Author Topic: Dubya hit the nail on the head!  (Read 22644 times)

Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Dubya hit the nail on the head!
« Reply #75 on: May 19, 2008, 03:48:26 PM »
Americans with guns aren't the only Americans in Iraq.  Two of my old college profs took work contracts in Iraq.  They were electrical engineers, not armed soldiers, so the Iraqis they encountered weren't likely to tell them what they wanted to hear just because they had big guns.

Guess what?  They said the exact same things that all of the returning servicemen are saying about Iraq.  First, the average Iraqi has a high regard for America and for Americans, and appreciates all that we're trying to do for them.  Second, the American news coverage of Iraq is flat out wrong.

Perd Hapley

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Re: Dubya hit the nail on the head!
« Reply #76 on: May 19, 2008, 04:03:04 PM »
I know a .gov mathematician who's done two or three tours in Iraq.  I think they issued her a 16 while in country.  Luckily, she was already a gun-owner, so she at least had some familiarity with the bang-stick.  They also "made" her take one of those courses that teach crazy stunt-driver maneuvers.   grin
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De Selby

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Re: Dubya hit the nail on the head!
« Reply #77 on: May 19, 2008, 05:28:07 PM »
This is a perfect example of people accepting anecdotal evidence because it comports with their views, not unlike when anti-gunners say "well I know a crook who says he gets all kinds of guns at gun shows", and then refuse to look at statistics that say otherwise.

If the anecdotes are true, you'd think that at least one study would confirm them.  Where is it?
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

grampster

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Re: Dubya hit the nail on the head!
« Reply #78 on: May 19, 2008, 06:09:39 PM »
"As for polls.  That information is only as good as the pollster who asks the questions, the way the question is asked, and the intent of the person selected who answers the poll." (grampster in an earlier post.)

This is a perfect example of people accepting anecdotal evidence because it comports with their views, not unlike when anti-gunners say "well I know a crook who says he gets all kinds of guns at gun shows", and then refuse to look at statistics that say otherwise.

If the anecdotes are true, you'd think that at least one study would confirm them.  Where is it?

I'm wondering why you give such great credibility to polls and absolutely none to people who have also been in-country in a variety of occupations, other than pollsters.  Polls are nothing more than anecdotal information as well, with just as much potential bias.  For all your attempts at what you seem to believe is objectivity, it usually winds up instead as a self defeating prophesy.  You are amusing sir or madam, from time to time, but woefully predictable. 

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De Selby

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Re: Dubya hit the nail on the head!
« Reply #79 on: May 19, 2008, 09:35:40 PM »
"As for polls.  That information is only as good as the pollster who asks the questions, the way the question is asked, and the intent of the person selected who answers the poll." (grampster in an earlier post.)

This is a perfect example of people accepting anecdotal evidence because it comports with their views, not unlike when anti-gunners say "well I know a crook who says he gets all kinds of guns at gun shows", and then refuse to look at statistics that say otherwise.

If the anecdotes are true, you'd think that at least one study would confirm them.  Where is it?

I'm wondering why you give such great credibility to polls and absolutely none to people who have also been in-country in a variety of occupations, other than pollsters.  Polls are nothing more than anecdotal information as well, with just as much potential bias.  For all your attempts at what you seem to believe is objectivity, it usually winds up instead as a self defeating prophesy.  You are amusing sir or madam, from time to time, but woefully predictable. 



My point isn't that polls are infallible-it's that surely at least the supporters of this war would have an interest in shooting down the polls and coming up with polls of their own that demonstrate what they believe to be the truth.

Polls are not anecdotal, they are an attempt to measure data about people's opinions using statistical methods.  And yes, they do have the potential for bias-but how come there's not a single poll out there that indicates something other than a vast majority of Iraqis opposing the presence of U.S. troops, if it's just bias that yields that answer?

If there is actually a shred of evidence that a majority of Iraqis support the U.S. presence in Iraq, how come the defense department, George Bush, the Republican party members that are campaigning on the war like John McCain, the legions of think tanks that support the war, the alphabet soup of agencies and organizations (both pro war and anti-war), and all of the news services or polling services, of whatever side of the political aisle, have not come up with a number or a study to support the claim that all those other polls are wrong?

Seriously, don't you find that odd if nothing else?  Are all the supporters of the Iraq war part of the conspiracy to convince America that Iraqis don't want us there using biased studies too, or are they just not interested in doing any reports or polls on what Iraqis believe?
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

wmenorr67

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Re: Dubya hit the nail on the head!
« Reply #80 on: May 19, 2008, 09:52:03 PM »
How about all the Iraqi's that came out in droves, under fire, to vote.
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De Selby

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Re: Dubya hit the nail on the head!
« Reply #81 on: May 19, 2008, 10:00:59 PM »
How about all the Iraqi's that came out in droves, under fire, to vote.

Yeah, they weren't voting on whether the US should stay-indeed, look at the key players in the winning tickets that they voted for:

The Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq (the name's similarity to the Iranian parent organization is not an accident) http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/para/sciri.htm

Islamic Da'wa (led by Iranian sponsored Nuri Al Maliki-this group was headquartered in Iran before it returned to Iraq to be elected, and was founded by a relative of Muqtada al Sadr)http://meria.idc.ac.il/journal/2004/issue2/jv8n2a2.html

Hizbullah in Iraq (related to Hizbullah in Lebanon)

The Badr Corps (formerly part of the Iranian military-now the main military arm of the Iraqi government via its alliance with the Islamic Da'wa party)

Oh yes, the Iraqis turned out in droves alright....and they overwhelmingly elected militant organizations sponsored by Iran.  Seriously, those parties above are the ones that carried the Iraqi popular vote.

How on earth does that amount to support for the American presence?

Edit: included some links, since I've seen some posters express doubt before as to whether or not these organizations are actually Iranian sponsored.
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

wmenorr67

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Re: Dubya hit the nail on the head!
« Reply #82 on: May 19, 2008, 10:14:43 PM »
I can't argue that these groups don't have some Iranian influence.  But I work with Iraqis everyday and talk to them everyday.  More than one was an officer in the Iraqi Army under Saddam, one even being a General, and I am told everyday that they are happy for the American involvement and some actually say that the US needs to actually run the country for a few years before letting the Iraqis have it.

I don't know what more I can tell you.  It isn't bad news so therefore the press isn't going to report it.  Even when the military tries to brief it, it gets spun by the press.  I will just say go talk to people, military and civilian that have been over here.
There are five things, above all else, that make life worth living: a good relationship with God, a good woman, good health, good friends, and a good cigar.

Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American Soldier.  One died for your soul, the other for your freedom.

Bacon is the candy bar of meats!

Only the dead have seen the end of war!