Author Topic: DOJ Civil Rights Division Insanity Will Lead to More Prisoners Contracting AIDS  (Read 28205 times)

roo_ster

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http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/columns/Justice-Department-fights-South-Carolina-over-efforts-against-AIDS-in-prisons-1008381-100224289.html

Points of fact:
1. A goodly proportion of inmates in prison have AIDS.
2. Other prisoners are at risk of getting AIDS due to the practice of prison rape.
3. South Carolina takes AIDS & prison rape serious as a heart attack, segregates AIDS-infected prisoners, and has only one documented case of AIDS via prison rape since 1998.
4. SC tests every new inmate and half of the HIV positive inmates did not know they were HIV positive.
5. SC then immediately begins treatment of every prisoner with AIDS to keep them healthy & alive.



Some folks don't take prison rape too seriously, thinking it just punishment for whatever offense landed the convict in prison. 

Others are of a different mind, thinking prison rape is heinous in and of itself and that the risk of getting AIDS via prison rape just too repugnant to remain sanguine about. 

There is a third group, the Obama/Holder Civil Rights Division of the DOJ, that thinks SC's segregating the AIDS-infected population stigmatizes them and has filed a lawsuit to stop the practice.

Regards,

roo_ster

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MechAg94

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This just seems typical of the Obama administration.  If you want to predict their moves, just think of the most common sense solution, then think of the opposite of it.  

I guess the other argument is "We can't let our prisoners get raped with out fear of AIDS!  That would be humane!!.....................uhh..I mean inhumane!!!"


I don't suppose that prison system has a program to try to prevent the prison rape itself?  
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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and the hep c is equally deadly and even more prevalent
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

MillCreek

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^^^^ A very good point, indeed.  I cannot recall where I read it, but one of the medical journals I follow had an article on the percentage of US prisoners with HIV vs. hepatitis C.  Hep C is way, way more common in the prison population. 
_____________
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Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
You are one lousy risk manager.

RaspberrySurprise

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Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't SC segregate these prisoners on the basis that they are a threat/danger to the other prisoners? If DOJ wins wouldn't  prisoners have a reasonably good case to have segregation for other dangers overturned?
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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^^^^ A very good point, indeed.  I cannot recall where I read it, but one of the medical journals I follow had an article on the percentage of US prisoners with HIV vs. hepatitis C.  Hep C is way, way more common in the prison population. 
i wanna say off the top of my head over 50%  i know in narcotics anonymous estimates are as high as 30% of folks have it
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

cassandra and sara's daddy

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and one thing "normal " folks might not ken is that the type of person who has the decision making skills that get you locked up is also capable of concluding that aids might get you compassionate parole, which should be called let you die outside so we don't have to pay the med costs parole. and thats real problematic
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

cassandra and sara's daddy

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i was high
http://www.annals.org/content/144/10/762.full.pdf

this says 20 some percent  one study claims 41 %
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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roo_ster

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i was high
http://www.annals.org/content/144/10/762.full.pdf

this says 20 some percent  one study claims 41 %
That is still a huge rate of infection.
Regards,

roo_ster

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cassandra and sara's daddy

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brother its hard to watch  i see guys  the very few who manage to turn their lives around croak 10 years clean with a new family from a shared needle 20 years earlier. lots of liver transplants and various cocktail treatments.  if you want a primer on whats current in treatment check out the na oldtimers  the few there are. the worst is the kids who suffer either by being infected through no fault of their own or the ones who lose parents.  makes ya mad sometimes and drives home the idea that actions have consequences
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

tyme

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I know it's common to use the terms HIV and AIDS interchangeably, but it still drives me crazy.

I do not understand why it is socially acceptable for anyone not to know his or her HIV/Hep/other STD status.  Anything that's easy to test for should be.  Segregation of prisons is the very least I would do if I were dictator for a day.  Mandatory public testing would be more like it.

This is not the early 20th century.  We have some really neat technology.  Why are so many people not taking advantage of it and instead playing ostrich (I know the ostrich head-in-sand thing is a myth but it's still a good metaphor)?  Is it psychological - fear of being HIV+?  Is it economic - can't pay for testing?  Is it simply that most people who are undiagnosed aren't aware that they're at at risk, and so we need better education?  http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/topics/surveillance/basic.htm    How the frell can this happen ???
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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some folks know they are positive and conceal it  others don't wanna know  a personal  don't ask don't tell me.
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

longeyes

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AIDS is a contagious terminal illness but, as I recall, the CDC years ago cited "privacy" reasons for not tracking those who might spread it.  Another inconvenient truth?
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Perd Hapley

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I do not understand why it is socially acceptable for anyone not to know his or her HIV/Hep/other STD status.  Anything that's easy to test for should be.  

Ignoring for the moment the oddity of hearing certain people call for social stigma, what if I have never had a blood transfusion, used illegal drugs or fornicated, nor have I slept or shared needles with anyone who has?  Is that good enough for you?  ???

As for the DOJ's concern that HIV-positive prisoners might be stigmatized, why shouldn't they be?  ???
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BMacklem

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What I really want to see them justify is those who are hardened criminals who rape and are then eventually released to become recidivists, and spread what they caught in prison to some innocents out in the real world.
I like how it's put in the article about "They're criminals, they're supposed to be punished".

Hawkmoon

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Ignoring for the moment the oddity of hearing certain people call for social stigma, what if I have never had a blood transfusion, used illegal drugs or fornicated, nor have I slept or shared needles with anyone who has?  Is that good enough for you?  ???

As for the DOJ's concern that HIV-positive prisoners might be stigmatized, why shouldn't they be?  ???

A bunch of veterans were infected with some nasty stuff about two years ago because the VA hospitals (not all of them, but ... plural) were not properly sterilizing the equipment between colonoscopies.

And just recently, several OTHER VA hospitals managed to infect a whole 'nother bunch of veterans with some other nasty stuff because they weren't properly sterilizing dental instruments.

Nobody is safe. Being alive is a life-threatening condition.
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Headless Thompson Gunner

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Ignoring for the moment the oddity of hearing certain people call for social stigma, what if I have never had a blood transfusion, used illegal drugs or fornicated, nor have I slept or shared needles with anyone who has?  Is that good enough for you?  ???

Ayup.  I don't need any tests to be certain that I don't have HIV.  Of course, I should probably be forcibly tested anyway.

Anyone wanna wager how long before our dysfunctional country actually does implement some sort of involuntary medical testing?

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Some of the craziness comes from attempts to apply non-prison-world scenarios to the world of prisons.  For instance, HIPAA rules say I cannot release, even by accident or inuendo, personal health information about which infectious/contagious diseases you have.  Fine in the free world, but how do I deal with someone with contagious TB, let along HepC or HIV/AIDS?

Ever try to explain why inmate X cannot be assigned to any job in the kitchen, the wastewater plant, or the food bank warehouse without disclosing that he has a disease that can/will be transmitted by contact with stuff that comes near your mouth on its way to your insides?  Or why inmate Y must be kept in a postive-atmospheric-pressure, must-wear-special-protective-gowns-&-masks-to-enter cell on the hospital ward without actually saying he has TB?

And if you get creative and use inmate disciplinary procedures to "justify" their assignment to segregation, they lose the ability to accumulate good-time credits and a chance at a job that might provide them with both some meager income ($0.27 - $0.35/hr for a max of 5 hours a day) but really gives them something to do besides plot how yo screw with the prison system and its employees.  And the DOJ says that is unconstitutional because it violates their civil rights.

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Perd Hapley

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Is it possible I have AIDS?  Sure.  About the same chance I have a hundred other life-threatening, communicable diseases, I guess.

I do not understand why it is socially acceptable for anyone not to know his or her HIV/Hep/other STD status.  Anything that's easy to test for should be. 

I'm still stumped by this.  It is also easy to avoid needley-type drugs and sex outside of marriage.  Maybe these things should also be socially unacceptable.
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tyme

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The problem with that is a lot of people who are undiagnosed HIV carriers would say the exact same thing about why they don't need to be tested.  The only way to be sure is to test everyone.  What is the problem with that?  I hate needles and I'd have no problem with mandatory testing.  Benefits to society far outweigh the minor annoyance to me.  I also hate the idea of the government having databases on people for any reason, but this is one case where I'm willing to make an exception.  Privacy my ass.  Tell that to the 40k+ newly infected HIV patients every year.  It's certainly not fair to them to continue with the status quo.

If there is any public threat that we should be fighting a "war" against, it's the few serious, widespread, detectable, treatable infectious diseases we know about.

Ignoring for the moment the oddity of hearing certain people call for social stigma, what if I have never had a blood transfusion, used illegal drugs or fornicated, nor have I slept or shared needles with anyone who has?  Is that good enough for you?  ???
Then you are at so little risk that for all practical purposes you know your HIV status without being tested.  But being tested won't hurt you.  See the first paragraph above.  You are aware that HIV does not discriminate against the unmarried, right?

I was not trying to make an overly complex statement there with the "socially acceptable" comment.  I simply do not think it's acceptable that 200k (CDC estimate) people in the U.S. are living with HIV and don't know it.  If you have a better idea than mandatory testing I'm all ears.  I would much prefer that people who had any inkling that they might be at risk would go get tested tomorrow.  Since that isn't happening, I'm in favor of mandatory testing.  Any of those 200k people could be in marriages spreading HIV to their spouses for all you know.

Assuming the number of psychopaths with HIV is within epsilon of 0, no public outings are necessary (someone might leak the government database at some point but there's not much that can be done about that).  Mandatory testing and informing everyone of their HIV status should cut the accidental infection rate to zero.  If that does not drop the rate of new HIV infections to near zero (it's roughly 40-50k per year), it's because of jackasses intentionally or negligently spreading HIV, and they need to be quarantined (I think we call it prison).
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MicroBalrog

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As for the DOJ's concern that HIV-positive prisoners might be stigmatized, why shouldn't they be?  ???

Why should people who have a deadly disease be stigmatized?

Remember: you can contracT HIV by being bitten by an HIV-positive person. Or raped. Or even born with it.

Why should a person who has been born with HIV be stigmatized? Is it his/her fault somehow?
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CNYCacher

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The problem with that is a lot of people who are undiagnosed HIV carriers would say the exact same thing about why they don't need to be tested. 

That is a failure of logic.  You can't select undiagnosed carriers, ask them why they think they aren't infected, and then select whoever has that same opinion and view them as suspected carriers.
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AmbulanceDriver

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The problem with that is a lot of people who are undiagnosed HIV carriers would say the exact same thing about why they don't need to be tested.  The only way to be sure is to test everyone.  What is the problem with that?  I hate needles and I'd have no problem with mandatory testing.  Benefits to society far outweigh the minor annoyance to me.  I also hate the idea of the government having databases on people for any reason, but this is one case where I'm willing to make an exception.  Privacy my ass.  Tell that to the 40k+ newly infected HIV patients every year.  It's certainly not fair to them to continue with the status quo.

If there is any public threat that we should be fighting a "war" against, it's the few serious, widespread, detectable, treatable infectious diseases we know about.
Then you are at so little risk that for all practical purposes you know your HIV status without being tested.  But being tested won't hurt you.  See the first paragraph above.  You are aware that HIV does not discriminate against the unmarried, right?

I was not trying to make an overly complex statement there with the "socially acceptable" comment.  I simply do not think it's acceptable that 200k (CDC estimate) people in the U.S. are living with HIV and don't know it.  If you have a better idea than mandatory testing I'm all ears.  I would much prefer that people who had any inkling that they might be at risk would go get tested tomorrow.  Since that isn't happening, I'm in favor of mandatory testing.  Any of those 200k people could be in marriages spreading HIV to their spouses for all you know.

Assuming the number of psychopaths with HIV is within epsilon of 0, no public outings are necessary (someone might leak the government database at some point but there's not much that can be done about that).  Mandatory testing and informing everyone of their HIV status should cut the accidental infection rate to zero.  If that does not drop the rate of new HIV infections to near zero (it's roughly 40-50k per year), it's because of jackasses intentionally or negligently spreading HIV, and they need to be quarantined (I think we call it prison).

Alright.  I'm in healthcare, and yeah, I agree that HIV/HepC/TB/never-get-overs-of-the-day are all *really* bad things.

HOWEVER.

I will never agree to mandatory testing for everyone. 

And while I do agree that you make some excellent points, Tyme, I'm gonna say that you're wrong.  I believe it's Benjamin Franklin's words that sum it up best:  "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety deserve neither Liberty nor Safety".  I think that applies in this scenario.  Yes, I agree that HIV/AIDS is a Bad Thing...  But that doesn't mean that I'm willing to force people to take a risk (Yes, a blood test is a risk...  It's a small risk, but it's a risk nonetheless.) in order that we may have a "benefit to society".

And just so we're clear, the examples of the VA are only some of the risks associated with blood tests.  Lets say someone decided to "save the gov't a little money" while doing all this testing and started re-using needles.  Or better yet, lets skip the hypotheticals and go right to the physical risks of venipuncture, starting at minor and working our way up to major:  inflammation/bruising; excessive bleeding; infection (depending on the infectious agent, this can be very minor all the way up to fatal); tendon/ligament damage; nerve damage (to include numbness/decreased sensation up to paralysis below the venipuncture site).

So no.  I'm not willing to say that everyone in the country (300+ million people) has to undergo a risk just so that a relatively small minority of the population (40,000/year, per your numbers) can avoid an infection.  Especially when I wonder what percentage of those new infections is self-inflicted due to high-risk behavior.
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RaspberrySurprise

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Why should people who have a deadly disease be stigmatized?

Remember: you can contracT HIV by being bitten by an HIV-positive person. Or raped. Or even born with it.

Why should a person who has been born with HIV be stigmatized? Is it his/her fault somehow?

In the US at least, HIV still has a bit of "gay disase" stigma attached to it and that no "good" person would ever have or worry about having HIV.
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roo_ster

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Why should people who have a deadly disease be stigmatized?

Remember: you can contracT HIV by being bitten by an HIV-positive person. Or raped. Or even born with it.

Why should a person who has been born with HIV be stigmatized? Is it his/her fault somehow?

You are not asking the proper question in the proper context, which is, "Why should HIV+ prisoners be stigmatized?"

That whole "prisoner" deal is very important to the OP and to the question asked above.

Ayup.  I don't need any tests to be certain that I don't have HIV.  Of course, I should probably be forcibly tested anyway.

Anyone wanna wager how long before our dysfunctional country actually does implement some sort of involuntary medical testing?

Mandatory testing may be required for other infectious diseases, but will never be implemented for diseases that are considered to be largely prevalent in the homosexual community.

This debate has occurred before, when AIDS first become news.  Up till then, STDs were tracked down by questioning those who came down with them and going after their sexual partners.  But, not with AIDS.
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roo_ster

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