Author Topic: Boiled bones show Aztecs butchered, ate invaders  (Read 6285 times)

Norris

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Boiled bones show Aztecs butchered, ate invaders
« on: August 24, 2006, 04:26:03 PM »
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Boiled bones show Aztecs butchered, ate invaders

http://www.raidersnewsupdate.com/lead-story397.htm

By Catherine Bremer

Skeletons found at an unearthed site in Mexico show Aztecs captured, ritually sacrificed and partially ate several hundred people traveling with invading Spanish forces in 1520.

Skulls and bones from the Tecuaque archeological site near Mexico City show about 550 victims had their hearts ripped out by Aztec priests in ritual offerings, and were dismembered or had their bones boiled or scraped clean, experts say.

The findings support accounts of Aztecs capturing and killing a caravan of Spanish conquistadors and local men, women and children traveling with them in revenge for the murder of Cacamatzin, king of the Aztec empire's No. 2 city of Texcoco.

Experts say the discovery proves some Aztecs did resist the conquistadors led by explorer Hernan Cortes, even though history books say most welcomed the white-skinned horsemen in the belief they were returning Aztec gods.

"This is the first place that has so much evidence there was resistance to the conquest," said archeologist Enrique Martinez, director of the dig at Calpulalpan in Tlaxcala state, near Texcoco.

"It shows it wasn't all submission. There was a fight."

The caravan was apparently captured because it was made up mostly of the mulatto, mestizo, Maya Indian and Caribbean men and women given to the Spanish as carriers and cooks when they landed in Mexico in 1519, and so was moving slowly.

The prisoners were kept in cages for months while Aztec priests from what is now Mexico City selected a few each day at dawn, held them down on a sacrificial slab, cut out their hearts and offered them up to various Aztec gods.

Some may have been given hallucinogenic mushrooms or pulque -- an alcoholic milky drink made from fermented cactus juice -- to numb them to what was about to happen.

TEETH MARKS

"It was a continuous sacrifice over six months. While the prisoners were listening to their companions being sacrificed, the next ones were being selected," Martinez said, standing in his lab amid boxes of bones, some of young children.

"You can only imagine what it was like for the last ones, who were left six months before being chosen, their anguish."

The priests and town elders, who performed the rituals on the steps of temples cut off by a perimeter wall, sometimes ate their victims' raw and bloody hearts or cooked flesh from their arms and legs once it dropped off the boiling bones.

Knife cuts and even teeth marks on the bones show which ones had meat stripped off to be eaten, Martinez said.

Some pregnant women in the group had their unborn babies stabbed inside their bellies as part of the ritual.

In Aztec times the site was called Zultepec, a town of white-stucco temples and homes where some 5,000 people grew maize and beans and produced pulque to sell to traders.

Priests had to be brought in for the ritual killings because human sacrifices had never before taken place there, Martinez said.

On hearing of the months-long massacre, Cortes renamed the town Tecuaque -- meaning "where people were eaten" in the indigenous Nahuatl language -- and sent an army to wipe out its people.

When they heard the Spanish were coming, the Zultepec Aztecs threw their victims' possessions down wells, unwittingly preserving buttons and jewelry for the archeologists.

The team, which began work here in 1990, also found remains of domestic animals brought from Spain, like goats and pigs.

"They hid all the evidence," said Martinez. "Thanks to that act, we have been allowed to discover a chapter we were unaware of in the conquest of Mexico."

grampster

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Boiled bones show Aztecs butchered, ate invaders
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2006, 04:59:43 PM »
And what makes anyone believe that human beings are not any less ruthless and murderous today?

Oh, yeah.....Leftists.  Let's talk, hold hands, apologize and sing songs.

Has anyone seen that large black pot?
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Ron

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Boiled bones show Aztecs butchered, ate invaders
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2006, 05:32:09 PM »
So much for the "Noble Savage".

The only thing worse than my conservative friends longing for the old days (50's) is the silly leftists glorifying ancient culture as superior.

Guest

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Boiled bones show Aztecs butchered, ate invaders
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2006, 05:40:29 PM »
The fact that the Aztecs were ritualistic canibals was never a secret, the only news here is that they actually managed to eat some Spaniards.

mfree

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Boiled bones show Aztecs butchered, ate invaders
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2006, 05:44:27 PM »
So that's what killed off the aztecs.... chronic heartburn from all that spicy spanish.

Standing Wolf

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Boiled bones show Aztecs butchered, ate invaders
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2006, 05:45:25 PM »
Hah! That's nothing! America is cannibalizing itself.
No tyrant should ever be allowed to die of natural causes.

pawcatch

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Boiled bones show Aztecs butchered, ate invaders
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2006, 07:40:25 PM »
I honestly don't see how this degrades the Aztecs.
Was this unacceptable in their culture?Was it illegal at the time?
They were simply defending what was theirs at the time and making use of a resource.
How is this any worse than eating processed junk foods?
Were their heart disease rates any higher than modern-day America?
Or obesity?
Or diabetes?

Seriously,I object to cannibalism and the murder od pregnant women,but how is this worse than what the spanish did?

Guest

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Boiled bones show Aztecs butchered, ate invaders
« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2006, 07:54:35 PM »
Good for them. Ever look at  non-highschool history accounts of the "New World" genocides?
If I had been alive back then I would have killed and eaten every European I saw as well.

280plus

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Boiled bones show Aztecs butchered, ate invaders
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2006, 12:19:29 AM »
Quote
Good for them. Ever look at  non-highschool history accounts of the "New World" genocides?
If I had been alive back then I would have killed and eaten every European I saw as well.
I was thinking the same thing. LOL...

Most people do not realize that at one time in certain portions of the world there was actually TRADE in human flesh and bones. Skulls were pretty big. They literally had places where you could go to just like a deli with human flesh cured and hanging for sale. One term I've heard for it was "long pork". Fingers were considered snack food.

Don't worry, plenty of Europeans made it into the "pot" just not enough, from what I understand Europeans were a little salty from all the salted meats they ate. The CHINESE on the other hand were considered to be much better fare.

OK, who wants a sandwich? (I mean SAMMICH)

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280plus

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Boiled bones show Aztecs butchered, ate invaders
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2006, 12:47:10 AM »
I wouldn't glorify ancient culture over ours, but I can't really glorify ours over ancient culture either. Heck in their minds if we kill a human and bury it, we're wasting FOOD!

Wink

Oh, I DID recently see a thing on cannibalism on Discovery IIRC that mentioned a tribe that was passing along a "Mad Cow" type disease from eating human flesh. I think it was in the 50's.

There's STILL a few cannibals out there.
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Iain

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Boiled bones show Aztecs butchered, ate invaders
« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2006, 01:11:30 AM »
280 - Kuru
I do not like, when with me play, and I think that you also

280plus

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« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2006, 01:39:59 AM »
Thanks Iain.
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roo_ster

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Boiled bones show Aztecs butchered, ate invaders
« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2006, 02:28:05 AM »
Quote from: pawcatch
I honestly don't see how this degrades the Aztecs.
Was this unacceptable in their culture?Was it illegal at the time?
They were simply defending what was theirs at the time and making use of a resource.
How is this any worse than eating processed junk foods?
Were their heart disease rates any higher than modern-day America?
Or obesity?
Or diabetes?

Seriously,I object to cannibalism and the murder od pregnant women,but how is this worse than what the spanish did?
Quote from: ccwolff
Good for them. Ever look at  non-highschool history accounts of the "New World" genocides?
If I had been alive back then I would have killed and eaten every European I saw as well.
I guess you say that I come from the other side of the table on this issue.

I have zero problem with the way that the conquistadores threw down Aztec "civilization," such as it was.  I am glad that such vile, evil practices and beliefs were stamped out and ground into the dust.

If you don't see the problem with how the Aztecs treated prisoners...I would not trust you to watch my dog, let alone make a moral decision of any weight.
Regards,

roo_ster

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----G.K. Chesterton

Norris

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Boiled bones show Aztecs butchered, ate invaders
« Reply #13 on: August 25, 2006, 02:40:06 AM »
Quote from: ccwolff
Good for them. Ever look at  non-highschool history accounts of the "New World" genocides?
The tribes engaged in genocide and torture long before the Europeans arrived. Many tribes were cannibalistic. It wasn't Whiteys fault.

http://www.catherinedold.com/fcannibals.htm

http://archives.cnn.com/2000/NATURE/09/06/american.cannibals.ap/index.html

280plus

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Boiled bones show Aztecs butchered, ate invaders
« Reply #14 on: August 25, 2006, 02:45:05 AM »
You know, I have to admit, I never thought about it THAT way. What if hstory or fate had led things the other way. With the cannibalistic societies discovering and overtaking Europe instead, for example.

"Food" for thought. Tongue
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280plus

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« Reply #15 on: August 25, 2006, 02:46:07 AM »
No, whitey just became additions to the menu.
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280plus

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Boiled bones show Aztecs butchered, ate invaders
« Reply #16 on: August 25, 2006, 02:47:21 AM »
And really, the outcome all boils down to iron. We had iron they were still using sticks and stones.

I've always held the perspective of scientific / historic / psychological interest in this subject. I examined it as being a historical fact that I stumbled across and explored further. From it I can see how people like Dahmer, Gein, Sam Berkowitz and all the others can derive the twisted ideas they come up with because it all goes back to the origins of human nature. The question becomes did these tendencies and beliefs develop from within these modern day serial killers independently with no outside influence or were they the result of the twisting of some external historical information they had received somewhere along the way?
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cordex

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Boiled bones show Aztecs butchered, ate invaders
« Reply #17 on: August 25, 2006, 06:22:43 AM »
Lawdog has a really good entry on the Aztecs.

280plus

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« Reply #18 on: August 25, 2006, 08:24:00 AM »
Thanks cordex, good read from lawdog as always...
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JAlexander

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Boiled bones show Aztecs butchered, ate invaders
« Reply #19 on: August 25, 2006, 08:26:15 AM »
When they were bad, they were very, very, very bad.  Occasionally they were good.  F'r instance, their agricultural practices were pretty cool.  And even the Spaniards said that Tenochtitlan was the marvel of the world when they entered it.  Apparently in terms of cleanliness, orderliness, and beauty, Tenochtitlan was something to see.  Well, it was a marvel except for the religious quarter.  However,  I've read that when one got near to the temples you could smell them, and the Spaniards were really appalled when they saw the priests of Tlaloc wearing human skins.  Being appalled the way that they were, they razed the city and did their dead level best to destroy the Aztecs.  They took some gold, too, but it was really about converting the natives to Christianity for the greater glory of God.  And gold.

Now if we want to talk about someone who really made out like a bandit, there's always Pizarro.  Pizarro captured Atahualpa, the ruler of the Inca, and apparently got along with him fairly well.  Pizarro told Atahualpa that he could go free if he filled a room with gold to the height of a man (or something like that) and another two with silver.  Atahualpa obliged Pizarro, whereupon Pizarro executed Atahualpa.  Pizarro did all this with 200 Spaniards, versus the entire Incan army of fifty to one hundred thousand men.  Now that is impressive.

It's worth noting that both Nahuatl and Quechua are still widely-spoken languages in Mexico and South America, as are the various Mayan dialects.

James

Perd Hapley

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Boiled bones show Aztecs butchered, ate invaders
« Reply #20 on: August 25, 2006, 09:34:36 AM »
Quote from: GoRon
So much for the "Noble Savage".

The only thing worse than my conservative friends longing for the old days (50's) is the silly leftists glorifying ancient culture as superior.
Been there, done that.  I think old white folks tend to forget some of the racial problems of those days, as well as some of the technological inconveniences they probably used to complain about.
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280plus

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Boiled bones show Aztecs butchered, ate invaders
« Reply #21 on: August 25, 2006, 11:27:09 AM »
The thing was that all over South America and the Southern Pacific the natives had a legend that said at some point white Gods would come sailing out of the sky and come to rule the area. So when they see white men coming from over the horizon in ships it looks to them just as if they came sailing out of the sky. So they WERE Gods as far as the natives were concerned. This greatly aided the Spanish in their endeavors. That's why 200 of them could lway waste to he Inca. It seems to me to be such an ironic twist of fate that these legends existed and one day came true, so to speak. Gruesome history yes but all the while fascinating at the same time.
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280plus

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« Reply #22 on: August 25, 2006, 11:29:53 AM »
I love Lawdog's take on the Aztec chief seeing the eagle with the snake in it's claws and taking it as "a sign from God". It's akin to the medicine man who waits till he sees signs of rain on the horizon before he starts to do his rain dance. Wink
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ccwolff

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Boiled bones show Aztecs butchered, ate invaders
« Reply #23 on: August 25, 2006, 01:54:48 PM »
Quote
If you don't see the problem with how the Aztecs treated prisoners...I would not trust you to watch my dog, let alone make a moral decision of any weight.
If you don't see the problem with how the europeans treated the natives...I would not trust you to watch my dog, let alone make a moral decision of any weight.

Right back at ya! Wink

Quote
The tribes engaged in genocide and torture long before the Europeans arrived.
As did every other culture on this planet... "Including" Whitey. Point is that does not morally excuse what was done to them by "Whitey".
The White man and the Christian god are not superior to any one. In fact by their actions they prove themselves to be just like the "savages".
Sorry if that upsets you. Wink

BTW... The genocide of the "New World" began long before Cortez and the Aztecs.

Try Columbus and the Caribbean. Ever wonder why the people on those islands today have a distinctly black hue...it not because Africans are really good swimmers. Wink

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Boiled bones show Aztecs butchered, ate invaders
« Reply #24 on: August 25, 2006, 02:49:54 PM »
Quote from: 280plus
The question becomes did these tendencies and beliefs develop from within these modern day serial killers independently with no outside influence or were they the result of the twisting of some external historical information they had received somewhere along the way?
Or perhaps we all experience these drives and desires but a "normal" and "civilized" person has a set of "filters" (either natural/evolutionary or artificially imposed by their upbringing) that keeps them beneath the conscious mind. People like Dahmer lack that ability.