Four dead in mass shooting at military facilities in Tennessee

[Battle Monkey of Zardoz]

Until we as a country decide to eradicate Islam, topics like this is pointless. Islam has not, will not progress as a religion. If we do anything right now that would make a difference tomorrow I submit that .mil immediately allow any service member that has a current CCW to carry at work if they choose, in states that have constitutional carry, let them carry. PERIOD.

Soldiers not being able to carry is stupid. It goes back farther than I can remember. As an MP, later  criminal investigator when I was in, I was authorized to carry my issued weapon anywhere. When in W Germany, I had, for lack of a better term, a permit from the Army. My weapons card stayed with me, and on the reverse in German and English stated the person on this card is authorized to carry the listed weapon anywhere in W Germany. All MPI and CID had this. I mention this because there was a system in place then, in the 80s and 90s. So it should not be too damn hard for .mil to quickly make policy that allows for service members to carry per state laws. In states that have no CCW, allow NCOs to be armed, E5/E6 and above. And if this doesn't happen for christ sake put in a weapons locker inside recruiting offices with quick access for these guys. I don't like the weapons locker idea, it's better than nothing.

[roo_ster]

But if we let military folk carry loaded weapons all willy-nilly, there might be a ND and some officer might get a poor rating.  Better four...

2009 – Fort Hood, 13 killed, 29 wounded–many permanently disabled
2009 – Arkansas recruiting station, one killed, a second wounded
2010 – Pentagon shooting by a 9/11 truther, two wounded
2013 – Washington Navy Yard shooting, 13 killed, three injured
2014 – Norfolk Naval Base, one killed
2014 – Fort Hood AGAIN–three killed, 14 injured
2015 – Chattanooga, 4 Marines at the Navy Operational Support Center and Marine Corps Reserve Center killed, two others wounded at a local recruiting station

...uh, seven, er, eight, um (carry the one) twenty-one, twenty-two, THIRTY-FIVE military folks get murdered than one officer's evaluation get dinged.

Because every time an officer gets a ding because one of his men has a ND, God kills a kitten.  THINK ABOUT THE KITTENS1111!!!!.

[Balog]

The disarming of soldiers on base IIRC happened under the first Bush.

Clinton actually.

[TommyGunn]

Clinton actually.

Dunno ...
I was listening to a talk-radio program while eating breakfast this morning and while I do recall Clinton passing some EO about soldiers not carrying guns, a caller phoned in who'd served back in the 1960s and stated that even then, as a soldier you just did not walk around the base, or the local town/city/whatever with a 1911 strapped to your hip. 
I think some degree of military disarmament has been standard for way longer than Clinton or Bush.

[Balog]

https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2015/07/16/statement-president-occasion-eid-ul-fitr

Good to see FBHO's priorities are in order.

[Perd Hapley]

On the topic of who started the disarmament, perhaps there is a difference between the policies of individual bases, and the rules of the branches, and units within those branches, versus top-down, military-wide policies imposed by a presidential administration.

As far as eradicating Islam, good luck with that.

[dogmush]

As far as eradicating Islam, good luck with that.

That's what the Druids said.

[RocketMan]

Clinton actually.

That policy is absolutely ancient.  We were not allowed to carry on base in the '70s, either duty or personal weapons.  I'm sure it even predates that period.

[RocketMan]

When the shooter is white and spouts racist and southern ideology, we must race to blame mental illness while simultaneously accusing the media of unfairly tarring the confederate flag and its admirers.

When the shooter is brown and spouts Islamic radical ideology, we must race to immediately blame Islam and all cultures vaguely connected to it.  Mental illness or personal factors are just media bias.

This is because white racism is somehow different from Islamic radicalism.  Key difference being that whites, southerners and gun owners are targeted when hysteria about racism goes wild.

De Selby, folks are getting real tired of cleaning up your mess each time you waltz in here and rhetorically piss on the carpet.

[wmenorr67]

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/nov/11/end-clinton-era-military-base-gun-ban/

It was Clinton that ended it but more so he enhanced the policy.  I was in beginning in 88 and got out in 93, and I remember not being able to have my POW at Carson.

Maybe before Clinton it was more of a post commander's decision.

Myself being in the Guard I can CCW or OC here in Oklahoma while not in uniform as long as I follow state and local laws.  There are a lot of us that have our CCW and to be honest a lot of us ignore the policy about being armed in uniform.  Kind of an out of sight, out of mind policy, just don't be stupid.

[lee n. field]

I like to blame Muslims for contemporary country music and the dearth of Johnny Cash, Waylon Jennings, Willie Nelson, and Hank Williams Sr. on the radio.  And Hormel Chili.

So, you blame Mulsims and Hormel Chili for that list, or you blame Muslims for your list including Hormel Chili?

I'd be OK with it either way.

[roo_ster]

So, you blame Mulsims and Hormel Chili for that list, or you blame Muslims for your list including Hormel Chili?

I'd be OK with it either way.

In the spirit of blaming things on Muslims, the Muslims shoulder the entire burden.  To include the availability of Hormel Chili.  Hormel Chili is innocent of all wrongdoing, save impersonation of chili.

[Balog]

Stupid bitch. 

[Scout26]

Ever notice that there is no mention of Catholics becoming "Radicalized", or Lutherans, Protestants, Buddhists, Jews, or even Hindus...

Funny that...

[makattak]

Stupid bitch. 

I notice any posts from more recently than 10 days ago are missing from her timeline now.

[Scout26]

The point was that we seem to be happy with group blame, ie, collective guilt when it's other groups.  And there's always some justification like "but they actually ARE part of a billion person conspiracy and we are not!"

Much gnashing of teeth follows from even the mere suggestion that how you are behaving towards Muslims is how liberals behave towards you.  But the facts are there.  I don't need to cite hyperbole about conservative memes, lack of all rational thought, or add in anything else personal to make the point.

 In a very simple, couple of sentence comparison to Roof (not named in my posts to now), you understood exactly what I meant.  That says something.

Edit:  to be crystal clear, the point I am making is that you shouldn't try to make all Muslims responsible for this, just like you shouldn't be held responsible for the actions of crazed gun toting racists.  Not the other way round.

I have sooooooo wanted to use one of these:

[Phyphor]

Stupid bitch. 

I'm dumber for having read that.

[MillCreek]

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/chattanooga-shooting/chattanooga-shooting-attacker-had-least-three-guns-authorities-say-n394046

A law enforcement official told NBC News says the three weapons that Abdulazziz had were an AK-47-type assault rifle, a 12-gauge shotgun, and a 9 mm pistol.

Perhaps he got lost on his way to a three-gun match competition.

[Perd Hapley]

I thought De Selby (note I'm calling him De Selby) might like to know that the Fox News hourly newsbreak guy on the radio this afternoon said Islam was to blame investigators are still searching for a motive.

[SADShooter]

I thought De Selby (note I'm calling him De Selby) might like to know that the Fox News hourly newsbreak guy on the radio this afternoon said Islam was to blame investigators are still searching for a motive.
[/quote

I suspect he longed so desperately for the pluralistic freedom and cultural diversity of his native Kuwait, and was so heartbroken by being trapped in the bellicose and repressive United States, he just snapped.

[Angel Eyes]

Some folks have decided the recruiting offices need additional protection:

http://www.myfoxatlanta.com/story/29572644/hiram-watch

[Scout26]

Don't get me wrong, but I think things are out of whack.  I think that's it's absolutely terrible that four Marines were killed. 

Yet, For all the money we've spent on monitoring communications in the US, we have another instance of some "radicalized" nutjob getting all shootie, and the investigating authorities have promised to leave no stone unturned to find out "why".  They should be able to quickly replay the tapes and know the "why".

Also, I caught part of the news conference.  Maybe it was the parade of officials to include the BATFEIO, or perhaps the US District Attorney that said it was "A Terrorist" investigation, which was the highest level of investigation or somesuch and that they would spare no expense to investigate.  (Umm, hey there Sparky, but the shooter is dead.  Good idea to find who he associated with and the like, but otherwise not much to investigate. )

Now, there are driveby shootings like this in Chicago every weekend.  One, two, three, four, five or more people being killed, yet the FBI, BATFEIO, et al aren't drug into those investigations.   And of the pathetic number of arrests made, how many are for "Felon in Possession" ??  And of that pathetic number how many are actually convicted of FIP and sent away to serve long, long terms ? Anybody? Anybody? Bueller?

It just struck me that we've really gone through the looking glass.   It would appear that our security theater is complete.  The .gov is no longer concerned with protecting the people.  It's concerned with protecting the .gov and ordinary people getting killed are just "Little things" that are an inconvenience on their way to building better worlds.

[Battle Monkey of Zardoz]

Don't get me wrong, but I think things are out of whack.  I think that's it's absolutely terrible that four Marines were killed. 

Yet, For all the money we've spent on monitoring communications in the US, we have another instance of some "radicalized" nutjob getting all shootie, and the investigating authorities have promised to leave no stone unturned to find out "why".  They should be able to quickly replay the tapes and know the "why".

Also, I caught part of the news conference.  Maybe it was the parade of officials to include the BATFEIO, or perhaps the US District Attorney that said it was "A Terrorist" investigation, which was the highest level of investigation or somesuch and that they would spare no expense to investigate.  (Umm, hey there Sparky, but the shooter is dead.  Good idea to find who he associated with and the like, but otherwise not much to investigate. )

Now, there are driveby shootings like this in Chicago every weekend.  One, two, three, four, five or more people being killed, yet the FBI, BATFEIO, et al aren't drug into those investigations.   And of the pathetic number of arrests made, how many are for "Felon in Possession" ??  And of that pathetic number how many are actually convicted of FIP and sent away to serve long, long terms ? Anybody? Anybody? Bueller?

It just struck me that we've really gone through the looking glass.   It would appear that our security theater is complete.  The .gov is no longer concerned with protecting the people.  It's concerned with protecting the .gov and ordinary people getting killed are just "Little things" that are an inconvenience on their way to building better worlds.

Well said.

[vaskidmark]

How would APSers reconcile military personnel being armed (duty issue weapons) while in uniform/on duty with the philosophical aversion of an armed standing army wandering around off base?

Has the threat level reached the equivalent of, for instance, Israel, where they carry their duty weapons (but with no magazine inserted)?  Are we going to turn our troops loose to deal with the (organized?) criminal element, side by side with the civilian police, like Mexico?

If the threat level is sufficiently high I do not think .mil personnel should have to shoulder the cost of arming themselves while on duty.  Once they are off duty the game changes to be more like you or I carrying for self defense.

stay safe.

[brimic]

How would APSers reconcile military personnel being armed (duty issue weapons) while in uniform/on duty with the philosophical aversion of an armed standing army wandering around off base?

Has the threat level reached the equivalent of, for instance, Israel, where they carry their duty weapons (but with no magazine inserted)?  Are we going to turn our troops loose to deal with the (organized?) criminal element, side by side with the civilian police, like Mexico?

If the threat level is sufficiently high I do not think .mil personnel should have to shoulder the cost of arming themselves while on duty.  Once they are off duty the game changes to be more like you or I carrying for self defense.

stay safe.

Concealed means concealed.