Author Topic: Why Ron Paul Scares the GOP  (Read 22330 times)

roo_ster

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Re: Why Ron Paul Scares the GOP
« Reply #50 on: March 29, 2008, 10:00:52 AM »
need the paulista decoder ring

Found in the jumbo-sized box of Fruit Loops...
Regards,

roo_ster

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Silver Bullet

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Re: Why Ron Paul Scares the GOP
« Reply #51 on: March 29, 2008, 03:48:39 PM »
need the paulista decoder ring

Found in the jumbo-sized box of Fruit Loops...

Har, har, har ...   grin

(pretty funny, actually)

roo_ster

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Re: Why Ron Paul Scares the GOP
« Reply #52 on: March 29, 2008, 04:53:59 PM »
Hey, I actually voted for the guy, after McCain clenched the nomination.

Just so I could say I voted against the originator of the CFR act.

Now, my choice won't be so easy come NOV.
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roo_ster

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K Frame

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Re: Why Ron Paul Scares the GOP
« Reply #53 on: March 30, 2008, 06:52:46 AM »
"after McCain clenched the nomination"

There's some stuff by Ron Paul's supporters going around looking to the activities of Abraham Lincoln's supporters at the 1860 Republican nomination as a means of grabbing the nomination for Paul.

No acknowledgement of how vastly different things are 140+ years later, just reliance on this as their strategy, I think...



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Silver Bullet

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Re: Why Ron Paul Scares the GOP
« Reply #54 on: March 30, 2008, 08:23:33 AM »
If we could explain it, it wouldn't be a miracle.   laugh

Manedwolf

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Re: Why Ron Paul Scares the GOP
« Reply #55 on: March 30, 2008, 08:28:20 AM »
"after McCain clenched the nomination"

There's some stuff by Ron Paul's supporters going around looking to the activities of Abraham Lincoln's supporters at the 1860 Republican nomination as a means of grabbing the nomination for Paul.

No acknowledgement of how vastly different things are 140+ years later, just reliance on this as their strategy, I think...


Well, that's the thing. They don't understand that things are different now. Why else would they keep bellowing "GOLD STANDARD FIAT CURRENCIES GOLD GOLD GOLD" in a world where even a medium-sized international corporation has thousands of cross-currency transactions going on every second?

Money is no longer a note backed by a precious metal. Money is a fluctuating rate that people are willing to pay for goods and services in a global market.

And they refuse to understand that.

El Tejon

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Re: Why Ron Paul Scares the GOP
« Reply #56 on: March 30, 2008, 08:53:21 AM »
Look, in my mom's basement, Manewolf, this makes a lot more sense.

For example, if I had a job and could afford Cheetoes, I could pay my mom in gold in bring me more Cheetoes.
I do not smoke pot, wear Wookie suits, live in my mom's basement, collect unemployment checks or eat Cheetoes, therefore I am not a Ron Paul voter.

Perd Hapley

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Re: Why Ron Paul Scares the GOP
« Reply #57 on: March 30, 2008, 09:35:52 AM »
I'm not a Paulistinian, but I like Cheetos.  Is that bad?   undecided


Hey, Maned, did you get that audio clip I sent you, of the nutty Paulistinian?
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El Tejon

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Re: Why Ron Paul Scares the GOP
« Reply #58 on: March 30, 2008, 01:12:24 PM »
Yes.  As well, your Wookie custom is giving us all bad vibes.
I do not smoke pot, wear Wookie suits, live in my mom's basement, collect unemployment checks or eat Cheetoes, therefore I am not a Ron Paul voter.

MechAg94

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Re: Why Ron Paul Scares the GOP
« Reply #59 on: March 30, 2008, 01:40:46 PM »
I went to the Repub senatorial district convention yesterday.  A bunch of Paul precinct delegates were there trying to shake things up.  At least they tried to nominate and elect a new chairman.  I was told that guy and most of the rest were Paul supporters.  (we are in the middle of Paul's home district so it is not like everyone hates Ron Paul or anything.)  Anyway, I didn't know either one.  The only other delegate that showed up in my precinct liked the current chairman so our precinct voted against the new guy.  A few of those Paul people started pulling out our Precinct convention paperwork and questioning credentials to either boot our precinct out of the convention or kick out the other delegate.  I found that to be a bit weird and chicken *expletive deleted*it.  They didn't get their guy in and we finally got through the convention stuff.  Several of them left after that first vote fell through.  We bother trying to take out their "abolish the Fed" resolution.  It was only 2.5 hours, but I am not sure if I want to do this crap again or not.  Smiley

Most of those Paul supporters were decent people.  It was only a few that were very loud and sort of combative.  They apparently also thought voice votes were decided on volume rather than approximate number of voices.  That was annoying. 
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Derek Zeanah

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Re: Why Ron Paul Scares the GOP
« Reply #60 on: March 31, 2008, 06:07:00 AM »
Quote
Money is no longer a note backed by a precious metal. Money is a fluctuating rate that people are willing to pay for goods and services in a global market.

And they refuse to understand that.
I think we understand the way things are going fairly well, but it's worrisome for various reasons.  Devaluation of money for one -- I saw an interesting comparison when the 'new' VW Beetle came out that compared the cost of the new beetle versus the original.  The cost in dollars had grown greatly, while the cost in gold (if you'd converted gold to dollars at the going rate) was comparable.  That's just a fact with fiat currencies, they lose value over time. The historical perspective is that no fiat currency in history was ever sustainable -- they all failed eventually.  Folks at the constitutional convention knew this from recent memory as well.  Once people lose faith in the currency we're out of luck (and now that the Euro is available as a currency -- look at Euro use in recent rap videos -- we're closer to that point than we've been.  Remember -- the USD reached parity with the Canadian Dollar recently, then climbed back up, but I never thought I'd see that...)

So there are folks who think the US Dollar ought to be backed by something, and ideally something tangible.  I understand the arguments against it, and for a money supply that's a bit more flexible when we look at things from the perspective of economic growth, but I don't think your average Joe is better off with a currency that's worth consistently less from year to year.  And in the end, even though I'm working on an MBA and have a minor in Economics, I think doing what's best for citizens makes a bit more sense than doing what's best for corporations.

But then I don't know that I'm a huge fan of the Fed, either.  They can smooth things out in the short term, and they can refuse to do the right things and tank the economy as well (see our Great Depression and what Japan went through in the '90s which seems to be directly related to monetary policy).

But then, I'm not so much a "Paulian" or a "Libertarian" -- I just think I've embraced the economic way of thinking about these issues.

That aside, the ad-hominem attacks on Paul and his supports get a bit old.

MechAg94

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Re: Why Ron Paul Scares the GOP
« Reply #61 on: March 31, 2008, 06:17:48 AM »
I thought the Fed was created after the Great Depression was already in full swing.  Part of the New Deal stuff by Roosevelt.

I hope you don't think my post was an attack.  There were only a couple people that I thought were bad examples.  Most everyone behaved just fine.
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

erictank

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Re: Why Ron Paul Scares the GOP
« Reply #62 on: March 31, 2008, 09:09:07 AM »
Ron Paul scares the GOP for one reason.
 
Because a sizable number of people who would ordinarily vote against Hilbama will walk in, and vote for him. I'm thinking at least 2-3 points.

Maybe this time they'll actually LEARN something from it?  Present a candidate whose most-public example of government service DOESN'T involve a blatant violation of the First (or any other) Amendment?  Someone who's demonstratedly PRO-liberty?

I would have voted for Paul in the general election (actually, that can read, "...WILL vote for Paul..." - thanks to the wonder of write-in voting, and I'm making sure the Republican Party knows it).  Might even have been willing to hold my nose and vote Thompson, if he'd come out on top.  But MCCAIN?!?  Not a frakking CHANCE.  The Republican Party's been selling their "Vote for us or Candidate (D) will be voted in!!!!!" Koolaid for decades now, and I'm tired of hearing it and seeing the quality of the (R) frontrunners decline pretty steadily (on the premise of "Well, what are you going to do, vote Democrat?  HAHAHAHA!!!!").  I MIGHT think about voting (R) when - IF - they get back to what they allege their Party is all about.  I certainly won't vote for them and present the false front that the current actions of the Republican Party are acceptable.  If they want to keep Candidate (D) out of office - well, it's probably too late this time, unless Hillary and Obama eat themselves/each other in the run up to the (D) nominating convention.  I won't shed a tear, either way.  It's far too late for that.  Spiteful?  Perhaps.  But I refuse to blithely accept being ... spit on by those who want me to vote for them, just because they think they can get away with it since "the other guy is so much worse."  If that means "the other guy" gets voted in by those who don't know better, or care, well, perhaps they should have thought of that before they ... spit all over those of us who demand something better from those chosen to represent and lead this country. 


El T, I'll grant you every problem you've got with certain Paul supporters - note that I have not defended in any respect the specific ones you mention, nor the ones Manedwolf mentioned.  Behavior like that reflects poorly on Paul, no question.  Of course, it's virtually certain that for every individual like that, the ones the media preferred to focus on, there are hundreds or thousands of just-plain-folks, calmly and quietly holding down jobs, supporting families, raising kids, maintaining households, and doing all sorts of entertaining/useful/socially-redeeming things as hobbies.  In all, thousands upon thousands of people who just aren't INTERESTING (read - not newsworthy, since they aren't raving loons), in the media's eyes, but who think that Ron Paul was the best candidate in the field anyways.  People who don't get talked about in the media, who aren't presented as a support base for anyone, except maybe in aggregate when talking about vote or donation totals (hey, SOMEONE gave Paul a whole bunch of money for the campaign, and I doubt that your "Cheeto Loon" living in his mom's basement could afford it, from what you say).  And you tarred all of US with that same brush you slapped the nuts with, too.  You apparently bought into the media-generated stereotype - any wonder some of us here are a little torqued at being lumped in with them?

Besides, I hate Cheetos, I don't have a Wookiee costume, and I haven't lived in my mom's basement for over a decade.  If you're going to insult me, is it too much trouble to ask you to at least make it accurate?  grin

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Why Ron Paul Scares the GOP
« Reply #63 on: March 31, 2008, 09:25:27 AM »
if in fact paul garnered that much support amongst "earth people" he mighta carried his home district.not.
and he might be wise to not allow farces like the liberety dollar scam to use his likeness.  hard on his image  makes folks like me think hes wacky
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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K Frame

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Re: Why Ron Paul Scares the GOP
« Reply #64 on: March 31, 2008, 09:52:44 AM »
The Republican party fronted one individual who was portrayed, and largely seen, as an unrealistic zealot -- Barry Goldwater in 1964. It resulted in, I believe, the second worst presidential election defeat the Republicans ever suffered, the first being 1936.

I have absolutely no doubt that Ron Paul fronting the Republican ticket would be an absolute and unmitigated disaster.

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K Frame

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Re: Why Ron Paul Scares the GOP
« Reply #65 on: March 31, 2008, 09:55:20 AM »
"I thought the Fed was created after the Great Depression was already in full swing.  Part of the New Deal stuff by Roosevelt."

Nope. Created by an act of Congress in 1913.
Carbon Monoxide, sucking the life out of idiots, 'tards, and fools since man tamed fire.

Perd Hapley

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Re: Why Ron Paul Scares the GOP
« Reply #66 on: March 31, 2008, 01:44:27 PM »
Quote
Present a candidate whose most-public example of government service DOESN'T involve a blatant violation of the First (or any other) Amendment?

Are you saying John McCain's most public example of gov service was McCain-Feingold?  Did you forget about his time in Vietnam?
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Why Ron Paul Scares the GOP
« Reply #67 on: March 31, 2008, 08:17:00 PM »
Yes.  As well, your Wookie custom is giving us all bad vibes. 


Is it the smell?  I'm saving up enough gold to buy a washing machine.
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Finch

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Re: Why Ron Paul Scares the GOP
« Reply #68 on: March 31, 2008, 11:15:16 PM »
Quote
Present a candidate whose most-public example of government service DOESN'T involve a blatant violation of the First (or any other) Amendment?

Are you saying John McCain's most public example of gov service was McCain-Feingold?  Did you forget about his time in Vietnam?

What about it? He was captured. So were a bunch of other people. His Vietnam service doesn't have any reflection on what he would do as president. McCain-Feingold does.
Truth is treason in the empire of lies - Ron Paul

Bigjake

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Re: Why Ron Paul Scares the GOP
« Reply #69 on: April 01, 2008, 02:26:47 AM »

What about it? He was captured. So were a bunch of other people. His Vietnam service doesn't have any reflection on what he would do as president. McCain-Feingold does.

As John Kerry (Who served in Vietnam, BTW)  Found out.

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Why Ron Paul Scares the GOP
« Reply #70 on: April 01, 2008, 02:31:35 AM »
"What about it? He was captured. So were a bunch of other people. His Vietnam service doesn't have any reflection on what he would do as president. "


there are folks, fortunately, who think differently. being in long pants during that time tends to make one see it differently
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

El Tejon

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Re: Why Ron Paul Scares the GOP
« Reply #71 on: April 01, 2008, 02:41:10 AM »
eric, no, you misunderstand.  I am not reporting what I see in the media.  Rather, I am reporting what I see around me.  (The Ron Paul voters have not yet played dress up where I live, but they have in Indianapolis).

The ratholes I describe are in my city, Lafayette, Indiana, and in West Lafayette.  The Ron Paul sign bearing yard with the Mountain Dew, beer can and Cheetoe bags strewn about it is in my neighborhood, close to my house!

If there is a squared away Ron Paul supporter, I have yet to see one.  You call them "nuts" but I have yet to see any other type of Ron Paul voter.  To date I have yet to meet a Ron Paul vote who did not equate license with freedom, sloth with liberty.  There may be his supporters who believe otherwise, but I have yet to see evidence of this.

I'll give you a rebuttable presumption.  There may be Ron Paul supporters as you describe, but you better show me because this is not what I see all around me.
I do not smoke pot, wear Wookie suits, live in my mom's basement, collect unemployment checks or eat Cheetoes, therefore I am not a Ron Paul voter.

Manedwolf

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Re: Why Ron Paul Scares the GOP
« Reply #72 on: April 01, 2008, 04:01:21 AM »
That's nothing compared to the deplorable way the Paulians behaved during the primaries here in NH.

erictank

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Re: Why Ron Paul Scares the GOP
« Reply #73 on: April 01, 2008, 04:30:44 AM »
eric, no, you misunderstand.  I am not reporting what I see in the media.  Rather, I am reporting what I see around me.  (The Ron Paul voters have not yet played dress up where I live, but they have in Indianapolis).

The ratholes I describe are in my city, Lafayette, Indiana, and in West Lafayette.  The Ron Paul sign bearing yard with the Mountain Dew, beer can and Cheetoe bags strewn about it is in my neighborhood, close to my house!

Ah.  Gotcha.

If there is a squared away Ron Paul supporter, I have yet to see one.  You call them "nuts" but I have yet to see any other type of Ron Paul voter.  To date I have yet to meet a Ron Paul vote who did not equate license with freedom, sloth with liberty.  There may be his supporters who believe otherwise, but I have yet to see evidence of this.

I'll give you a rebuttable presumption.  There may be Ron Paul supporters as you describe, but you better show me because this is not what I see all around me.

Well, I don't have a pic handy at the moment, but... me.  Of course, I live in a townhouse owned by my fiancee (so we have a TINY "yard"), and the HOA would crucify us - possibly literally - if we didn't keep the place up to reasonable standards.  To say nothing of not wanting to live like a pig.

Sorry to hear that you have a high proportion of, shall we say, "poor examples" in your area.  Can't help you there, and frankly I agree with you that people like you describe are not good neighbors (or positive examples of humanity, even).  I'll counter by saying that I have not seen ANY people like you mention, for ANY candidate, even, in my own area of NoVA.  Guess my experience is different than yours, which helped to drive my annoyance at the broad-based attack.


Are you saying John McCain's most public example of gov service was McCain-Feingold?  Did you forget about his time in Vietnam?

Nope.  I'm saying that his military service is less likely, IMO, to be representative of what he would do as President than what he's done as a legislator since then.  I'll give him respect for his service in Vietnam - as a veteran myself, I could not do otherwise.  But he's demonstrated an appalling lack of concern for portions of the Constitution as a legislator - what's he likely to be willing to sign into law (or propose as a bill and try to ramrod through any opposition) as President?

Finch

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Re: Why Ron Paul Scares the GOP
« Reply #74 on: April 01, 2008, 06:53:45 AM »
"What about it? He was captured. So were a bunch of other people. His Vietnam service doesn't have any reflection on what he would do as president. "


there are folks, fortunately, who think differently. being in long pants during that time tends to make one see it differently

No, that quite unfortunate. There is little difference between your mentality and those who would vote for Obama because he is black. The fact that he was a POW does nothing to reflect on what he would do as President. His history in the senate on the other hand is a much better indicator. I thought that would be pretty evident. So what if he got shot down, he is still pissing on the Constitution.

But I guess that doesn't matter...we got terrorist to fight.  rolleyes
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