Author Topic: The new credit card legislation?  (Read 12532 times)

280plus

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The new credit card legislation?
« on: May 19, 2009, 07:13:11 PM »
Anyone know if the bill passed today causes the CC companies to pay off your balance equally amongst interest rates as opposed to paying the lowest first and letting the higher ones linger and build the way they do now??

Plus I see some pro gun legislation was attached and passed.
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Fly320s

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Re: The new credit card legislation?
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2009, 07:49:48 PM »
What was the pro-gun stuff?
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280plus

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Re: The new credit card legislation?
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2009, 08:16:23 PM »
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Senate-votes-to-limit-credit-apf-15292841.html?sec=topStories&pos=1&asset=&ccode=


Senate OKs bill to rein in credit card practices
Senate votes to ban arbitrary credit card rate hikes and certain fees; House approval expected
Anne Flaherty, Associated Press Writer
On Tuesday May 19, 2009, 7:39 pm EDT
       Buzz up! Print WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Senate voted overwhelmingly on Tuesday to rein in credit card rate increases and excessive fees, hoping to give voters some breathing room amid a recession that has left hundreds of thousands of Americans jobless or facing foreclosure.

The House was on track to pass the measure as early as Wednesday, paving the way for President Barack Obama to see the bill on his desk by week's end.

"This is a victory for every American consumer who has ever suffered at the hands of a credit card company," said Sen. Christopher Dodd, D-Conn., chairman of the Banking Committee. The bill passed the Senate 90-5.

If enacted into law as expected, the bill woul give the credit card industry nine months to change the way it does business: Lenders would have to post their credit card agreements on the Internet and let customers pay their bills online or by phone without an added fee. They'd also have to give consumers a chance to spare themselves from over-the-limit fees and provide 45 days notice and an explanation before interest rates are increased.

Some of these changes are already on track to take effect in July 2010, under new rules being imposed by the Federal Reserve. But the Senate bill would put these changes into law and go further in restricting the types of bank fees and who can get a card.

For example, the Senate bill requires those under 21 who seek a credit card to prove first that they can repay the money or that a parent or guardian is willing to pay off their debt if they default.

Bankers warned the measure would restrict credit at a time when Americans need it most. They defended their existing interest rates and fees on grounds that their business -- lending money to consumers with no collateral and little more than a promise to pay it back -- is very risky.

"What has been a short-term revolving unsecured loan will now become a medium-term unsecured loan, which is significantly more risky," said Edward Yingling, president and CEO of the American Bankers Association.

"It is a fundamental rule of lending that an increase in risk means that less credit will be available and that the credit that is available will often have a higher interest rate," Yingling added.

Voting against the Senate measure were GOP Sens. Lamar Alexander of Tennessee, Robert Bennett of Utah, Jon Kyl of Arizona and John Thune of South Dakota, as well as Democratic Sen. Tim Johnson of South Dakota.

But other senators didn't want to face voters in the 2010 election without proof that they are listening to constituents crushed by foreclosure rates and joblessness. Recent reports show that the number of foreclosures jumped 32 percent in April compared with the same month last year, while the jobless rate that month rose to 8.9 percent.

The legislation would not cap interest rates as some lawmakers had hoped. It also wouldn't prevent lenders from finding new ways to drain customers' bank accounts or keep consumers from spending money they don't have.

But it would give spenders more flexibility and outlaw many of the surprise costs associated with credit cards at a time when money is tight in most households. For example, under the bill, a cardholder would have to opt to be allowed to go over a credit limit. If customers don't agree and the bank authorizes a charge that would push them over their limit, the lender couldn't levy an over-limit fee.

Another boon for consumers is limiting a practice known as "universal default," when a lender sharply increases a cardholder's interest rate on an existing balance because the customer is late paying that bill or other, unrelated bills. Under the new legislation, a customer would have to be more than 60 days behind on a payment before seeing a rate increase on an existing balance.

Even then, the credit card company would be required to restore the previous, lower rate after six months if the cardholder pays the minimum balance on time.

House Democratic leaders said they planned to move quickly. Last month, the House approved, by 357-70, a similar credit card bill by Rep. Carolyn Maloney, D-N.Y.

Complicating the issue somewhat was a measure added to the Senate bill that would allow people to carry loaded guns in national parks and wildlife refuges. That provision, sponsored by Sen. Tom Coburn, R-Okla., passed, 67-29.
House Democratic Leader Steny Hoyer of Maryland told reporters on Tuesday that the House might vote separately on the gun proposal so as not to bog down the credit card overhaul.

If the two bills are passed separately as expected, they would be rejoined before being sent to the president as a single bill, said Hoyer.

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digitalandanalog

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Re: The new credit card legislation?
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2009, 11:06:40 PM »
Eliminate some predatory credit card practices and allow guns in National Parks. Why can't all legislation have this kind common sense?

Ben

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Re: The new credit card legislation?
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2009, 11:18:26 PM »
Here's an interesting take on what this will do to people with good credit. If this is accurate, I'll be severely limiting my credit card use. I basically use my credit cards like cash and always pay within the grace period to avoid interest charges. If I start getting hit with annual fees and immediate finance charges, and lose perks like miles and cash back, I might just stick to my American Express card and my bank debit card. And cash -- I hear they still take that in some places....

---------------------


sun-sentinel.com/business/sfl-credit-cards-legislation-051sbmay19,0,1393849.story
South Florida Sun-Sentinel.com
Best card users' fees on the rise

By Andrew Martin

The New York Times

May 19, 2009
Click here to find out more! Quantcast

Credit cards have long been a very good deal for people who pay their bills on time and in full. Even as card companies imposed punitive fees and penalties on those late with their payments, the best customers racked up cash-back rewards, frequent flier miles and other perks in recent years.

Now Congress is moving to limit the penalties on riskier borrowers, who have become a prime source of billions of dollars in fee revenue for the industry. And to make up for lost income, the card companies are going after those people with sterling credit.

Banks are expected to look at reviving annual fees, curtailing cash-back and other rewards programs and charging interest immediately on a purchase instead of allowing a weeks-long grace period, according to bank officials and trade groups.

"It will be a different business," said Edward L. Yingling, the chief executive of the American Bankers Association, which has been lobbying Congress for more lenient legislation on behalf of the nation's biggest banks. "Those that manage their credit well will in some degree subsidize those that have credit problems."

As they thin their ranks of risky cardholders to deal with an economic downturn, major banks including American Express, Citigroup, Bank of America and a long list of others already have begun to raise interest rates, and some have targeted consumers who pay their bills on time. The legislation scheduled for a Senate vote today does not cap interest rates, so banks can continue to lift them, albeit at a slower pace and with greater disclosure.

"There will be one-size-fits-all pricing, and as a result you'll see the industry will be more egalitarian in terms of its revenue base," said David Robertson, publisher of the Nilson Report, which tracks the credit card business.

People who routinely pay off their credit card balance have been enjoying the equivalent of a free ride, he said, because many have not had to pay an annual fee while they collect points for air travel and other perks.

"Despite all the terrible things that have been said, you're making out like a bandit," he said. "That's a third of credit card customers, 50 million people who have gotten a great deal."

Robert Hammer, an industry consultant, said the legislation might have the broad effect of encouraging card issuers to become ever more reliant on fees from marginal customers as well as creditworthy cardholders, who are dubbed "deadbeats" in industry parlance because they generate scant fee revenue.

"They aren't charities. They have shareholders to report to," he said, referring to banks and credit card companies. "Whatever is left in the model to work from, they will start to maneuver."

Banks used to give credit cards only to the best consumers and charge them a flat interest rate of about 20 percent and an annual fee. But with the relaxing of usury laws in some states, and the ready availability of credit scores in the late 1980s, banks began offering cards with a variety of different interest rates and fees, tying the pricing to the credit risk of the cardholder.

That helped push interest rates down for many consumers, but they soared for riskier cardholders, who became a significant source of revenue for the industry. The recent economic downturn challenged that formula, and banks started dumping the riskiest and lowering their credit limits in earnest as the recession accelerated. Now, a rising number of consumers who pay their bills off every month are complaining of shortened grace periods, new hidden fees and higher interest rates.

The industry says the proposals will force banks to issue fewer credit cards at greater cost to the current cardholders.

Citigroup and Capital One referred comments to the ABA. Discover and American Express declined to comment. Bank of America intends to "provide credit to the largest number of creditworthy customers possible while also remaining prudent in our lending practices," said Betty Riess, a spokeswoman. Together with JPMorgan Chase, which has said the changes will force it to limit credit availability and raise fees, these banks make up 80 percent of the credit card industry.

Banks are not required to publicly reveal how much money they make from penalty interest rates and fees, though government officials and industry consultants estimate they constitute a growing portion of revenues.

For instance, Hammer said the amount of money generated by penalty fees like late charges and exceeding credit limits has increased by about $1 billion annually in recent years and should top $20 billion this year.

Regulations passed by the Federal Reserve in December to curb unexpected interest charges would cost issuers about $12 billion a year in lost fees and income, according to industry calculations. The legislation before Congress would build on the Fed rules and would further squeeze bank revenues at a time when they are being hit with a high rate of credit card charge-offs. The government's stress tests showed that the nation's 19 biggest banks will take on $82 billion in credit card losses in the next two years.
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Regolith

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Re: The new credit card legislation?
« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2009, 11:40:45 PM »
Here's an interesting take on what this will do to people with good credit. If this is accurate, I'll be severely limiting my credit card use. I basically use my credit cards like cash and always pay within the grace period to avoid interest charges. If I start getting hit with annual fees and immediate finance charges, and lose perks like miles and cash back, I might just stick to my American Express card and my bank debit card. And cash -- I hear they still take that in some places....

Same here.  I always pay off the balance, every month, and I've got pretty good credit.  I don't get perks on my card, so I couldn't care less about those, but annual fees and having interest start immediately will severely negate the usefulness of my card.  Having no grace period for purchases will pretty much turn my CC into something I'll only use for emergencies, and use cash or by debit card for everything else.


This may hurt banks in the long run; they get a fee every time a CC is used at a point of sale.  Less people using credit cards mean less fees from merchants. 
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Sindawe

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Re: The new credit card legislation?
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2009, 12:53:30 AM »
Quote
Here's an interesting take on what this will do to people with good credit.

Already seeing it. 

I have an exemplary credit rating and history.

The one card I normally use& run a modest balance on (they have been genourus with the line of credit, I'll toss them some bones in interest for the consideration), I've run up some costs dealing with first the issues of Kahless last month and more recently the "fun" with the family and trip this coming weekend sent me notification that "to remain profitable" they are doubling the interest rate they charge.

"No, we will not reconsider even though you are a customer of long and good standing.  The Rate is The Rate."

"Fine.  Forget you fools.  You'll earn no more coin from me.  Ever.  I'll be paying the balance off by the end the week.  You people can suck vacuum."

"I'm sorry to hear that, maybe we could adjus-"  *CLICK*

I hate dipping into savings to clear it, but it will only set me back a few months of Feeding the Hole.  And if it spites them, no matter how small the measure....

I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.

K Frame

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Re: The new credit card legislation?
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2009, 01:38:49 AM »
Remember, if you cancel that card, it will have an effect on your credit rating in the short term.

I've built my credit rating up to just shy of 800; I should go over 800 next month.

But, if any of my card companies either raises my rate or tries to hit me with an annual fee, I cancel the card immediately. I'll take the short term hit on my credit rating.

I owe less than $2,000 in debt on credit cards, and over half of that is on two cards on which I'm charged no interest (Best Buy and Circuit City).

I'll simply go back to using only credit cards from my credit unions.

I'm the kind of consumer that the big card companies fear most -- the kind that doesn't need them. They need me, and I'll be god damned if I'm going to pay more to them because of their bad lending models and horrible investment strategies.
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HankB

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Re: The new credit card legislation?
« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2009, 08:49:46 AM »
. . . But, if any of my card companies either raises my rate or tries to hit me with an annual fee, I cancel the card immediately.  . . . I'm the kind of consumer that the big card companies fear most -- the kind that doesn't need them. They need me, and I'll be god damned if I'm going to pay more to them because of their bad lending models and horrible investment strategies.
I find myself in total agreement with this.

I currently only use my credit cards as cash, paying off the balance every month . . . but they're comforting to have in case of emergency. My VISA card was issued with "no annual fee for life" so it will be interesting if they try to change THOSE terms, and the main reason to have a Discover card is the cashback bonus. I don't NEED either one of these cards, and if either one tries to put the screws to me, it's adios, muchacho.
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K Frame

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Re: The new credit card legislation?
« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2009, 10:58:51 AM »
I wonder how long it will be until the card companies revive application fees for credit cards.

And here's a new one for them to consider -- a fee to close the card.
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Balog

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Re: The new credit card legislation?
« Reply #10 on: May 20, 2009, 11:02:28 AM »
Suddenly my decision to have no credit cards aside from the USAA one I don't use makes me so happy.....
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Ben

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Re: The new credit card legislation?
« Reply #11 on: May 20, 2009, 11:12:52 AM »

And here's a new one for them to consider -- a fee to close the card.

Hey! Whose side are you on anyways! :P
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Re: The new credit card legislation?
« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2009, 11:33:08 AM »
I am a free-market kinda guy, but these schmoes are the poxied whores of the market.

My only problem with them getting rogered at noon on Main Street is that they will pass the rogering on to us.
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charby

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Re: The new credit card legislation?
« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2009, 11:35:29 AM »
Maybe I need to blow my Cabelas points post haste.

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K Frame

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Re: The new credit card legislation?
« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2009, 12:08:29 PM »
I just got a rewards certificate from my Amazon Chase card.


I'm going to use it and the card to buy a coffee maker, pay off the balance, and then just hit a holding pattern for awhile to see where Chase goes with all of this.
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280plus

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Re: The new credit card legislation?
« Reply #15 on: May 20, 2009, 04:06:36 PM »
So far chase has been cool. BOA on the other hand.  ;/ That one is almost paid off and already in the "never ever use again" pile. Has been for a while now. ;)
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K Frame

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Re: The new credit card legislation?
« Reply #16 on: May 20, 2009, 04:49:38 PM »
I went through hell with Bank of America trying to collect on some insurance that my father had.

They kept losing the claims until they were able to say that I hadn't submitted the claim in the required number of days.

I was just getting read to escalate external to that band of crooked bastards when, absolutely out of the blue and less than 3 days AFTER I had gotten their latest "We're not paying you, you didn't file your claim in time" form letter in response to all of the crap showing them that I had filed MULTIPLE times, I got a check for the full amount.

Then I got a follow up call from someone asking me to review the service on my claim and also trying to cross sell me.

I gave her both barrels, kicked her in the face, then the ass, then the face again, then drove a steam roller over her multiple times.

Well, obviously I literally didn't but man did I unload on her and tell her exactly what I thought of BOA, its employees, its managers, the whole 9 yards.
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FTA84

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Re: The new credit card legislation?
« Reply #17 on: May 20, 2009, 04:57:59 PM »
Chase has been in my never use again pile for a couple of years now.  They do 'automatic' rate/limit adjustments based on your credit report which are nothing more than malicious attempts to use your credit report into forcing you to violate its term agreements.

Example: You sell your old beater car, put the $3000 in the bank until you can move it to your Chase mutual fund, Chase sees your bank account balance increase and 'automatically' determines that you have enough cash for a credit limit increase.  They double your credit limit (without your asking or knowledge), you then move that money into your mutual fund, and next time Chase automatically probes your credit (about once a month), Chase takes your 6% interest rate to 22% because you 'violated the terms of your cardholder agreement' to keep a certain percentage of your credit limit in your bank account.

Notice the catch, as you increase money in your account, they up your credit limit, but on the way down, the raise the interest rate.  Shouldn't they lower the interest rate as you go up or bring the credit limit down as you come down?  Oh wait, that wouldn't bring in the revenue.

I have the GM card through HSBC, they have done well by me.  I just recently maxed out on the credit towards the purchase of a GM vehicle, sad I will never get to use it.

MechAg94

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Re: The new credit card legislation?
« Reply #18 on: May 20, 2009, 06:27:28 PM »
I have an old Amex Optima card that is still technically active.  I might have to change over to the regular card if they do this stuff.  I do my banking with BofA and their Visa card is convenient since I can pay the balance online at any time of the month.  I can do that through my credit union though.  Just too lazy to switch my checking account around I guess.  :)
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Leatherneck

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Re: The new credit card legislation?
« Reply #19 on: May 20, 2009, 06:34:44 PM »
Holy Mackerel! The House AND the Senate have now passed the guns-in-parks rider, despite the predicted lamentations of liberals from CA that were indignant that this couldn't be "just a credit card bill" and not a give-in to us gun nuts,

I'm surprised.

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thebaldguy

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Re: The new credit card legislation?
« Reply #20 on: May 20, 2009, 06:35:02 PM »
We have had three cards cancelled on us so far this year. We didn't use them, so they were cancelled via a letter. When we called in protest, they were more than happen to give us a new card at twice the rate. In addition, three other cards had the rate doubled and the credit amount cut in half.

That hurt our perfect credit.

This is all with perfect credit. We rarely carry a balance, and never have been late with a payment. We have no debt, and our mortgage balance of $2990.00 is in the process of being paid off at the end of the month. Cars are paid off, and no other debt.

Now they will start with annual fees and closing fees. I saw this coming. Not only did they get bailout money to stimulate the economy, they are putting the squeeze on consumers even more. They will charge you $50 per year for a card you don't use often. If you cancel it, it's a bad mark on your credit. So if I need to use credit, it will cost me more because of the cancelled cards. You can't win.

They are punishing people who play by the rules.

Is this extortion?

FTA84

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Re: The new credit card legislation?
« Reply #21 on: May 20, 2009, 06:44:28 PM »
They are punishing people who play by the rules.

Is this extortion?

Depends, they are "punishing" people that don't make them money.

This has been going on a long time.

I remember when I was 22 or so, my college friend's dad was loaded.  He was a 68 yr old retired electrical engineer who was rich independent of the fact that he inherited a buttload of money (and land) over the last 20 years as his other successful family members kicked the bucket.  He couldn't get a credit card that had more than a $500 limit, I remember him complaining about this because his son had that day gotten a credit card with a $10,000 limit.

People who have money don't need credit  -- the low credit rating reflects that they won't be making money on you.

Want a high credit rating? Get a bunch of loans and never miss a payment.  They will make a ton of reliable money on you, its what they want, high yield and low risk.

FTA84

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Re: The new credit card legislation?
« Reply #22 on: May 20, 2009, 06:45:51 PM »
Double post

crt360

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Re: The new credit card legislation?
« Reply #23 on: May 20, 2009, 07:13:46 PM »

Then I got a follow up call from someone asking me to review the service on my claim and also trying to cross sell me.

I gave her both barrels, kicked her in the face, then the ass, then the face again, then drove a steam roller over her multiple times.



 :laugh: :laugh:

Thanks, Mike, that made my day.
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K Frame

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Re: The new credit card legislation?
« Reply #24 on: May 20, 2009, 07:15:53 PM »
"If you cancel it, it's a bad mark on your credit."

That is a very temporary thing. If you have solid credit already, with a high score, the dip is not going to be that much and it very likely would not affect your ability to get financing at very attractive terms.

The primary damage is to one's pride.

"Closing costs."

I don't think anyone is talking about closing costs other than me in a tongue in cheek manner.
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