Sauce for the goose, sauce for the gander?

[RoadKingLarry]

This is getting kind of interesting to watch.
At the Capitol in OKC there is a 10 Comandments monument on the grounds.
Been a bit of a fight to keep it there.

Now a group of Satanists want to erect their own monument in keeping with the whole "no establishment" thing.

The local Book of Face crowd is pretty up in arms over it.


http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2014/01/06/n-y-group-applies-to-build-satan-statue-at-oklahoma-state-capitol/

[charby]

Interesting, I say if they allow Judeo-Christian items, they also need to allow items from other religions, not matter how they disagree with them.

I think they need to erect a statue to honor Gozer The Gozerian.

[RevDisk]

I would donate a very large sum of money to help get that put up.

All or none, 'em is the rules.

[bedlamite]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/17/flying-spaghetti-monster-wisconsin_n_4459619.html

[RevDisk]

"Think this is ridiculous? We agree!"


BLASPHEMY!

How dare they insult the FSM! 

[Stetson]

I'm all for them putting up the statue in NY.  There are zero people from this NY group that are actually going to go see the statue they are paying to put up.  It is not a religious statement, it's a bunch of people in NY putting up a statue in 'fly over country', AKA being d***s.  Its publicity, not a religious statement.

[RevDisk]

I'm all for them putting up the statue in NY.  There are zero people from this NY group that are actually going to go see the statue they are paying to put up.  It is not a religious statement, it's a bunch of people in NY putting up a statue in 'fly over country', AKA being d***s.  Its publicity, not a religious statement.

And? Most of the folks who backed the RoboCop statue aren't going to go to Detroit.

Well designed proposed monument, btw. The art geek in me is impressed. I'd definitely want to go see it.

[AJ Dual]

Yeah. I'd throw them a $20. 

[Phyphor]

I knew some Church of Satan folks when I lived in Hanford, CA some years back.

Oddly (or not?) enough, they turned out to be pretty dishonest.

I halfway expect these guys to collect all the money and *poof*, gone.  Yoink, suckers.

And as monuments to Satan go, I guess that wouldn't be a bad one either.

[Scout26]

I guess I'm the only one that finds it funny that the Satanist's all butthurt because the 10 Commandments are on display.  Shouldn't they just cast as few spells/hexes/curses/sacrificial virgins at the Christians/Jews/Muslims for allowing it and moving on with their lives??

I swear some people have far too much time on their hands and need to find something productive to do.  

[Ron]

When your particular moral code supplies the foundation for an empire like western civilization you too may have a monument on public land.

[vaskidmark]

When your particular moral code supplies the foundation for an empire like western civilization you too may have a monument on public land.

Strange, but I always thought that "public land" was the monument to "an empire like western civilization".

And that one of the ways to keep that land public was to keep the government out of religion and religion out of the government.

stay safe.

[makattak]

And that one of the ways to keep that land public was to keep the government out of religion and religion out of the government.

stay safe.

Sure thing.

Just one question: which religion is the Ten Commandments "establishing?"

(I could go further and note that the founders wished to avoid choosing one Christian denomination as supreme over all the others, not that the entirety of Christianity was to be suppressed in public life as is the aim now. But since the 10 Commandments isn't even exclusively Christian, I'm failing to see how honoring their importance is "establishing" a religion.)

[Perd Hapley]

Strange, but I always thought that "public land" was the monument to "an empire like western civilization".

And that one of the ways to keep that land public was to keep the government out of religion and religion out of the government.

stay safe.

He didn't say it was a monument to western civ, he said it was a monument in honor of the Ten Commandments. (Which, by the by, is more properly Jewish than Christian.  )

[RevDisk]

When your particular moral code supplies the foundation for an empire like western civilization you too may have a monument on public land.

So, buncha shot Native Americans, surrounded by ripped up treaties?  "Lies and Genocide" is indeed a particular moral code.   


(Not that I'm a hippy and think Native Americans were wussy peace-loving hippies prior to the White Dude showing up. Most Native American tribes were pretty blood thirsty killers. Otherwise, they wouldn't have survived against the other blood thirsty killer tribes. I'm just pointing out, said monument is directly opposed to the particular moral code that emptied America of its previous occupants and allowed the current civilization to flourish.)

[MechAg94]

So, buncha shot Native Americans, surrounded by ripped up treaties?  "Lies and Genocide" is indeed a particular moral code.   


(Not that I'm a hippy and think Native Americans were wussy peace-loving hippies prior to the White Dude showing up. Most Native American tribes were pretty blood thirsty killers. Otherwise, they wouldn't have survived against the other blood thirsty killer tribes. I'm just pointing out, said monument is directly opposed to the particular moral code that emptied America of its previous occupants and allowed the current civilization to flourish.)

Savages don't count.   

Was that moral code or was that an overbearing central government full of self serving politicians who were "managing" the territories? 

Your standards of finding what to blame for anything and everything are odd.

[MechAg94]

Strange, but I always thought that "public land" was the monument to "an empire like western civilization".

And that one of the ways to keep that land public was to keep the government out of religion and religion out of the government.

stay safe.

Did the founders ever say anything about keeping religion out of the government?  I never heard that.  They did want to keep government out of religion, but the reverse is not necessarily true. 

As far as I am concerned, the people of the State of Oklahoma should be able to decide what symbols they want on public land, not some Satanist/Atheists in New York.  Regardless of what courts have said, I don't consider a few religious symbols to be a violation of Religous Freedom.  I find this whole War on the Public Display of Religion by Atheists to be rather offensive.  The lack of religious symbols would seem to go the opposite way and support the religion of Atheism. 

[Ron]

Let's all just pretend that western civilization happened in a moral and religious vacuum.

[MechAg94]

The other question in my mind is can you really regard Satanism as a separate religion?  It seems to me it wouldn't exist without Christianity and legaly it should just be considered a denomination.  No separate symbols are necessary.   

[White Horseradish]

Personally, I'd like to see some appropriately awesome Norse statues there.

[Tallpine]

The other question in my mind is can you really regard Satanism as a separate religion?  It seems to me it wouldn't exist without Christianity and legaly it should just be considered a denomination.  No separate symbols are necessary.   

Good point. 

Once you stop believing in Satan, then you don't need God 

[White Horseradish]

The other question in my mind is can you really regard Satanism as a separate religion?  It seems to me it wouldn't exist without Christianity and legaly it should just be considered a denomination.  No separate symbols are necessary.   

Christianity wouldn't exist without Judaism. Is it a separate religion?

[Ron]

Western civilization as we know it wouldn't exist without Judaism and Christianity.

Is it separate from its religions?

[fifth_column]

Western civilization as we know it wouldn't exist without Judaism and Christianity.

Is it separate from its religions?

Yes

[Ron]

Yes

I suspect the surgical removal of religious influence from our civic culture and public sphere will either kill or permanently maim the patient.

Amorality and liberty have never been known to be bedfellows, except in the libertarians fantasy world that has never existed.