Donald Trump bans LED bulbs

[Perd Hapley]

Or at least that's the way some reports make it sound.

The New York Times was relatively restrained.

The Trump administration plans to significantly weaken federal rules that would have forced Americans to use much more energy-efficient light bulbs, a move that could contribute to greenhouse gas emissions that cause global warming....

 “The Energy Department flat out got it wrong today,” said Jason Hartke, president of the Alliance to Save Energy, a nonprofit coalition of business and environmental groups. Calling the move an “unforced error,” he said, “Wasting energy with inefficient light bulbs isn’t just costly for homes and businesses, it’s terrible for our climate.”

Back in February, Think Progress was less restrained.

This repeal would cost consumers $12 billion a year in 2025 — some $100 per household each year — according to analysis from The American Council for an Energy-Efficient Economy. It would mean a stunning 540 million extra tons of greenhouse gases released into the atmosphere by 2030, according to research from Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory.

The market has already spoken, and LEDs have won around the world. Trump cannot stop the global tide of innovation, but he can slow the penetration of efficient lighting in this country — at an enormous cost to the pocketbooks and health of consumers.

That's right. Donald Trump hates your stupid LED bulb, and wants to Make America Great Again by bringing back whale oil lamps, that fiend! To do that, he's going to allow incandescent lights, instead of forcing them out of the market!! It's so diabolical, it's almost Trumpian!

[AZRedhawk44]

I change out my bulbs between summer and winter.

Summer gets LEDs and the few florescents I have left.

Winter gets the incandescents put in again. 

It doesn't get too cold here in AZ, but it will sometimes get just cool enough to want the heater turned on.  Sometimes.  The waste heat from incandescents is welcome when nights drop to 45 degrees and daytimes peak at 75.

I'll even put a shop light out in the chicken coop, with a 100 watt bulb, to warm up the birds, if the temp gets low enough.

Incandescents are wonderful tools.  Banning them is ridiculous.  The market will dictate whether it sees value in them.

Florescents are the devil though.  Whomever thought it was a good idea for a product with vaporized mercury in it to become a household product that so regularly subjected to breakage, ought to be flogged.

[MechAg94]

Those quotes saying it will cost Americans money don't seem to account for the cost of the bulbs. 

Of course, all Americans are sitting at home waiting for the regulation to change before we run to the store and buy all new incandescent bulbs.   

[Perd Hapley]

I change out my bulbs between summer and winter.

Summer gets LEDs and the few florescents I have left.

Winter gets the incandescents put in again. 

It doesn't get too cold here in AZ, but it will sometimes get just cool enough to want the heater turned on.  Sometimes.  The waste heat from incandescents is welcome when nights drop to 45 degrees and daytimes peak at 75.

I'll even put a shop light out in the chicken coop, with a 100 watt bulb, to warm up the birds, if the temp gets low enough.

Incandescents are wonderful tools.  Banning them is ridiculous.  The market will dictate whether it sees value in them.

Florescents are the devil though.  Whomever thought it was a good idea for a product with vaporized mercury in it to become a household product that so regularly subjected to breakage, ought to be flogged.

Let's say the incandescents make your home 1 degree warmer, versus the LED bulbs. Wouldn't the HVAC in your home do a better, more cost-effective job of heating your home by that extra degree?

[HankB]

If you think allowing people to choose what kind of light bulbs they want is infuriating to the left, just wait until Trump rolls back the rules that limit toilets to 1.6 gallons per flush - people might find ONE flush is enough for a change, even after a big platter of burritos.

Let's say the incandescents make your home 1 degree warmer, versus the LED bulbs. Wouldn't the HVAC in your home do a better, more cost-effective job of heating your home by that extra degree?

Depends. If you have basic electric resistance heat, it should be a wash - 100w is 100w. Heat pumps and gas heat change the equation.

[Ben]

A ton if people around here use 100 watt incandescent bulbs to keep the water lines in their well houses from freezing. They place the bulb almost touching the line a foot or so from the tank. I guess it works, but I'll be heating my well house with a real heater.

[MillCreek]

^^^I doubt if you could find a heater than only uses 100 watts.  Maybe the bulb people are right.

[kgbsquirrel]

^^^I doubt if you could find a heater than only uses 100 watts.  Maybe the bulb people are right.

Add insulation, use even smaller bulb, profit.

[Regolith]

A ton if people around here use 100 watt incandescent bulbs to keep the water lines in their well houses from freezing. They place the bulb almost touching the line a foot or so from the tank. I guess it works, but I'll be heating my well house with a real heater.

That's basically what we do, though we use a light bulb and fixture specifically designed for heating. We use a 250 Watt bulb instead of a 100 Watt one and put it in one of these, and then clamp the fixture to the pipe.

[MechAg94]

Would lights up at the ceiling provide any meaningful heat in the room?  The lights above the vanity mirror in my bathrooms used to be incandescent.  They put out lots of heat, but I think they were more than 100W. 

I have natural gas so heat isn't an issue for the 2 months of the year I may have it on part time.

[Ben]

That's basically what we do, though we use a light bulb and fixture specifically designed for heating. We use a 250 Watt bulb instead of a 100 Watt one and put it in one of these, and then clamp the fixture to the pipe.

To continue thread drift, maybe I'll look at something like that, or else a two-tierred system of a bulb and heater on thermostat timers. Coming from a place that never got below the high 20's for more than a few hours, I'm super-paranoid about freezing pipes and winterizing pipes, which I know little about. Electricity is super cheap here, so I'll probably be going overboard this year on the heat.

[Pb]

Good for Trump!   

Despite being a jerk without principles, he is the most conservative president I can personally recall.  Funny how that works...

I use led bulbs almost entirely.

However, the incandescent bulb ban infuriated me.

Firstly, the gov should not decide what kind of light bulbs we should be allowed to own.  That's petty, micromanaging rubbish that is incompatible with freedom of choice.

The constitution doesn't give the federal gov the power to decide what kind of light bulbs we can buy.

There are very valid reasons people choose incandescent bulbs.

As folks mentioned, many people use them for heat sources.  Reptile owners in particular use light bulbs to keep their animals warm.  The ban drove up the prices of these bulbs dramatically.

Some people just like the warm light of incandescent bulbs much better than the poorer quality light from alternatives.

LED and florescent light bulbs have a flicker... this is undetectable to most.  However, for some people it triggers migraines. This is probably the most use for these type of bulbs.

But... how long before a judge declares that this action by Trump is illegal?

[AZRedhawk44]

Let's say the incandescents make your home 1 degree warmer, versus the LED bulbs. Wouldn't the HVAC in your home do a better, more cost-effective job of heating your home by that extra degree?

In my home office, I have a ceiling fan that has a 3-bulb light fixture under it.  Those 3 bulbs are currently populated with 3x60w incandescent.  Yes, it's August, and I haven't changed them out for florescents this summer.  But, I also don't turn them on because I have a skylight that provides the majority of my light needs in that room during the summertime.

But... in the winter, that is 160 watts of heat (incandescents are only about 10% efficient at emitting light, the rest is waste heat).  It's localized into the room I'm using at that moment.  It probably makes for a 3-5 degree temperature difference between the rest of the house, not just 1 degree.  I can tell a distinct difference in heat output if I put 75 watt or larger bulbs in the fixtures.  The glass shrouds around the bulbs get uncomfortably hot (almost painfully hot) to touch.  I'd bet 100 watt bulbs in there would be able to generate close to a 10 degree F temp differential for a typical 12x12 bedroom.

That means when I work from home I can leave the heater off all day, if I spend the entire day in my office.  The HVAC system is 60 amps of 220v AC, about 13,000 watts.  Probably has a 10% duty cycle if it's 50 degrees outside and I want it 68 in the house.  I dunno, spitballing.

Watts is watts and heat is heat.  If your goal is heat, incandescents provide energy that is 90% efficient.

I don't know if my HVAC is 90% efficient in heating cycle.  It's a heat pump, not a heater.  It does 90% of its annual work as an air conditioner, fighting 115 degree outdoor temps to provide a 78 degree indoor temp.  I'm sure it's better optimized to cool than to heat.  Maybe I'm doing it a disservice?  But I don't think so.

[zxcvbob]

Watts is watts and heat is heat.  If your goal is heat, incandescents provide energy that is 90% efficient.

That 10% visible light gets converted to heat too.

[230RN]

That 10% visible light gets converted to heat too.

Thank you.  Beat me to it.