Author Topic: Boiled bones show Aztecs butchered, ate invaders  (Read 6283 times)

garyk/nm

  • friend
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 498
  • shovelbum
Boiled bones show Aztecs butchered, ate invaders
« Reply #25 on: August 25, 2006, 03:43:34 PM »
As an archaeologist, I would have to say that, without reading the entire site write-up, that making this kind of sweeping claim about a prehistoric people, based on a handful of bones,  is absolute, unadulterated donkey doo-doo.  
Bones don't talk. Nor do they record photographic images. Making this kind of claim about how a people acted, based on a few bones, is the kind of thing that gets your career flushed down the toilet.
Take it with as many grains of salt as you wish.

lupinus

  • Southern Mod Trimutive Emeritus
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 9,178
Boiled bones show Aztecs butchered, ate invaders
« Reply #26 on: August 25, 2006, 06:45:49 PM »
I don't judge a people by our modern standards.  If you do every major figure in history (or at least the vast majority) would be a sicko freak child molestor slave trading racist murderor.  Considering it was at many times in history perfectly acceptable to kill a man for insulting you or in a formal duel your bride was often 12 or 13 and slaves were common place.

By our standards almsot every man up untill a hundred to a hundred and fifty years ago would have been a child rapist.  And most through history, including our founding fathers, guilty of keeping people as slaves.

The times you live in dictate what is acceptable.  I am sure in a few hundred years at us and consider us barbarions, except for the ones that understand you live by the culture of your times.
That is all. *expletive deleted*ck you all, eat *expletive deleted*it, and die in a fire. I have considered writing here a long parting section dedicated to each poster, but I have decided, at length, against it. *expletive deleted*ck you all and Hail Satan.

Matthew Carberry

  • Formerly carebear
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5,281
  • Fiat justitia, pereat mundus
Boiled bones show Aztecs butchered, ate invaders
« Reply #27 on: August 26, 2006, 11:59:01 AM »
Quote from: ccwolff
BTW... The genocide of the "New World" began long before Cortez and the Aztecs.

Try Columbus and the Caribbean. Ever wonder why the people on those islands today have a distinctly black hue...it not because Africans are really good swimmers. Wink
Columbus didn't intrude on some idyllic splendor.  When he landed it was in the middle of an imperialistic attempt by one cannibalistic warrior tribe (Carib) to conquer the entire region.  He was welcomed as a potential ally and liberator by their victims (Arawak).

I recommend the revision to the revisionist trend now ongoing in Archeology and History.  For example:

http://muweb.millersville.edu/~columbus/data/ant/ROYAL-01.ANT

or

"Constant Battles" Steven A. LeBlanc
"Not all unwise laws are unconstitutional laws, even where constitutional rights are potentially involved." - Eugene Volokh

"As for affecting your movement, your Rascal should be able to achieve the the same speeds no matter what holster rig you are wearing."

280plus

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 19,131
  • Ever get that sinking feeling?
Boiled bones show Aztecs butchered, ate invaders
« Reply #28 on: August 26, 2006, 01:01:04 PM »
Yea Gary, I'm just barely an archeologist and I was wondering a bit about their claims myself. Seems they inferred a lot from some bones but I figured they had evidence to support all this. I'd be curious to see it myself.
Avoid cliches like the plague!

Perd Hapley

  • Superstar of the Internet
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 61,466
  • My prepositions are on/in
Boiled bones show Aztecs butchered, ate invaders
« Reply #29 on: August 26, 2006, 04:02:57 PM »
Quote from: lupinus
I don't judge a people by our modern standards.  If you do every major figure in history (or at least the vast majority) would be a sicko freak child molestor slave trading racist murderor.  Considering it was at many times in history perfectly acceptable to kill a man for insulting you or in a formal duel your bride was often 12 or 13 and slaves were common place.

By our standards almsot every man up untill a hundred to a hundred and fifty years ago would have been a child rapist.  And most through history, including our founding fathers, guilty of keeping people as slaves.

The times you live in dictate what is acceptable.  I am sure in a few hundred years at us and consider us barbarions, except for the ones that understand you live by the culture of your times.
Whether the girl is 12 or 22, there's an obvious difference between marrying her and raping or molesting her.  The very comparison is outrageous.  And it completely ignores that marriage was the only security in life for most women throughout most of history .  Not to mention that men often married young, too.  It also forgets that childbirth was more dangerous than today, so brides needed to be healthy.  And that most women weren't going to college or planning on careers, so they had little reason to wait.  Girls today are becoming sexually active at 12, anyhow, but without even the social benefits of marriage.  So who's the "barbarion"? [sic]

"Almost every man" owned slaves?  Not even close.  Even so, not all slavery was as bad as that of the transatlantic slave trade of modern times.  

I could be wrong on this point, but I'm not sure that killing a man in a duel would be murder, or that killing a man for an insult was ever acceptable in most cultures.  But I am sure the modern American culture I live in is barbarous in many ways.
"Doggies are angel babies!" -- my wife

lupinus

  • Southern Mod Trimutive Emeritus
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 9,178
Boiled bones show Aztecs butchered, ate invaders
« Reply #30 on: August 26, 2006, 06:16:45 PM »
fist-
I wasn't comparing child rape and molestation.  I said marriage and there are plenty of cases of a girl under 18 having sex with a man over 18, perfectly willingly, and the man getting in trouble for it.  I don't advocate breaking the law but my comparison was of willing consensual relations.  But then again considering most marriages of the time period were arranged with little if any consent of the girl as young as twelve perhaps it is fairer to say willing teenagers of today have more of a choice then teen girls married off.  

As to men marrying young to it depended on class, status, etc.  It was not uncommon among the higher edges of society for a man in his thirty's or even forties to marry a girl in her teens, and quite possibly even her young teens.  Fathers would sometimes even make their son wait until he had a solid footing in life so that he could command a better wife (and dowry) for his son.  Even in the American colonies a girl of 15 or 16 could easily marry a man in his mid 20's.

Marriages among the nobility and upper classes in history have often been far from anything related to love and much more often had more to do with politics, power moves, and money.  Daughters in some cultures were seen much as property to advance their fathers position through marriage.  Need to get that business partnership?  Cement it by marrying your daughter to him or his son.  Alliance between countries or factions?  Marry off a high born girl to a prince or king or noble.  Marriage for love was almost exclusively the domain of the peasants and a fairly modern notion among other classes.

Quote
"Almost every man" owned slaves?  Not even close.  Even so, not all slavery was as bad as that of the transatlantic slave trade of modern times.
You are partially right.  Poor people would be unlikely to own slaves and since most were poor I suppose I was off the mark in saying almost every man.  However, slavery was widely accepted as the way of the world up until recent times, and even after slavery was outlawed in many places it took much longer for the practice of indentured servitude to follow suit.  You are however wrong in that not all slavery was as bad as the more modern slavery in America, that simply isn't true.  Through history domestic slaves were treated well.  Domestic slaves can be defined as household or personal slaves- cooks, secretaries, etc.  If you study strictly household slaves in America they were treated pretty well to and getting into the masters house was something many slaves would have tried for.  On the other hand through all of history labor slaves were never treated well.  Regardless of if they worked fields, mines, quarries, etc.  They always had a tough time of it, if you were a Roman slave and sent to work the mines you had a life expectancy of about three months.  Slavery was never pretty and the rift and treatment of domestic and labor slaves was always as it was.  The reason why it seems so different is that our view of slaves in the ancient world, such as Rome and Greece, was that of the domestic slave.  And out view of the more modern (pre-civil war America) slave is that of the labor slave, even though there were plenty of domestic slaves as well.

Quote
I could be wrong on this point, but I'm not sure that killing a man in a duel would be murder, or that killing a man for an insult was ever acceptable in most cultures.  But I am sure the modern American culture I live in is barbarous in many ways.
Culture varied but in many without honor you were nothing, and even in cultures where that wasn't the case dueling was perfectly acceptable.  In France and much of Europe right until a few hundred years ago a duel was perfectly legal and even had rules.  It varied but the standard rules were basically an insult was committed, a challenge issued, a middle man for each man was chosen, and these middle men decided any terms on behalf of the combatants, and the duel took place a minimum of three days later so that they had a chance to cool down in the event of second thoughts.

In other cultures it worked differently.  The Vikings (and other barbarian tribes in general) held personal honor very high and had their own system for duels.  If two men were going to fight over an insult each man got three shield, if the shield was broken fighting stopped so the man could get his next shield, and depending on terms the fight would go until the three shields wore broken or until one man was dead.  There were several variations but that is it in basic.  You can see what is actually a pretty fair example of this in the movie The 13th Warrior.  

The Sarmatians (earlier inhabitants of Russian steps, similar to the Huns but a different people entirely) would fight duels from horseback and if a scepter holder (basically a nobleman who commanded others) DIDN'T avenge an insult by fighting his reputation was soiled and he had a good chance of loosing the confidence of most of his men.  This way of thinking was not uncommon either in the ancient or medieval pagan world.  Today what stained your pride at one time could cost you a lot if you let it go.

Through much of history in many cultures personal honor was something you did not insult unless you wanted to fight the man, possibly to the death.

Killing a man in cold blood was not acceptable and was indeed murder, but a formal witnessed duel was perfectly acceptable to the majority of cultures through history.
That is all. *expletive deleted*ck you all, eat *expletive deleted*it, and die in a fire. I have considered writing here a long parting section dedicated to each poster, but I have decided, at length, against it. *expletive deleted*ck you all and Hail Satan.

Perd Hapley

  • Superstar of the Internet
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 61,466
  • My prepositions are on/in
Boiled bones show Aztecs butchered, ate invaders
« Reply #31 on: August 26, 2006, 07:46:22 PM »
Quote from: lupinus
I wasn't comparing child rape and molestation.  I said marriage
If you weren't comparing pedophilia to marriage at a young age, then what on earth was your point?  Just admit you were egregiously wrong, and you will save yourself much typing.  I don't need to have my intelligence insulted with this lecture on marriage through the ages.  Don't worry, though, I'm not much on dueling, either, so I won't expect you to meet me at dawn.  I don't know if you can speak of dueling as murder, though.  

On slavery, yes your analysis seems correct, but the point remains that slavery may in fact have been much preferrable to the alternative in the ancient world; that is, being cut loose to fend for one's self.
"Doggies are angel babies!" -- my wife

lupinus

  • Southern Mod Trimutive Emeritus
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 9,178
Boiled bones show Aztecs butchered, ate invaders
« Reply #32 on: August 26, 2006, 07:59:35 PM »
Quote
If you weren't comparing pedophilia to marriage at a young age, then what on earth was your point?
That what at one point in history is seen as perfectly natural and acceptable at others can be turned into what is almost pure evil.  What you might call pedophilia a few hundred years ago was called a wedding night.  Hell in some places it still is perfectly acceptable.  If you were speaking of pedophilia strictly in the sense of young girls being more desirable then yes perhaps it is very close, if you are speaking of it from the sense of predation then it is very much different.

As to slavery being preferable of course it was if you could get bought by someone who wanted to keep you as a domestic slave, many masters even treated them particuarly well.  I for one would rather die, but different strokes for different folks and if someone would prefer to live life as a slave hey more power to um do what makes ya happy.
That is all. *expletive deleted*ck you all, eat *expletive deleted*it, and die in a fire. I have considered writing here a long parting section dedicated to each poster, but I have decided, at length, against it. *expletive deleted*ck you all and Hail Satan.

Guest

  • Guest
Boiled bones show Aztecs butchered, ate invaders
« Reply #33 on: August 26, 2006, 08:11:00 PM »
Quote
If you weren't comparing pedophilia to marriage at a young age, then what on earth was your point?
A 40 year old man who has sex with a 13 year old is a pedophile, regardless of what the legal status of their relationship is.

Perd Hapley

  • Superstar of the Internet
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 61,466
  • My prepositions are on/in
Boiled bones show Aztecs butchered, ate invaders
« Reply #34 on: August 27, 2006, 04:19:20 AM »
At what ages, Barbara, would it cease to be pedophilia, and why?  Is this based on physical age or on mental/psychological/emotional development?
"Doggies are angel babies!" -- my wife

Guest

  • Guest
Boiled bones show Aztecs butchered, ate invaders
« Reply #35 on: August 27, 2006, 04:45:27 AM »
Why don't you go the other way, since you're the one that claims its not pedophilia.

If an 8 year old is married to a 30 year old, is it ok if they have sex? 10? 12? 6? Where is the line?

If a 40 year old woman has sex with a 13 year old boy, is that ok?

280plus

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 19,131
  • Ever get that sinking feeling?
Boiled bones show Aztecs butchered, ate invaders
« Reply #36 on: August 27, 2006, 05:11:29 AM »
We're wrassling with a 29 yo guy and our friend's 19 YO ditzy daughter. My wife says "if he was 40 and she was 30 it'd be different but she's ONLY 19!". The problem is they develop women's bodies before they develop mature minds. "Bodies of women, minds of babies" And men, well, all they want to do is mate right from the start. It's really not their fault. When their young it can also be attributed to immature minds but as they get older some just never mature I guess. Then AGAIN neither do some women.

FWIW I can take you to a graveyard right now where a 35 yo man is buried next to his 16 yo wife. 1700's I believe. It was a matter of survival back then. They both had a better chance of survival together. IIRC he died less than a year after she did. The graveyard is said to be haunted, but not necessarily by them.

Coincidentally ditzy 19 yo is leaving for Navy BOOT CAMP Sept 4th so that little problem should work itself out fairly soon. Cheesy
Avoid cliches like the plague!

Perd Hapley

  • Superstar of the Internet
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 61,466
  • My prepositions are on/in
Boiled bones show Aztecs butchered, ate invaders
« Reply #37 on: August 27, 2006, 05:28:08 AM »
The burden of proof is not on me; it is on those claiming that a large percentage of marriages have been pedophilic.  It is for you, Barbara or lupinus, to defend this claim that marrying a twelve-year old is equal to child molestation, regardless of social norms.  I agree there is a line somewhere, but I'm not sure it's at 12.  Is 8 too young?  I think so, but I'm not qualified to say where the line should be.  Are either of you?

First of all, let's be clear that marriage is much different from run-of-the-mill pedophilia, regardless of age.  Marriage comes with commitment, the economic support of the husband, social approval, etc.  A publicly-acknowledged relationship, with the blessing of society, certainly is not to be compared with the predator who secretly defiles his victim, then convinces her it's "our little secret."  And naturally, a husband is not going to be concerned about covering up any resulting pregnancy - murdering the girl is perhaps the easiest way, and abortions can be dangerous, too.

Of course, that just means it's not as bad, but is it still pedophilia?  Perhaps we should first ask:  Are 13-year-olds always 13-year-olds?

Physically, I'm going to say "yes."  In recent years, some have claimed that girls are actually menstruating at an earlier age, but I don't know if this has been confirmed.  If proved, it wouldn't tell us about the maidens of two hundred or two thousand years ago.  Perhaps they bloomed even earlier.  Is childbirth too dangerous at such a young age?  I don't know.  

In more metaphysical realms, perhaps 13-year-olds have not always been 13-year-olds.  That is, if 13 years is considered adulthood, or at least an eligible age for marriage, the girl of yesteryear is likely to be more mature than her modern counterparts.  Consider the girl of 12th century France, or 9th century Turkey, just to choose at random.  Throughout her young life, she sees preteen girls becoming wives and mothers.  Perhaps she attends the weddings of her older sisters or cousins, as they are married off at 12, 15, what-have-you.  I'm not saying it's OK just because others do it.  I am saying that the social norms of a society might prepare girls for marriage and adulthood at a much younger age.  And this preparation wouldn't be the education of today; it would be caring for infants, domestic engineering, and so forth.  It would seem to me such societies went wrong in limiting women to the home, not in marrying them off so early.  The latter is simply a consequence of the former.

On the subject of 8 or 6-year-olds, though, can we assume that a girl married at such an age is really married?  Can't "married," in ancient societies, sometimes mean "betrothed"?  The betrothal was sometimes taken seriously enough, that the couple were spoken of as married, even when the girl still lived with her parents, and a full, legal divorce may have been required to break such an arrangement.
In the same vein, is it pedophilia to marry a very young girl, but wait to consumate the relationship?
"Doggies are angel babies!" -- my wife

280plus

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 19,131
  • Ever get that sinking feeling?
Boiled bones show Aztecs butchered, ate invaders
« Reply #38 on: August 27, 2006, 05:34:35 AM »
There was some information I heard once about how girls who have sex as teenagers are more prone to cervical cancer. Don't ask me for the source though. Then there's always the risk of STD that they would be exposed to earlier and therefore longer in life.
Avoid cliches like the plague!

lupinus

  • Southern Mod Trimutive Emeritus
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 9,178
Boiled bones show Aztecs butchered, ate invaders
« Reply #39 on: August 27, 2006, 05:43:45 AM »
Quote
It is for you, Barbara or lupinus, to defend this claim that marrying a twelve-year old is equal to child molestation, regardless of social norms.
That wasn't my claim at all, if that's how it came off my apologies and chalk it up to closing and then opening a store.  

My claim was that what is considered child molestation today was considered the norm many years ago.  Today ANY sexual relation with a person under 18, 16 in some states, is legally and morally considered child molestation and/or child rape.  In ancient times there was a very defiant line and understanding between the two, there isn't today.

What we must understand though too, is that was sex in marriage.  If some horny 20 something year old deflowered your 15 year old daughter without your consent in some society's (such as Roman) you were within your legal rights to kill him or make him marry her if you were the more cool headed type.  While it was perfectly acceptable to marry your daughter off as young as 12 (no not always that young, that was the legal minimum age, 14 or 15 was more common) a random guy just having sex with her was in no way acceptable.
That is all. *expletive deleted*ck you all, eat *expletive deleted*it, and die in a fire. I have considered writing here a long parting section dedicated to each poster, but I have decided, at length, against it. *expletive deleted*ck you all and Hail Satan.

Guest

  • Guest
Boiled bones show Aztecs butchered, ate invaders
« Reply #40 on: August 27, 2006, 06:26:06 AM »
I don't feel any need to provide evidence that a 40 year old having sex with a 12 year old is wrong, regardless of anything else. If you can't see that, there's no argument I'm going to make that will convince you.

Perverts have been around forever. Just used to be easier for them to get away with it.

280plus

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 19,131
  • Ever get that sinking feeling?
Boiled bones show Aztecs butchered, ate invaders
« Reply #41 on: August 27, 2006, 06:27:12 AM »
Quote
If some horny 20 something year old deflowered your 15 year old daughter without your consent in some society's (such as Roman) you were within your legal rights to kill him
Off with his HEAD!! BOTH of them!

Tongue
Avoid cliches like the plague!

Guest

  • Guest
Boiled bones show Aztecs butchered, ate invaders
« Reply #42 on: August 27, 2006, 06:27:16 AM »
Let's note, also. Girls are not pieces of property to be "married off" or "deflowered."

They are people, with rights. Although those rights were *expletive deleted*it on for centuries, that doesn't mean they didn't exist.

280plus

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 19,131
  • Ever get that sinking feeling?
Boiled bones show Aztecs butchered, ate invaders
« Reply #43 on: August 27, 2006, 06:29:33 AM »
Yea, I thoguht we were talking canninbalism here,,, Sheesh... Cheesy
Avoid cliches like the plague!

lupinus

  • Southern Mod Trimutive Emeritus
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 9,178
Boiled bones show Aztecs butchered, ate invaders
« Reply #44 on: August 27, 2006, 06:49:13 AM »
''Let's note, also. Girls are not pieces of property to be "married off" or "deflowered."

They are people, with rights. Although those rights were *expletive deleted*it on for centuries, that doesn't mean they didn't exist.''

As I said a judge a culture by it's culture not by my own.  So simply said it depends on the time and the culture.  Hell I know a few women that love being owned (even if not in the legal sense since we don't have one) by their husbands.  All things are relative to the culture you live in.

In our culture women have rights and are not property, in others they didn't.  All depends on where you lived and at what time.
That is all. *expletive deleted*ck you all, eat *expletive deleted*it, and die in a fire. I have considered writing here a long parting section dedicated to each poster, but I have decided, at length, against it. *expletive deleted*ck you all and Hail Satan.

Iapetus

  • friend
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 176
Boiled bones show Aztecs butchered, ate invaders
« Reply #45 on: September 08, 2006, 03:26:13 PM »
Quote from: pawcatch
I honestly don't see how this degrades the Aztecs.
Was this unacceptable in their culture?Was it illegal at the time?
They were simply defending what was theirs at the time and making use of a resource.
How is this any worse than eating processed junk foods?
Were their heart disease rates any higher than modern-day America?
Or obesity?
Or diabetes?

Seriously,I object to cannibalism and the murder od pregnant women,but how is this worse than what the spanish did?
I once heard someone say that he couldn't think of two groups of people [the Aztecs and the Conquistadors] who better deserved each other...


When it comes to judging other cultures for far off lands and long ago, I think a good thing to consider is whether the people doing things that seem barbaric to us were willing to have them done to themselves.

Contrary to what someone else said, duelling was actually illegal in most places and times.  However, it happened a lot anyway, because so many people were willing to risk their lives in duels.  If both parties hadn't placed their personal honour higher than their lives, the duels wouldn't have taken place.  (The British Army only managed to stop its officers duelling by denying pensions to the wives of those killed in duels, thereby making dying in a duel a dishonourable abandonment of your dependents).

Similarly, at feasts in ancient Celtic society, the great warriors would often fight each other to the death over the best portion of the meat.  Not because they were a bunch of thugs who'd kill other people in order to get the best food.  But because the best portion of the meat was a special privilege reserved for the greatest warrior, and if you were not willing to die fighting for such an honour, then you couldn't be considered a great warrior.  (Besides, the Celts believed life after death was guaranteed, so dying didn't really matter anyway).

So I would say that both these customs, despite seeming barbaric to modern eyes, were reasonable at the time.


On the other hand, the Aztecs conquered neighbouring peoples, and made them pay tribute in the form of tens of thousands of people to be sacrificed.  As the Aztecs were killing conquered peoples against their will, rather than willingly offering themselves, I would say that what they were doing was not acceptable.  It can't be justified by saying "that was what they did then in Mexico", any more than the Holocaust could be justified by saying "That was what they did in Germany in the 40s".

Incidentally, I believe part of the reason the Spanish conquered the Aztecs so easily was that there were so many other peoples who had been oppressed by the Aztecs, and who willing to ally with the Spanish in order to overthrow their hated enemies.

Stand_watie

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2,925
Boiled bones show Aztecs butchered, ate invaders
« Reply #46 on: September 08, 2006, 04:13:21 PM »
Quote from: Iapetus
...
On the other hand, the Aztecs conquered neighbouring peoples, and made them pay tribute in the form of tens of thousands of people to be sacrificed.  As the Aztecs were killing conquered peoples against their will, rather than willingly offering themselves, I would say that what they were doing was not acceptable.  It can't be justified by saying "that was what they did then in Mexico", any more than the Holocaust could be justified by saying "That was what they did in Germany in the 40s".

Incidentally, I believe part of the reason the Spanish conquered the Aztecs so easily was that there were so many other peoples who had been oppressed by the Aztecs, and who willing to ally with the Spanish in order to overthrow their hated enemies.
I'm neither a "noble savage" theorist, nor a Spanish empire apologist, and that's about my take on it too.
Yizkor. Lo Od Pa'am

"You can have my gun when you pry it from my cold dead fingers"

"Never again"

"Malone Labe"

publius

  • friend
  • New Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 97
Boiled bones show Aztecs butchered, ate invaders
« Reply #47 on: September 08, 2006, 05:33:57 PM »
Quote from: pawcatch
How is this any worse than eating processed junk foods?
Didn't you read it? They BOILED the meat! Boiled! Most processed junk foods are fried. Boiled meat is clearly worse than fried! Wink

mfree

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,637
Boiled bones show Aztecs butchered, ate invaders
« Reply #48 on: September 09, 2006, 09:13:34 AM »
"Bones don't talk. Nor do they record photographic images. Making this kind of claim about how a people acted, based on a few bones, is the kind of thing that gets your career flushed down the toilet. "

Being an archaeologist brings with it my respect. But, a forensic anthropologist will indeed tell you that bones *do* talk, and the type and depth of tool marks on the bones, the type of surface changes enacted with boiling versus burning or roasting with meat, and perhaps tooth or gnaw marks tell you exactly how that bone was treated before it was cast off.

Look for a book by a Dr. Maples titled "Dead Men Do Tell Tales". Fascinating stuff.

If there are processing tool marks, gnawing, and human teeth prints in a boiling-softened human bone, it's a safe assumption that the human was eaten by humans. If the bone matches the profile of a neighboring tribe instead of the interred bones of the local tribe, then it's a safe assumption that they were eating their neighbors.

280plus

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 19,131
  • Ever get that sinking feeling?
Boiled bones show Aztecs butchered, ate invaders
« Reply #49 on: September 10, 2006, 04:23:45 AM »
I went to a lecture by a guy who's last name is Owlsley (sp?). He is a national/global level archeologist/paleontologist (sp again?) whos cases include Dahmer's and other "neat stuff " like that. He was telling us about his investigation into the Hunsley recovery. He's basically the guy who picked the inside of that sub apart and recovered the skeletal remains of those Confederate sailors. For two hours he related to us the stories that those bones told him. It was fascinating.

On a side note. He told us about the research facility where they bury corpses to observe the decomposition process. It was named after the guy who initiated that kind of study, his name escapes me but his initials were "B A" so it's called the "B**** A***** Research Facility". The acronym?

"BARF"

Tongue
Avoid cliches like the plague!