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Author Topic: What caliber most likely to result in death? A large one  (Read 1814 times)

MillCreek

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What caliber most likely to result in death? A large one
« on: July 27, 2018, 05:34:00 PM »
https://www.medpagetoday.com/publichealthpolicy/publichealth/74274

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2688536

'Large' is defined as .357 magnum, .40, .44 magnum, .45, 10 mm, and 7.62 × 39 mm. 
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French G.

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Re: What caliber most likely to result in death? A large one
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2018, 05:42:43 PM »
Pretty small sample group. I agree of course with the conclusion that bigger holes make you deader but science? What if the large caliber shooters were experienced criminals and selected more effective guns and were better at placing their shots? Most people taking up a life of crime pick out a big gun so I would imagine the .22 homicides were unplanned things, drunk altercations or crimes of passion done by reduced capacity shooters of less firearms experience.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: What caliber most likely to result in death? A large one
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2018, 07:27:55 PM »
Quote from: MillCreek on July 27, 2018, 05:34:00 PM
https://www.medpagetoday.com/publichealthpolicy/publichealth/74274

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2688536

'Large' is defined as .357 magnum, .40, .44 magnum, .45, 10 mm, and 7.62 × 39 mm. 

So .357 is a "large" caliber, but .380 ACP, .38 Special, and 9x19 aren't? And 7.62x39 (.30 caliber) is "large" but .32 [anything] isn't? What about .327 Federal Magnum?
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Scout26

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Re: What caliber most likely to result in death? A large one
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2018, 07:32:29 PM »
Hawkmoon beat me to it.  Given the number of Hi-Points and Sigmas in 9mm that are used in crimes. Especially by urban gangs.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: What caliber most likely to result in death? A large one
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2018, 11:02:54 PM »
There's just nothing quite like using terms without having any idea what they mean.

From the second article:

Quote
These 367 cases were divided into 3 groups by caliber: small (.22, .25, and .32), medium (.38, .380, and 9 mm), or large (.357 magnum, .40, .44 magnum, .45, 10 mm, and 7.62 × 39 mm).

Never mind that .38, .380,. 9mm and .357 are all the exact same caliber. And never mind that 7.62 x anything is .30 caliber, so hardly qualifying as "large."

I wonder if John Lott will weigh in on this ...
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Scout26

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Re: What caliber most likely to result in death? A large one
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2018, 11:35:06 PM »
Trick question.  Unless you recover the gun how can you tell the difference between 9mm (.356 inches), 38 Special (.357 inches) and .357 Magnum ??

Since large, includes 7.62x39 (.30 inches) wouldn't that be "medium"

And I see no mention of .223 or 5.56mm....

Study is crap.
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just Warren

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Re: What caliber most likely to result in death? A large one
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2018, 11:45:57 PM »
Quote from: Amy Schumer on July 27, 2018, 11:35:06 PM
Trick question.  Unless you recover the gun how can you tell the difference between 9mm (.356 inches), 38 Special (.357 inches) and .357 Magnum ??


Thankfully, our real-world crime scene techs have been trained by the CSI and NCIS franchises to be able to determine the caliber, make and model of the gun just by looking at the slug and sometimes just the GSW itself.
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BlueStarLizzard

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Re: What caliber most likely to result in death? A large one
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2018, 03:26:36 PM »
Quote from: Amy Schumer on July 27, 2018, 11:35:06 PM

And I see no mention of .223 or 5.56mm....

Study is crap.

Yes, they do. It's under "small"  ;)
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Perd Hapley

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Re: What caliber most likely to result in death? A large one
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2018, 01:07:09 AM »
That 7.62 is so enormous, and so deadly. Let us hope the PPK, in the vast 7.65 chambering, never reaches these shores.
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: What caliber most likely to result in death? A large one
« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2018, 01:19:58 AM »
Quote from: fistful on July 29, 2018, 01:07:09 AM
That 7.62 is so enormous, and so deadly. Let us hope the PPK, in the vast 7.65 chambering, never reaches these shores.

Yeah, my 1891 Argentine Mauser chambered for 7.65x53mm is brutal.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: What caliber most likely to result in death? A large one
« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2018, 01:27:07 AM »
Quote from: RoadKingLarry on July 29, 2018, 01:19:58 AM
Yeah, my 1891 Argentine Mauser chambered for 7.65x53mm is brutal.

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Jim147

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Re: What caliber most likely to result in death? A large one
« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2018, 10:58:32 AM »
And that's just the muzzle blast.
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Re: What caliber most likely to result in death? A large one
« Reply #12 on: July 29, 2018, 12:22:51 PM »
A 16" naval rifle is the only way to be sure.  Overpenetration be damned.
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MechAg94

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Re: What caliber most likely to result in death? A large one
« Reply #13 on: July 29, 2018, 03:59:09 PM »
Glancing at the links, it sounds a lot like the stuff that came out a year or two ago that said there was an order of magnitude difference in results between 9mm luger and larger (more powerful) and calibers such as 38 Special and 380 acp and smaller.  In this case, I am not completely sure if 9mm luger is in the medium category or the large category in the link.
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lee n. field

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Re: What caliber most likely to result in death? A large one
« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2018, 05:02:24 PM »
Quote from: MechAg94 on July 29, 2018, 03:59:09 PM
Glancing at the links, it sounds a lot like the stuff that came out a year or two ago that said there was an order of magnitude difference in results between 9mm luger and larger (more powerful) and calibers such as 38 Special and 380 acp and smaller.  In this case, I am not completely sure if 9mm luger is in the medium category or the large category in the link.

Greg Ellefritz' results?    IIRC, his diving line was .380 and above, as noticeably more effective than smaller cartridges.

https://www.buckeyefirearms.org/alternate-look-handgun-stopping-power
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Hawkmoon

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Re: What caliber most likely to result in death? A large one
« Reply #15 on: July 30, 2018, 12:44:56 AM »
Quote from: lee n. field on July 29, 2018, 05:02:24 PM
Greg Ellefritz' results?    IIRC, his diving line was .380 and above, as noticeably more effective than smaller cartridges.

https://www.buckeyefirearms.org/alternate-look-handgun-stopping-power

So we should all give up on .357 Magnum and buy .380s?

Check.
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MechAg94

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Re: What caliber most likely to result in death? A large one
« Reply #16 on: July 30, 2018, 11:53:48 AM »
Quote from: Hawkmoon on July 30, 2018, 12:44:56 AM
So we should all give up on .357 Magnum and buy .380s?

Check.
Looks like he ranked 357 Mag/Sig above 9mm. 

Quote
This study took me a long time and a lot of effort to complete. Despite the work it took, I'm glad I did it. The results I got from the study lead me to believe that there really isn't that much difference between most defensive handgun rounds and calibers. None is a death ray, but most work adequately...even the lowly .22s. I've stopped worrying about trying to find the "ultimate" bullet. There isn't one. And I've stopped feeling the need to strap on my .45 every time I leave the house out of fear that my 9mm doesn't have enough "stopping power." Folks, carry what you want. Caliber really isn't all that important.

Take a look at the data. I hope it helps you decide what weapon to carry. No matter which gun you choose, pick one that is reliable and train with it until you can get fast accurate hits. Nothing beyond that really matters!
 
Rifles are rifles, pistols are pistols? 
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