Author Topic: Why Ron Paul Scares the GOP  (Read 22338 times)

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Why Ron Paul Scares the GOP
« Reply #25 on: March 27, 2008, 04:56:04 PM »
" He refuses to vote for unbalanced budgets, and he has opposed spending taxpayer dollars on Congressional Medals of Honor, even for Rosa Parks or Pope John Paul II. "

when did either of them serve in the us armed forces?  or is the paulista confused with the freedom medal...
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Perd Hapley

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Re: Why Ron Paul Scares the GOP
« Reply #26 on: March 27, 2008, 05:33:53 PM »
Quote
"Restoring this great country to it's Christian basis, as intended by the Founding Fathers," or some such.  What I saw was a clear violation of the First Amendment.


You realize that has no connection whatsoever with the First Amendment, right?  Huh?  If it means anything at all. 
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Bigjake

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Re: Why Ron Paul Scares the GOP
« Reply #27 on: March 27, 2008, 06:19:25 PM »
It is not Ron Paul, but Ron Paul voters that scare this GOPer.

They are lazy, slovenly, do not pick up trash in their yards and do not put away their garbage toter in a timely manner.  Every RP voter that I have met or have seen a Ron Paul sign in their front lawn has been a slob, a big slob.

I could take a day off work with my digi cam and run out of CF card space before I managed to photograph all of the rat holes around here that have Paul signs in the front yard.

erictank

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Re: Why Ron Paul Scares the GOP
« Reply #28 on: March 27, 2008, 07:46:22 PM »
Quote
"Restoring this great country to it's Christian basis, as intended by the Founding Fathers," or some such.  What I saw was a clear violation of the First Amendment.


You realize that has no connection whatsoever with the First Amendment, right?  Huh?  If it means anything at all. 

Appropriate section of the First Amendment: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;"

How does planning to run the country according to "it's Christian basis, as intended by the Founding Fathers," NOT qualify as a violation?  Seems like a clear cut violation of both the Establishment Clause AND the Free Exercise Clause to me.

There's a LOT in their platform that I can agree with, and plenty that I am neutral on.  However, continued references to the "Christian origin of our nation" and the "Biblical foundations" of our country raise my hackles.  From their current platform:

(Preamble) "This great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. "
"The goal of the Constitution Party is to restore American jurisprudence to its Biblical foundations ..."
"The U.S. Constitution established a Republic rooted in Biblical law, ..."

(Sanctity Of Life) "The pre-born child, whose life begins at fertilization, is a human being created in God's image."  (Note: I further disagree with this entire section as being any business of a civil government - I'm trying to stay focused on the religious aspects, which I find most inappropriate for a civil government, or an organization seeking power in same)

(Education) "All teaching is related to basic assumptions about God and man. Education as a whole, therefore, cannot be separated from religious faith. The law of our Creator assigns the authority and responsibility of educating children to their parents."

(Family) "The law of our Creator defines marriage as the union between one man and one woman. The marriage covenant is the foundation of the family, and the family is fundamental in the maintenance of a stable, healthy and prosperous social order. No government may legitimately authorize or define marriage or family relations contrary to what God has instituted. "
"[We] affirm the rights of states and localities to proscribe offensive sexual behavior."

(Gambling) "Gambling promotes an increase in crime, destruction of family values, and a decline in the moral fiber of our country. "

(The Judiciary) "We particularly support all the legislation which would remove from Federal appellate review jurisdiction matters involving acknowledgement of God as the sovereign source of law, liberty, or government."

(Pornography (entire section)) "Pornography, at best, is a distortion of the true nature of sex created by God for the procreative union between one man and one woman in the holy bonds of matrimony, and at worst, is a destructive element of society resulting in significant and real emotional, physical, spiritual and financial costs to individuals, families and communities. We call on our local, state and federal governments to uphold our cherished First Amendment right to free speech by vigorously enforcing our laws against obscenity to maintain a degree of separation between that which is truly speech and that which only seeks to distort and destroy.

With the advent of the Internet and the benevolent neglect of the previous administrations, the pornography industry enjoyed uninhibited growth and expansion until the point today that we live in a sex-saturated society where almost nothing remains untainted by its perversion. While we believe in the responsibility of the individual and corporate entities to regulate themselves, we also believe that our collective representative body we call government plays a vital role in establishing and maintaining the highest level of decency in our community standards."

The section on Welfare skates close to the edge, IMO, but not over the line, as it deals more with the message that can be learned from Christian teachings and the Bible on charity, rather than proposal of imposition of religiously-themed restrictions on people.

Ironically, I have no quibbles whatsoever with ANYTHING they say in the section on Religious Freedom.  Wish the rest of the platform was as good, religiously-speaking.

Does that articulate my concerns any better for you, Fistful? 

Because of their religious-themed imposition of "moral correctness" on matters which are no one's legitimate concern but those personally involved, and their continued insistence that our nation and government are "properly" Christian in nature, I cannot in good conscience support the so-called Constitution Party.  A pity, as it seems like it's run by Christian-fundamentalist versions of Ron Paul, from a pass through their platform.

Don't misunderstand me - you want to be a Christian, even an evangelical Christian?  You - personally - go right ahead.  When my GOVERNMENT wants to be Christian (Jewish/Muslim/Zoroastrian/insert-religion-of-choice), or when someone wanting to become said government does so, THAT'S when I start to get a little nervous. 

erictank

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Re: Why Ron Paul Scares the GOP
« Reply #29 on: March 27, 2008, 07:56:23 PM »
It is not Ron Paul, but Ron Paul voters that scare this GOPer.

They are lazy, slovenly, do not pick up trash in their yards and do not put away their garbage toter in a timely manner.  Every RP voter that I have met or have seen a Ron Paul sign in their front lawn has been a slob, a big slob.

I am terrified that they believe that freedom is either license or an excuse to go supine on their mom's couch in the basement and eat cheetoes all day while others work.

The cure for Ron Paulism is an alarm clock so they can get jobs and have Dad give them a garbage bag and stop living in *expletive deleted*it.

THIS Ron Paul voter served as a Naval reactor operator for 6 years, did the same job in the civilian-power field for 8 more, and currently works to provide clean drinking water to a major metro area.  Not exactly the kind of jobs where they hire the sort of dirtbags you've so charitably referred to me as.  Think about that the next time you turn on your lights (and they go on, and STAY on), or pour yourself a glass of water (and you don't contract cholera or giardiasis).

Armed POLITE Society?   rolleyes

Finch

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Re: Why Ron Paul Scares the GOP
« Reply #30 on: March 28, 2008, 01:34:00 AM »
It is not Ron Paul, but Ron Paul voters that scare this GOPer.

They are lazy, slovenly, do not pick up trash in their yards and do not put away their garbage toter in a timely manner.  Every RP voter that I have met or have seen a Ron Paul sign in their front lawn has been a slob, a big slob.

I am terrified that they believe that freedom is either license or an excuse to go supine on their mom's couch in the basement and eat cheetoes all day while others work.

The cure for Ron Paulism is an alarm clock so they can get jobs and have Dad give them a garbage bag and stop living in *expletive deleted*it.

THIS Ron Paul voter served as a Naval reactor operator for 6 years, did the same job in the civilian-power field for 8 more, and currently works to provide clean drinking water to a major metro area.  Not exactly the kind of jobs where they hire the sort of dirtbags you've so charitably referred to me as.  Think about that the next time you turn on your lights (and they go on, and STAY on), or pour yourself a glass of water (and you don't contract cholera or giardiasis).

Armed POLITE Society?   rolleyes

Hey Hey now, that doesn't matter. If it doesn't fit in with their ultimate agenda, then you best be on your way. I work 50 hours a week and go to college full time. I live on my own and take my own trash out. I'm not that fond of Cheeto's either. But that doesn't fit in with the usual Paul supporter bashing here. They would rather take the few people that they have seen acting irrationally and use them to stereotype the majority of Paul supporters over taking the logical point of view. If you don't support useless wars and intentional currency destruction then you are a kook in a Wookie costume.  rolleyes
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seeker_two

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Re: Why Ron Paul Scares the GOP
« Reply #31 on: March 28, 2008, 01:36:45 AM »
I voted Constitution Party in the last presidential election.....and I may do so again (though Wayne A Root looks like a good option too).

Their platform is closest to my beliefs and positions....and, if the GOP wants my vote back, they'll know where to come.....

As for Christian values & government...as long as they don't demand everyone convert to Christianity, I'm OK with them using that standard--instead of the lack of standards being used now. What value system would you prefer government use?
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El Tejon

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Re: Why Ron Paul Scares the GOP
« Reply #32 on: March 28, 2008, 02:57:05 AM »
The perception problem of Ron Paul voters (which is vital because we are discussing politics) hurt him tremendously.  Every Ron Paul sign that I have see has been in front of a rat hole, including one in my own neighborhood.  Obviously I do not appreciate how these people live and impact my property, thus that reflects negatively on Ron Paul.

I have not seen every property that hosts a Ron Paul sign so there very well may be squared away properties which host Ron Paul signs, but I have yet to see them.  All I see are rat holes that infuriate me.  The RP rathole in my neighborhood the Cheetoe-Eater refuses to return his garbage toter to inside his garage.  I walked to up to his garage and saw nothing but Mountain Dew and beer cans and Cheetoe bags along the side of the house.  I knocked on the door, no response despite the television being on.  I picked everything up along the side of the house and left in disgust.

I asked on THR for one photo of a squared away property with a Ron Paul sign.  I waited a looooong time before someone posted a photo of a house with unshoveled walks and the incorrect house numbers.

Ron Paul voters want license, not the freedom, as freedom demands duty and license does not.
I do not smoke pot, wear Wookie suits, live in my mom's basement, collect unemployment checks or eat Cheetoes, therefore I am not a Ron Paul voter.

Silver Bullet

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Re: Why Ron Paul Scares the GOP
« Reply #33 on: March 28, 2008, 05:51:30 AM »
Quote
They are lazy, slovenly, do not pick up trash in their yards and do not put away their garbage toter in a timely manner.  Every RP voter that I have met or have seen a Ron Paul sign in their front lawn has been a slob, a big slob.

I am terrified that they believe that freedom is either license or an excuse to go supine on their mom's couch in the basement and eat cheetoes all day while others work.

You need to get your lies straight.  If the voters you saw are living in their moms basement, then it sounds like theyre not the home owners and are not responsible for the condition of the yard.  Pick one story or the other and try to stick with it !

This is the most fun primary ever !  grin And the best part is yet to come.  In two years when things go in the tank, the hysterical anti-Pauls are going to have to come to grips that they voted against the most qualified candidate solely because they didnt like the attitude of a minority of the pro-Paul folks.  The title of this thread almost has it right; it isnt the GOP party members who are scared by Paul, its some of the GOP voters.   laugh

 

Manedwolf

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Re: Why Ron Paul Scares the GOP
« Reply #34 on: March 28, 2008, 05:54:17 AM »
My most lasting image of Paul voters is a large group of people on a Manchester streetcorner, all holding up Paul signs, all screaming that 9/11 was an inside job.


Silver Bullet

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Re: Why Ron Paul Scares the GOP
« Reply #35 on: March 28, 2008, 06:27:01 AM »
Quote
My most lasting image of Paul voters is a large group of people on a Manchester streetcorner, all holding up Paul signs, all screaming that 9/11 was an inside job.

That would leave a bad taste, I admit.

Maybe they were secretly McCain voters trying to drive you away from Paul ?   smiley  Yeah, that's it !  I'll get those guys.   angry

 laugh

My experience is different.  All of the Paul signs I've seen have been in perfectly respectable neighborhoods with well kept yards.  More telling, I don't remember seeing any other candidate's signs until just recently I've seen a few signs for Obama.  I didn't see any McCain, Romney, Hillary, Edwards, ... etc., at all !  Just Paul.  I've probably seen 40 or 50 Paul signs, including one huge one outside a shooting range.

roo_ster

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Re: Why Ron Paul Scares the GOP
« Reply #36 on: March 28, 2008, 09:06:36 AM »
I am here to testify that my Paulista neighbor has a well-kept property that EL Tejon would consider a model for other Paulistas to emulate.

Too bad he's a conspiracy nutter.  He has admitted to losing friends and wrecking his marriage due to his tinfoil-hattery.
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roo_ster

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lupinus

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Re: Why Ron Paul Scares the GOP
« Reply #37 on: March 28, 2008, 11:04:12 AM »
Ron Paul would be good if he actually updated his plans and stance to those which work in the modern world, not one fifty years ago.
That is all. *expletive deleted*ck you all, eat *expletive deleted*it, and die in a fire. I have considered writing here a long parting section dedicated to each poster, but I have decided, at length, against it. *expletive deleted*ck you all and Hail Satan.

Manedwolf

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Re: Why Ron Paul Scares the GOP
« Reply #38 on: March 28, 2008, 11:26:45 AM »
Ron Paul would be good if he actually updated his plans and stance to those which work in the modern world, not one hundred fifty years ago.

FTFY.

His world is one where global transactions are done by a clerk with a pen on a desk, by oil lamp light.




Bogie

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Re: Why Ron Paul Scares the GOP
« Reply #39 on: March 28, 2008, 11:37:54 AM »
Ron Paul scares the GOP for one reason.
 
Because a sizable number of people who would ordinarily vote against Hilbama will walk in, and vote for him. I'm thinking at least 2-3 points.
 
For that matter, I'm figuring that Huck and Fred are also going to at least be close to a point each in the general election.
 
And that's going to be the Democrat edge.
 
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Bogie

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Re: Why Ron Paul Scares the GOP
« Reply #40 on: March 28, 2008, 11:40:32 AM »
Uh, Tej...
 
My two garbage toters live outside. Right next to the trailer that's parked in the driveway. There's also a 13 year old van and a 12 year old car in the drive.
 
I'm considering putting some sort of giant anti-Hil sign on the trailer...
 
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Why Ron Paul Scares the GOP
« Reply #41 on: March 28, 2008, 12:25:51 PM »
What if I don't have a garage?   smiley
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Zardozimo Oprah Bannedalas

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Re: Why Ron Paul Scares the GOP
« Reply #42 on: March 28, 2008, 12:41:00 PM »
Quote
What if I don't have a garage?   

You'd better stay away from cheetos. "Cheetos" to El Tejon is like "wire hangers" to Joan Crawford.

Perd Hapley

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Re: Why Ron Paul Scares the GOP
« Reply #43 on: March 28, 2008, 12:56:26 PM »
Quote
Appropriate section of the First Amendment: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;"

How does planning to run the country according to "it's Christian basis, as intended by the Founding Fathers," NOT qualify as a violation?  Seems like a clear cut violation of both the Establishment Clause AND the Free Exercise Clause to me.


Because they're just words in a party platform.  I'm glad you've gone through their platform for us, because those words alone are very vague.  By no means are they a clear-cut anything.  Like the phrase, "Christian nation," it can be hard to tell what someone means by it. 

I might copy your post to a new thread, so we don't hijack this one any further.  I'll post a link here, if I do.  I think you may be reading a lot of things into the First Amendment, and into the platform.  The 1A tends to get over-stretched, far beyond its intent. 

But let me say again that I also feel the party is too overtly Christian for my taste.  I don't remember the platform being so God-this and God-that.  I often find myself agreeing with the policy stance of my fellows in the Religious Right, but abhorring their reasoning behind it.  As someone said of Sean Hannity, "he seems incapable of finding a reasonable argument for his position."   laugh
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Phyphor

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Re: Why Ron Paul Scares the GOP
« Reply #44 on: March 28, 2008, 05:01:43 PM »
Quote
In 2008, people who still hold all of them joined the Ron Paul Revolution.

No.  No I didn't.

You guys act like Ron Paul is the first Constitutionalist to run for president.  Have you never heard of the Const. Party? 

More like the 2nd Coming....

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Scout26

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Re: Why Ron Paul Scares the GOP
« Reply #45 on: March 28, 2008, 05:14:24 PM »
I can agree with about 50-75% of his domestic agenda and about 0% of his foreign policy. 

It really was his supporters which scared me.  A combination of Troofers, Star Trek/Star Wars Conventioneers, Tinfoil Hatters and the aforementioned "Lives in Mom's Basement Chee-too eaters."

Bascially the people rejected by the Libs and Commie's as too wierd/nerdy/geeky.



 
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Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Why Ron Paul Scares the GOP
« Reply #46 on: March 28, 2008, 07:03:35 PM »
Ron Paul used to scare this particular GOP member.  I used to worry that he was going to be a serious candidate, that he might split the Republican vote al la Ross Perot and usher in the second Clinton presidency.  But then I watched him fail utterly on the campaign trail.  I can't imagine him ever amounting to anything nationally.

No worries, now.   cool

LAK

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Re: Why Ron Paul Scares the GOP
« Reply #47 on: March 29, 2008, 04:40:47 AM »
What part of "Congress will make no law ...." does anyone not understand?

Or is it just people trying to fill in the blanks left by the mystical dissappearing ink used by the writers of the Constitution?

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Perd Hapley

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Re: Why Ron Paul Scares the GOP
« Reply #48 on: March 29, 2008, 05:58:34 AM »
Well, I don't understand your post.  Is part of it written in that disappearing ink? 
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Why Ron Paul Scares the GOP
« Reply #49 on: March 29, 2008, 06:36:37 AM »
need the paulista decoder ring
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I