Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: Ron on September 16, 2013, 10:26:21 AM
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/police-search-for-active-shooter-on-grounds-of-washington-navy-yard-in-southeast-dc/2013/09/16/b1d72b9a-1ecb-11e3-b7d1-7153ad47b549_story.html
Police say three shooters, including at least one in fatigues, have shot at least 10 people at the Washington Navy Yard.
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Story is all over the nooz. Right now (10:24 EDT) they are reporting there are/may be multiple shooters involved - quite an update from jusat a few minutes ago when the report was the (a) shooter was captured - not shot, not killed, but captured.
Talking heads are becoming more positive that there is more than one shooter, and revising victim count to 1 dead and 5 woulded. This is different from an "official" release from "a senior navy official" who has given the 12 shot, 4 dead and 8 still. Confirmation at 10:30 is 10 shot, 4 dead, and only one shooter. Word on the status of the shooter not changed.
Every law enforcement agency within 7 counties seems to have some presence. DEA/Reagan National is allowing planes to land but not allowing take-offs. Talk about jammed taxiways.
Six (6) DC schools on lockdown - one of which does not have anybody assigned to it. (So why did they lock it down?)
Prayers for the victims, but I gotta ask - how's that gun free zone stuff working for ya?
DC Metro buses are evacuating Navy Yard personnel who are not wounded. No word if they are actually confirming ID as they take them out. (Have I been reading too many novels?)
stay safe.
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how's that gun free zone stuff working for ya?
To be fair, this is at a naval yard. .Mil base. There are armed MP's or whatever equivalent the Navy has, but it isn't a school, airport or mall as is typical of these things.
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To be fair, this is at a naval yard. .Mil base. There are armed MP's or whatever equivalent the Navy has, but it isn't a school, airport or mall as is typical of these things.
Your extensive knowledge of the military in full swing again? Most military installations have about the same amount of readily armed guards as a small town or city. I'd be shocked if there were more than a dozen armed guards/MP's on duty at the Naval yard. Maybe less if the Navy Yard doesn't have any on-station housing. QRF would act similarly to a civilian swat team...off duty officers on call.
For all purposes it is a gun free zone. Your average college probably has more armed officers on duty.
And actually after doing some research on the Navy Yard, I'd be shocked if they had their own QRF. QRF probably comes from other agencies or nearby facilities.
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To be fair, this is at a naval yard. .Mil base. There are armed MP's or whatever equivalent the Navy has, but it isn't a school, airport or mall as is typical of these things.
Na, I'd be surprised if the Naval yard had as much security or armed personnel as the average school, airport or mall.
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First, another update - one shooter reported dead. That the dead shooter was the only shooter is NOT being even suggested.
Because, among other reasons it would take too long to search every employee vehicle, vehicles with base stickers are waved through, and those with stickers from other bases are stopped to determine their destination but not searched. Only vehicles without stickers are subject to search.
My logic-fu strongly suggests the shooter came through with a base sticker.
Jamis - WNY has probably fewer security/guards than most military bases in the DC area, based on my personal observations on the few times I have been there over the past 3 years. And yes, based on the fact that the civillian worker force overwhelms the numbers of active duty, the presence of a QRF on site is doubtful. Naval Investigation Service has a presence on base, but I seriously doubt if they have long arms or SWAT toys stored there. Navy/Marine Corps bases where I have had interaction with NIS revealed that for the most part they walk around in Class A uniforms with concealed sidearms - the base MPs could outgun them just by bringing a few shotguns. (This does not mean I know anything about NIS at WNY. It's just an observation by one person.)
All of which means when the balloon goes up you are on your own until someone telegraphs to Ft. Apache, Rin Tin Tin and the cavalry saddles up, and they get there - but unlike the movies/TV, not in the nick of time.
stay safe.
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Another update -
The shooter walked into the building with a double-barrel shotgun, shot the armed civillian guard on duty in the building, then was targeting specific individuals.
Also words to the effect that "one shooter is dead". There is an ongoing search but there is no confirmation that there is actually a second shooter.
Geo. Washington Univ. Hospital chief medical officer says wounds are consistent with a semiautomatic weapon for the 3 victims they have, including a DC Metro police officer shot in both legs. Employees at the Navy Yard describe hearing pop-pop-pop shooting.
So - everything is crystal clear and we know every detail of the event, just like the Warren Commission closed out the JFK shooting.
stay safe.
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"civilian guard". So really, they probably don't have MP's on site. Probably about the same security as a high end office building suite or federal building.
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"civilian guard". So really, they probably don't have MP's on site. Probably about the same security as a high end office building suite or federal building.
Not hardly. The nooz just described the place as "a high security sitre, just like all other military bases." :facepalm:
The Navy does not have MPs - they have Shore Patrol. And yes, there are SPs at WNY, along with NIS and several other alphabet agencies and at least two that I personally know of that do not, never have, and never will exist. But they are mostly there to provide specific-point security to specific doorways ("hatches) and corridors ("passageways") to the Navy. Civillian contract police usually handle perimeter security including outside doorways, as well as entrance gate duty.
Marines with automatic weapons are described as patroling the sidewalks outside 8th & Eye Marine barracks. From the halls of no mazuma to the sidewalks of DC. Semper Fi!
stay safe.
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Your extensive knowledge of the military in full swing again? Most military installations have about the same amount of readily armed guards as a small town or city. I'd be shocked if there were more than a dozen armed guards/MP's on duty at the Naval yard. Maybe less if the Navy Yard doesn't have any on-station housing. QRF would act similarly to a civilian swat team...off duty officers on call.
For all purposes it is a gun free zone. Your average college probably has more armed officers on duty.
And actually after doing some research on the Navy Yard, I'd be shocked if they had their own QRF. QRF probably comes from other agencies or nearby facilities.
;/
You guys are so fond of pointing out how rights don't exist for servicemen, so 2A and gun free zone / victim disarmament zone arguments don't apply anyways.
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Better 4,5, a dozen folks die unarmed than one officer lose his career due to a subordinate having a negligent discharge.
We really need to keep our priorities straight.
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Better 4,5, a dozen folks die unarmed than one officer lose his career due to a subordinate having a negligent discharge.
We really need to keep our priorities straight.
they play the odds.
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;/
You guys are so fond of pointing out how rights don't exist for servicemen, so 2A and gun free zone / victim disarmament zone arguments don't apply anyways.
I beg your pardon. I complain, bitterly, about servicemembers being stripped of their 2A rights, not fondly pointing out the fact. Some few commanders apparently agree as shown by them allowing the carry of personal weapons off-base.
I am opposed to servicemembers in uniform carrying military arms off base because that puts a standing army on the streets. But that does not mean that I am opposed to ative duty servicemembers carrying military arms (loaded preferably but I will accept Israeli-style magazine carried separately) on base. If we trust them to follow ROE on the battlefield, why should we not trust them on base?
Now that I have addressed your strawman, can we focus on the fact that for all intents and purposes this attack was focused on civillian employees? Three thousand of them alone assigned to the one building where we know shootings took place.
stay safe.
Edited to fix typo
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My logic-fu strongly suggests the shooter came through with a base sticker.
More "workplace violence" ;/
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I beg your pardon. I complain, bitterly, about servicemembers being stripped of their 2A rights, not fondly pointing out the fact. Some few commanders apparently agree as shown by them allowing the carry of personal weapons off-base.
Point of order.
I have been advised that telling a servicemember that they cannot carry off base (when the law otherwise allows it) is prohibited , and is an unlawful order.
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Major Nidal Hasan murdered thirteen unarmed service members in the Ft. Hood shooting, and wounded 29 more unarmed soldiers in his spree of
Islamic terrorism workplace violence. He was eventually taken down by two DACP - Department of the Army Civilian Police - one of whom was wounded in the process.
There have been plenty of stories over the past decades of unarmed guards on military bases, guards with only billy clubs, and "armed" sentries issued no ammunition whatsoever.
Policies in place favor the odds that a determined, armed attacker in a domestic military base will be able to continue unopposed long enough to do some real damage.
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Major Nidal Hasan murdered thirteen unarmed service members in the Ft. Hood shooting, and wounded 29 more unarmed soldiers in his spree of Islamic terrorism workplace violence. He was eventually taken down by two DACP - Department of the Army Civilian Police - one of whom was wounded in the process.
There have been plenty of stories over the past decades of unarmed guards on military bases, guards with only billy clubs, and "armed" sentries issued no ammunition whatsoever.
Policies in place favor the odds that a determined, armed attacker in a domestic military base will be able to continue unopposed long enough to do some real damage.
Yep.
It's idiotic. We can be trusted with HE, machine guns, and all manner of toys in country... but can't carry a concealed pistol on duty stateside.
But the good news is, guns aren't allowed on fed installations... so these things don't happen
Right?
Right?
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DC area? Must be David Gregory's magazine running amok.
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;/
You guys are so fond of pointing out how rights don't exist for servicemen, so 2A and gun free zone / victim disarmament zone arguments don't apply anyways.
:facepalm:
Never said I agree with disarming the military on a base stateside. At a minimum they should be allowed to follow state laws of concealed carry IMHO.
Of course the Navy Yard being inside DC they were *expletive deleted*ed either way.
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At last! The FBI has claimed jurisdiction and lead agency status. They are only 3/4 of a mile up the road, so wonder why it took so long to get over there and put on their big boy raid jackets.
The shooter was originally described as alive and in custody - he is now shot dead. I could make snarky comments but won't. Identity of shooter is confirmed as Aaron Alexis from Texas. No details on where in Texas (it's a small place, no?), his status as veteran or otherwise, or anything else. I am impressed at how quickly they got his fingerprints run and confirmed. I am also wondering about all those novels I have read.
Confirmed death toll is now up to 12, with no confirmation of number of wounded.
TV nooz is describing the entrance security procedures for scheduled visitors and unannounced visitors (such as to the Naval History Museum). They are ignoring how employees get onto the base and to the entrance to Bldg 197.
Can anybody explain wht "Vince Foster" and "Warren Commission" keep running through my head?
stay safe.
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At last! The FBI has claimed jurisdiction and lead agency status. They are only 3/4 of a mile up the road, so wonder why it took so long to get over there and put on their big boy raid jackets.
The shooter was originally described as alive and in custody - he is now shot dead. I could make snarky comments but won't. Identity of shooter is confirmed as Aaron Alexis from Texas. No details on where in Texas (it's a small place, no?), his status as veteran or otherwise, or anything else. I am impressed at how quickly they got his fingerprints run and confirmed. I am also wondering about all those novels I have read.
Confirmed death toll is now up to 12, with no confirmation of number of wounded.
TV nooz is describing the entrance security procedures for scheduled visitors and unannounced visitors (such as to the Naval History Museum). They are ignoring how employees get onto the base and to the entrance to Bldg 197.
Can anybody explain wht "Vince Foster" and "Warren Commission" keep running through my head?
stay safe.
Depends on how quickly they link him to "right wing" groups.....
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DANG IT
I was really looking forward to being able to buy some ammo/guns this fall.
Prayers/condolences to those affected.
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On the nooz I saw a shot of a good ole boy in blue jeans non-agency shirt and backwards ball cap loaded down with a leg rig an an A-2 style gun. If anyone sees a picture of him try and figure out what agency he was with, I'm curious
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If Obama had a son?
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpixel.nymag.com%2Fimgs%2Fdaily%2Fintelligencer%2F2013%2F09%2F16%2F16-aaron-alexis-mugshot.o.jpg%2Fa_190x190.jpg&hash=7fd180ddabc5df2a6a2b8776cf786f8ba344113d)
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2013/09/aaron-alexis-navy-yard-shooter.html
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Anyone catch that CBS and NBC had to do some fast retractions today when they gave the wrong name for the shooter?
An aside, when I did raid work, I didn't carry half the crap these guys seem to carry. Hell, I wonder how these guys can move with half of this. I saw one ATF agent with at least six handgun mags visible, and probably 6-8 AR mags. Plus all kinds of other assorted crap. Granted, I'm a firm believer in never having enough ammo, but I also like the option of being able to run when necessary.
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Anyone catch that CBS and NBC had to do some fast retractions today when they gave the wrong name for the shooter?
They did? I just assumed it was Richard Jewell.
So is it one perpetrator or three now? I can't keep up.
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Two black men. One that I linked the photo to, and one older, in his 40's or 50's, with grey sideburns.
Shades of the beltway snipers?
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To be fair, this is at a naval yard. .Mil base. There are armed MP's or whatever equivalent the Navy has, but it isn't a school, airport or mall as is typical of these things.
Whatever military or private (contractor) security they have, it wasn't enough. DC Police responded.
Base security at Fort Hood was civilian police. Dunno just what MPs/ShorePatrol do in regard to base security at U.S. bases these days.
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All of which means when the balloon goes up you are on your own until someone telegraphs to Ft. Apache, Rin Tin Tin and the cavalry saddles up, and they get there - but unlike the movies/TV, not in the nick of time.
As long as they don't send F Troop ...
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As long as they don't send F Troop ...
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/09/16/active-shooter-at-washington-navy-yard/ (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/09/16/active-shooter-at-washington-navy-yard/)
"More than 20 members of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) responded to the scene, including the same Special Response Team that extracted the alleged Boston Marathon bomber Dzhokhar Tsarnaev from the boat where he barricaded himself following the April 15 attack."
Realize you were likely referencing the comedy cavalry. Just found the coincidence interesting.
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Realize you were likely referencing the comedy cavalry. Just found the coincidence interesting.
Yeah, I was referring to the old television show. I forgot so many of you are probably not old enough to even catch the reference.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F_Troop
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2Fb%2Fbb%2FF_Troop_cast_1965.JPG%2F180px-F_Troop_cast_1965.JPG&hash=5d097aca08c59f7caee11b1f2bae3ead725f3fc5)
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Mr. Alexis was on active duty with the Navy from 2007 to 2011 and left the service as a PO3 aviation electrician, according to the NYT.
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If Obama had a son?
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpixel.nymag.com%2Fimgs%2Fdaily%2Fintelligencer%2F2013%2F09%2F16%2F16-aaron-alexis-mugshot.o.jpg%2Fa_190x190.jpg&hash=7fd180ddabc5df2a6a2b8776cf786f8ba344113d)
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2013/09/aaron-alexis-navy-yard-shooter.html
Would anybody like to explain how he morphed from his 2011 picture to his 9/16/2013 picture?
Heck, they just lightened Treyvon's face a bit, but at least kept the same basic shape, the same mouth,, the same eyes, the same .....
stay safe.
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Would anybody like to explain how he morphed from his 2011 picture to his 9/16/2013 picture?
Heck, they just lightened Treyvon's face a bit, but at least kept the same basic shape, the same mouth,, the same eyes, the same .....
stay safe.
Interesting. I had javascript disabled and didn't get the FBI bulletin you're mentioning.
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpixel.nymag.com%2Fimgs%2Fdaily%2Fintelligencer%2F2013%2F09%2F16%2F16-aaron-alexis-fbi-poster.o.jpg%2Fa_560x0.jpg&hash=e373e818437f8622808375cb8304e6d75d59a274)
Very different faces.
Part of it could be flash intensity and background color... but there's facial fat and structural differences in the cheekbones. More definition in the brow.
It still seems to be the same guy... I can sort of mentally transpose one pic on top of the other and they match in the right places, but the pics are so radically different in spite of that.
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Would anybody like to explain how he morphed from his 2011 picture to his 9/16/2013 picture?
Heck, they just lightened Treyvon's face a bit, but at least kept the same basic shape, the same mouth,, the same eyes, the same .....
stay safe.
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi650.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fuu228%2FSilentsAreGolden%2Fthats_racist.gif&hash=2d0463a089cbf34f7b0f6c79110a1f3665fbabb4) (http://media.photobucket.com/user/SilentsAreGolden/media/thats_racist.gif.html)
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Ironic, is it not, how the most reliable gun-free zones are military installations. I am sure others have made the same connection.
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So, any good intel on what sort of firearm the perp used? Just wonder what will be on the top of "must ban" list. Just in case it's not the AR-15 platform.
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Interesting. I had javascript disabled and didn't get the FBI bulletin you're mentioning.
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpixel.nymag.com%2Fimgs%2Fdaily%2Fintelligencer%2F2013%2F09%2F16%2F16-aaron-alexis-fbi-poster.o.jpg%2Fa_560x0.jpg&hash=e373e818437f8622808375cb8304e6d75d59a274)
Very different faces.
Part of it could be flash intensity and background color... but there's facial fat and structural differences in the cheekbones. More definition in the brow.
Flash intensity is vastly different. Brighter flash washes out a lot of depth and makes the face flatter. It also looks like the aspect ratios are different. Imagine watching regular TV on a HD set and then look again.
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So, any good intel on what sort of firearm the perp used? Just wonder what will be on the top of "must ban" list. Just in case it's not the AR-15 platform.
Nooz is reporting AR15 and handgun of some sort.
This whole thing is odd. How many black mass shooting perpetrators have there been in the last couple decades? Probably count that on one hand. Doesn't fit the bill.
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OH, and whichever mod moved this to RT....I'm moving it back to Politics. :-*
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OH, and whichever mod moved this to RT....I'm moving it back to Politics. :-*
MOD FIGHT!!!!!!!!
[popcorn]
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Nooz is reporting AR15 and handgun of some sort.
This whole thing is odd. How many black mass shooting perpetrators have there been in the last couple decades? Probably count that on one hand. Doesn't fit the bill.
Black = 13% of the population... so they can be a minority in mass shootings, too. They "should" commit about 1/8th of them. Wasn't Ft. Hood guy black also? Then there's the beltway guys.
As long as you can count all mass shootings in the last couple decades on your fingers and toes, fitting the black ones on one hand fits the strict demographic ratios. Now, including gangland mass shootings will skew that crime stat more towards blacks having more mass shootings, but it depends on if your targets in the mass shootings are middle class working folks, kids in schools, or people living in chicago ghettos.
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MOD FIGHT!!!!!!!!
[popcorn]
CRIPPLE FIGHT!
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To be fair, this is at a naval yard. .Mil base. There are armed MP's or whatever equivalent the Navy has, but it isn't a school, airport or mall as is typical of these things.
Ya mean like Ft. Hood?
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claiming 12 dead now.
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/09/16/20522196-at-least-12-killed-in-shooting-rampage-at-washington-navy-yard-chief-says?lite
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MOD FIGHT!!!!!!!!
[popcorn]
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kapelovitz.com%2Fimages%2Fbumfight1.jpg&hash=e082b26c4e45282136e6f4259af90379f7a09932)
(I didn't post that out-loud did I?)
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Nooz is reporting AR15 and handgun of some sort.
This whole thing is odd. How many black mass shooting perpetrators have there been in the last couple decades? Probably count that on one hand. Doesn't fit the bill.
Black perps account for roughly 2x as many mass and/or serial slayings as their population would indicate. A much smaller proportion relative to the run of the mill murders, where the ratio is much higher.
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The good news is that given the race of the perp, this will drop off the radar pretty quick.
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Nooz is reporting AR15 and handgun of some sort.
Wonder if he knew that AR was illegal to carry in DC? Handgun carry permit??? Oh, we're talking about criminals.....
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Has the media found a way to blame it on white, conservative right wingers yet?
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Nooz is reporting AR15 and handgun of some sort.
This whole thing is odd. How many black mass shooting perpetrators have there been in the last couple decades? Probably count that on one hand. Doesn't fit the bill.
News I saw said he had a shotgun, took the handgun of the guard, then may have taken additional weapons as we went.
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I just want to know where Gibbs was?
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Has the media found a way to blame it on white, conservative right wingers yet?
Be more worried about being lumped in with military veterans with 'issues' and access to guns.
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If Obama had a son?
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpixel.nymag.com%2Fimgs%2Fdaily%2Fintelligencer%2F2013%2F09%2F16%2F16-aaron-alexis-mugshot.o.jpg%2Fa_190x190.jpg&hash=7fd180ddabc5df2a6a2b8776cf786f8ba344113d)
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2013/09/aaron-alexis-navy-yard-shooter.html
I'm not surprised you beat me to it. It had to come up.
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News I saw said he had a shotgun, took the handgun of the guard, then may have taken additional weapons as we went.
Fox News said he had an "AR-15 Shotgun". I'm sure he had an AR-15 something even if it was AR-15 shoelaces.
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Fox News said he had an "AR-15 Shotgun". I'm sure he had an AR-15 something even if it was AR-15 shoelaces.
Possible ...
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.gunsamerica.com%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F01%2F19191.jpg&hash=3adff8b3f6b9b53a2fba6e33d17cea75f684f2a8)
http://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/ar-15-style-shotgun-raac-akdal-mka-1919/
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We should have listened to Sarah Silverman when she told us not to give guns to black men.
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2013/09/robert-farago/sarah-silverman-never-truer-word-spoken-jest/
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I saw this on Calguns but have not yet been able to confirm it. Story, with quotes from NBC, says he started with a shotgun he purchased several weeks before, and got the pistol and AR on base.
http://bearingarms.com/nbc-washington-navy-yard-shooting-suspect-took-assault-rifle-pistol-from-cops-he-ambushed/
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I saw this on Calguns but have not yet been able to confirm it. Story, with quotes from NBC, says he started with a shotgun he purchased several weeks before, and got the pistol and AR on base.
http://bearingarms.com/nbc-washington-navy-yard-shooting-suspect-took-assault-rifle-pistol-from-cops-he-ambushed/
He was just using a shotgun like biden said to use. :P
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I saw this on Calguns but have not yet been able to confirm it. Story, with quotes from NBC, says he started with a shotgun he purchased several weeks before, and got the pistol and AR on base.
http://bearingarms.com/nbc-washington-navy-yard-shooting-suspect-took-assault-rifle-pistol-from-cops-he-ambushed/
That was reported in wapo as well
damn phone
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WUSA reporting he may have been a 9/11 first responder with PTSD
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now they are speculating that there was no rifle. he started with a shotgun, and stole 2 pistols. (no story here, move along.....)
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At least they were able to rule out any kind of terrorism in less than an hour.
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Yesterday reminded me of 14 December, last year. In that I had to switch off the talk radio, to avoid all the pointless speculation from people with no solid facts. ;/
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Saw a survivor of the shooting being interviewed - he said that he could carry a gun, but MILITARY REGULATIONS ON BASE HAD DISARMED HIM. Didn't see the entire interview, but enough to see him assert that he could have stopped the perp sooner, but was unable to because he'd been disarmed. (Sounds a lot like Suzanna Hupp's experience with the Luby's mass shooting some years back.)
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Saw a survivor of the shooting being interviewed - he said that he could carry a gun, but MILITARY REGULATIONS ON BASE HAD DISARMED HIM. Didn't see the entire interview, but enough to see him assert that he could have stopped the perp sooner, but was unable to because he'd been disarmed. (Sounds a lot like Suzanna Hupp's experience with the Luby's mass shooting some years back.)
That interview will get buried quick.
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Saw a survivor of the shooting being interviewed - he said that he could carry a gun, but MILITARY REGULATIONS ON BASE HAD DISARMED HIM. Didn't see the entire interview, but enough to see him assert that he could have stopped the perp sooner, but was unable to because he'd been disarmed. (Sounds a lot like Suzanna Hupp's experience with the Luby's mass shooting some years back.)
where did you see this? is there a name/link available?
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It's possible he didn't use a rifle at all. From CNN.COM: (http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/17/us/navy-yard-shooting-main/)
Authorities have recovered three weapons from the scene of the mass shooting, including a shotgun that investigators believe Alexis brought into the compound, federal law enforcement sources with detailed knowledge of the investigation told CNN on Tuesday. The other two weapons -- handguns -- may have been taken from guards, the sources say.
Earlier information that Alexis may have used a semiautomatic AR-15 rifle may have been incorrect, the sources said.
Investigators believe Alexis rented an AR-15 but had returned it before Monday's shootings, the sources said. Authorities are still investigating how many weapons Aaron had access to, the sources said.
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Wrong race, wrong weapon(s).
News cycle peters out on this in 2-3 days tops.
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Wrong race, wrong weapon(s).
News cycle peters out on this in 2-3 days tops.
Yup.
Any word on if there were multiple shooters, or was that a misreport in the initial rush to be wrong first?
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Yup.
Any word on if there were multiple shooters, or was that a misreport in the initial rush to be wrong first?
I don't think it was a misreport. More a matter of 1/2 the various alphabet soup agencies being thorough based on initial confused witness reports, and 1/2 just typical bureaucratic CYA in the .0001% chance there was a second shooter, they dismissed it, and he popped up again and did more damage etc. So "officially
I can be sympathetic for being a bit on the "better safe than sorry"-side of things in these instances. If there ever were multiple shooters who got ignored/dismissed the various LEA's would have their asses in slings, both officially and in the MSM.
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He rented an AR, but returned it? Am I just way out of the loop here? Are there places renting guns outside the confines of a shooting range? ???
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He rented an AR, but returned it? Am I just way out of the loop here? Are there places renting guns outside the confines of a shooting range? ???
Probably typical MSM confusion/ignorance.
I'm guessing he bought an AR, had buyer's remorse for whatever reasons, then sold it back to the shop at a loss etc.
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There is nowhere in this area that I'm aware of that would rent an AR. The nearest place I can think of that rents guns at all is Blue Ridge in Chantilly, and I don't think they rent anything but handguns. Plus, you're not supposed to leave the range with the weapon.
Not sure about DC or MD though.
Chris
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And now we're slamming the barn door after all the animals have gotten out.
http://www2.smartbrief.com/servlet/encodeServlet?issueid=97B312C4-747C-460F-A80A-83105B034053&sid=2d4a7936-cbbd-4363-9633-6433befc450c (http://www2.smartbrief.com/servlet/encodeServlet?issueid=97B312C4-747C-460F-A80A-83105B034053&sid=2d4a7936-cbbd-4363-9633-6433befc450c)
And yes wrong race, wrong gun (A Biden Special). Only way this gets used is the "PTSD" angle. Dude was an electronics tech in the Navy. Not a trigger puller, but pretty much the Navy's version of Geek Squad.
Background will be interesting. I heard a Doc at one of the hospitals yesterday quoted as saying "These wounds are consistent with the use of automatic rifle." Really, *BBBZZZZZTTTTT* WRONG!!! Go turn in your stethoscope and find a new line of work.
And I never heard of a range that will either rent or loan guns that let you take them off premise. But gunnies have been known to do really stupid things.
Also keep in mind that reporters have 1) No farking clue about guns, 2) No idea what happened during this event, 3) No clue whatsoever about anything.
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Apparently he rented a rifle at "SharpShooters Small Arms Range and gun shop in Lorton." According to the owner as quoted here (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/liveblog-live/liveblog/shooting-at-washington-navy-yard/?id=5fcc04d6-f311-47ed-b84d-9d002af14fc0).
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My question was mostly rhetorical. I find it hilarious that they would talk about renting a gun as if it were like renting a Buick, but I must admit the slim chance that such a thing could be.
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My question was mostly rhetorical. I find it hilarious that they would talk about renting a gun as if it were like renting a Buick, but I must admit the slim chance that such a thing could be.
Almost every gun store that rents guns gets a "Whaddya mean I gotta use it here?" at least once in their lifetime.
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Almost every gun store that rents guns gets a "Whaddya mean I gotta use it here?" at least once in their lifetime.
:rofl: Sounds like something John Kerry would have done, for his 2004 hunting trip.
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For some odd reason I'm terribly skeptical about anything reported by the MSM and this administration regarding any of this.
Dude was an electronics tech in the Navy. Not a trigger pulled, but pretty much the Navy's version of Geek Squad.
Some of us were at least qual'd with small arms for reaction forces and were "armed" for certain watches.
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Some of us were at least qual'd with small arms for reaction forces and were "armed" for certain watches.
True, but I'd say it was highly unlikely he was caught in a firefight or ambush or any other action. (Unless he was Bob on the FOB and his FOB got mortared. Again low probability.)
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I thought his ptsd was 9/11 cleanup related.
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They didn't just say he rented, he also returned it before the shooting. But I'm going to assume that the media is just stupid and that they actually meant that he had rented it to try out at the range.
I'll be slightly surprised if the antis don't spin it to try new bans on shotguns by saying they are better for killing inside or some such and that's why he didn't rent one for the shooting spree. :facepalm:
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How bout just a ban on renting?
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The NYT is reporting that he did not purchase the rifle because state law prohibits the sale of such to out-of-state residents.
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Wrong race, wrong weapon(s).
News cycle peters out on this in 2-3 days tops.
Another lefty gone feral:
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/09/17/Navy-Yard-Shooter-friend-Describes%20Alexis-as-liberal-Obama-fan
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Saw a survivor of the shooting being interviewed - he said that he could carry a gun, but MILITARY REGULATIONS ON BASE HAD DISARMED HIM. Didn't see the entire interview, but enough to see him assert that he could have stopped the perp sooner, but was unable to because he'd been disarmed. (Sounds a lot like Suzanna Hupp's experience with the Luby's mass shooting some years back.)
Another one:
http://cnsnews.com/mrctv-blog/matt-vespa/if-we-had-ammunition-we-could-ve-cleared-building-son-navy-yard-told-dad
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The NYT is reporting that he did not purchase the rifle because state law prohibits the sale of such to out-of-state residents.
That very well may be, but:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/sep/17/miller-new-york-times-gets-it-wrong-about-navy-yar/
MSNBC imagines him with a 203. :facepalm:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qs35NnT6lZk&feature=player_embedded
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Heard how the AR-15 Assault Rifle was so accurate that a noob, "with little to no training, could put all the bullets from the magazine in a 2" circle at 100 yards".
Also heard how he'd killed those poor folks with an AR-15 Assault Rifle, but was taken down with a high-powered rifle. This kind of word game really pisses me off.
To say I'm happy watching all those damn fools being proven wrong is an understatement.
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Watching HLN, and their expert specified it was an 870 "much like the one I own." When asked by Robin Mead, he clarified that there was no assault weapon used, and the handguns were taken from security officers.
Trying to put a ban on shotguns would be a fool's move. One of the top shows on TV...Duck Dynasty...featuresbthe sporting use of shotguns in every episode. Biden is on recors recommending shotguns for defense. Every farmer in the country has a shotgun standing by. They may bring it up, but it would bring on a firestorm in return.
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Trying to put a ban on shotguns would be a fool's move. One of the top shows on TV...Duck Dynasty...featuresbthe sporting use of shotguns in every episode. Biden is on recors recommending shotguns for defense. Every farmer in the country has a shotgun standing by. They may bring it up, but it would bring on a firestorm in return.
Which is why I sort of hope they do suggest just that...
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Another lefty gone feral:
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/09/17/Navy-Yard-Shooter-friend-Describes%20Alexis-as-liberal-Obama-fan
The whole story will vanish quickly.
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Which is why I sort of hope they do suggest just that...
I really wish they would too. They won't. I predict they'll bring up "assault weapons" and/or magazine capacities again, and "enhanced" universal background checks. They'll drop the former to look politically reasonable and push the latter.
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I really wish they would too. They won't. I predict they'll bring up "assault weapons" and/or magazine capacities again, and "enhanced" universal background checks. They'll drop the former to look politically reasonable and push the latter.
Yep the old bait and switch trick...and anybody opposing it will be a right wing extremist.
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It's nice to know there's at least one person at CNN that has an inkling of a clue:
http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/17/opinion/granderson-gun-control-fail/index.html?hpt=hp_t2 (http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/17/opinion/granderson-gun-control-fail/index.html?hpt=hp_t2)
The folks spraying our cities with bullets are not NRA members or even legal gun owners.
. . . ridding the country of guns is a hopeless -- and unconstitutional mission -- and that the real goal should be addressing the factors that lead to the various forms of gun violence . . .[/unqoute]
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. . . ridding the country of guns is a hopeless -- and unconstitutional mission -- and that the real goal should be addressing the factors that lead to the various forms of gun violence . . .[/unqoute]
Well intentioned, but still focused on pre-crime.
The common key element to all this stuff is the Victim Disarmament Zone, whether it's school children, or soldiers.
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It's nice to know there's at least one person at CNN that has an inkling of a clue:
http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/17/opinion/granderson-gun-control-fail/index.html?hpt=hp_t2 (http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/17/opinion/granderson-gun-control-fail/index.html?hpt=hp_t2)
. . . ridding the country of guns is a hopeless -- and unconstitutional mission -- and that the real goal should be addressing the factors that lead to the various forms of gun violence . . .[/qoute]
In the comments section, "James" makes my head hurt.
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RANT/
The guy two offices down from me just walked into my office asking if I'd heard about that crazy guy in DC with the AR15 and the shotgun. I informed him there was no AR and that the guy only had an 870. He responded to me that the news said he had the AR and that the shotgun he used had some special short barrel to make it more lethal, but he couldn't understand how he could kill someone with birdshot from four floors up, so he must have had an AR. This coworker bird hunts more than I do and uses some old Ithaca pump with a 24 inch barrel. When I explained the concept of using buckshot. he looked like the hamsters on his brain treadmill were on speed. He didn't believe me when I said the shooter used the shotgun to take the pistols of onsite security. I'm shutting my door for the rest of the day.
/RANT
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Well intentioned, but still focused on pre-crime.
The common key element to all this stuff is the Victim Disarmament Zone, whether it's school children, or soldiers.
Pretty much this. The disaffected people who do this are usually trying to get one last hurrah of power, dominance, and control in a life they've felt to be weak and powerless. Just adding in the possibility of uncertainty that some random intended victim will shoot back ruins it for them. They don't want to fail at what they feel is one last chance at some sort of success to cap off their life with.
Of course there are police and armed guards, however, they can be reduced by the shooter mentally as "known quantities" i.e., the guardpost or uniform which allows for a "shoot me first" protocol which makes the potentially more even conflict there bearable because they as the initiator have the advantage of surprise etc.
Introduce that level of uncertainty everywhere, and while I'm sure not all will abandon their plans for spree shootings, a great deal of them will just decide to kill themselves alone instead.
RANT/
The guy two offices down from me just walked into my office asking if I'd heard about that crazy guy in DC with the AR15 and the shotgun. I informed him there was no AR and that the guy only had an 870. He responded to me that the news said he had the AR and that the shotgun he used had some special short barrel to make it more lethal, but he couldn't understand how he could kill someone with birdshot from four floors up, so he must have had an AR. This coworker bird hunts more than I do and uses some old Ithaca pump with a 24 inch barrel. When I explained the concept of using buckshot. he looked like the hamsters on his brain treadmill were on speed. He didn't believe me when I said the shooter used the shotgun to take the pistols of onsite security. I'm shutting my door for the rest of the day.
/RANT
I'd needle that guy mercilessly. About how "Riot shotguns should be restricted because of how they can shoot indiscriminately in a spread, and how most people don't know they have a BORE EVEN BIGGER THAN FIFTY CALIBER!" etc. =D
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The whole disarmament thing on .mil bases cracks me up, in a very depressing way.
Seems that a pair of loser bank robbers could completely take over an army base. A typical urban Police station has more readily deployable firepower, at what appears to be about 2-3 orders of magnitude. Bumbleskank, Arkansas city hall has about twice the firepower.
Those 19 AQ pilots who hijacked planes could have instead taken over about 4-5 bases in the continental US, instead.
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The whole disarmament thing on .mil bases cracks me up, in a very depressing way.
Seems that a pair of loser bank robbers could completely take over an army base. A typical urban Police station has more readily deployable firepower, at what appears to be about 2-3 orders of magnitude. Bumbleskank, Arkansas city hall has about twice the firepower.
Those 19 AQ pilots who hijacked planes could have instead taken over about 4-5 bases in the continental US, instead.
Trust me, you are not the only person thinks it is absurd
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That very well may be, but:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/sep/17/miller-new-york-times-gets-it-wrong-about-navy-yar/
MSNBC imagines him with a 203. :facepalm:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qs35NnT6lZk&feature=player_embedded
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_162-57603416/aaron-alexis-tried-to-buy-assault-rifle-but-was-unable-to/
CBS is reporting much the same thing. I wonder what the accurate answer is.
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http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_162-57603416/aaron-alexis-tried-to-buy-assault-rifle-but-was-unable-to/
CBS is reporting much the same thing. I wonder what the accurate answer is.
I would say Emily Miller is right.
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Not to take away from this dark event, but when do the libel lawsuits from Colt and Magpul get filed?
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fassets.nydailynews.com%2Fpolopoly_fs%2F1.1458149.1379398553%21%2Fimg%2FhttpImage%2Fimage.jpg_gen%2Fderivatives%2Flandscape_635%2Ffront917.jpg&hash=a05dcdf1bea423541384b210258934f62db6d44c)
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Not to take away from this dark event, but when do the libel lawsuits from Colt and Magpul get filed?
http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1458149.1379398553!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_635/front917.jpg
And bushmaster/BCM/DPMS/RRA/American Spirit/C-products/Del-ton/Armalite/et alia.
Class action suit with $5000 damages per manufacturer would ruin this paper. There must be a hundred companies or more that make AR's and AR products.
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I would say Emily Miller is right.
I don't know. Miller claims he went on his spree with only 30 shells purchased locally. Everyone knows it takes a thousand rounds purchased online.
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The whole disarmament thing on .mil bases cracks me up, in a very depressing way.
Seems that a pair of loser bank robbers could completely take over an army base. A typical urban Police station has more readily deployable firepower, at what appears to be about 2-3 orders of magnitude. Bumbleskank, Arkansas city hall has about twice the firepower.
Those 19 AQ pilots who hijacked planes could have instead taken over about 4-5 bases in the continental US, instead.
Of course I am not, and never was .mil, but it's clear even to me that the culture is such that for the XO, even one ND/AD by anyone under their command will mess up his or her career, while an active shooter tragedy will arguably be a "leadership opportunity" with all sorts of meetings, additional budget, promotion even.
It won't change until Generals/Admirals are made responsible for preventing, repelling, or minimizing these attacks, rather than being lumped in with the "victims".
And bushmaster/BCM/DPMS/RRA/American Spirit/C-products/Del-ton/Armalite/et alia.
Class action suit with $5000 damages per manufacturer would ruin this paper. There must be a hundred companies or more that make AR's and AR products.
I for one would throw $25 into the kitty for such a legal fund to support such a lawsuit. They could go under the NSSF collectively. It would probably get tossed, libel/slander being a rather high standard of evidence to prove, and rightfully so, but such a shot across the bow might cool the ardor of the accomplice MSM to run with anti-gun hit pieces so willy-nilly.
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Last time I bothered to look into it, there was a part of basic training where they made recruits take their weapon with them everywhere - albeit unloaded and with no (official) access to any kind of ammo. The goal was to both demystify the item and get them so used to at least having it around that they would literally feel uncomfortable without it - much like many folks and their smart phone. I'll let our resident former, ex-Drill Sergeant explain this better.
Just like we say we let our children look and and handle our guns whenever they ask to, so there will not be a mystique calling to them to get hold of them and fiddlefinger them when we are not around.
Why do cops not go around pointing their guns at each other, and drive over to other police stations to point their guns at the cops there? Could part of it be related that all the mystique was wrung out of them by having to clean and carry them all the time? The 3 years between military and cop rookie ages accounts for some levels of maturation, but I'm not convinced that maturity based merely by being 3 years older is the explanation of why cops do not horseplay and shoot eachother. (Well, there is also the odd possibility of being able to bust a cap in some citizen. [tinfoil])
stay safe.
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Heck, skid: If they want control over the privates 24/7/365, so be it.
How about everyone from sergeant to general carries an M9 all the time, at least?
Or if they're gonna fuss over the "weight" of an M9 ;/, start a bid for a new 100%-all-the-time pistol to be carried by the officer corps when not otherwise assigned to an active front. Sub 16 ounces, single stack 9mm. Same general manual of arms as the M9 just to keep things simple (slide safety selector and decocker, DA/SA). A slightly overgrown Walther.
A few hundred people carrying one of those on base can put a quick stop to the lone whacko shooter.
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Give guns to officers?! :O. No, no, no, no, no, no.
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The whole disarmament thing on .mil bases cracks me up, in a very depressing way.
Seems that a pair of loser bank robbers could completely take over an army base. A typical urban Police station has more readily deployable firepower, at what appears to be about 2-3 orders of magnitude. Bumbleskank, Arkansas city hall has about twice the firepower.
Those 19 AQ pilots who hijacked planes could have instead taken over about 4-5 bases in the continental US, instead.
Send out an infantry unit with full arms, commo, night vision, & such gear into the NE Georgia mountains and you, too, can see the dawning of realization on your CO's and XO's face when you tell them that a few hillbillies with 100 year old long guns and more rounds in their pockets than teeth in their skulls could take it all away.
Next time, I got my operational ammo, thanks.
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And bushmaster/BCM/DPMS/RRA/American Spirit/C-products/Del-ton/Armalite/et alia.
Class action suit with $5000 damages per manufacturer would ruin this paper. There must be a hundred companies or more that make AR's and AR products.
I only proposed those two to start with because that's a Colt AR-15 with Magpul furniture.
Oh, and just to point something out.... that picture of the "wounded being treated" was a guy who had a heart attack 6 blocks away, not one of the victims in the shooting.
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Last time I bothered to look into it, there was a part of basic training where they made recruits take their weapon with them everywhere - albeit unloaded and with no (official) access to any kind of ammo. The goal was to both demystify the item and get them so used to at least having it around that they would literally feel uncomfortable without it - much like many folks and their smart phone. I'll let our resident former, ex-Drill Sergeant explain this better.
Just like we say we let our children look and and handle our guns whenever they ask to, so there will not be a mystique calling to them to get hold of them and fiddlefinger them when we are not around.
Why do cops not go around pointing their guns at each other, and drive over to other police stations to point their guns at the cops there? Could part of it be related that all the mystique was wrung out of them by having to clean and carry them all the time? The 3 years between military and cop rookie ages accounts for some levels of maturation, but I'm not convinced that maturity based merely by being 3 years older is the explanation of why cops do not horseplay and shoot eachother. (Well, there is also the odd possibility of being able to bust a cap in some citizen. [tinfoil])
stay safe.
Weapons immersion. ALL 9 weeks of basic training.
Unless you're in church, you have your weapon.
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Send out an infantry unit with full arms, commo, night vision, & such gear into the NE Georgia mountains and you, too, can see the dawning of realization on your CO's and XO's face when you tell them that a few hillbillies with 100 year old long guns and more rounds in their pockets than teeth in their skulls could take it all away.
Next time, I got my operational ammo, thanks.
I always figured it was urban legend, but I heard stories back in my Army days about this. We're out there without even blanks for most field problems. Some folks show up loaded guns and steal all of our guns.
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Heck, skid: If they want control over the privates 24/7/365, so be it.
How about everyone from sergeant to general carries an M9 all the time, at least?
Or if they're gonna fuss over the "weight" of an M9 ;/, start a bid for a new 100%-all-the-time pistol to be carried by the officer corps when not otherwise assigned to an active front. Sub 16 ounces, single stack 9mm. Same general manual of arms as the M9 just to keep things simple (slide safety selector and decocker, DA/SA). A slightly overgrown Walther.
A few hundred people carrying one of those on base can put a quick stop to the lone whacko shooter.
I have long advocated for issuance / carry of weapons on base for leadership at a minimum.
Even if you restricted it to E-6 and above and CPT and above, that's a hell of a lot of armed folks on a .mil base.
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I always figured it was urban legend, but I heard stories back in my Army days about this. We're out there without even blanks for most field problems. Some folks show up loaded guns and steal all of our guns.
It's still dumb, but those that have the idea "Come SHTF, I'll just get what I need from the .mil" is now just a little bit less dumb.
The IDF seems to have this under control, everyone has ammo, in magazines, ON the weapon somewhere, just not IN. And they have some of the compulsory service/conscription lowest common denominator issues to deal with, vs. the supposedly higher qualities of an all volunteer force.
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No libel suit. They should pay commision to the paper. Everyone will want one "before the ban"!!
damn phone
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I have long advocated for issuance / carry of weapons on base for leadership at a minimum.
Even if you restricted it to E-6 and above and CPT and above, that's a hell of a lot of armed folks on a .mil base.
The Army only lets Muslim Majors carry on base... Oh, wait.... :facepalm:
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Not to take away from this dark event, but when do the libel lawsuits from Colt and Magpul get filed?
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fassets.nydailynews.com%2Fpolopoly_fs%2F1.1458149.1379398553%21%2Fimg%2FhttpImage%2Fimage.jpg_gen%2Fderivatives%2Flandscape_635%2Ffront917.jpg&hash=a05dcdf1bea423541384b210258934f62db6d44c)
So when will they be publishing the retraction? /cynical laugh
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I have long advocated for issuance / carry of weapons on base for leadership at a minimum.
Even if you restricted it to E-6 and above and CPT and above, that's a hell of a lot of armed folks on a .mil base.
Didn't they issue the 1903 hammerless in .380 to general officers? It looked just a bit less funny than the tin swords European generals carried around, and is more powerful than (in decending order of powerfullness) harsh words or the .25acp Baby Growning.
stay safe.
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Oh, and just to point something out.... that picture of the "wounded being treated" was a guy who had a heart attack 6 blocks away, not one of the victims in the shooting.
Source?
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Send out an infantry unit with full arms, commo, night vision, & such gear into the NE Georgia mountains and you, too, can see the dawning of realization on your CO's and XO's face when you tell them that a few hillbillies with 100 year old long guns and more rounds in their pockets than teeth in their skulls could take it all away.
Next time, I got my operational ammo, thanks.
Friend of mine served in Korea. (This was long after the Korean War.) One night they had an alert, everyone had to grab guns, helments, etc. and report to their duty stations, prepared to defend against an attack. NO AMMO WAS AVAILABLE. The ammo bunkers were locked up, and nobody knew who had the keys; they were out there effectively unarmed for over an hour before word came through that it was a false alarm. But a troop of North Korean boy scouts could have simply walked over the base.
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As opposed to one of the nights during my 3-day visit to Gitmo. Full alert, with us facing the Cubans who either started it or were responding to us going on alert (never did find out and really did not care). Being a visitor and therefore essentially lost and totally useless, I was put to work passing ammo crates from a bunker onto motorized mules (M274). I asked why we were loading up ammo instead of it being on the line and was told this was for when the grunts on the fences low.
Maybe somebody knew something?
stay safe.
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As opposed to one of the nights during my 3-day visit to Gitmo. Full alert, with us facing the Cubans who either started it or were responding to us going on alert (never did find out and really did not care). Being a visitor and therefore essentially lost and totally useless, I was put to work passing ammo crates from a bunker onto motorized mules (M274). I asked why we were loading up ammo instead of it being on the line and was told this was for when the grunts on the fences low.
Maybe somebody knew something?
stay safe.
Isn't Gitmo a Marine base, and the Korean DMZ an Army base? Different policies?
Gitmo is also a prison. Korean DMZ is not.
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Source?
Source? Ain't nobody got time fo dat!
Well, other than some friends who work down there who told me, I suppose there's this: http://petapixel.com/2013/09/18/viral-photos-navy-yard-tragedy-dont-show-shooting-victim/ (http://petapixel.com/2013/09/18/viral-photos-navy-yard-tragedy-dont-show-shooting-victim/)
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Isn't Gitmo a Marine base, and the Korean DMZ an Army base? Different policies?
Gitmo is also a prison. Korean DMZ is not.
Yes, Gitmo is Marine. And no, it was not a prison in 1967.
The sound of T-34s (or whatever flavor of Russkie tank it was) grinding up to their side of the wire at Oh-my-effing-Gawd-what-time-is-it in the early part of the morning will forever remain in my mind as perhaps the most effective alarm clock of all time. We had one tank for every one of theirs and if theyu fired simultaneously I'm sure the shells would have met in the middle of no-man's land and falled harmlessly among the landmines, just like in the cartoons.
Some of the folks I know who served around the Fulda Gap also knew that feeling of puckering going from zero to 12.
stay safe.
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Couple of things. In Germany when we had "Lariat Advances"* every unit kept a portion (1-3 days, IIRC) of their basic load in their arms rooms fro when we practiced rolling to the border. Tanks had a full combat load on them in the motorpools, that's why Armor battalion Motor Pool guards were issued three live rounds.
Sidearms and ammo to each E-? and above. As long you DO NOT have to draw them in the morning and turn them in each evening, fine. Otherwise the CQ (and a runner, two man rule in the arms room) will simply be permanent armorer after say 4pm. Also, not many units have "Sidearm, one each" on their MTOE for most enlisted. Pretty much every "E" up to E-8 in the Army has M4/M16/M203/M240/M2 as their personal weapon. Only 11C's (Mortarman), 31B (Military Police), and 56M (Chaplin's Assistant) have sidearms as their issue weapons. There might be a couple of others, but not many.
And yes, weapons immersion works. The ONLY AD we had in my MP company in 4 years I was there, an E-7 PSG. The E-1's through 6's did weapon draw turn-in 3x per day. They were used to drawing, loading and unloading their sidearms. The SFC, not so much. Maybe only when he did MPDO, and even then, some/most did not draw their weapons (Stupid, but I digress). He had to because we were so short NCO"s that we had to us Platoon Sergeants as Shift Supervisors. Having not done it much, at the end of his shift he killed the clearing barrel. Not once, but twice. Yeah, that stirred up a stit shorm. The USAREUR, Corps and Division PM all got their panties in a knot. It would have been less bad had he shot someone.
Some hurdles, but could be done.
But keep in mind, not many people in the Army/military are gun people.
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Soooo... I guess without an EBR involved, and the wrong demographic for both the shooter and his victims, this story has pretty much fallen off the MSM radar. I saw one blurb way down the page on the Fox News site about how this guy and Snowden were vetted by the same company. I'm pretty sure both Sandy Hook and Aurora were still front page news this far past each of those incidents.
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Send out an infantry unit with full arms, commo, night vision, & such gear into the NE Georgia mountains and you, too, can see the dawning of realization on your CO's and XO's face when you tell them that a few hillbillies with 100 year old long guns and more rounds in their pockets than teeth in their skulls could take it all away.
Next time, I got my operational ammo, thanks.
There was an '80s movie about a NG group in the field...without ammo.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Comfort_%281981_film%29
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/24153252
A DC Metro CERT (SWAT) team was blocks away from the naval base when Alexis started shooting. They were requested to intervene by officers on scene, and ordered to stand down by superiors.
No one knows why.
Multiple sources in the Capitol Police department have told the BBC that its highly trained and heavily armed four-man Containment and Emergency Response Team (Cert) was near the Navy Yard when the initial report of an active shooter came in about 8:20 local time.
The officers, wearing full tactical gear and armed with HK-416 assault weapons, arrived outside Building 197 a few minutes later, an official with knowledge of the incident told the BBC.
According to a Capitol Police source, an officer with the Metropolitan Police Department (MPD), Washington DC's main municipal force, told the Capitol Cert officers they were the only police on the site equipped with long guns and requested their help stopping the gunman.
When the Capitol Police team radioed their superiors, they were told by a watch commander to leave the scene, the BBC was told.
The gunman, Aaron Alexis, was reported killed after 09:00.
That's 40 minutes of free rein of the facility, when it could have only been 10-15 minutes.
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My only commentary on weapons immersion is that it seems to breed a culture expecting empty guns; so without some "Get off my lawn!" type like Fitz wandering around muzzle discipline goes out window. Give them all ammo.
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Soooo... I guess without an EBR involved, and the wrong demographic for both the shooter and his victims, this story has pretty much fallen off the MSM radar. I saw one blurb way down the page on the Fox News site about how this guy and Snowden were vetted by the same company. I'm pretty sure both Sandy Hook and Aurora were still front page news this far past each of those incidents.
Probably got more coverage than this one will ever get.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-multiple-people-including-3yearold-shot-in-south-side-attack-20130919,0,352520.story
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/24153252
A DC Metro CERT (SWAT) team was blocks away from the naval base when Alexis started shooting. They were requested to intervene by officers on scene, and ordered to stand down by superiors.
No one knows why.
That's 40 minutes of free rein of the facility, when it could have only been 10-15 minutes.
Fog of war, and probably some confusion on who's responsible for handling the Navy Yard.
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Fog of war, and probably some confusion on who's responsible for handling the Navy Yard.
This is D.C., after all. If you'd expect a bureaucratic/jurisdictional turf war anywhere...
So glad all that post 9/11 inter-agency cooperation is on track.
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My only commentary on weapons immersion is that it seems to breed a culture expecting empty guns; so without some "Get off my lawn!" type like Fitz wandering around muzzle discipline goes out window. Give them all ammo.
My troops had no ammo usually. muzzle discipline was good. Probably because we destroyed anyone who violated.
We could do that.
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/24153252
A DC Metro CERT (SWAT) team was blocks away from the naval base when Alexis started shooting. They were requested to intervene by officers on scene, and ordered to stand down by superiors.
No one knows why.
That's 40 minutes of free rein of the facility, when it could have only been 10-15 minutes.
When seconds count, SWAT will be advised to stand down.
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When seconds count, SWAT will be advised to stand down.
It worked so well in Benghazi.
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This is D.C., after all. If you'd expect a bureaucratic/jurisdictional turf war anywhere...
So glad all that post 9/11 inter-agency cooperation is on track.
Especially in DC, this has been a long-standing issue. Back in the 70s I witnessed a fistfight between 5 different LEA over who had jurisdiction over a traffic accident involving a pedestrian struck by an automobile that jumped the curb on the south side of Constitution Ave NW between D & E Streets. Yes, the automobile crosed the geographical jurisdiction of 4 of those agencies but it struck the pedestrian in the geographical jurisdiction of only the 5th agency. BTW - the pedestrian was hit less than 30 feet from the curb!
London cabbies get quizzed about how to get from Point A to Point B before they are licensed. It takes about 3 years of study. DC cops learn the limits of their jurisdiction (for the purpose of preventing any other of the 20+ LEA operating there from poaching) in less than a day.
If you want to talk about strange goings-on, how about we talk about the DC Metro Police acting as the lead agency for most of the morning? Except for directing traffic on the streets, they had no official jurisdiction. And if you really want to explode your head, figure out which agency's emergency vehicle has the right of way getting through the maze of flashing colored lights that were there. (Hint - if a mail truck had driven down M Street it would have had the right of way over every other vehicle there!)
stay safe.