Anyone own a Subaru Outback?

[Fly320s]

We're in the market for a replacement vehicle that would be suitable for New Hampshire winters.  We like the Subaru line for the all wheel drive feature, but we don't know much else about them.  We took an Outback and a Legacy for a test drive, but that isn't enough to make a decision.

Anyone have any firsthand experience with the brand?

[mtnbkr]

We're in the market for a replacement vehicle that would be suitable for New Hampshire winters.  We like the Subaru line for the all wheel drive feature, but we don't know much else about them.  We took an Outback and a Legacy for a test drive, but that isn't enough to make a decision.

Anyone have any firsthand experience with the brand?

Mike Irwin has one.  Talk to him.

Chris

[Scott]

I don't own one and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn last night but I am a professional mechanic. They are good cars, reasonably cheap to maintain, and last forever with a modicum of reasonable care. The 100K service is expensive because it is time to replace the timing belt and replace several other things that are due such as plugs and fluids. Find a good Subi mechanic, you want someone familiar with the brand because they do have a couple of idosynchrasies, plus it is easier to trust someone who knows what they are doing. PM me if you need a name I am also a member of iATN.com a technician website with a lot of the sharpest crayons in the mechanic box.

[Gewehr98]

They've been real popular here in Wisconsin, and not just the gay crowd. Starting with the Subaru Legacy series,  U.S. Postal Service Employees who deliver on the rural routes out in the country were given the opportunity to buy Subarus for their designated routes, complete with right-hand driver controls.  The right-hand drive Legacy hasn't been available since 1999, so I'm seeing Outbacks and Foresters out on the county trunks replacing the Legacy as the latter rusts out here in the snowbelt.

[K Frame]

"They've been real popular here in Wisconsin, and not just the gay crowd."

HAYYYYYYYYYYYY Sailor!


I bought a 1997 used in 2001 when my old Plymouth blew up. All in all, I'm extremely happy with my Subaru. I can recommend them highly.

I needed a car that I could transport two 60-lb. dogs in and still have room for the crap I needed to take along.

I looked at a lot of different cars before I finally chose the Subaru. It's very likely that I'm going to be driving Subarus for a LONG time to come.

The thing is a freaking mountain goat in bad weather. I've driving a lot of 4WD vehicles over the years -- Scout II, Suburban, a bunch of pick up trucks, and this Subaru beats them all hollow.

Handles well, very comfortable.

The biggest problem with the Subaru up to about 2001 was the oil pump seal. It had a bad tendency to leak, and it took a long time for them to figure out the fix. I had mine fixed in 2002 when I sprung a leak, and it's starting to leak again, but that's the worst thing I can say about them.

They're also known for audible piston slap when the engine is cold, due mainly to short skirt pistons. I don't know if that's been addressed in later years.

Mileage isn't spectacular, the best I've ever gotten on the highway is about 29 mgp, around town its normally 22-24.

A friend has a 2004 6-cylinder. VERY VERY nice, but it takes high test gas. Not a good thing in today's environment.


The most annoying SMALL thing about my 97 is the lack of small-item storage in the front. Not a lot of places to put things. The cup holder is also a joke on the 1997. It will hold anything as long as the base is the size of a 12-ounce coke can. When it's open it blocks the radio.

But, that's small beans.

You do need a good mechanic with a Subaru, either the dealer or someone who knows his way around them. Plugs are expensive as hell -- $10 a piece at the auto parts store. Don't skimp on the plugs, either, or you'll have performance issues. Same with the engine filter element -- I pay a premium for the Subaru element. I tried a Fram element and had performance issues that caused me to go to the Subaru dealership and buy OEM. When I put the OEM in, the performance issues went away.

My 'roo came out of Massachusetts and has the winter package installed. I've never used the core heater (I went to use it this past winter and found that the cord was damaged, and haven't replaced it yet). Given that I'm now driving less than 3 miles to the office, I'm going to have to think about using the core heater or I'll never get the thing warm in the winter.

but the heated seats and mirrors are a REAL bonus, though.

Oh, a lot of the Subarus don't have a timing belt. They have TWO timing belts. That's what you get with the horizontal opposed engine.

[Stand_watie]

My little brother has one and is very happy with it. They're very popular in Maine (where he lives). If they made them in 2 wheel drive I'd buy a baja.

[Ex-MA Hole]

I have an '05 XT that I've had for about 7 weeks.  I traded my Audi A6 for it.  Audi was too much $$$ to repair.

My first impression is that it is great.  Mine takes 91 octane or better, due to the turbo.  I couldn't get comfy in the straight 4, I wanted some kick.  The Turbo DEFINATELY has kick.  More than I need, to be honest.

So far, the only "loaded" trip was with my wife, toddler in a car seat and 60# border collie.  Oh, and the cooler, bags with swimming stuff, beach blankets, etc.

Pleanty of room.  I'm happy.  I was nervous getting a Subie, but the AWD in NH is a huge bonus!

[HForrest]

We had a... '98 model I think... 'couple years back. Overall, a well-built and soild vehicle that I could reasonably recommend to someone. We sold it just as it was starting to get some undetermined mechanical problem, and I know one person who bought a 2000 model and absolutely hated it. However, most people seem to like the car, and our experience with it was generally good.

Also, don't expect the car to get you through any *substansial* messes. It's definitely beneficial for winter driving over a standard 2WD, but my experience is they're not quite as "tough" as they're portrayed to be.

[K Frame]

"Also, don't expect the car to get you through any *substansial* messes."

Define substantial. That's a sliding scale. A Chevy Suburban won't get you through some messes that are substantial enough.

Subaru of my vintage has, IIRC, about 7" of ground clearance, while starting around 2002 it was upped to over 8", putting it ahead of some "traditional" 4WDS. http://www.theautochannel.com/newcardb/cccars.html?bodystyle=Luxury%20Sport-Utility&titleid=326

The year after I got my Outback I was home for Christmas, and the town where my parents live in Pa. had over 18" of snow. They also don't believe in plowing. I was getting around just fine. A couple of years later we had a similar storm here in Va., and again, I was getting around fine in unplowed lots and other areas where the snow hadn't been dealt with.

Truth is that you can get into serious trouble with just about any SUV type vehicle if you ask too much of it.


As for the toughness aspect, do you really think Subaru, or any manufacturer, is going to paint one pink and put Barbi behind the wheel?

Ultimately, you have to remember what the Outback really is -- it's a frigging station wagon that has been lifted and had AWD added. It's like a lot of today's SUVs -- it's an AWD on a passenger car frame.  I'd never consider taking one in some of the places that Chris takes his 4Runner. His 4Runner is designed for serious off road work, my Outback isn't.

[Perd Hapley]

They've been real popular here in Wisconsin, and not just the gay crowd.

Who else have you got in Wisconson?  

No, really, I don't get it.  Subarus are gay?

I remember right after I bought my first pick-up truck.  I was about 23 years old, and I really liked the masculine image of my big, ugly truck.  I was leaving a Barnes & Noble, and all excited to be getting into the truck and driving off.  I had left the radio turned way up on the local, listener-supported radio station, which plays just about every kind of music known on earth.  I got in, in a very masculine way, and cranked 'er up.  The radio immediately began blaring, "It's raining men!, Hallelujah, it's raining men!"  No kidding.

[garrettwc]

Lady at work has two (or maybe three, I've lost count). She loves 'em. She gets the new one and then passes to hubby for a work car, who passes down to junior for a teenage knock around car.

[MillCreek]

Subarus are very popular here in western Washington.  Several years ago, an article was published in Medical Economics stating that at the time, about 40% of all Subarus were bought by healthcare workers.  An old girlfriend had an Outback, and it was a very reliable car and handled the snow up in the mountain passes pretty well.  When I bought my 2005 Ford Escape new, I gave serious consideration to a Forester, but the interior was just not big enough for my needs.

[K Frame]

I looked at the Forester, too, and didn't care for it at all.

The Outback has much more cargo room and has a better ride. The Forester also felt very top heavy to me in curves and turns.

[Tallpine]

One of my daughters has a 1995 Legacy AWD.  They drove it to the school bus stop or sometimes to school during their senior year.

I am really disapointed with it.  I don't care what the clearance figures say, it sits way lower to the ground than a pickup or suburban and consequently picks up a lot of mud from dirt roads in our area.  Yeah, the larger vehicles also pick up mud (hundreds of pounds at times) but it doesn't get into anything important, while on the Subaru it got to where they could not get the transmission into gear because of the impacted mud.

Plus either the mud destroyed the rear axle boots (which in turn destroyed the axles) or else the Subaru dealer sold it to us with bad boots.     I don't see where they are cheap to fix either because you have to take it to a special mechanic and not just the regular shop in town.  Everytime the damn "check engine" light comes on, it seems like it cost $200-$300 to diagnose and fix it - usually some part I have never even heard of before.

And the gas mileage isn't even all that great ....


That's my $0.02.

[K Frame]

Tallpine,

It sounds as if you're describing a car that had physical problems that the mud exposed, not that were caused by the mud.

"I don't care what the clearance figures say, it sits way lower to the ground than a pickup or suburban and consequently picks up a lot of mud from dirt roads in our area."

Uhm... have you actually measured the low-point ground clearance? Given that it's a 1995, could you need new shocks/struts? I don't think I claimed that the Subaru has as much ground clearance as a generic "pick up" (in fact, it has greater ground clearance that some pickups, but not as much as others), and especially not a Suburban.


"Everytime the damn "check engine" light comes on, it seems like it cost $200-$300 to diagnose and fix it - usually some part I have never even heard of before."

*expletive deleted*it, I was into that with my generic Plymouth every time something went wrong with it. Cars are expensive, and they're only getting worse as more and more computer crap is packed into them.

[Fly320s]

Thanks, folks.

Have any of you taken your Subaru on a long drive?  During my short test drive, the car felt like it would be uncomfortable for long drives... a firm ride with firm seats.

[Ex-MA Hole]

Tallpine-


You said "Legacy".  These DO sit lower to the ground.  The Outback is a Legacy that has been lifted a bit.  I THINK my 05 is something like 9 inches.


Fly-

I'm six feet.  I have had mine like 6-7 weeks.  I have 4,500 and change on her already.  I spent almost 5 hours in her the other day.

No issues getting out.  Comfy, etc.

[K Frame]

Yes. 972 miles in one day. A week later 950+- miles in one day.

The seats are fine for me, but the padding is a little weak.

[Stand_watie]

Note about 4wd. I've lived both in Maine and in West Michigan (the snowbelt fingernail along the lakeshore that gets almost as much snow as the Buffalo, NY area). I notice you're currently in TN. If you haven't lived in snowy areas before, it's worth noting that a 2wd and prudent judgement will get you a lot farther than 4wd and even average judgement. I would estimate that greater than 90% of 4wd owners in both of those places don't actually need 4wd more than once every few years, and a substantial number of 4wd owners in all the places I've lived seem to think that a 4wd is a good substitute for using your head. A 4wd will get you into a lot of places that nothing but a winch will get you out of. It won't help you stop much if any better than 2wd, which is more important on snowy roads than going. I can't count the number of times I've been passed on 30 mph condition roads by a yahoo in a 4wd doing 65, only to see them in a snowbank or a wreck a few miles down the road.

I don't know about the road crews in NH, but I suspect they are like the road crews in Maine, which is to say, efficient. You're greatest likelyhood of really needing your 4wd is if you have a really long driveway, or want to drive on two-tracks or lumber roads to go shooting.

[Ex-MA Hole]

I've owned a few 4x4/ 4WD/ AWD vehicles in the past, and look at driving in snow/ ice like this:
4WD/ AWD, etc will get you anywhere.
Ice is ice.
2WD cars have 4 brakes- one for each wheel.
4WD cars ALSO have the SAME 4 brakes.

Ice is ice.

Even w/ 4WD, you still need to use your head.  More.

DO NOT get cocky w/ the 4WD.  I can save you, but it can also kill you.

M

[Fly320s]

Stand-watie and Ex-ma hole,

I am in agreement with you about 4 wheel drive on snow and ice.  We don't intend to use the Outback (or whatever we buy) as a crutch for foul weather, but it would be nice to have that feature if needed.

I have a Nissan Xterra with 4 wheel drive, which is fine for me, but my wife doesn't feel comfortable in her car in bad weather.  Normally we could share my car, but if we move to NH we will probably need two cars.  She has a Jeep Grand Cherokee (2wd only) with the big engine with lots of power.  It's great for long trips and highway driving: very comfortable and plenty of power, but it gets pretty squirrely in wet/slippery conditions.  Obviously, the tires play a big role in that area so we may just change tires to see what kind of benefit that we can get from that.

We're still deciding if buy a diferent car is worth the expense and hassle or if we should just keep the Jeep and buy new tires for it.

[K Frame]

Something need to be cleared up here...

The Outback, no matter what Paul Hogan tells you, is not an off-road vehicle. It's a car on a car frame. It's not a car that you're going to be taking into extremely rough country. Yes, it has good ground clearance, but it's simply not tough enough to do true off-roading with.

The all-wheel drive aspect of the Subaru, Mazda MPV, Audi Quatro, or any of the other cars so equipped isn't for climbing Pike's Peak on the outside.

They're designed, and marketed, primarily as family cars. The AWD feature gives an extra safety margin when driving in marginal conditions.

[Firethorn]

They're designed, and marketed, primarily as family cars. The AWD feature gives an extra safety margin when driving in marginal conditions.

And that's why I'm seriously considering getting one.  I've lost traction to one wheel far too often to like it, and I do only on-road driving.  It'd just that I have to climb some steep hills that often haven't been cleared yet to get to work.  I'd rather not spend ten minutes in one spot putting down sand to get going.  Heck, I'd probably be satisfied with a limited slip differential, but they generally don't put those into anything but top line sports models, and it's expensive to put in aftermarket.

I like the outback though.

[K Frame]

Well, as I noted above, I've had my car in some pretty snowy conditions (at least for the mid-Atlantic) and it has done VERY well. I got into and out of a parking lot where a Mazda 4WD pick up was hung up on a frozen ridge of snow...

No number of driving wheels is a substitute for critical thinking and proper driving techniques.

[Tallpine]

Tallpine,

It sounds as if you're describing a car that had physical problems that the mud exposed, not that were caused by the mud.

"I don't care what the clearance figures say, it sits way lower to the ground than a pickup or suburban and consequently picks up a lot of mud from dirt roads in our area."

Uhm... have you actually measured the low-point ground clearance? Given that it's a 1995, could you need new shocks/struts? I don't think I claimed that the Subaru has as much ground clearance as a generic "pick up" (in fact, it has greater ground clearance that some pickups, but not as much as others), and especially not a Suburban.


"Everytime the damn "check engine" light comes on, it seems like it cost $200-$300 to diagnose and fix it - usually some part I have never even heard of before."

*expletive deleted*it, I was into that with my generic Plymouth every time something went wrong with it. Cars are expensive, and they're only getting worse as more and more computer crap is packed into them.

Yeah, on your first item - for anybody who cares, Rimrock Subaru in Billings are bunch of crooks IMO

The biggest issue for us is not the lowest point ground clearance, but the overall ground clearance.  The big vehicles have enough room under the fenders and body to collect a lot of mud without it affecting anything mechanical.  And you can just hose it out later on.  The worst part is the mud/rocks that collect in the disc brakes

The "computer crap" is why I am pretty much content to pour expensive gas through my older pickup and Suburban.  I can either spend the money on gas or high repair bills.  I choose the former, especially since they are all paid for.

***

BTW, our biggest issue up here is "gumbo mud" and not the snow.  When we still lived in the mountains of western Colorado, I had given up on 4wd because of the higher initial cost and higher maintenance.  I still have my 2wd GMC p/u which I even used to drive to the timber as a logger in CO.  Snow doesn't matter too much - just put on tire chains and keep going.  Anywhere I had to go, the log trucks had to go as well so the roads were usually pretty well packed.  Except for the extreme conditions in the timber (like Grand Mesa in November), radial tires and a 4 speed and knowing how to drive got me everywhere I needed to go.

But lying down in the mud to put on tire chains is no fun.  Around here, you might not even get through the county road in a 4wd.  The best thing is to stay home until the sun comes out and dries the surface.  But if you have to go somewhere, you're not going anywhere without at least 4wd after a 1" rain.  It tears up the driveway and road less too, if you know how to ease through and not spin and slide.

It still amazes me why people who live in town and on paved roads think they need a 4wd (except for recreational use).