Muslim Students Stressed by Gender Mingling

[RadioFreeSeaLab]

http://interested-participant.blogspot.com/2008/02/muslim-students-stressed-by-gender.html

According to a report in the New York Times, it appears that a definable battleground in the conflict between feminism and Islam is emerging on American college campuses. Specifically, Muslim Student Associations are being internally stressed because there are just too many women coming in contact with men.

Arguments within Muslim groups are frequent. As an example, the Muslim student group at University of California, Davis, organized a coed barbecue last year and the chapter president had to answer complaints about unmarried men and women physically bumping into each other. Another example:
Fatima Hassan, 22, a senior at the Davis campus, organized a coed road trip to Reno, Nev., two hours away, to play the slot machines last Halloween. In Islam, Ms. Hassan concedes, gambling is "really bad," but it was men and women sharing the same car that shocked some fellow association members.
Okay, the fact that strict followers of Islam have problems with women is old news. However, the fact that it has become a localized conflict on college campuses throughout the U.S. is somewhat fresh. And, although it's only anecdotally covered by the Times, the gender disagreements within Muslim student groups will likely become more contentious over time even as the leadership, reportedly, is "gradually relaxing a bit" on strict interpretations of Islam.

Speculatively, for any conflict on American college campuses between smart women and strict followers of Islam, barring any legal mandates and fear tactics, my wager is on the women. First of all, women outnumber men on campuses and 99 percent won't cover up or shut up when ordered by a man. Secondly, even the smartest of men can be sculpted like warm putty in the perfumed and lotioned hands of a smart woman.

Serious culture incompatibility.

[Bogie]

Oh, heck, 25 years ago, they were still weird - only they were more into going to The Disco and getting stupid and picking up the loose women, until they had to go home and behave. Now, seems like they've all gone and got religion.
 

[Balog]

If your religion makes you unable to exist in normal society either leave society ala Quakers or STFU.

[HankB]

I liked this story! 

[Manedwolf]

Female liberals who constantly defend radical Islam find out that radical Islam equates them with dirt...

Hee hee hee...

*pulls up chair to watch*

[mustanger98]

And you can bet they won't know to be blamin' fistful.

[Strings]

anybody think to bring popcorn? This should be FUN!

[thebaldguy]

I work with some Muslim women who are taking on western ways much to the dismay of their families. After tasting freedom, they are beginning to separate themselves from the repression. They are quickly learning that they can become educated, independent and successful, and don't need the hassles of repressive Muslim life.

I read a recent Playboy advisor column that Muslim women are supposed to marry a Muslim man, while Muslim men can marry anyone. I wonder who made up that rule...

[Bigjake]

If they can't dig the 21st century, maybe they need to go the way of the 7th century they so long for.

[De Selby]

I work with some Muslim women who are taking on western ways much to the dismay of their families. After tasting freedom, they are beginning to separate themselves from the repression. They are quickly learning that they can become educated, independent and successful, and don't need the hassles of repressive Muslim life.

I read a recent Playboy advisor column that Muslim women are supposed to marry a Muslim man, while Muslim men can marry anyone. I wonder who made up that rule...

And the big deal about all this is?  You have sects in every religion that want to do things their own way.  They can argue about it in student groups all they want-I heard the debate about birth control and coed dorms all through my Catholic school days.  How is this significantly different from that?

Oh that's right-they're Muslims.

[Paddy]

Well, I'm stressed that "Islam is emerging on American college campuses."   If Muslims want to repress women, they can go back to whereeverthehell they came from and beat their own womenfolk with sticks, cause it ain't happenin' here. 

[Manedwolf]

I work with some Muslim women who are taking on western ways much to the dismay of their families. After tasting freedom, they are beginning to separate themselves from the repression. They are quickly learning that they can become educated, independent and successful, and don't need the hassles of repressive Muslim life.

I read a recent Playboy advisor column that Muslim women are supposed to marry a Muslim man, while Muslim men can marry anyone. I wonder who made up that rule...

And the big deal about all this is?  You have sects in every religion that want to do things their own way.  They can argue about it in student groups all they want-I heard the debate about birth control and coed dorms all through my Catholic school days.  How is this significantly different from that?

Oh that's right-they're Muslims.

Because they don't want to do things their way amongst themselves, they get pissy that everyone else isn't doing things their way.

If this keeps up, it'll be a hate crime to eat a ham sandwich in front of someone. Because it offended them.

Seriously, if they don't like the fact that Americans have men and women mingling, WHY ARE THEY HERE?!

[De Selby]

Well, I'm stressed that "Islam is emerging on American college campuses."   If Muslims want to repress women, they can go back to whereeverthehell they came from and beat their own womenfolk with sticks, cause it ain't happenin' here. 

Note that the article has nothing to do with beating women, nor anything to do with "forcing women" to do this or that.  

I'm stressed that any position taken by Muslims anywhere is a) automatically ascribed to all Muslims and b) automatically used as grounds for saying things like "kick all dem darn muslims out if'n they wanna be relijis"

To illustrate the folly of this reasoning, I offer an example of similarly poor reasoning and rhetoric applied to Christians:

"American Christians do not allow any mixing of the genders, because they believe that unquestionable obedience to 'Christ' [the Christian word for God] demands complete separation.  Women who mingle with men are subject to discipline, and can even be expelled from university for so-called 'immodest behavior' according to the Christian interpretation of 'loyalty to Christ', the religious code that governs every minute aspect of the Christian life....for example, the following is from the laws governing students at a well-known American Christian religious institution:

http://www.bju.edu/prospective/expect/general.html

Loyalty to Christ results in separated living. Dishonesty, lewdness, sensual behavior, adultery, homosexuality, sexual perversion of any kind, pornography, illegal use of drugs, and drunkenness all are clearly condemned by Gods Word and prohibited here. Further, we believe that biblical principles preclude gambling, dancing, and the beverage use of alcohol.

Dating and Mixed Groups
We want students to have wholesome social opportunities in a setting that provides accountability for biblical requirements of purity. It is with this in mind that we chaperon campus activities where men and women students are present and require a chaperon when students date or interact in a mixed group off campus.

Now if someone tried to sell me the above about Christianity, I would not know whether to laugh or cry, because it is obviously ridiculous and untrue.

Yet the very same thing is being done to Islam here...and why don't we question it exactly?

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

They're stressed because men and women were riding in the same car?  Because men and women were bumping into each other?

Allah help them if they ever discover what goes on at house parties and in frat house basements.  It might be enough to make them explode.

[RevDisk]

Well, I'm stressed that "Islam is emerging on American college campuses."   If Muslims want to repress women, they can go back to whereeverthehell they came from and beat their own womenfolk with sticks, cause it ain't happenin' here. 

I seriously doubt Muslim student unions will try to push for discrimination and segregration.  But I'd laugh my rear end off if they tried.  Gods, most of the lady folks I know would react with a level of hostility to that.  Everyone is entitled to their views.  But any attempts at restricting recreational activities between legal adults should always be met with derision and scorn.  Usually the Bible or Koran thumpers don't mean any harm (usually, not always), but "For your own good" is one of the supremely evil justifications to ever be uttered.

[De Selby]

I work with some Muslim women who are taking on western ways much to the dismay of their families. After tasting freedom, they are beginning to separate themselves from the repression. They are quickly learning that they can become educated, independent and successful, and don't need the hassles of repressive Muslim life.

I read a recent Playboy advisor column that Muslim women are supposed to marry a Muslim man, while Muslim men can marry anyone. I wonder who made up that rule...

And the big deal about all this is?  You have sects in every religion that want to do things their own way.  They can argue about it in student groups all they want-I heard the debate about birth control and coed dorms all through my Catholic school days.  How is this significantly different from that?

Oh that's right-they're Muslims.

Because they don't want to do things their way amongst themselves, they get pissy that everyone else isn't doing things their way.

If this keeps up, it'll be a hate crime to eat a ham sandwich in front of someone. Because it offended them.

Seriously, if they don't like the fact that Americans have men and women mingling, WHY ARE THEY HERE?!

Really? Where in this article are there comments about what other people, outside the Muslim student group, are doing?  I must have missed that.

Is there even a single Muslim group that has called for banning pork in America???

Where are you getting these notions of what "they" want?

[Bigjake]

   It might be enough to make them explode.

Doesn't take much these days, ask any Israeli.

SS, you ARE a CAIR plant, yes?

[Strings]

I will grant that there's nothing in that article about the Muslim students trying to force their beliefs on non-Muslims. However, I'd like to make a couple points:

1) As we've seen (over and over again), when when the strict interpretation crowd (any faith) gets goin' with public conduct, they keep pushing.

2) If "Islamic women" decide they wish to veer slightly away from "strict interpretation", and come under fire from "Islamic men", there's cause for concern (at least here in America, there is). Adults have every right to act (within reason) however they want in public: that includes what faith to follow. What reaction are we going to see from "strict interpretation" folks when strong-willed Islamic women decide to leave the faith? THAT will be very telling...

[De Selby]

I will grant that there's nothing in that article about the Muslim students trying to force their beliefs on non-Muslims. However, I'd like to make a couple points:

1) As we've seen (over and over again), when when the strict interpretation crowd (any faith) gets goin' with public conduct, they keep pushing.

2) If "Islamic women" decide they wish to veer slightly away from "strict interpretation", and come under fire from "Islamic men", there's cause for concern (at least here in America, there is). Adults have every right to act (within reason) however they want in public: that includes what faith to follow. What reaction are we going to see from "strict interpretation" folks when strong-willed Islamic women decide to leave the faith? THAT will be very telling...

Go to any major city in America, the UK, Australia, or Singapore and you will find plenty of women who "decide to leave the faith." 

As you note, this is nothing special about Muslims...but the issue of religious types being pushy is only ever raised in the context of Muslim groups.  It is ironic, because of all the potentially pushy religious organizations, Muslim ones by far have the least political power. 

Bigjake,

The first suicide attack on Israelis was committed by a Christian woman. 

[Bigjake]

Bigjake,

The first suicide attack on Israelis was committed by a Christian woman. 

Horse Puckey.

[Edited for Language]

[Tecumseh]

I often think of Bob Jones university in situations like this.  A good Christian school which teaches Christian values.  I often think of the following bible verses which are pretty serious in themselves...

Originally from the Bible:  If a man is found sleeping with another man's wife, both the man who slept with her and the woman must die." (Deuteronomy 22: 22) and also in Leviticus, we find the following verse:"If a man commits adultery with another man's wife-with the wife of his neighbor-both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death" (Leviticus 20: 10)."

And the Bible also says we should stone women to death for wearing pants (traditional mens clothing!)  and guys who wear womens clothing...

22:5  The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God.

I guess that I should be married at least 5 or 6 times in the past few months according to the bible...

22:28  If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her,  and they be found;        (22:28-29)
If a man rapes an unbetrothed virgin, he must pay her father 50 shekels of silver and then marry her.
22:29 Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.

I guess Islam is not the only backwards religion.

[Tecumseh]

Bigjake,

The first suicide attack on Israelis was committed by a Christian woman. 

Horse *expletive deleted*it.

  I believe he is correct.  But that is ok, it does not fit into your worldview so we should ignore it.

[Regolith]

I guess Islam is not the only backwards religion.

When was the last time a Christian stoned someone to death for adultery?

Being an atheist, I'm not a huge fan of Christianity (or any other religion for that matter), but where as Christians have managed to rein in their tendency for violence and barbarity in the past couple hundred years or so (for the most part - the Irish seem to still have troubles with this), the Muslims are still stuck in the 12th century.  You hear about stonings being carried out in the middle east all the time,  or people being put to death for blasphemy, or rape victims being punished for their rapist's crime.  No, the two religions are no longer comparable.  There ARE some moderate Muslims, but it is not their ideology being practiced in the middle east (and being imported with immigrants into the West).

[Strings]

I'd also think it is relevant that Sharia law has been "practiced" in England ("honor killing"). So, SS... are you saying we can't expect similar here in the States, if the proverbial inch is given?

 and before you go all out on "Christians have bad beliefs, too!", bear in mind that I'm pagan: I've HAD the offers of being made the centerpiece at a bonfire. The Christian loonies don't scare me half as much as the Muslim loonies (probably because there isn't any effort being made on the part of society to "be understanding" of the Christian fringe)...

[Fjolnirsson]

As Strings said, I've been the target of anger and psychotic behavior from Christians due to my religion. The difference is, those Christians by and large abide by US law and social conventions which prevent things like stonings.

Now, there are some Muslims I know who are excellent people, just as there are Christians. However, I see what is happening in England, with every inch given in appeasement yielding a claim for another mile.

My ancestors used to rad up and down the coast of England. They charged something called "Danegeld". A tribute paid to make the Northmen go home. Thing is, every time it was made just a little bit larger. Once you pay the Danegeld, it never goes away.

I don't care what religion someone follows. So long as they aren't trying to make me follow it. I take the same view of a Muslim coming to a public college or university and getting shocked and offended by western women as I would a Baptist going to a porn convention and feeling the same.