Author Topic: To tacktickle-ize or not to tacktickle-ize?  (Read 5291 times)

AZRedhawk44

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To tacktickle-ize or not to tacktickle-ize?
« on: March 31, 2009, 10:52:45 PM »
That is the question!
Whether tis nobler in the mind to leave well enough alone
My Camp 45 ensnared within its oppressive wooden stock;
Or to purchase a Choate side-folder,
and by thus acting, make more tactical!  To fold, to pack;
To apply new use; And by fold I mean to say
To be able to stow inside of a duffle or backpack
for emergency use - 'tis an application
Devoutly to be wish'd.  To buy, to try;
To try, perchance to dislike.  Ay, there's the rub,
for in that trial what revelations may come,
When we have shuffled off that wooden stock,
Must give us pause.  There's the benefit
of having a sturdy stock and its cheek weld,
For who would bear shoddy marksmanship in this day and time,
Unable to combat th'oppressor's wrong, the proud man's hubris,
The heartache of AWB, just law's delay,
The abuse of office, and the spurns
That patient merit of the liberal takes,
When rifle itself miight peace create
With sturdy stock which Riflemen bear,
To shoot and miss as a weary shot,
Missing and fearing the unconsumated result
of that ill fated missile for whom significant skill
was applied, confounds the purposes of freedom
and makes us doubt our skills and resolve
rather than face our enemies?
Thus conscience does bid me to implore APS,
and the heady pace of action
is halted by the spectre of uncertainty,
And enterprises of great merit and significance
Thusly are turned to inaction,
Significance waning as doubt is perceived.

 =D

Translation:  Should I get a Choate side folder for my Camp 45?  Be cool to be able to stow a carbine in a duffle of some sort... but I lose a good cheek weld if I do that.  It's equipped now with a red dot and is in the standard wooden stock these things shipped with when new.  Shoots well to about 150 with a bit of kentucky windage, so it's not a long range gun.
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roo_ster

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Re: To tacktickle-ize or not to tacktickle-ize?
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2009, 10:56:30 PM »
If you can jury-rig a decent cheek-weld with some other device or the judicious use of 100MPH tape & closed-cell foam, get the folding stock.

Carbines are supposed to be handy, and fitting them in a smaller package is handier, thus making the carbine, carbinier.
Regards,

roo_ster

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Harold Tuttle

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Re: To tacktickle-ize or not to tacktickle-ize?
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2009, 11:07:08 PM »
i covet thine Camp 45

my alternative is the Beretta Cx4 Storm in 45
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mgdavis

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Re: To tacktickle-ize or not to tacktickle-ize?
« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2009, 11:11:21 PM »
Get the new stock, keep the old stock. One for the range, one for hiking and pissing off the banners. Best of both worlds.  =D

Perd Hapley

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Re: To tacktickle-ize or not to tacktickle-ize?
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2009, 12:26:56 AM »
Nice job on the parody, there.   =)
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AZRedhawk44

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Re: To tacktickle-ize or not to tacktickle-ize?
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2009, 12:56:38 AM »
Given that the Camp 45 was discontinued in 1999 or thereabouts... what exactly is its legality in the eyes of the state of California?

My CCW and personal protection gun is a Colt Commander, so I've got magazine interchange with this guy.  Given that it's in a fixed wood stock right now and the biggest mag I have is 10rds (mostly 7 and 8rd mags), would this rifle be Cali-illegal in a folding stock?

Thinking of a few road trips into California some point here this spring/summer.  At the AZ/CA border I'll be unloading my CCW and stowing it in a locked case as I cross into CA, but I still have a bit of a boyscout mentality when it comes to having a long gun handy.

Out-of-stater with a folding stock "black" rifle isn't gonna make a lot of friends... but is the Camp 45 made illegal by adding a 2009 manufactured folding stock?

And... where can I find the manufacture date of my Camp 45, just in case predating 1994 is of issue?
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
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vaskidmark

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Re: To tacktickle-ize or not to tacktickle-ize?
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2009, 01:35:28 AM »
If you want to hit anything with the folding stock, you will need to either grasp the Camp by the barrel and whack away at your intended target, or get some sort of cheekpiece to add onto your folding stock.  Ask me how I know this.  Ask me, even, how I know that using any version of a holographic sight does not help unless you have a cheekpiece.

This http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=1870&title=LEATHER%20LACE-ON%20CHEEKPIECE works very well, and can transfer between ny Camp 45, Camp 9, and Magtech upper for the 1911.  Of course, it's now about $10 more than when I bought mine.

stay safe.

skidmark
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They keep making this eternal vigilance thing harder and harder.  Protecting the 2nd amendment is like playing PACMAN - there's no pause button so you can go to the bathroom.

Gewehr98

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Re: To tacktickle-ize or not to tacktickle-ize?
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2009, 02:19:00 AM »
I loved shooting my Camp 45, even with the icky trigger pull.

Cleaning and takedown?

No fun, especially in a blowback .45 ACP - crud got everywhere!

You need 4 hands to disassemble and reassemble the darned thing.

I left mine in the original wooden stock, but had a low-power scope and muzzle brake.

It was a blast for 100 yard steel silhouettes, using 200gr cast SWC loads.

I kind of miss mine, but some Kalifornian is probably tickled pink with his purchase after I put it on consignment in North Highlands all those years ago.   :laugh:
"Bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round...

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gunsmith

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Re: To tacktickle-ize or not to tacktickle-ize?
« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2009, 06:08:24 AM »
Given that the Camp 45 was discontinued in 1999 or thereabouts... what exactly is its legality in the eyes of the state of California?

My CCW and personal protection gun is a Colt Commander, so I've got magazine interchange with this guy.  Given that it's in a fixed wood stock right now and the biggest mag I have is 10rds (mostly 7 and 8rd mags), would this rifle be Cali-illegal in a folding stock?

Thinking of a few road trips into California some point here this spring/summer.  At the AZ/CA border I'll be unloading my CCW and stowing it in a locked case as I cross into CA, but I still have a bit of a boyscout mentality when it comes to having a long gun handy.

Out-of-stater with a folding stock "black" rifle isn't gonna make a lot of friends... but is the Camp 45 made illegal by adding a 2009 manufactured folding stock?

And... where can I find the manufacture date of my Camp 45, just in case predating 1994 is of issue?

if the folding stock has a pistol grip then it is an assault weapon by CA definition.

Also, no loaded mags in the long gun even if not chambered!
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AZRedhawk44

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Re: To tacktickle-ize or not to tacktickle-ize?
« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2009, 10:49:53 AM »
Very well... no folder for the Camp 45.

Alas, poor California!  I knew her, gunsmith; a state of infinite mirth, of most excellent climate; she had given to me much joy as a child; and now, how abhorrent an abomination it is!  My gorge rises at it.  Here lies the beach surf I have played in I know not how oft.  Where be your tourism revenue now?

 =D

I'll have to find some sort of nifty carbine that is Cali-legal for my road trips.  I've got a thuddy-thuddy, but I want an autoloader.
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
--Lysander Spooner

I reject your authoritah!

AZRedhawk44

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Re: To tacktickle-ize or not to tacktickle-ize?
« Reply #10 on: April 01, 2009, 10:53:13 AM »
You know.... M1 Carbines were definitely made prior to 1994.  One with a folding stock and a USGI magazine would predate all Cali laws regarding manufacture.

How can I acquire one in such a way that an M1 Carbine with wire folding stock would be a legal companion for my forays over there?
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
--Lysander Spooner

I reject your authoritah!

Gewehr98

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Re: To tacktickle-ize or not to tacktickle-ize?
« Reply #11 on: April 01, 2009, 12:22:03 PM »
Why the obsession with the folding stock?

Fixed-stock M1 Carbines were tactical long before it became Internet slang for "cool".

"Bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round...

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AZRedhawk44

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Re: To tacktickle-ize or not to tacktickle-ize?
« Reply #12 on: April 01, 2009, 12:51:37 PM »
Why the obsession with the folding stock?

Fixed-stock M1 Carbines were tactical long before it became Internet slang for "cool".



I hear ya and I reconsidered that... but I like the idea of the carbine fitting in the bottom of a dufflebag rather than being in a gun case of its own.  Easier to carry luggage, pack, etc.  A folded stock carbine is less than 24".  A fixed stock carbine is pushing 32-36" and too long.

Saavy?
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
--Lysander Spooner

I reject your authoritah!

vaskidmark

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Re: To tacktickle-ize or not to tacktickle-ize?
« Reply #13 on: April 01, 2009, 04:58:48 PM »
Does this meet Cali specs?  http://www.popguns.com/mech_tech.htm 

It folds.

stay safe.

skidmark
If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege.

Hey you kids!! Get off my lawn!!!

They keep making this eternal vigilance thing harder and harder.  Protecting the 2nd amendment is like playing PACMAN - there's no pause button so you can go to the bathroom.

AZRedhawk44

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Re: To tacktickle-ize or not to tacktickle-ize?
« Reply #14 on: April 01, 2009, 05:04:32 PM »
Does this meet Cali specs?  http://www.popguns.com/mech_tech.htm 

It folds.

stay safe.

skidmark

Quote from: MechTech Website
Legal Alert: This product is not for sale to California residents. Although the product of itself is legal, the resulting combination with a pistol frame becomes illegal under California law. At this time we know of no other states where the combination is not legal but we caution everyone to become aware of relative state and local laws.
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
--Lysander Spooner

I reject your authoritah!

Angel Eyes

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Re: To tacktickle-ize or not to tacktickle-ize?
« Reply #15 on: April 01, 2009, 06:40:07 PM »
I hear ya and I reconsidered that... but I like the idea of the carbine fitting in the bottom of a dufflebag rather than being in a gun case of its own.  Easier to carry luggage, pack, etc.  A folded stock carbine is less than 24".  A fixed stock carbine is pushing 32-36" and too long.

Saavy?

A folding stock on a semiautomatic centerfire rifle with a detachable magazine is verboten in California.  Also, California requires semiauto centerfire rifles to be at least 30" long with the stock folded/collapsed.  This differs from Federal law.

If you must have a folding stock, get a pump action shotgun or a rimfire rifle.  Or take a look at the Kel-Tec SU-16.  The A, B, and CA models are all legal in California.

An M1 carbine with the standard stock would also work.

Hope this helps.


« Last Edit: April 01, 2009, 07:17:54 PM by Jack Straw from Wichita »
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AZRedhawk44

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Re: To tacktickle-ize or not to tacktickle-ize?
« Reply #16 on: April 01, 2009, 06:53:08 PM »
Is the standard config Camp 45 illegal in Cali?

Sigh.

Screw it.

I'll just have to get a CMP Garand.  Forget about size, rebarrel for .308 so I can consolidate ammo with my M14 supply.

(M14 = not Cali legal since it has a bayo lug.)
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
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I reject your authoritah!

Gewehr98

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Re: To tacktickle-ize or not to tacktickle-ize?
« Reply #17 on: April 01, 2009, 06:57:40 PM »
M1A = Kali legal.

It's why Springfield, Inc. sells their Kalifornia-Special M1A with lugless ported muzzle brake vs. flash hider and lug.

Had I stayed there much longer, I probably would've wound up with one.

"Bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round...

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Angel Eyes

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Re: To tacktickle-ize or not to tacktickle-ize?
« Reply #18 on: April 01, 2009, 07:21:04 PM »
Is the standard config Camp 45 illegal in Cali?

As long as it's at least 30" long, it's legal.  I've seen Camp 9 and Camp 45 carbines for sale in Cali gun shops.

Quote
Sigh.

Screw it.

I'll just have to get a CMP Garand.  Forget about size, rebarrel for .308 so I can consolidate ammo with my M14 supply.

(M14 = not Cali legal since it has a bayo lug.)

The bayonet lug is not an evil feature under California law.  The flash suppressor is.  Put a muzzle brake on the semiauto M14/M1A and you're good to go.

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AZRedhawk44

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Re: To tacktickle-ize or not to tacktickle-ize?
« Reply #19 on: April 01, 2009, 07:39:28 PM »
That's right, it's not the bayo lug.  It's the flash suppressor.  Which has a bayo lug on it.

Quote
Put a muzzle brake on the semiauto M14/M1A and you're good to go.

Nope.

Match-fitted suppressor and front sight on this rifle.  Not coming off.  Extremely difficult to do in this particular case, and unwanted just to comply with California.

Quote
It's why Springfield, Inc. sells their Kalifornia-Special M1A with lugless ported muzzle brake vs. flash hider and lug.

I've seen lots of new rifles at the range with suppressors but no lugs.  Closer examination shows them to be Springers.  I assumed that Springfield was catering to lowest common denominator somewhere by getting rid of the bayo lug on the flash suppressor in order to appease lefty states.

Quote
As long as it's at least 30" long, it's legal.  I've seen Camp 9 and Camp 45 carbines for sale in Cali gun shops.

Camp 45 should be 30" long.  Cool.  I've only got 3 autoloaders... M14, AR and Camp 45.  I'd prefer to keep it that way for now.

So:  To not tacktickle-ize it is.
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
--Lysander Spooner

I reject your authoritah!

Gewehr98

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Re: To tacktickle-ize or not to tacktickle-ize?
« Reply #20 on: April 01, 2009, 08:02:44 PM »
Yeah, the lug went away in a blanket approach.

The Kalifornia-only M1A dispensed with the flash hider, and put that ported brake on, instead. 

That'll keep the drive-by shootings down, I guess.   =|
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Re: To tacktickle-ize or not to tacktickle-ize?
« Reply #21 on: April 01, 2009, 08:12:05 PM »
Don't underestimate the old level action. Especially if it has the thing that goes up. Although that's prolly illegal in Kalifornia.
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Re: To tacktickle-ize or not to tacktickle-ize?
« Reply #22 on: April 01, 2009, 08:30:42 PM »
Don't underestimate the old level action.

Yes, those spirit levels are very tactical.

Quote
Especially if it has the thing that goes up. Although that's prolly illegal in Kalifornia.

Only if you have a live ferret attached.

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Re: To tacktickle-ize or not to tacktickle-ize?
« Reply #23 on: April 01, 2009, 09:59:04 PM »
I'll have a Marlin Camp 9 in pretty good shape at a decent price up for sale soon. Anyone interested, shoot me a PM and I'll put you on the list. I'm waiting to here back from a guy, but if I don't here back from him somewhat soon, it'll be for sale. It comes with about 5 magazines (1 factory, the rest Mecgars) and some spare parts. Main issue with this one is the rear sight is missing.

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