Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: MechAg94 on April 17, 2018, 03:18:16 PM
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https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/Airplane-Makes-Emergency-Landing-at-Philadelphia-International-Airport-480008613.html
Not sure how much of the "sucked out" actually happened. That was unclear. An engine exploded and threw shrapnel at the fuselage and took out one window. The jet descended rapidly and made an emergency landing.
This was interesting. Never having been in that situation, I can't say how I would react.
One terrified passenger posted a live video to his Facebook page during the ordeal. The grainy footage shows a man attempting to secure his yellow oxygen mask while updating loved ones following his feed.
"Something is wrong with our plane! It appears we are going down! Emergency landing!! Southwest flight from NYC to Dallas!!" Facebook user Marty Martinez wrote. He then added, "We are bracing for landing!!"
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Musta been the peanuts.
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Musta been the peanuts.
How did peanuts get sucked into the engine at 32,500 feet?
Where did peanuts come from?
Must be the aliens!
[tinfoil]
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That's gotta hurt.
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But did she plug the hole ??
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How did peanuts get sucked into the engine at 32,500 feet?
A seriously allergic engine just has to be on the same plane as the peanuts.
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A seriously allergic engine just has to be on the same plane as the peanuts.
One of the ground crew had a PB&J for lunch.
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Yikes
(https://i.imgur.com/3Sy4ew2.jpg?1)
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Well, three semi educated guesses. It was at altitude not long after takeoff. One, ate a really large bird or three climbing out, but think they would have noticed sooner and secured it.
My most likely is the inlet iced climbing out and a big chunk dislodged.
Or some A&PS and QA guys at a rebuild facility are sweating.
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I read an article on my phone that said the was reports of a fuel leak and engine fire.
Also saw one reported dead. No link right now because I'm I'm my phone.
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OK, outdoing United and American for passenger abuse was not a worthy goal.
Fox News reporting 1 fatality now.
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This reminds me of either a Twilight Zone episode or an Outer Limits episode where on a prop plane the propeller comes off and slices through the cabin crew.
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Did any of the passengers claim to see a gremlin on the wing?
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News reports are saying paramedics were using a defibrillator. I'm wondering if it was a stress-induced cardiac event rather than a physical injury.
Brad
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Looks like the fan seperated and destroyed the containment ring of the engine. The photo I saw of the broken window was from behind the engine inlet and above the wing. Nasty event.
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I read an article on my phone that said the was reports of a fuel leak and engine fire.
Other way around. The engine damage lead to the fuel leak and the fuel caught fire after landing. A minor fire, quickly extinguished.
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This was interesting. Never having been in that situation, I can't say how I would react.
Hopefully, you* listened to the safety briefing and will know how to correctly put on your O2 mask. Also, you'll hang up your damn phone long enough to pay attention to the crew instead of Facegraming or Instabooking.
*Generic you, not MechAg.
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Hopefully, you* listened to the safety briefing and will know how to correctly put on your O2 mask. Also, you'll hang up your damn phone long enough to pay attention to the crew instead of Facegraming or Instabooking.
*Generic you, not MechAg.
You mean these people?
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Hopefully, you* listened to the safety briefing and will know how to correctly put on your O2 mask. Also, you'll hang up your damn phone long enough to pay attention to the crew instead of Facegraming or Instabooking.
*Generic you, not MechAg.
Yeah, descending at 3000 feet per minute and the breathing masks dropping down, getting on facebook live would NOT be my priority.
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I would definitely not be taking any selfies. Remember, if you don't Facebook Live/selfie/live-Tweet it, it didn't happen. You can't die from something that never happened.
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Yeah, descending at 3000 feet per minute and the breathing masks dropping down, getting on facebook live would NOT be my priority.
Aw come on, don't you want your employer to see that your first reaction to a stressful situation is to go as public as possible with your extremely limited understanding of what's going on?
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Aw come on, don't you want your employer to see that your first reaction to a stressful situation is to go as public as possible with your extremely limited understanding of what's going on?
Just like CNN.
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http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2018/04/17/passenger-dies-southwest-airlines-plane-emergency-landing-philadelphia-airport-live-streaming/
The passenger has died. Female bank executive, mother of two.
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From the linked article it looks like fatigue failure at the blade root caused a rotor burst event. Containment structure failed to contain the shrapnel some of which penetrated the window. Woman sucked out to her waist or hips. Other pax pulled her back in, but between direct trauma, exposure to 500mph winds at 30k+ feet, and shock she didn't survive.
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I thought people being sucked out of windows was just a movie thing that didn't actually happen?
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https://www.dailywire.com/news/29565/heroic-female-pilot-flying-planes-gives-me-hank-berrien
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From the linked article it looks like fatigue failure at the blade root caused a rotor burst event. Containment structure failed to contain the shrapnel some of which penetrated the window. Woman sucked out to her waist or hips. Other pax pulled her back in, but between direct trauma, exposure to 500mph winds at 30k+ feet, and shock she didn't survive.
I'm not making light, I seriously would like to go out like that in some kind of unusual catastrophe, and be a nice 7 figure paycheck for my family, than die of something like cancer, or stupidly, like a slip in the shower.
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True, you only get to die once; so make it epic.
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https://www.dailywire.com/news/29565/heroic-female-pilot-flying-planes-gives-me-hank-berrien
More than a few prayers said on that flight, I'm sure.
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From the photos I've seen online, getting one piece of shrapnel to hit that window and break it was a lucky shot. I didn't see any other damage to the fuselage in that area.
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I think it's awfully early to say fatigue failure. You say that when pieces are in hand and analyzed in a lab and all the life limited components have had their records reviewed. Nothing in a motor is of indeterminate age and its life is well documented whether by hours or event cycles. Obviously the fan grenaded. Why will come later.
And as many jet engines that I have been under while powered I always knew where the plane of the turbine was and endeavored to not linger there.
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I'm not making light, I seriously would like to go out like that in some kind of unusual catastrophe, and be a nice 7 figure paycheck for my family, than die of something like cancer, or stupidly, like a slip in the shower.
I thought I saw somewhere that she was hit by the shrapnel that came through the window. I didn't see anything about the degree to which she was sucked out.
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I thought I saw somewhere that she was hit by the shrapnel that came through the window. I didn't see anything about the degree to which she was sucked out.
I think it's probably grossly overstated. She might have been sucked up against the window or toward the window if her seatbelt wasn't on. But halfway out doesn't seem possible. And if she was, the lexan shards still in the window frame would probably been as fatal if not more than the fragments from the unscheduled rapid disassembly of the engine.
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I think it's awfully early to say fatigue failure. You say that when pieces are in hand and analyzed in a lab and all the life limited components have had their records reviewed. Nothing in a motor is of indeterminate age and its life is well documented whether by hours or event cycles. Obviously the fan grenaded. Why will come later.
And as many jet engines that I have been under while powered I always knew where the plane of the turbine was and endeavored to not linger there.
Except that there have been previous failures of this type, coincidentally (or not) involving this model aircraft, this model engine, and this airline. If you've seen a previous failure and then you come across a new failure that looks an awful lot like the previous one(s), it's natural to formiulate an early theory as to cause.
Plane of the engine didn't apply in this case. The shattered part of the engine was forward of the wing, and the window that was taken out was aft of the wing root.
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5626379/Southwest-Airlines-flight-makes-emergency-landing-Philadelphia-engine-blows-out.html
The jet's CFM56-7B engines were made by CFM International, jointly owned by General Electric and Safran Aircraft Engines of France. CFM said in a statement that the CFM56-7B has had 'an outstanding safety and reliability record' since its debut in 1997, powering more than 6,700 aircraft worldwide.
Last year, the engine maker and the Federal Aviation Administration instructed airlines to make ultrasonic inspections of the fan blades of engines like those on the Southwest jet. The FAA said the move was prompted by a report of a fan blade failing and hurling debris. But it was unclear whether the particular engine that failed on Tuesday was covered by the directives.
'There's a ring around the engine that's meant to contain the engine pieces when this happens,' said John Goglia, a former NTSB member. 'In this case it didn't. That's going to be a big focal point for the NTSB - why didn't (the ring) do its job?'
In 2016, a Southwest Boeing 737-700 blew an engine as it flew from New Orleans to Orlando, Florida, and shrapnel tore a 5-by-16-inch hole just above the wing. The plane landed safely. The NTSB said a fan blade had broken off, apparently because of metal fatigue.
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I think it's probably grossly overstated. She might have been sucked up against the window or toward the window if her seatbelt wasn't on. But halfway out doesn't seem possible. And if she was, the lexan shards still in the window frame would probably been as fatal if not more than the fragments from the unscheduled rapid disassembly of the engine.
Witness reports were that she was out through the window to her hips. It is possible. A number of years ago a pilot was sucked mostly out of the cockpit when his side window shattered. A flight attendant inside the cockpit grabbed onto his legs while the copilot descended and landed the aircraft.
The pilot survived!
https://www.ripleys.com/weird-news/flight-5390/
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So kind of in concert with Hawkmoon's post:
Go to this link and look at pictures 25 and 26: https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/Southwest-Airlines-Emergency-Landing-Engine-PHL-480013443.html
They show a pretty intact engine, that's nacelle has been blown away. Comparing it with pictures of intact 737's (https://www.google.com/search?q=737+engine&rls=com.microsoft:en-US:IE-Address&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjNjZy_kMTaAhXE2lMKHTXfDLUQ_AUICigB&biw=1920&bih=949) it doesn't look like the fan, or any of the compressor stages exploded. In fact you can clearly see the front fan, including the little spiral they paint on the center cone, as well as the intact compressor housings.
Picture 25 does kinda look like ONE blade on the fan is missing.
It looks like the majority of the debris was engine nacelle rather than actual engine, which would kind fit with hitting the fuselage aft of the wing. Chunks of nacelle coming off wouldn't have the angular momentum of pieces of high RPM engine would.
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Witness reports were that she was out through the window to her hips. It is possible. A number of years ago a pilot was sucked mostly out of the cockpit when his side window shattered. A flight attendant inside the cockpit grabbed onto his legs while the copilot descended and landed the aircraft.
The pilot survived!
https://www.ripleys.com/weird-news/flight-5390/
There was a Navy LT a while back that half ejected from the right seat of an A-6 intruder, and hung out out there in the Windstream until the pilot could land.
http://www.gallagherstory.com/ejection_seat/
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Mythbusters did a show on people shooting out a window or the side of the fuselage. I think they tested whether someone would get sucked out. It would be interesting to simulate that at speeds say in a wind tunnel. In flight would be awesome, I just don't know how they would do that safely without huge costs.
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There is a reason why I always have the belt on loose unless I'm headed to the bathroom.
Jim
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It looks more like something(s) hit the nacelle, rather than any of fans spontaneously self-disassembling. I do see that at least one blade is missing, but it looks more like the result of something impacting the nacelle and shrapnel from that impact knocking off that blade. I am impressed that the rest of the fan didn't explode once out of balance from the missing blade.
And whatever impacted the window, would cause it to blow OUT, and not into the cabin.
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Picture 25 does kinda look like ONE blade on the fan is missing.
Actually, it looks a LOT like one blade has gone AWOL.
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Mythbusters did a show on people shooting out a window or the side of the fuselage. I think they tested whether someone would get sucked out. It would be interesting to simulate that at speeds say in a wind tunnel. In flight would be awesome, I just don't know how they would do that safely without huge costs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gKHzfGhjQo
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Example of everything that's wrong with "journalism" today:
http://www.wtnh.com/news/connecticut/connecticut-man-who-was-on-ill-fated-plane-describes-experience/1127941207
Television station in New Haven, Connecticut. Nowhere near the location of the incident, but apparently not content to just rebroadcast photos, videos and statements from other sources, so they bring in an expert -- an aviation medical examiner (i.e. a doctor), who proceeds to expond on matters about which he likely has very little knowledge, and what knowledge he has is not as a result of his profession. His expert commentary was derived from ... watching cell phone videos taken by passengers.
To make their interview with the doctor look more authoritative, they staged it with a chain link fence and some airplanes in the background. Not THE airplane -- not even commercial, passenger planes. Just small, general aviation aircraft. It was probably filmed outside New Haven airport (which, last I knew, was basically an aviation footnote).
Comic relief for a boring Wednesday.
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Some AMEs are pilots others are just quacks who happen to be granted the authority to do a rather basic official physical. This one sounds like the latter
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Some AMEs are pilots others are just quacks who happen to be granted the authority to do a rather basic official physical. This one sounds like the latter
Not disputing that he could be a pilot. I could be a pilot, too -- but I'm not a commercial airline pilot and neither is he, and he's also not an aviation accident investigator. He's a doctor who should not be commenting on things his expertise doesn't cover.
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Not disputing that he could be a pilot. I could be a pilot, too -- but I'm not a commercial airline pilot and neither is he, and he's also not an aviation accident investigator. He's a doctor who should not be commenting on things his expertise doesn't cover.
But then he wouldn't get paid.
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My flying experience is limited to video games and computer flight simulators, but it would seem to me that having the engine suddenly stop, and a hole to develop in the side of the plane would make continued flight and landing pretty challenging, to say the least. Heard the radio traffic between the pilot and tower. Man, she's got ice water in her veins. Maybe you make enough carrier landings, this doesn't spike your BP much at all.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyHdFqIvppg
It's a clip from Inside Edition with the audio, and pictures showing the pilot checking on the passengers after the landing,
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I think it's awfully early to say fatigue failure. You say that when pieces are in hand and analyzed in a lab and all the life limited components have had their records reviewed. Nothing in a motor is of indeterminate age and its life is well documented whether by hours or event cycles. Obviously the fan grenaded. Why will come later.
And as many jet engines that I have been under while powered I always knew where the plane of the turbine was and endeavored to not linger there.
If you can look at the fractured face of the bit remaining in the hub it's pretty obvious if it was fatigue vs something else. Fatigue failures leave characteristic marks on the surface. Plus, as noted by others, that engine has had fatigue failures, and enough problems to lead to an AD.
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My flying experience is limited to video games and computer flight simulators, but it would seem to me that having the engine suddenly stop, and a hole to develop in the side of the plane would make continued flight and landing pretty challenging, to say the least.
Other than the need to get folks down to a better breathing altitude RFN, a window-sized hole shouldn't make a lot of difference to the pilot. Losing an engine is pretty heavily covered in multi-engine training, and I'd assume each stage of training thereafter. Plus, I suspect a 737 would have to be on the verge of coming apart at every seam before it could get as sporty as a F-18 would be in normal flight.
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And now for something completely different: some information from an actual 737 pilot. Unfortunately, he didn't have a doctor, millennial snowflake or any other sort of person available to speculate, but he does the best he can with just his thousands of hours of experience.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzkfYj6SBxo
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Other than the need to get folks down to a better breathing altitude RFN, a window-sized hole shouldn't make a lot of difference to the pilot. Losing an engine is pretty heavily covered in multi-engine training, and I'd assume each stage of training thereafter. Plus, I suspect a 737 would have to be on the verge of coming apart at every seam before it could get as sporty as a F-18 would be in normal flight.
There was some damage to the leading edge of the wing, too. And I'm sure the jagged remains of the #1 engine weren't especially aerodynamic.
Normal approach speed for the 737-700 is 170 knots, landing speed is about 135 knots. The ATC audio included the pilot at one point saying she was at 210 knots for controllability.
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Amy Schumer remarked, Reply #40,
"It looks more like something(s) hit the nacelle..."
I wondered about that, too and thought maybe the nacelle/shrouding wasn't properly fastened and came loose in flight. Pictures from the right side of the plane seem to show "something" sticking up from the engine after the plane came to rest. I didn't see that in other pictures from the left side of the plane.
Terry
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And now for something completely different: some information from an actual 737 pilot. Unfortunately, he didn't have a doctor, millennial snowflake or any other sort of person available to speculate, but he does the best he can with just his thousands of hours of experience.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzkfYj6SBxo
But he's a white male - how can we trust anything he says?
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And now for something completely different: some information from an actual 737 pilot. Unfortunately, he didn't have a doctor, millennial snowflake or any other sort of person available to speculate, but he does the best he can with just his thousands of hours of experience.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzkfYj6SBxo
Thanks. That was actually very informative.
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Amy Schumer remarked, Reply #40,
"It looks more like something(s) hit the nacelle..."
I wondered about that, too and thought maybe the nacelle/shrouding wasn't properly fastened and came loose in flight. Pictures from the right side of the plane seem to show "something" sticking up from the engine after the plane came to rest. I didn't see that in other pictures from the left side of the plane.
Terry
That is the passenger boarding door.
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There was some damage to the leading edge of the wing, too. And I'm sure the jagged remains of the #1 engine weren't especially aerodynamic.
I'd bet the bits still mostly attached but flopping around were shaking things up a bit, but still a far cry from a supersonic fighter. Leading edge damage doesn't look like much, but then I'm comparing mostly to smaller GA aircraft (including crop dusters that sometimes looked like they were trying to beat A-10s for the "least intact aircraft brought home" award) that I've seen come in damaged; not sure how much more sensitive the 737 is to that.
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That is the passenger boarding door.
Ah! Thanks. It all hangs together now in that blurry picture.
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So...ATC asked her "Is your airplane physically on fire?"
Uh, what other kind of on fire can an airplane be?
"Nah, it just found Jesus and it's on fire with the Spirit, now can I get a vector to a lake big enough to baptize it?"
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That would be a higher plane of existence.
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Another damn pilot with more technical information.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKLcOgvgCcU
It's so hard to find good sources on this, like high school students, politicians and journalists with in-depth technical explanations.
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So...ATC asked her "Is your airplane physically on fire?"
Uh, what other kind of on fire can an airplane be?
"Nah, it just found Jesus and it's on fire with the Spirit, now can I get a vector to a lake big enough to baptize it?"
Yeah dipshit it's actually important. Did you have a fire or are you *expletive deleted*ing on fire?
Not that I'd know anything about handling an aircraft emergency.
Haven't had any this week though. Just two medical emergencies.
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Another damn pilot with more technical information.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKLcOgvgCcU
It's so hard to find good sources on this, like high school students, politicians and journalists with in-depth technical explanations.
BORING!
Too many facts. We need more images of the aircraft taken from 75 miles away with telephoto lenses so we can really know what happened.
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Yeah dipshit it's actually important.
Lighten up, Francis.
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Yeah dipshit it's actually important. Did you have a fire or are you *expletive deleted*ing on fire?
So, is it FAA or ICAO that publishes the thesaurus where "physically" is now a synonym for "currently," rather than a completely unrelated word?
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So, is it FAA or ICAO that publishes the thesaurus where "physically" is now a synonym for "currently," rather than a completely unrelated word?
Both have guidelines for using plain language in place of standardized verbiage and I'm not faulting the controller for not using a synonym that meets your standards but still got the point across in a high pressure situation.
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Both have guidelines for using plain language in place of standardized verbiage and I'm not faulting the controller for not using a synonym that meets your standards but still got the point across in a high pressure situation.
[British Accent] If he does not use the Oxford comma, I simply will not reply. We shant encourage barbaric language you know. [\British Accent]
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Hey, somewhere along the line someone got runway two-sumpin'-sumpin' left mixed up with two sumpin'-sumpin' right. We could rag on that until Reply # 134.
The guy perhaps screwed up a little on the precise word under pressure. He should go stand in the corner for fifteen minutes and that should end it. All right, children, nappie time. Heads down on your desks on folded arms.
Jeeze, you guys. A woman got killed when an engine broke and something hit her window.
Jeeze, you guys. Choose seconds and weapons and meet at the agreed-upon place and time, already.
Jeeze, you guys.
Terry
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Hey, somewhere along the line someone got runway two-sumpin'-sumpin' left mixed up with two sumpin'-sumpin' right.
Actually, I was sort of surprised they cared L or R; they knew full well they'd be shutting the place down as soon as she got there, and every engine out emergency response I've heard was "wind is x, you tell us where you're going and we'll send the trucks there."
Looking at the satellite view, I see a few good reasons for 27L now; 27R is right by the passenger terminals, where as 27L is conveniently located by the fire station and the river, with nothing except cargo traffic having any reason to cross it. Plus, with a left engine out, there's a fair chance complete loss of control would send the plane into NJ, where it won't matter so much.
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And where she parked was almost at the end -- she was right at the entrance to/exit ramp from the deicing pad.
I'm still wondering where they towed the plane when they moved it. There don't seem to be any hangers at PHL large enough to handle even a 737.
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I think one of the interesting things is that while there's a lot of damage on the engine (obviously) and leading edge of the wing (expected) I find it interesting that it appears the only damage on the fuselage was that *one* window. It's kinda hard not to see that and think, "Man - talk about God saying, 'Your time is up!'"
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The fatally injured woman's cause of death:
https://www.dailywire.com/news/29619/medical-examiner-reveals-cause-death-woman-joseph-curl (https://www.dailywire.com/news/29619/medical-examiner-reveals-cause-death-woman-joseph-curl)
“The top half of her torso was out the window,” Max Kraidelman told The New York Times. “There was a lot of blood because she was hit by some of the shrapnel coming off the engine after it exploded.”
=( =( =(
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Actually, I was sort of surprised they cared L or R; they knew full well they'd be shutting the place down as soon as she got there, and every engine out emergency response I've heard was "wind is x, you tell us where you're going and we'll send the trucks there."
Looking at the satellite view, I see a few good reasons for 27L now; 27R is right by the passenger terminals, where as 27L is conveniently located by the fire station and the river, with nothing except cargo traffic having any reason to cross it. Plus, with a left engine out, there's a fair chance complete loss of control would send the plane into NJ, where it won't matter so much.
Yup if we can put an a/c on a specific runway we usually try to do so as far away from the other airport stuff. IAD has triples, 01L/19R is the preferred spot for emergencies if there's a concern for fire or if they'll shut the runway down.
My last one had an oil pressure issue and wanted 01R, and I had a 5 arrivals behind him. They taxied clear just fine but airport ops wanted a look at the runway so I had to move 2 over to 01C. Where I already had a couple arrivals.
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From a pilot perspective, we generally want the longest available runway that points into the wind. In PHL, runway 27L is the longest and it was into the wind on that day.
If the emergency aircraft and emergency equipment aren't interfering with normal operations, then the airport will continue to allow aircraft to arrive and depart.
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If the emergency aircraft and emergency equipment aren't interfering with normal operations, then the airport will continue to allow aircraft to arrive and depart.
The end of 27L is well to the west of 27R, and she parked in the taxiway, almost into the ramp to/from the deicing pad. 27R should have been clear, but they shut down the airport for three hours. Anybody know why they couldn't have kept flying on 27R?
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The end of 27L is well to the west of 27R, and she parked in the taxiway, almost into the ramp to/from the deicing pad. 27R should have been clear, but they shut down the airport for three hours. Anybody know why they couldn't have kept flying on 27R?
Maybe PHL didn't want departing aircraft to fly over the disable aircraft and emergency responders.
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I reckon.
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Another issue is resources. Depending on the resources being used to handle an emergency, there might not be enough available for subsequent emergencies. This was an issue more than once when I was in the Marines, during exercises having more than one emergency in progress and tapping the ARFF capabilities out.
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Another issue is resources. Depending on the resources being used to handle an emergency, there might not be enough available for subsequent emergencies. This was an issue more than once when I was in the Marines, during exercises having more than one emergency in progress and tapping the ARFF capabilities out.
True. From the satellite images it appears the on-site fire department facility is fairly small. That said, the recordings of radio traffic indicated that the tower initially told other planes to shut down (presumably wherever they sat) and that there would be a 15 minute hold. That eventually became something like three hours. They had any small fire(s) contained long before that, and people were off the plane probably within the first ten or fifteen minutes. They certainly could have returned all the fire trucks (or maybe all but one) to the station and let the airport start operating again. Maybe take-offs on 27L and landings on 27R?
I'm sure someone made a decision to "err on the side of safety," but it is puzzling.
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True. From the satellite images it appears the on-site fire department facility is fairly small. That said, the recordings of radio traffic indicated that the tower initially told other planes to shut down (presumably wherever they sat) and that there would be a 15 minute hold. That eventually became something like three hours. They had any small fire(s) contained long before that, and people were off the plane probably within the first ten or fifteen minutes. They certainly could have returned all the fire trucks (or maybe all but one) to the station and let the airport start operating again. Maybe take-offs on 27L and landings on 27R?
I'm sure someone made a decision to "err on the side of safety," but it is puzzling.
That long of a shut down is definitely the doing of the airport authority. Who ever owns and manages the runway is the ultimate authority for closing it. We can shut down surfaces temporarily because of incidents but the airport quickly makes the determination if it's an actual closure or not.
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Here is another piece to the puzzle: https://www.journal-news.com/business/faa-likely-require-inspections-cfm-engines/nPFxrsBjHGpF2BHQMEpubO/?ecmp=journalnews_social_facebook_2014_sfp (https://www.journal-news.com/business/faa-likely-require-inspections-cfm-engines/nPFxrsBjHGpF2BHQMEpubO/?ecmp=journalnews_social_facebook_2014_sfp)
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Here is another piece to the puzzle: https://www.journal-news.com/business/faa-likely-require-inspections-cfm-engines/nPFxrsBjHGpF2BHQMEpubO/?ecmp=journalnews_social_facebook_2014_sfp (https://www.journal-news.com/business/faa-likely-require-inspections-cfm-engines/nPFxrsBjHGpF2BHQMEpubO/?ecmp=journalnews_social_facebook_2014_sfp)
The Federal Aviation Administration said Wednesday evening it will require inspections of aircraft engines made by a Butler County company involved in the emergency that killed at least one passenger on Southwest Flight 1380.
"At least one passenger?" OK, in the strictest sense, "exactly one" does fall within the bounds of "at least one," but WTF?
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Maybe they expect more to suscumb.
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Maybe they expect more to suscumb.
Did I miss something? Aside from Riordan, I thought the worst any passengers had was a few minor bruises and scrapes.
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None of them have started talking yet.
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Here is another piece to the puzzle: https://www.journal-news.com/business/faa-likely-require-inspections-cfm-engines/nPFxrsBjHGpF2BHQMEpubO/?ecmp=journalnews_social_facebook_2014_sfp (https://www.journal-news.com/business/faa-likely-require-inspections-cfm-engines/nPFxrsBjHGpF2BHQMEpubO/?ecmp=journalnews_social_facebook_2014_sfp)
Great.
“I’m very concerned about this particular event,” NTSB Chairman Robert Sumwalt said at a press briefing Wednesday.
Sumwalt also said the widely used CFM engine has a solid safety record and it was too early to determine if the accident pointed to a broader hazard for travelers, the Journal reported.
Whatever happened to the old "Out of an abundance of caution" schtick they use when going after lawful gun owners when some nutcase shoots up a school? This is the second explosion of this type of engine, on this type of aircraft, operated by this particular airline, within two years. They got lucky with the first one. This time one person died. How many deaths will be necessary before we progress to recognizing a hazard?
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Other than the need to get folks down to a better breathing altitude RFN, a window-sized hole shouldn't make a lot of difference to the pilot. Losing an engine is pretty heavily covered in multi-engine training, and I'd assume each stage of training thereafter. Plus, I suspect a 737 would have to be on the verge of coming apart at every seam before it could get as sporty as a F-18 would be in normal flight.
Wasn't there one of these passenger jets that had a huge section of it's roof rip off and still remain flying?
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Great.
Whatever happened to the old "Out of an abundance of caution" schtick they use when going after lawful gun owners when some nutcase shoots up a school? This is the second explosion of this type of engine, on this type of aircraft, operated by this particular airline, within two years. They got lucky with the first one. This time one person died. How many deaths will be necessary before we progress to recognizing a hazard?
It's a matter of scale. The amount of successful, problem free hours on this engine is staggering, both with and without considering a single airline.
And there WILL be an inspection requirement, so it's not like theyre doing nothing. Until a metallurgical analysis indicates why the thing failed, there's no benefit to pulling them all or stopping their flights. So, if the ultrasonic inspections of the rest of the fleet reveal a systemic problem, that'll allow them to narrow it down even more. Potentially to the foundry that made the metal.
They don't know what happened yet. It could have been a piece of loose sheet metal patching on something else that got sucked into it. there's a million probable causes.
There's so much documentation on these engines , the origin of every piece is known. With only two engines failing, they have to narrow it down more before they'll be able to say "all engines from XYZ factory with blades produced between XYZ and XYZ, with aluminum from ABC Corporation, need new fans asap"
They're
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Wasn't there one of these passenger jets that had a huge section of it's roof rip off and still remain flying?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aloha_Airlines_Flight_243
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Wasn't there one of these passenger jets that had a huge section of it's roof rip off and still remain flying?
Aloha Airlines. I believe that was also a 737, but a much earlier model.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aloha_Airlines_Flight_243
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.barnorama.com%2Fwp-content%2Fimages%2F2013%2F01%2F243_aloha%2F01-243_aloha.jpg&hash=c5dea32c6d21d8bdaf8cb2e3421bf2b6da8640eb)
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Sunroof!
What a concept!
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I also remember back in the late 80's early 90's there were a few 737-200 type that lost a motor, not just quit working but falling completely off of the aircraft. That would raise the pucker factor a bit. ;)
bob
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Those planes, with the right pilot, can fly with an amazing amount of damage.
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Thanks, Hawkmoon.
http://www.armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=57219.msg1159345#msg1159345
Gotcha by three minutes.
=D
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Thanks, Hawkmoon.
http://www.armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=57219.msg1159345#msg1159345
Gotcha by three minutes.
I noticed that as soon as I hit "post." You only beat me because I looked up a photo. :laugh:
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Sunroof!
What a concept!
Though the wind is a biotch.
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Though the wind is a biotch.
But it's worth it for that view! :facepalm:
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I also remember back in the late 80's early 90's there were a few 737-200 type that lost a motor, not just quit working but falling completely off of the aircraft. That would raise the pucker factor a bit. ;)
bob
Could get exciting for people on the ground as well.
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https://www.nytimes.com/1990/01/05/us/jet-lands-after-an-engine-drops-off.html
Ain't that a pisser?
I recall seeing a newspaper pic of an engine plus parts sitting on the ground still smoking but I don't remember where, and I wanted to beat Hawkmoon on this post.
:rofl: :neener:
Interesting sidelights I got from somewhere or other...
"The engines on the 727 are designed to break away from the plane under extreme stress so the vibration will not damage the airplane, said Craig Martin, a Boeing spokesman. The engine is designed to separate cleanly, without damaging the airplane."
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/elderly-woman-coins-jet-engine-chinese-good-luck-shanghai-guangzhou-china-southern-airlines-a7810721.html
"A flight in China was delayed for five hours after an elderly passenger threw coins into the aircraft’s engine for good luck.
The 80-year-old passenger, surnamed Qiu, was boarding the China Southern Airlines flight from Shanghai to Guangzhou with her family when she stopped to make the ‘blessings’.
Then she threw nine coins at the aircraft’s engine turbine. Concerned fellow passengers alerted airline staff."
Terry, 230RN
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Then she threw nine coins at the aircraft’s engine turbine. Concerned fellow passengers alerted airline staff."
That's not change I can believe in.
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But it's worth it for that view! :facepalm:
Unless you have acrophobia.
Which I do.
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Way back in my old Navy days we used to a get a weekly safety brief.
It had summaries of various incidents and accidents and the contributing factors and causes.
There was always a single line entry:
THIS WEEK THERE WERE XX INCIDENTS OF "THINGS FALLING OFF AIRCRAFT".
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Way back in my old Navy days we used to a get a weekly safety brief.
It had summaries of various incidents and accidents and the contributing factors and causes.
There was always a single line entry:
THIS WEEK THERE WERE XX INCIDENTS OF "THINGS FALLING OFF AIRCRAFT".
I was on a few airplanes that had "things" fall off that weren't supposed to fall off. =|
bob