Author Topic: Obama loses to "Generic Republican"... this is bad for us  (Read 16731 times)

MicroBalrog

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Re: Obama loses to "Generic Republican"... this is bad for us
« Reply #25 on: June 17, 2011, 03:34:50 PM »
I'd prefer Perry over Romney too, for obvious reasons, but if it becomes Romney versus Obama...well, those of you who plan to stay home or vote third party had better gird your loins for...OMG...secession.  This nation is not going to survive another Obama term intact.

How much money would you like to bet that no states will secede by the end of Obama's second term?

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AZRedhawk44

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Re: Obama loses to "Generic Republican"... this is bad for us
« Reply #26 on: June 17, 2011, 04:36:30 PM »
How much money would you like to bet that no states will secede by the end of Obama's second term?



With Utah and other States experimenting with "Gold Standard" legislation to divorce themselves from the FRN currency, it becomes more and more possible.
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longeyes

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Re: Obama loses to "Generic Republican"... this is bad for us
« Reply #27 on: June 17, 2011, 05:08:58 PM »
Micro, this is not about wagering any more than the odds of your country being attacked by Iran is about wagering.  I do think you underestimate how fractured this nation could be if Obama's policies are allowed free rein in a second term, perhaps with the adrenaline boost of a SCOTUS majority  There's the potential for very serious economic disruption in this country unless we change course, and when people are really backed up against the wall financially--something few living Americans can imagine--just about anything is possible.  Secession is only one of several options but all imply significant social friction and the gnashing of teeth.
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MechAg94

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Re: Obama loses to "Generic Republican"... this is bad for us
« Reply #28 on: June 17, 2011, 05:19:41 PM »
Just my thoughts, but electing a RINO is NOT the same as reelecting Obama.  It is light years better.  If any Republican gets elected, more than likely there will be another increase in Republican representation in Congress and more hope for better budgets out of Congress.  I believe I heard that a whole bunch of the spend and tax Democrats in the Senate are up for reelection in either this election or the next also.

I would much rather see a good libertarian leaning conservative in there, but if I have the choice between a stack of rice cakes or a bowl of dog crap, the rice cakes win every time. 
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seeker_two

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Re: Obama loses to "Generic Republican"... this is bad for us
« Reply #29 on: June 17, 2011, 07:45:48 PM »
Seeing who all is running in the GOP primary, I'd vote for "generic Republican" over all the current Presidential candidates, too.....  ;/
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MicroBalrog

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Re: Obama loses to "Generic Republican"... this is bad for us
« Reply #30 on: June 18, 2011, 03:39:09 AM »
Micro, this is not about wagering any more than the odds of your country being attacked by Iran is about wagering.  I do think you underestimate how fractured this nation could be if Obama's policies are allowed free rein in a second term, perhaps with the adrenaline boost of a SCOTUS majority  There's the potential for very serious economic disruption in this country unless we change course, and when people are really backed up against the wall financially--something few living Americans can imagine--just about anything is possible.  Secession is only one of several options but all imply significant social friction and the gnashing of teeth.

Here's the deal, longeyes.

One of specific reasons I'm attending graduate school is to make myself a more viable immigration candidate under American immigration laws (Which favor graduate degree holders). I have already bet six years of my life, and am about to bet three more, on the belief America will not collapse by the time I am capable of immigrating there, and in fact will remain a free, prosperous country.

You are making dire predictions about America. The simplest way to back them up is for you to make a specific prediction that can be proven true of false within a set period of time. I do not insist you should  bet money - although I recommend it, because it puts a wonderful edge on one's reasoning when money is on the line.

Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

De Selby

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Re: Obama loses to "Generic Republican"... this is bad for us
« Reply #31 on: June 18, 2011, 04:07:18 AM »
Can anyone elaborate Obama's policies, and explain how they're different from Ronald Reagan's policies?
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

Waitone

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Re: Obama loses to "Generic Republican"... this is bad for us
« Reply #32 on: June 18, 2011, 05:59:05 AM »
A generic ballot poll is bogus.  On one side you have a known candidate which has good points and warts.  On the other side you have a dream candidate (no specifics) and more importantly no warts.

Why would anyone think such a ballot would be rational?
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MechAg94

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Re: Obama loses to "Generic Republican"... this is bad for us
« Reply #33 on: June 18, 2011, 09:42:38 AM »
Can anyone elaborate Obama's policies, and explain how they're different from Ronald Reagan's policies?
De Selby, please don't troll.  If you can't figure out some of those differences, you need to put on the dunce hat and go sit in the corner.
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longeyes

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Re: Obama loses to "Generic Republican"... this is bad for us
« Reply #34 on: June 18, 2011, 11:22:52 AM »
Here's the deal, longeyes.

One of specific reasons I'm attending graduate school is to make myself a more viable immigration candidate under American immigration laws (Which favor graduate degree holders). I have already bet six years of my life, and am about to bet three more, on the belief America will not collapse by the time I am capable of immigrating there, and in fact will remain a free, prosperous country.

You are making dire predictions about America. The simplest way to back them up is for you to make a specific prediction that can be proven true of false within a set period of time. I do not insist you should  bet money - although I recommend it, because it puts a wonderful edge on one's reasoning when money is on the line.



Well, that's fine, but I already live in the United States, so I do have some skin in the game.  As do most of the other people on this forum.  What you want and what I want aren't what matters here.  I'm not making dire predictions about America: what's dire is already here, and I'm suggesting, if you hear me, that there are constructive and pragmatic solutions, however dramatic they may seem at present, one of which is parts of our population recognizing that they are going to need to divorce themselves from the officially-sanctioned madness.  In other words, it will truly become dire if we continue to believe that we are compelled to co-exist with people and forces adverse to our interests and at the cost of our basic liberties.

Okay, money.  Fact is, I am investing with what I see in mind.  My approach is to use a diverse portfolio of non-correlated assets.  This is the best I know how to do at the present time.
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TommyGunn

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Re: Obama loses to "Generic Republican"... this is bad for us
« Reply #35 on: June 18, 2011, 12:09:15 PM »
Can anyone elaborate Obama's policies, and explain how they're different from Ronald Reagan's policies?

 :facepalm:  Geeesh.  If you can't figure THAT out on your own, NO ONE can help you..............
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TommyGunn

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Re: Obama loses to "Generic Republican"... this is bad for us
« Reply #36 on: June 18, 2011, 12:24:51 PM »
...You are making dire predictions about America. The simplest way to back them up is for you to make a specific prediction that can be proven true of false within a set period of time. I do not insist you should  bet money - although I recommend it, because it puts a wonderful edge on one's reasoning when money is on the line.

Well, like longeyes I am not sanguine about America's future.  We are currently 14.3 TRILLION dollars in debt and are facing a spending curve that has transitioned upward in, basically, the shape of a hyperbola, since roughly the early to mid 1960s.  This is unsustainable.  The curve obviously cannot continue upward in reality, even though in theory it can.  There is an actual limit to our wealth.  I wish I could find some real indication that Obama, Harry Reid, Pelosi, Babs Boxer, Diane Feinstein, and other demos would comprehend that .... but I can't seem to.
I mean actions, not words.  Anyone can "say" anything in politics.
As of now our GDP growth is down to 1.8%, the last month or so has been HELL on the Dow Jones indicator, and even consumer optimism is waning.  
Quantum Easement 2 ends at the end of this month and I don't really know what that portends.  
A number of economists have pointed out the real possibility of a "double-dip" recession.   This is similar to what happened in the 1930s and probably for much the same reasons.  Obama is FDR redux and none of his policies have really helped, only hindered.
Franklin Delano Roosevelt used to complain about the industrialists conspiring against him as the reason his policies didn't work.  In 1940 he almost didn't run again because he well knew his administration had utterly failed.   It was only the beiginning of WW2 and his switch to an "isolationist" campaign that alllowed him a third term.
Thankfully third terms are not permitted under the Constitution these days, but we still face a possibility Obama, who complains about bankers and other big businesses hoarding $$$$$ and not spending it (an echo of the FDR rantings) getting a second term.  
Sparta fell.  Greece fell.  Rome fell.  Even the British Empire, upon which the sun did not set, collapsed.
America will not continue as is.  I am not saying we will collapse, but we cannot continue on the path we are now on, or we WILL collapse --just like Rome.  
I don't know when.  I don't gamble or do sideshows or crystal ball predictions, or tell people how long their "lifeline" is.  I am merely looking at our financial situation, as well as our social and cultural condition, and saying, we cannot go on as we have been.  
I wish you well if you desire to come here and make a life for yourself.  I think we will be all the better for having you here too.   Best of luck to you.  =)
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roo_ster

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Re: Obama loses to "Generic Republican"... this is bad for us
« Reply #37 on: June 18, 2011, 12:59:25 PM »
Here's the deal, longeyes.

One of specific reasons I'm attending graduate school is to make myself a more viable immigration candidate under American immigration laws (Which favor graduate degree holders). I have already bet six years of my life, and am about to bet three more, on the belief America will not collapse by the time I am capable of immigrating there, and in fact will remain a free, prosperous country.

You are making dire predictions about America. The simplest way to back them up is for you to make a specific prediction that can be proven true of false within a set period of time. I do not insist you should  bet money - although I recommend it, because it puts a wonderful edge on one's reasoning when money is on the line.

Even if American dissolution were a high probability, your move would be smart, as I doubt Israel is a viable proposition past 2050 or so.
Regards,

roo_ster

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MicroBalrog

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Re: Obama loses to "Generic Republican"... this is bad for us
« Reply #38 on: June 18, 2011, 07:45:03 PM »
Quote
In other words, it will truly become dire if we continue to believe that we are compelled to co-exist with people and forces adverse to our interests and at the cost of our basic liberties.

Here's the thing:

You're the one with the apocalyptic predictions.

What I ask is that you make your apocalyptic predictions into a concrete, falsifiable form.

"Dow at 7,000 by 2012."

"Hyperinflation (defined as at least 10000% per annum) by 2013."

"Riots in Tulsa, Oklahoma, by 2014."

What this form should be is for you to decide. But if you are making a prediction, should you not put it in such a form that we may see whether you are right or not?
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longeyes

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Re: Obama loses to "Generic Republican"... this is bad for us
« Reply #39 on: June 18, 2011, 09:26:44 PM »
Please, with all due respect, I am not about to be suckered into making specific predictions of that nature.  No one should do that. The hallways of history are littered with people who presumed to pronounce on such metrics and ended up looking foolish.  However...I can point to current trends, as I see them, and outline where they appear to be going based on movements, momentum, demographics, the nation's zeitgeist.  You can do the same.  You use the term "apocalyptic," by the way.  I don't.  I use the term "pragmatic."  It doesn't take anything but common sense to recognize the unlikelihood of the current American population coming together on the necessary policies and programs.  This is now a deeply divided nation, and it took 50 years to get here.

None of this means you shouldn't attempt to emigrate here.  We can use all the help we can get.
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De Selby

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Re: Obama loses to "Generic Republican"... this is bad for us
« Reply #40 on: June 18, 2011, 10:14:24 PM »
De Selby, please don't troll.  If you can't figure out some of those differences, you need to put on the dunce hat and go sit in the corner.

I'm quite serious - obama's economic policy is basically identical (and it sees similar bubble effects developing.)

His foreign policy is, again, not at all that different.  He's attacking the same interests.

Obama does not present or manage image nearly as well as Reagan did, but on policy I think you'd be hard pressed to identify a core disagreement.
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makattak

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Re: Obama loses to "Generic Republican"... this is bad for us
« Reply #41 on: June 18, 2011, 10:17:11 PM »
I'm quite serious - obama's economic policy is basically identical (and it sees similar bubble effects developing.)

His foreign policy is, again, not at all that different.  He's attacking the same interests.

Obama does not present or manage image nearly as well as Reagan did, but on policy I think you'd be hard pressed to identify a core disagreement.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRdLpem-AAs
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TommyGunn

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Re: Obama loses to "Generic Republican"... this is bad for us
« Reply #42 on: June 18, 2011, 11:28:56 PM »
I'm quite serious - obama's economic policy is basically identical (and it sees similar bubble effects developing.)

His foreign policy is, again, not at all that different.  He's attacking the same interests.

Obama does not present or manage image nearly as well as Reagan did, but on policy I think you'd be hard pressed to identify a core disagreement.

You are in loony-tune land.  Reagan enacted a lot of de-regulation and lowered taxes.  This had the effect of getting us out of the Carter malaise and a recession.  It really paid off in the 90s when a lot of those  de regulated research & development programs began to make a profit.  At the end of his presidency we were doing well and government revenues had doubled -- unfortunatly due to a democrat kongress, spending had more than made up for this.
Obama wants to re regulate everything and tax everyone.  You might notice we aren't doing so well economically.
Anyone who thinks Reagen=Obama is not living in the same universe.  Say hello to Rod Serling for me.  [tinfoil]
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RocketMan

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Re: Obama loses to "Generic Republican"... this is bad for us
« Reply #43 on: June 19, 2011, 03:09:39 AM »
I'm quite serious - obama's economic policy is basically identical (and it sees similar bubble effects developing.)

His foreign policy is, again, not at all that different.  He's attacking the same interests.

Obama does not present or manage image nearly as well as Reagan did, but on policy I think you'd be hard pressed to identify a core disagreement.

You must live in a very different universe.
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MicroBalrog

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Re: Obama loses to "Generic Republican"... this is bad for us
« Reply #44 on: June 19, 2011, 10:25:13 PM »
Quote
This is now a deeply divided nation, and it took 50 years to get here.

And this is a bad thing?
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TommyGunn

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Re: Obama loses to "Generic Republican"... this is bad for us
« Reply #45 on: June 19, 2011, 10:29:25 PM »
And this is a bad thing?

Depends on how it got there and where it's going.  The Bible  warns that "a house divided against itself cannot stand."
OTOH turning into a non-divided, unified, mono-ideological country has its pitfalls.   For example, should it devolve into a tyranny that would be a bad thing.  The tyrant may have his "act" together .... and he may not have anyone opposing him (or his views)  but that doesn't mean his citizens enjoy great freedom or that those who opposed him enjoy their new occupation: pushing up daises.
MOLON LABE   "Through ignorance of what is good and what is bad, the life of men is greatly perplexed." ~~ Cicero

MicroBalrog

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Re: Obama loses to "Generic Republican"... this is bad for us
« Reply #46 on: June 19, 2011, 10:31:01 PM »
Look at Europe's political world.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

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TommyGunn

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Re: Obama loses to "Generic Republican"... this is bad for us
« Reply #47 on: June 19, 2011, 10:38:07 PM »
I generally don't do that unless I'm stocked up on Alka Selzer, Pepto Bismal, or some other stomach calmative ....  ;)
MOLON LABE   "Through ignorance of what is good and what is bad, the life of men is greatly perplexed." ~~ Cicero

roo_ster

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Re: Obama loses to "Generic Republican"... this is bad for us
« Reply #48 on: June 20, 2011, 12:33:37 AM »
I'm quite serious - obama's economic policy is basically identical (and it sees similar bubble effects developing.)

His foreign policy is, again, not at all that different.  He's attacking the same interests.

Obama does not present or manage image nearly as well as Reagan did, but on policy I think you'd be hard pressed to identify a core disagreement.

Well, BHO kills a lot more militant Muslims than Reagan ever did. 

But, BHO also pisses all over allies while brown-nosing bitter enemies.  "Smart Diplomacy," right.

Throw-away comments aside, RWR and BHO have entirely foreign policy different goals in mind.  RWR, one of American renewal and strength.  BHO, one of American decline and weakness. 
Regards,

roo_ster

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roo_ster

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Re: Obama loses to "Generic Republican"... this is bad for us
« Reply #49 on: June 20, 2011, 12:35:45 AM »
Look at Europe's political world.

No thanks.  Two world wars and a genocide in a 30 year span are great arguments for coming down on those not assimilated into middle class American culture with a hammer.
Regards,

roo_ster

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