Author Topic: Commentary: Bailouts will lead to rough economic ride  (Read 12596 times)

RadioFreeSeaLab

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Commentary: Bailouts will lead to rough economic ride
« on: September 23, 2008, 09:42:57 AM »

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/23/paul.bailout/index.html
Quote
Commentary: Bailouts will lead to rough economic ride

    * Story Highlights
    * Ron Paul: Too much government meddling in economy caused crisis
    * Paul says the bailouts are another case of excessive intervention in economy
    * The government isn't letting the market adjust prices to lower levels, Paul says
    * Paul: Bailout will only increase financial instability in the long run

By Ron Paul
Special to CNN

Editor's note: Ron Paul is a Republican congressman from Texas who ran for his party's nomination for president this year. He is a doctor who specializes in obstetrics/gynecology and says he has delivered more than 4,000 babies. He served in Congress in the late 1970s and early 1980s and was elected again to Congress in 1996. Rep. Paul serves on the House Financial Services Committee.

(CNN) -- Many Americans today are asking themselves how the economy got to be in such a bad spot.

For years they thought the economy was booming, growth was up, job numbers and productivity were increasing. Yet now we find ourselves in what is shaping up to be one of the most severe economic downturns since the Great Depression.

Unfortunately, the government's preferred solution to the crisis is the very thing that got us into this mess in the first place: government intervention.

Ever since the 1930s, the federal government has involved itself deeply in housing policy and developed numerous programs to encourage homebuilding and homeownership.

Government-sponsored enterprises Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were able to obtain a monopoly position in the mortgage market, especially the mortgage-backed securities market, because of the advantages bestowed upon them by the federal government.

Laws passed by Congress such as the Community Reinvestment Act required banks to make loans to previously underserved segments of their communities, thus forcing banks to lend to people who normally would be rejected as bad credit risks.

These governmental measures, combined with the Federal Reserve's loose monetary policy, led to an unsustainable housing boom. The key measure by which the Fed caused this boom was through the manipulation of interest rates, and the open market operations that accompany this lowering.

When interest rates are lowered to below what the market rate would normally be, as the Federal Reserve has done numerous times throughout this decade, it becomes much cheaper to borrow money. Longer-term and more capital-intensive projects, projects that would be unprofitable at a high interest rate, suddenly become profitable.

Because the boom comes about from an increase in the supply of money and not from demand from consumers, the result is malinvestment, a misallocation of resources into sectors in which there is insufficient demand.

In this case, this manifested itself in overbuilding in real estate. When builders realize they have overbuilt and have too many houses to sell, too many apartments to rent, or too much commercial real estate to lease, they seek to recoup as much of their money as possible, even if it means lowering prices drastically.

This lowering of prices brings the economy back into balance, equalizing supply and demand. This economic adjustment means, however that there are some winners -- in this case, those who can again find affordable housing without the need for creative mortgage products, and some losers -- builders and other sectors connected to real estate that suffer setbacks.

The government doesn't like this, however, and undertakes measures to keep prices artificially inflated. This was why the Great Depression was as long and drawn out in this country as it was.

I am afraid that policymakers today have not learned the lesson that prices must adjust to economic reality. The bailout of Fannie and Freddie, the purchase of AIG, and the latest multi-hundred billion dollar Treasury scheme all have one thing in common: They seek to prevent the liquidation of bad debt and worthless assets at market prices, and instead try to prop up those markets and keep those assets trading at prices far in excess of what any buyer would be willing to pay.

Additionally, the government's actions encourage moral hazard of the worst sort. Now that the precedent has been set, the likelihood of financial institutions to engage in riskier investment schemes is increased, because they now know that an investment position so overextended as to threaten the stability of the financial system will result in a government bailout and purchase of worthless, illiquid assets.

Using trillions of dollars of taxpayer money to purchase illusory short-term security, the government is actually ensuring even greater instability in the financial system in the long term.

The solution to the problem is to end government meddling in the market. Government intervention leads to distortions in the market, and government reacts to each distortion by enacting new laws and regulations, which create their own distortions, and so on ad infinitum.

It is time this process is put to an end. But the government cannot just sit back idly and let the bust occur. It must actively roll back stifling laws and regulations that allowed the boom to form in the first place.

The government must divorce itself of the albatross of Fannie and Freddie, balance and drastically decrease the size of the federal budget, and reduce onerous regulations on banks and credit unions that lead to structural rigidity in the financial sector.

Until the big-government apologists realize the error of their ways, and until vocal free-market advocates act in a manner which buttresses their rhetoric, I am afraid we are headed for a rough ride.

zahc

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Re: Commentary: Bailouts will lead to rough economic ride
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2008, 09:46:16 AM »
What a psycho. I can't believe anyone would ever take an extremist wacko like him seriously.
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Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Commentary: Bailouts will lead to rough economic ride
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2008, 10:34:46 AM »
Ron Paul is an amazing man.  He's absolutely 100% right on some issues.  This is one of them.  And yet, on some other issues he's dead nuts crazy wrong. 

longeyes

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the problem with leverage
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2008, 10:51:27 AM »
Factoid of the day, courtesy of investment pundit Nicholas Vardy:

The Bank of International Settlements estimates the total current value of all outstanding derivatives at $1.144 quadrillion.
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roo_ster

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Re: the problem with leverage
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2008, 12:24:37 PM »
Factoid of the day, courtesy of investment pundit Nicholas Vardy:

The Bank of International Settlements estimates the total current value of all outstanding derivatives at $1.144 quadrillion.

"Tulip Bubble," anyone?
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roo_ster

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Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: the problem with leverage
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2008, 12:53:34 PM »
Factoid of the day, courtesy of investment pundit Nicholas Vardy:

The Bank of International Settlements estimates the total current value of all outstanding derivatives at $1.144 quadrillion.
Any idea what the total market cap of all publicly traded stocks is?  Or the total value of all outstanding bonds?

Manedwolf

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Re: the problem with leverage
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2008, 12:54:12 PM »
Factoid of the day, courtesy of investment pundit Nicholas Vardy:

The Bank of International Settlements estimates the total current value of all outstanding derivatives at $1.144 quadrillion.

"Tulip Bubble," anyone?

BUY TULIPS ON MARGIN!

freedom lover

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Re: Commentary: Bailouts will lead to rough economic ride
« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2008, 01:31:16 PM »
This makes sense, alot more sense than anything I've heard about the economy before this. 

I need to learn more about politics and economics, since I'll be voting next year.

I don't want to be a tool or a pawn.

Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Commentary: Bailouts will lead to rough economic ride
« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2008, 01:47:05 PM »

I need to learn more about politics and economics, since I'll be voting next year.

On the economics side, you could start by reading Thomas Sowell' Basic Economics.

longeyes

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Re: Commentary: Bailouts will lead to rough economic ride
« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2008, 08:23:40 PM »
Quote
Any idea what the total market cap of all publicly traded stocks is?  Or the total value of all outstanding bonds?

I seem to recall reading that all the assets in the U.S. could be collateralized at around $50 trillion.  That includes the real estate comprising the nation.

The question I have is...what happens if we unwrap the Serpent that is Leverage from around our throats? 

And perhaps it's time we all planted a garden and got some chickens...
"Domari nolo."

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Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Commentary: Bailouts will lead to rough economic ride
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2008, 08:32:31 PM »
The question I have is...what happens if we unwrap the Serpent that is Leverage from around our throats? 
Deleveraging means selling.  Lots and lots of selling.  Just about every asset class would lose value. 

longeyes

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Re: Commentary: Bailouts will lead to rough economic ride
« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2008, 08:38:07 PM »
Would lose false value, you mean.

Whereas now we are simply dying a slow national death by depreciating our currency and selling our assets out to foreigners and redistributing wealth from the productive to the unproductive.  Is that what we are afraid to "lose?"

If our economy is based on bullshit, shouldn't we be grown-up enough to deal with that?  Why perpetuate an illusion?

But I don't think our economy is a phantom.  Over-valued, yes.  But so is everything else on this planet right now.
"Domari nolo."

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MicroBalrog

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Re: Commentary: Bailouts will lead to rough economic ride
« Reply #12 on: September 23, 2008, 11:00:43 PM »
Ron Paul is an amazing man.  He's absolutely 100% right on some issues.  This is one of them.  And yet, on some other issues he's dead nuts crazy wrong. 

Yes. THe problem is that some people are just so wound up around these two or three issues they'd rather vote for someone who's wrong on the other 90% of the stuff. Smiley
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Manedwolf

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Re: Commentary: Bailouts will lead to rough economic ride
« Reply #13 on: September 24, 2008, 03:56:30 AM »
Ron Paul is an amazing man.  He's absolutely 100% right on some issues.  This is one of them.  And yet, on some other issues he's dead nuts crazy wrong. 

Yes. THe problem is that some people are just so wound up around these two or three issues they'd rather vote for someone who's wrong on the other 90% of the stuff. Smiley

No, the problem is that HE is so wound up around two or three of those issues that it derails anything sensible he might say. He starts with the rising voice and crazy eyes about GOLD STANDARD, and everyone goes "Woah, the guy is nuts."

roo_ster

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Re: Commentary: Bailouts will lead to rough economic ride
« Reply #14 on: September 24, 2008, 05:29:18 AM »

I need to learn more about politics and economics, since I'll be voting next year.

On the economics side, you could start by reading Thomas Sowell' Basic Economics.

And for politics, PJ O'Rourke's Parliament of Whores.
Regards,

roo_ster

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Manedwolf

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Re: Commentary: Bailouts will lead to rough economic ride
« Reply #15 on: September 24, 2008, 06:15:57 AM »
.

MicroBalrog

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Re: Commentary: Bailouts will lead to rough economic ride
« Reply #16 on: September 24, 2008, 07:52:03 AM »

I need to learn more about politics and economics, since I'll be voting next year.

On the economics side, you could start by reading Thomas Sowell' Basic Economics.

Free to Choose is also extremely nice.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

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myrockfight

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Re: the problem with leverage
« Reply #17 on: September 24, 2008, 05:27:39 PM »
Factoid of the day, courtesy of investment pundit Nicholas Vardy:

The Bank of International Settlements estimates the total current value of all outstanding derivatives at $1.144 quadrillion.

"Tulip Bubble," anyone?


The tulip bubble would be more equivalent to the Dot Com bubble and the housing bubble as it relates more to the price rather than the consequences of what happens after the bubble bursts. It is more indirect. However, the US had 516 trillion last year alone in derivatives. I don't know exactly what ours are up to now. If only 2% of the derivative market fails at that number we are looking at a 10.32 trillion dollar bailout. Back when LTCM went under, the losses totaled around 4.6 billion. Even that was a big deal. But the companies that did proceed to bailout LTCM did make a slight profit.

What I am worried about, is the government leftists turning this into an opportunity to give the government a ridiculous amount of control. I know it does to some degree now, but I'm concerned that this will set a poor precedent. Some politicians are saying that companies should keep making loans to people who basically can't afford them. Yeah. Good idea. Turn this into a repeat where we do the same thing a few years down the road.


This is the info on LTCM's bailout courtesy of Wiki. It was a HUGE deal and it also needed to be done for many of the same reasons.

"[edit]
Goldman Sachs, AIG and Berkshire Hathaway offered then to buy out the fund's partners for $250 million, to inject $3.75 billion and to operate LTCM within Goldman's own trading division. The offer was rejected and the same day the Federal Reserve Bank of New York organized a bailout of $3.625 billion by the major creditors to avoid a wider collapse in the financial markets. The contributions from the various institutions were as follows: [4] [5]

$300 million: Bankers Trust, Barclays, Chase, Credit Suisse First Boston, Deutsche Bank, Goldman Sachs, Merrill Lynch, J.P.Morgan, Morgan Stanley, Salomon Smith Barney, UBS
$125 million: Soci?t? G?n?rale
$100 million: Lehman Brothers, Paribas
Bear Stearns declined to participate.
In return, the participating banks got a 90% share in the fund and a promise that a supervisory board would be established.

The fear was that there would be a chain reaction as the company liquidated its securities to cover its debt, leading to a drop in prices, which would force other companies to liquidate their own debt creating a vicious cycle.

The total losses were found to be $4.6 billion. The losses in the major investment categories were (ordered by magnitude):[3]

$1.6 bn in swaps
$1.3 bn in equity volatility
$430 mn in Russia and other emerging markets
$371 mn in directional trades in developed countries
$215 mn in yield curve arbitrage
$203 mn in S&P 500 stocks
$100 mn in junk bond arbitrage
no substantial losses in merger arbitrage
See also: East Asian financial crisis
Long Term Capital was audited by Price Waterhouse LLP.

Unsurprisingly, after the bailout by the other investors, the panic abated, and the positions formerly held by LTCM were eventually liquidated at a small profit to the bailers."


The Annoyed Man

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Re: Commentary: Bailouts will lead to rough economic ride
« Reply #18 on: September 25, 2008, 02:54:51 AM »
Ron Paul is an amazing man.  He's absolutely 100% right on some issues.  This is one of them.  And yet, on some other issues he's dead nuts crazy wrong. 

Yes. THe problem is that some people are just so wound up around these two or three issues they'd rather vote for someone who's wrong on the other 90% of the stuff. Smiley

No, the problem is that HE is so wound up around two or three of those issues that it derails anything sensible he might say. He starts with the rising voice and crazy eyes about GOLD STANDARD, and everyone goes "Woah, the guy is nuts."

I don't understand why the gold standard is "nuts." Inflation was relatively steady when our currency was backed by precious metals. And, I don't know about you guys, but, I kind of like the idea of feeling like what I have worked for has value. Oh, to have lived back in those dayswhen money wasn't "just" papercloth and everything was made in America.

My guess is that the people who expect us to think that the gold standard is nuts are the same people who can authorize the presses to churn out another 500,000 twenty-dollar bills whenever their palms itchThe men behind the curtain started another "nut" rumor, and now they're pissin' down our legs and telling us it is raining.




longeyes

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« Reply #19 on: September 25, 2008, 10:37:50 PM »
If gold isn't the answer, we need the economic "geniuses" who created the derivatives to tell us what might be.  What is clearly "nuts" is a completely untethered currency that started with modest leverage based on sober fiduciary standards and became an abstruse medieval bestiary concocted by a priesthood of quants with PhDs in financial string theory so loony in its extravagance that it now threatens to obliterate the strongest economy in world history.

Of course it's hard to tell a man who has built his earthly mansion on nitroglycerin that maybe, just maybe, he should stop dancing...
"Domari nolo."

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Racehorse

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Re: Commentary: Bailouts will lead to rough economic ride
« Reply #20 on: September 26, 2008, 06:07:52 AM »
I don't understand why the gold standard is "nuts."

Here's a pretty good explanation:
Quote
http://economics.about.com/cs/money/a/gold_standard_2.htm

Economist Michael D. Bordo explains:

"Because economies under the gold standard were so vulnerable to real and monetary shocks, prices were highly unstable in the short run. A measure of short-term price instability is the coefficient of variation, which is the ratio of the standard deviation of annual percentage changes in the price level to the average annual percentage change. The higher the coefficient of variation, the greater the short-term instability. For the United States between 1879 and 1913, the coefficient was 17.0, which is quite high. Between 1946 and 1990 it was only 0.8.

Moreover, because the gold standard gives government very little discretion to use monetary policy, economies on the gold standard are less able to avoid or offset either monetary or real shocks. Real output, therefore, is more variable under the gold standard. The coefficient of variation for real output was 3.5 between 1879 and 1913, and only 1.5 between 1946 and 1990. Not coincidentally, since the government could not have discretion over monetary policy, unemployment was higher during the gold standard. It averaged 6.8 percent in the United States between 1879 and 1913 versus 5.6 percent between 1946 and 1990."

While inflation stays low with the gold standard, cyclical economic fluctuations are a lot worse. The highs are a lot higher, and the lows are a lot lower.

There's also a lot of good information here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_standard

K Frame

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Re: Commentary: Bailouts will lead to rough economic ride
« Reply #21 on: September 26, 2008, 06:13:54 AM »
Rough economic ride?

As opposed to what's going on right now?

As opposed to what will be going on 6 months from now when levels of lending have constricted even more?

I hate the thought of a bailout, but I hate even more the thought of what will happen to the US economy when (not if, when) lending grinds to a halt. At least in this bail out the gov't should get a fairly substantial equity stake in the properties encompassed by these derivitives, and over time they should recover some value. The question is how much value.

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Art Eatman

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Re: Commentary: Bailouts will lead to rough economic ride
« Reply #22 on: September 26, 2008, 12:26:36 PM »
freedom lover, the learning process about money and politics is a lengthy process.  Even with help from knowlegable folks, we're talking years.

As far as government monetary policy, there are two main schools of thought:  Keynesian and Austrian.  You can Google for all this, and for books on the issues.  Keynesian is what our government has done since FDR bought into the program.  The Austrian crowd has been more accurate in predicting the idiocies which ensued from Keynesianism.  (This is obviously over-simplified to hell and back. Smiley )

Re the gold standard:  A pure gold standard is limited in part by the fact that there just ain't that much gold in existence to allow for the amount of economic activity, worldwide, that's been going on.  The cited article is correct about the relative volatility, but "panics" during the gold-standard era were pretty much of short duration.  Yeah, governments were limited in what they could do to end panics, but the modern system means lengthier periods of "merely unhappy".  You gotta figure which is better:  Pull the BandAid off, all at once, or just one hair at a time.

Back to the "Ride":  Even if magic happened and this "Cash for Trash" bailout did anything good, the fundamentals remain in place for a decline of the dollar's purchasing power, which means more of the present consumer price inflation.  They're not gonna find any new oil at a rate greater than worldwide consumption or increase in consumption.  Personal debt means that with the wipeout of the housing market, consumer spending will decrease.  Since some 2/3 of our economy's employment depends on consumeritis, we're gonna continue to see rising unemployment--which reduces tax income to all levels of government.

That's a few items of a list of fifty or more.

Not to be negative or anything...

Art
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Manedwolf

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Re: Commentary: Bailouts will lead to rough economic ride
« Reply #23 on: September 26, 2008, 12:28:51 PM »
Apparently Pelosi wants to help people with their credit card balances.

So helpful. Tongue

Tallpine

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Re: Commentary: Bailouts will lead to rough economic ride
« Reply #24 on: September 26, 2008, 01:28:25 PM »
Apparently Pelosi wants to help people with their credit card balances.

So helpful. Tongue

Well, heck - I should just go out and run mine up then  rolleyes

No sense missing out on all that "free money" just because I have been living prudently all these years  angry
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