market discipline."  It's called risk.  Risk means you can lose your investment.  That's investing 101.  People who bought Enron took risk and lost.  I also looked at the stock in its heyday and couldn't figure out what was keeping it up.  I passed on the investment.
Market discipline needs to sort out the subprime mess and the whole housing bubble.  There need to be consequences to bad decisions.
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