More dumb laws... Ban Targets!

[T.O.M.]

This guy thinks the solution to violence is to outlaw targets shaped like humans...

http://lancasteronline.com/news/local/pa-lawmaker-seeks-to-ban-human-silhouette-targets/article_b8249d6c-9bf6-11e4-a97b-539a1318bad9.html

I'm at a loss for words...

[wmenorr67]

Then you have this:

http://news.yahoo.com/outrage-south-florida-police-black-mugshots-targets-051633498.html

A Miami-area police department responded on Friday to public outrage over its snipers using photos, for target practice, of black suspects the agency had previously arrested, saying that photos of real people were often used for training.

The use of the mugshots was revealed to police leaders in late December after members of the Florida Army National Guard discovered the photos at a shooting range during their annual weapons qualifications training, according to the North Miami Beach Police Department and a Miami NBC affiliate.

[MechAg94]

This guy thinks the solution to violence is to outlaw targets shaped like humans...

http://lancasteronline.com/news/local/pa-lawmaker-seeks-to-ban-human-silhouette-targets/article_b8249d6c-9bf6-11e4-a97b-539a1318bad9.html

I'm at a loss for words...

Sometimes I wonder if the politicians don't really believe this crap, but they are anti-gun and want to keep a steady barrage of anti-gun stuff that the NRA and others will have to fight.

But then there is the old saying of not assigning to conspriacy or strategy what can more easily be assigned to stupidity (which defines anti-gunners quite a bit).

[MechAg94]

Then you have this:

http://news.yahoo.com/outrage-south-florida-police-black-mugshots-targets-051633498.html

On this I notice the article never actually said that ONLY black mug shots were used, just that apparently at least some were. 

In general, I like the idea of realistic target training, but for a police sharpshooter I am not sure pictures of actual local people is wise (military and police training are not the same).  I can foresee two scenarios:  1) police shoot a guy who was one who had his picture shot and the lawyer claim the police were trigger happy because they were "trained" to shoot him specifically, and 2) the tragic possibilty that the police shoot a person not involved due to the training and the person's bad luck to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. 

I guess the question is:  Do you think an officer might be more inclined to shoot instinctively or without thinking if he happened to put his crosshairs over a familiar target?

[TechMan]

Paging Revdisk.

[RevDisk]

He represents part of the Philly sprawl. As for how likely he is to get this passed, I'll mention he's been in office for twenty plus years and his only committee is Tourism & Recreational Development. He also wants to push a mandatory body camera law for LE.

Chances are nill of it passing. Or surviving the first court it touches.

http://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/Legis/CSM/showMemoPublic.cfm?chamber=H&SPick=20150&cosponId=16489

[bedlamite]

I'd much rather ban lawmakers.

[brimic]

On this I notice the article never actually said that ONLY black mug shots were used, just that apparently at least some were. 

In general, I like the idea of realistic target training, but for a police sharpshooter I am not sure pictures of actual local people is wise (military and police training are not the same).  I can foresee two scenarios:  1) police shoot a guy who was one who had his picture shot and the lawyer claim the police were trigger happy because they were "trained" to shoot him specifically, and 2) the tragic possibilty that the police shoot a person not involved due to the training and the person's bad luck to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. 

I guess the question is:  Do you think an officer might be more inclined to shoot instinctively or without thinking if he happened to put his crosshairs over a familiar target?

If the guy in the mug shot is in prison, he really shouldn't be concerned about being shot by a police marksman.
if putting pictures of trayvons and browns on shooting targets helps prevent one vad shoot, its worth it- political correctness be damned.

[wmenorr67]

I saw the story about the mug shots on the news and one of the individuals had already served his time.  The other thing is just because you have been arrested and a mug shot taken doesn't mean you are guilty. 

[RevDisk]

On this I notice the article never actually said that ONLY black mug shots were used, just that apparently at least some were. 

In general, I like the idea of realistic target training, but for a police sharpshooter I am not sure pictures of actual local people is wise (military and police training are not the same).  I can foresee two scenarios:  1) police shoot a guy who was one who had his picture shot and the lawyer claim the police were trigger happy because they were "trained" to shoot him specifically, and 2) the tragic possibilty that the police shoot a person not involved due to the training and the person's bad luck to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. 

I guess the question is:  Do you think an officer might be more inclined to shoot instinctively or without thinking if he happened to put his crosshairs over a familiar target?

Ayep.

It's lawyer bait. Either by law suit, or as a defense if the person ends up arrested by said police. It's also bad PR. There's plenty of stock photos folks can use, with no liability. I sure as hell would not want to live or work in that department's jurisdiction. Not directly because of the pictures of local persons, but the mind frame of any department that thought it was acceptable to use images of local persons for lethal training purposes.

Think of the flip side. If someone used photos of said police officers as targets for self defense classes, how would the department react? I significantly doubt they'd agree it was "good training".

[brimic]

Think of the flip side. If someone used photos of said police officers as targets for self defense classes, how would the department react? I significantly doubt they'd agree it was "good training".

That would be an epic Level 60 master troll thing to do.   

[MechAg94]

If the guy in the mug shot is in prison, he really shouldn't be concerned about being shot by a police marksman.
if putting pictures of trayvons and browns on shooting targets helps prevent one vad shoot, its worth it- political correctness be damned.

I wasn't addressing it as a matter of PC, but of practical issues for training versus real life situations.  I wouldn't want to have even the tiny risk of a bad shoot due to the officer seeing a familiary "target" in his scope. 

I am not sure live or realistic targets (beyond sillouettes or cartoons) is really necessary for police training. 

[wmenorr67]

Surprised that the Russians don't get upset because we call the pop up targets on the military qual ranges "Crazy Ivans."

[Firethorn]

I wasn't addressing it as a matter of PC, but of practical issues for training versus real life situations.  I wouldn't want to have even the tiny risk of a bad shoot due to the officer seeing a familiary "target" in his scope.

It'd limit the targets a bit, but I'd restrict the use of actual images to deceased individuals.

[KD5NRH]

I am not sure live or realistic targets (beyond sillouettes or cartoons) is really necessary for police training.

They just need to add their favorites;

 Proned out, motionless suspect.
 Innocent bystander.
 Air.
 Own finger.
 Etc.

[brimic]

They just need to add their favorites;

 Proned out, motionless suspect.
 Innocent bystander.
 Air.
 Own finger.
 Etc.

Cocker spaniels
Golden retrievers

[wmenorr67]

They just need to add their favorites;

 Proned out, motionless suspect.
 Innocent bystander.
 Air.
 Own finger.
 Etc.

Cars
Buildings
The ground

[Hawkmoon]

It'd limit the targets a bit, but I'd restrict the use of actual images to deceased individuals.

Can't we at least use Justin Beiber? And maybe Lindsay Lohan?

FWIW, hasn't it been illegal to shoot at human silhouettes for many years in Massachusetts?

[Tim L]

Cars
Buildings
The ground

Last, but not least, own foot and leg...

[RoadKingLarry]

Can't we at least use Justin Beiber? And maybe Lindsay Lohan?

FWIW, hasn't it been illegal to shoot at human silhouettes for many years in Massachusetts?

IIRC there are a couple of jurisdictions where it is illegal.

[Scout26]

Club I ran banned the use of human picture targets.  Simply because shooting at pictures of political figures, ex-spouses, and other real people could be frowned upon by local and Federal LE.

Zombie, Dinosaurs, Aliens, Military Silhouettes, IDPA/IPSC Silhouettes and like.  All good.   

[KD5NRH]

Club I ran banned the use of human picture targets.  Simply because shooting at pictures of political figures, ex-spouses, and other real people could be frowned upon by local and Federal LE.

Am I missing something here?

[RoadKingLarry]

Am I missing something here?

Front site , squeeze.

[Perd Hapley]

Front site , squeeze.

Grrr. "Sight."  "Sites" are on military-grade assault weapon ghost guns with 30-caliber clips, and shoulder things that go up.

[RoadKingLarry]

You and auto correct can bight me.