Author Topic: Royal Saudi Navy vs. Iranian Navy... could happen?  (Read 9995 times)

Scout26

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Re: Royal Saudi Navy vs. Iranian Navy... could happen?
« Reply #25 on: April 21, 2015, 12:35:00 PM »
Yes, they did/do.  Going back to the tanker wars of the 1980's.  However, like everything military they are maintenance intensive.   Given the Muslim disdain for "menial" labor, I highly doubt they are very serviceable, and if so more likely to blowup on the launcher then on the target.

However, you plan as if they will work as advertised, and prepare accordingly. 
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


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erictank

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Re: Royal Saudi Navy vs. Iranian Navy... could happen?
« Reply #26 on: April 23, 2015, 09:45:14 AM »
Yeah, we backed over top of the Leyte Gulf one night and knocked off CIWS mount on the port stern. Never replaced. And after that I have never assumed that someone fell asleep and accidentally set off an alarm at 0200. Real fun when you're in the Persian Gulf and that's the chem alarm.

Blows my mind that they didn't fix that.

I had just come off 10-2 (2200-0200) watch and racked out when that happened. 0230-ish, during a back-full drill for the 2-7 watch. Made the same assumption as French about the alarm, and was waiting for an announcement to disregard when the back of the ship heeled up a bit from the port side and shuddered. Very shortly thereafter, no one in berthing was sleeping. One of the watchstanders reported that the lookouts reported a "popup contact" several seconds before impact. ;/. No, they weren't sleeping at all...

Broke one of the main engines, too - number 1 throttle poppet (of 7, IIRC) broke and was completely inoperable. That main engine - the one I controlled for ORSE testing about 2 weeks after the collision - had zero speed control below 50 rpm; standard was to keep all 4 mains within 10 rpm. I got to look like a chump noob for my last of 4 ORSE exams. :facepalm:

I was sad to hear that Captain Christensen, TR's CO, lost the star he was up for as a result of the collision. I understand why - the boss is always in charge, even when he's sleeping - but it sucked.

French G.

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Re: Royal Saudi Navy vs. Iranian Navy... could happen?
« Reply #27 on: April 23, 2015, 12:10:19 PM »
Oops, stbd stern, damn I'm getting old. Mount 22 I think? Doesn't help I worked just forward of there so in my mental layout it was on the port side of things that aspoldey zone.
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erictank

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Re: Royal Saudi Navy vs. Iranian Navy... could happen?
« Reply #28 on: April 23, 2015, 03:32:13 PM »
Mental pictures (from photos I saw afterwards) I have of TR and Leyte Gulf have port-aft damage to TR, long open tear above stbd waterline for Leyte Gulf. It was, IIRC, into 8 figures for damage to each ship.

It was the shock of the collision that damaged the steam poppet, not direct contact with one of the mains.

Hutch

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Re: Royal Saudi Navy vs. Iranian Navy... could happen?
« Reply #29 on: April 26, 2015, 10:43:25 AM »
Current news reports indicate that the Iranians have reversed course.  Secure from General Quarters.  Set normal watch throughout the fleet.

Whew.
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freakazoid

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Re: Royal Saudi Navy vs. Iranian Navy... could happen?
« Reply #30 on: April 26, 2015, 11:29:10 AM »
Oops, stbd stern, damn I'm getting old. Mount 22 I think? Doesn't help I worked just forward of there so in my mental layout it was on the port side of things that aspoldey zone.

Port is even numbers. Is it port and starboard mounts or aft and forward? If aft it would of been 22.
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agricola

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Re: Royal Saudi Navy vs. Iranian Navy... could happen?
« Reply #31 on: April 26, 2015, 06:52:02 PM »
Yes, they did/do.  Going back to the tanker wars of the 1980's.  However, like everything military they are maintenance intensive.   Given the Muslim disdain for "menial" labor, I highly doubt they are very serviceable, and if so more likely to blowup on the launcher then on the target.

However, you plan as if they will work as advertised, and prepare accordingly. 

TBH they have kept a lot of those F-14, F-4 and F-5 you sold them going for the past thirty or forty years without too much in the way of support, so they are probably quite good at maintenance.
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Scout26

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Re: Royal Saudi Navy vs. Iranian Navy... could happen?
« Reply #32 on: April 26, 2015, 09:15:07 PM »
Umm, actually no.

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htairfo/20130901.aspx
Quote
Two of their aircraft, the U.S. F-4D and F-5E Tiger, were widely used around the world. Somewhere, someone had parts for these planes that Iran could buy. There are still about 40 of each type in service, with less than half of them flyable at any time.

This was less the case with Iran's most expensive warplane, the U.S. F-14 Tomcat. Iran was the only export customer of this aircraft. Some F-14s have been kept flyable, despite the rumored sabotage of Iran's AIM-54 Phoenix missiles by U.S. technicians as they were leaving. To demonstrate this, they sent 25 F-14s on a fly-over of Tehran in 1985. Today, Iran has about 20 F-14s, with less than half of them flyable.

As I'm sure French G will tell you, you can be absolutely perfect at maintenance, but if you don't have spare parts, it means nothing.

Also there's a HUGE difference between "Flyable" and "Fightable".
« Last Edit: April 27, 2015, 09:13:53 AM by scout26 »
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.

De Selby

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Re: Royal Saudi Navy vs. Iranian Navy... could happen?
« Reply #33 on: April 26, 2015, 11:00:49 PM »
Umm, actually no.

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htairfo/20130901.aspx
As I'm sure French G will tell you, you can absolutely perfect at maintenance, but if you don't have spare parts, it means nothing.

Also there's a HUGE difference between "Flyable" and "Fightable".

I wonder how the Jewish veterans of Iran see it - somehow I dohbt they have an "inshallah" attitude to making war.

I'm surprised how little press they get - you'd think someone would interview the Iranian Jewish government officials on these things at least out of interest.
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Andiron

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Re: Royal Saudi Navy vs. Iranian Navy... could happen?
« Reply #34 on: April 27, 2015, 09:33:27 PM »
I wonder how the Jewish veterans of Iran see it - somehow I dohbt they have an "inshallah" attitude to making war.

I'm surprised how little press they get - you'd think someone would interview the Iranian Jewish government officials on these things at least out of interest.

Are you high?   Jewish Iranians in the Iranian gov't?

This is the same country that doesn't have any homosexuals,  according to their former president.
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Re: Royal Saudi Navy vs. Iranian Navy... could happen?
« Reply #35 on: April 27, 2015, 10:46:12 PM »
Are you high?   Jewish Iranians in the Iranian gov't?

This is the same country that doesn't have any homosexuals,  according to their former president.

OK, I will presume you have not read the Bible.

There have been Jews in Persia for thousands of years.  For that long there have also been Jews in Persian gov't.  "Court Jew" is not just a European concept.  There have been court Jews in almost every significant country's governments from the Atlantic to the border of India at one time or another.  To include Persia.  And every Caliphate up to and including the Ottoman Turkish Empire/Caliphate.  Jews were heavily represented in Kemal Ataturk's Young Turk supporters.  In addition to court, Jews were represented in the trades we think of as traditional for them in Muslim lands: mercantile, shipping, money lending.

As far as post-Shah Iran, a bunch left immediately after the Ayatollas took over.  But, despite the Ayatollas' antipathy to Israel, the official Iranian policy toward Iran's Jews is tolerance: Pretty much "Our Jews are cool and not like those zionists."    I think the first Ayatolla made a big deal about it.  No, not tolerance like we have in the USA, but relative to most places and most times, the Ayatollas do right by Iran's Jews.  And the Jews generally do their duty as citizens to include military service.  So, DS's comment may be flip, but it does have some basis in fact.

If you want to see Jews and Christians truly eradicated from Muslim countries, just have America invade them.  Every time we have invaded and overthrown a locally-sourced dictator, the knives come out for the local Christians and Jews.

And equating Jews to homosexuals?  I would hope for some clarification.

I wonder how the Jewish veterans of Iran see it - somehow I dohbt they have an "inshallah" attitude to making war.

I'm surprised how little press they get - you'd think someone would interview the Iranian Jewish government officials on these things at least out of interest.

Realistically, not enough Jews in Iran's military to make a difference. 

Yes, the ethnic Persians are not as utterly unsuited to Western military organization and warfare as are ethnic Arabs, but they still are infected with a lot of inshallah.  Islam has not been kind to Persian warmaking capacity over time.  The more orthodox they became, the less effective their military apparatus. 


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roo_ster

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Andiron

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Re: Royal Saudi Navy vs. Iranian Navy... could happen?
« Reply #36 on: April 27, 2015, 11:00:54 PM »
Clarification forthcoming.

I assumed (yes, I know how that ends)   that any country that hates Israel that much must not be crazy about Jews. 

On the homosexuals equating to Jews;  Mahmoud never made any effort to hide his stance on either.   "In Iran we don't have homosexuals like in your country"


So,  given the desire to nuke Israel from the map,  and love (not) of homosexuals,  that's my logic.   I've not read the Bible for background.  Just figured they hated all Jews,  including ingenious ones.  ???
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Royal Saudi Navy vs. Iranian Navy... could happen?
« Reply #37 on: April 28, 2015, 01:54:19 AM »
Just figured they hated all Jews,  including ingenious ones.  ???

If there's any Jew I hate, it's an ingenious one. But ... I hate everyone who's smarter than I am, so it's not anti-semitism.
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: Royal Saudi Navy vs. Iranian Navy... could happen?
« Reply #38 on: April 28, 2015, 03:30:19 AM »
If there's any Jew I hate, it's an ingenious one. But ... I hate everyone who's smarter than I am, so it's not anti-semitism.

So would that be an indigenous prejudice?
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Re: Royal Saudi Navy vs. Iranian Navy... could happen?
« Reply #39 on: April 28, 2015, 03:43:45 AM »
The two exports I'd put money on Iran making work would be the F-4 and the P-3. I've seen a Tomcat in a pic of a recent parade flyover but I'm guessing that's about all it is good for.
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stevelyn

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Re: Royal Saudi Navy vs. Iranian Navy... could happen?
« Reply #40 on: April 28, 2015, 08:35:12 AM »
So shia and sunni might kill eachother in a spectacular naval battle? I call that a win.



Exactly. Both are enemies. We should be making sure that everyone is armed well enough to kill each other off.
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Re: Royal Saudi Navy vs. Iranian Navy... could happen?
« Reply #41 on: April 28, 2015, 12:24:34 PM »
The two exports I'd put money on Iran making work would be the F-4 and the P-3. I've seen a Tomcat in a pic of a recent parade flyover but I'm guessing that's about all it is good for.

Just looked at the Wiki page on the Iranian AF inventory. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aircraft_of_the_Iranian_Air_Force

That is one sad list of piddly numbers of disparate planes, especially for a country as oil-rich as Iran.  I doubt even a third of those aircraft can get in the air and fewer than that able to fight  And fewer pilots capable of fighting.  The logistics of keeping all those aircraft types in the air would be a nightmare for a first world western country. 

Jordan has a more effective air arm.  At least they have only two types of fighters to maintain.

Mayhap this is the best effect of economic sanctions.
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roo_ster

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Hawkmoon

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Re: Royal Saudi Navy vs. Iranian Navy... could happen?
« Reply #42 on: April 28, 2015, 05:20:09 PM »
No problem. Iran will just reverse engineer the F-4 like they did with the drone they shot down.
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Angel Eyes

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Re: Royal Saudi Navy vs. Iranian Navy... could happen?
« Reply #43 on: April 28, 2015, 05:27:15 PM »
No problem. Iran will just reverse engineer the F-4 like they did with the drone they shot down.

They don't need to reverse engineer anything.  Iran has its own aerospace industry producing superior fighter aircraft like this:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfruXqfhfS4
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Andiron

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Re: Royal Saudi Navy vs. Iranian Navy... could happen?
« Reply #44 on: April 28, 2015, 08:43:35 PM »
If there's any Jew I hate, it's an ingenious one. But ... I hate everyone who's smarter than I am, so it's not anti-semitism.

Well played.

Gods damnit, autocorrect.. >:D
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De Selby

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Re: Royal Saudi Navy vs. Iranian Navy... could happen?
« Reply #45 on: April 28, 2015, 09:46:55 PM »
Well played.

Gods damnit, autocorrect.. >:D

The right to practice Judaism is enshrined in the Iranian constitution.  One member of parliament must be Jewish.
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SADShooter

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Re: Royal Saudi Navy vs. Iranian Navy... could happen?
« Reply #46 on: April 28, 2015, 11:29:49 PM »
The right to practice Judaism is enshrined in the Iranian constitution.  One member of parliament must be Jewish.

How tolerant and egalitarian. I'm sure Saeed Abedini is comforted in his prison cell.
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roo_ster

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Re: Royal Saudi Navy vs. Iranian Navy... could happen?
« Reply #47 on: April 29, 2015, 07:44:14 AM »
The right to practice Judaism is enshrined in the Iranian constitution.  One member of parliament must be Jewish.

Yeah, the token Jew in Iran's parliament was not that to which I referred. 
Regards,

roo_ster

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Re: Royal Saudi Navy vs. Iranian Navy... could happen?
« Reply #48 on: April 29, 2015, 08:56:29 AM »
The right to practice Judaism is enshrined in the Iranian constitution.  One member of parliament must be Jewish.

Wow, they are so enlightened and tolerant.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Royal Saudi Navy vs. Iranian Navy... could happen?
« Reply #49 on: April 29, 2015, 11:14:16 PM »
The right to practice Judaism is enshrined in the Iranian constitution.  One member of parliament must be Jewish.

But must he be ingenious?
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