Question about Birthers.

[Perd Hapley]

I would like to know if I am a Birther.

I do not entertain doubts about You-know-who's birth or citizenship. But then I've never cared enough to start looking for the paperwork, so I have no reason to be certain about whether he is or is not.

However, I find myself having to point out that it is perfectly legitimate to ask about his citizenship and birth, just as people had similar doubts about John McCain (born in the Panama Canal Zone). It's not crazy or racist or silly, and there's nothing embarrassing about it.

Does that make me a Birther?

[AZRedhawk44]

I would like to know if I am a Birther.

I do not entertain doubts about You-know-who's birth or citizenship. But then I've never cared enough to start looking for the paperwork, so I have no reason to be certain about whether he is or is not.

However, I find myself having to point out that it is perfectly legitimate to ask about his citizenship and birth, just as people had similar doubts about John McCain (born in the Panama Canal Zone). It's not crazy or racist or silly, and there's nothing embarrassing about it.

Does that make me a Birther?

I'd add that Obama only had 1 parent that was a citizen, and it's questionable if they were married or not when he was born.

-----

However:

The BIGGEST damning issue to Obama's past is his association with the name Barry Soetero and any Indonesian Passports in that name.

If Obama/Soetero traveled under an Indonesian passport, or his University transcripts show him attending a previous school in Indonesia for which he's registered as Soetero and nationality of Indonesian, it would invalidate his claims to the Presidency.

That Indonesian passport and student history is the biggest issue, IMO.  If he ever claimed to be "Indonesian" then to my mind he renounced his citizenship, and needs to re-naturalize.  Which makes him ineligible to be President.

[HankB]

Hawaii? Kenya? I don't know. But in the eyes of some, simply pleading ignorance about BHO's actual place of birth - rather than adamantly insisting it was Hawaii without seeing any actual evidence - makes me a part of the lunatic fringe.

Again, I simply don't know. But the mere fact that it's still a topic for debate and NO evidence has been presented is bothersome.

Now, as AZRedhawk wrote, there are issues other than the place of his birth.

In addition to what AZR posted, consider that BHO supposedly traveled to Pakistan when he was around 20, at a time when US citizens were restricted from traveling there. I'd like to know:

1) DID he go to Pakistan?

2) Did he travel there on a US passport?

These questions have been raised. They have, to my knowledge, never been addressed, other than to condemn those who ask.

Why is that?

[Gowen]

Fistful, I don't think you are a birther.  If someone were to ask me about my citizenship, I would whip out my birth certificate.  Not good enough, they could check in my city of birth and find a copy.  End of story.  Why can the same be said for obama?  Honolulu was no more in the dark ages than Simi Valley Ca. 

I've never cared enough to look up any evidence and they only time I've ever seen any is when it was posted here.  I guess I'm a birther because I have doubts, but I'm not rabid over it.

[Battle Monkey of Zardoz]

In addition to what AZR posted, consider that BHO supposedly traveled to Pakistan when he was around 20, at a time when US citizens were restricted from traveling there. I'd like to know:

1) DID he go to Pakistan?

2) Did he travel there on a US passport?

These questions have been raised. They have, to my knowledge, never been addressed, other than to condemn those who ask.

Things that make ya go Hmm...guess I'm a birther. Because I want these questions answered

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

killjoy i am

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/passport.asp

[longeyes]

I'm a Dearther.  That means I decry the utter dearth of vital information about BHO available in the public records.

[Waitone]

Birther is one small subset of a much larger issue:  that is the complete absence of readily available information on BHO.  Information that should be available is mysteriously unavailable.  Then there is the law firm that has book >$1 million seeing to it relevant information on BHO is suppressed.

A little free association here
1.  suppressed information on a person's past is also known as being "sheep dipped"
2.  a new and created history is also known as creating a "legend"

Both 1 and 2 are done on long-term, deep penetration intelligence agents. 

[HankB]

killjoy i am

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/passport.asp

The snopes link asserts that travel to Pakistan by US passport holders wasn't actually illegal in 1981, but it doesn't confirm that BHO actually traveled there as the holder of a US passport at that time, only that he could have.

We still don't know if he actually had a US passport back then.

[Zardozimo Oprah Bannedalas]

I do not entertain doubts about You-know-who's birth or citizenship. But then I've never cared enough to start looking for the paperwork, so I have no reason to be certain about whether he is or is not.

He published this in '08:
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn227/Polarik/BO_Birth_Certificate.jpg

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

The snopes link asserts that travel to Pakistan by US passport holders wasn't actually illegal in 1981, but it doesn't confirm that BHO actually traveled there as the holder of a US passport at that time, only that he could have.

We still don't know if he actually had a US passport back then.

but we do know that much of what the birthers rave is definitively manure  ie "zomg you couldn't travel to pakistan on a us passport zomg" et al

[MechAg94]

but we do know that much of what the birthers rave is definitively manure  ie "zomg you couldn't travel to pakistan on a us passport zomg" et al

Yes, they make the same mistake a lot of conspiracy theorists make and include some BS, exaggeration, and half-truths with what little they actually know in order to make the issue seem bigger/worse than it is.  They seem to be oblivious of the fact that when most people find that they are wrong about one detail, they assume they are likely wrong about all the others.  

They still may not be as bad as the Ancient Aliens shows on the History Channel though.   

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

lol  touche

[geronimotwo]

this would make a great segment for leonard nimoy.

[kgbsquirrel]

He published this in '08:
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn227/Polarik/BO_Birth_Certificate.jpg

This is gonna be fun...
*pulls on the tinfoil beanie*

Here's something an exceptional investigative reporter turned up a couple years back...

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/9182/3899sghd82kn.jpg

And yes I've read the Snopes article (which by the way doesn't actually discount this registration form as fake) about this, that article however is incomplete. It only states that United States doesn't regard citizenship as being affected by picking up a dual citizenship, but it is mute however on the topic that Indonesia does not allow it's citizens dual citizenship, and only in July of 2006 did Indonesia make an exception for persons under 18 (1). By the by this document lists place of birth as Honolulu, kinda blows a hole in one argument while opening another: Did Obama renounce his U.S. citizenship in order to acquire Indonesian citizenship?

(1): http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_2052.html

Damn this cap is getting tight... *pries beanie off with a crowbar*

BTW, line four on that document is "Religion?"

[gunsmith]

I don't see how they faked news reports about his birth, I think the reason we "cant find" documents ( from drudge today http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvrb7YqdvxE ) is simple.
B.O and I were born in 1960- my original B.C listed me as Catholic ... I am willing to bet his listed him as Muslim.

Him travelling under another countries passport? imo a common tactic, many Americans travel on Irish passports when they are in the middle east so they don't get hassled.
I am not sure about the legality of it but its common enough, he faked being a citizen of another country. I used to be a lefty in the seventies/eighties, we thought stuff like that was "cool". Fake passports are awesome, I wish I had several, even though I am now Conservative I do wish I had real passports under fake names so I can escape after the fascist takeover the liberals have planned for us.  

[MechAg94]

B.O and I were born in 1960- my original B.C listed me as Catholic ... I am willing to bet his listed him as Muslim.

This and his college records are what I am curious about.  This is just an entertaining side show to me.