Author Topic: Thoughts on motor scooters (Read 14579 times)

MillCreek · « **on:** June 17, 2008, 08:40:36 AM »

By way of background, I used to ride motorcycles 25-30 years ago. My largest bike was a Honda 350. I was primarily a fair-weather rider, so I could ride about 5-6 months out of the year here in Seattle. I sold my bike and gave away all my gear back in the late 80's. Working as a paramedic definitely influenced my view of motorcycle safety. I was fortunate and never crashed or even had to lay the bike down.

What with the price of gas and whatnot these days, I have been thinking about a larger (250 cc and up) motor scooter. Although this would be more expensive than the equivalent motorcycle, it would be easier for me to ride with the business suit and briefcase. It is about ten miles one way from the house to the office, and I have the option of either the freeway or surface streets. I would still probably be primarily a fair-weather rider.

I just signed up for the mid-September MSF basic course, since I figure that a refresher cannot hurt. If I do decide to buy a large scooter, I will of course buy the helmet and road-rash clothing again.

Any thoughts on scooter brands and models are welcome. I can already say that I am not going the eBay or cheap PRC-manufactured model route. I would probably be looking at Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki or Kymco. The European models such as Vespa are not what I would be looking for from a styling or size perspective.

Thanks for any ideas, and I am not really thinking about buying a large sport motorcycle or the like.

Firethorn · « **Reply #1 on:** June 17, 2008, 08:53:28 AM »

You know, that sounds a lot like my situation. I'm going to be taking the MSF course next week, but I don't even have motorcycle experience.

Given your description, you might want to consider some of the electric scooters out there. The more powerful ones that can get up to ~45mph aren't badly priced. You'd get the benefit of reduced maintenance and even cheaper fuel.

Of course, I was looking at a $8-10k electric motorcycle with a 75 mile range@45. Mostly because I have further to go and go faster, as most of my route is highway.

I'm waiting to complete the course before I start looking more at buying a bike.

MillCreek · « **Reply #2 on:** June 17, 2008, 09:38:42 AM »

Probably about 2-3 times per week, I have to go somewhere for work during the work day, such as to the hospital or one of our satellite clinics. So I could have an additional 20-40 miles of driving. Even with the Vectris electric scooter, costing $ 11,000, I would be concerned about running up against the range limits in a given day.

Not to mention that with all the hills in the Seattle area, anything under 250 cc. simply cannot stay up with traffic even on surface streets while going up a hill. I see these little 50 cc scooters that can only go 40 mph on the flat, and slow down to 15 or less on a hill. Even the 125 and 150 cc scooters slow down to what I think are dangerous speeds on a hill here. I would be looking at something that could hold 45 mph on a hill while carrying 200 lbs payload. When I have chatted with some people at the local motorcycle shops, they think that 250 cc would be the minimum. I have noticed that for scooters, 250, 400 and 500 cc seem to be the only engine sizes available at 250 cc and over.

Firethorn · « **Reply #3 on:** June 17, 2008, 10:13:51 AM »

What about http://www.evcusa.com/"" target="_blank">EVC?

Those are the bikes rated at 75 miles@45mph.

Don't forget, if you can get ahold of an outlet at work, they'll be up to 80% charge in a couple hours.

MillCreek · « **Reply #4 on:** June 17, 2008, 11:04:03 AM »

I just got back from the local Suzuki/Honda/Kawasaki dealership. A 2008 Burgman 400 is going for about $ 6000 and they only had one. Ay caramba! The salesrep also said that Honda has stopped making the Reflex series in 2007. The only large scooter made by Honda anymore is the Silver Wing series. Yamaha has stopped making the Morpheus.

So for large scooters, it seems that only the Suzuki Burgman, Honda Silver Wing, Yamaha Majesty and TMax are all that are available from the Big Three manufacturers. That would be 400, 600, 395 and 499 cc, respectively. Wow, I had not realized my choices were so narrow.

Ryan in Maine · « **Reply #5 on:** June 17, 2008, 11:22:15 AM »

I've been looking at a motorcycle or scooter for the summer myself. For a motorcycle, I dig the entry level Honda Rebel and Honda Nighthawk. I know someone with an '08 Rebel getting 80ishmpg commuting from outside of town. She has a rack attachment that carries her gear securely.

For 250cc scooters, I like Honda's Reflex series. So far I haven't checked out any other companies though. Honda's Silver Wing series is awesome too, if you want to break the bank.

I'm actually interested in the Honda Ruckus for a scooter since I live in a small town. I don't have to worry about going faster than 30mph and 100mpg would save me a lot of money.

cheesy

bedlamite · « **Reply #6 on:** June 17, 2008, 12:04:22 PM »

Handling on scooters sucks. For around town 2 wheeled transportation the DRZ400SM can't be beat.

Larry Ashcraft · « **Reply #7 on:** June 17, 2008, 12:33:31 PM »

I'm not really a veteran biker, but I put 26,000 miles on my Honda CX500 Custom from 1979 to about 1985.

I've always felt much safer on a big, flashy and loud motorcycle. Also, with larger wheels and tires the centrifugal forces make the bike much more stable at speed.

My Honda would get between 50 and 60 MPG.

Bogie · « **Reply #8 on:** June 17, 2008, 01:01:54 PM »

Anything out there with an automatic? Bone spurs in/around my left ankle pretty much make me cringe at the thought of a buncha shifting. And I don't wanna do a suicide...

Leatherneck · « **Reply #9 on:** June 17, 2008, 01:55:05 PM »

Open question without implied criticism:

Does the cost of gas now or in the next year really justify spending $6,000 to $10,000 on a new ride?

Other factors aside, such as enjoying a two-wheeler, parking ease, etc., it seems to me that avoiding purchasing new wheels is also a reasonable approach to dealing with $4-5 per gallon gas.

TC

MillCreek · « **Reply #10 on:** June 17, 2008, 02:25:26 PM »

For me, there would also be the fun factor. Similar to how I enjoy bicycling. On a strict cost-effectiveness basis, there is no way I could justify buying something at that price level, given that I would only be riding it half the year. The savings on gas would still lead to a pretty long pay-back period, in my view.

MillCreek · « **Reply #11 on:** June 17, 2008, 02:27:42 PM »

Quote from: Bogie on June 17, 2008, 12:01:54 PM

Anything out there with an automatic? Bone spurs in/around my left ankle pretty much make me cringe at the thought of a buncha shifting. And I don't wanna do a suicide...

From my research, I think that almost all the motor scooters currently sold in the USA have a continuously variable transmission, and as such, all you do is twist the throttle and go. There are no clutches or shift levers. Certainly all the large scooters I was looking at have a CVT.

Firethorn · « **Reply #12 on:** June 17, 2008, 04:43:32 PM »

Quote from: MillCreek on June 17, 2008, 01:25:26 PM

For me, there would also be the fun factor. Similar to how I enjoy bicycling. On a strict cost-effectiveness basis, there is no way I could justify buying something at that price level, given that I would only be riding it half the year. The savings on gas would still lead to a pretty long pay-back period, in my view.

Looking for the fun factor as well.

garyk/nm · « **Reply #13 on:** June 17, 2008, 06:30:32 PM »

I have been considering a scooter as an alternative for the daily commute like some of the rest of you. If you are looking for maximum MPG, forget the "fun factor". The two simply do not coexist. If you want a good compromise, consider a small sport bike (Ninja 250, etc). For me, with a 4 mile r/t commute, a smallish scooter makes the best sense. My DD is an 06 MINI Cooper S, which averages 26 MPG on my commute. That may seem great mileage to some, but there is better to be had. Any thoughts on the cheaper scooters out there? I've seen the Chicom specials for under 2 grand, but maint and parts availability have me concerned.

MillCreek · « **Reply #14 on:** June 17, 2008, 06:50:38 PM »

From my research on the Net, it seems like the scooters manufactured in the PRC seem to enjoy a fairly low reputation. Geely and Janon are two of the best known brands, and reliability, parts and service seem to be a nightmare. I have read a lot of posts from people who bought them via eBay and complain a lot when they need work.

MillCreek · « **Reply #15 on:** June 18, 2008, 05:58:04 AM »

Out of curiosity, I called the sales rep back at the Honda/Suzuki/Kawasaki dealership to ask about the entry-level 250 cc cruisers from Honda and Suzuki. Sold out. Sold out for months, Honda and Suzuki are out of stock, and no one knows when the next shipment will come in. Now if I wanted to buy a liter bike, they have several on the floor, and I could ride out the door on one today. Sheesh.

coppertales · « **Reply #16 on:** June 18, 2008, 06:29:17 AM »

The new Popular Mechanics has a run down on mid sized motorcycles, Kaw, Suz, Yam, HD. They all get around 50 mpg and have plenty of power for hiway riding. They are prices right in the price range of the larger scooters too. I have a 25 year old Kawasaki KZ1100 that gets 40 mpg in town and over 50 on the hiway. Price last year, 525 bucks......chris3

tokugawa · « **Reply #17 on:** June 18, 2008, 06:57:00 AM »

Millcreek, you might want to see what Moto International has, they are an Aprilia dealer over on Aurora Ave.

MillCreek · « **Reply #18 on:** June 18, 2008, 07:05:32 AM »

Man, there sure seems to be a real shortage of motorcycle models under 650 cc. I see a couple of dual sport models at 400 cc. I am no doubt dating myself horribly, but when I last rode 25 years ago, there were lots of street motorcycles in the 250-400 cc range. What the heck happened? Is there no money to be made under the 650 cc displacement?

Firethorn · « **Reply #19 on:** June 18, 2008, 07:54:13 AM »

I think that bikes suffer from the same things cars have - due to cheap gas they got larger and more powerful over time. SUVs were favored over cars, bikes with 1L engines favored over those with half that.

Now, with the gasoline crunch you can actually make the case that a motorcycle or scooter is much more economical, so more people are moving into them. This has swamped supply. It'll be a while before they retool and have them.

I know I've seen a lot more around than I did four years ago.

mgdavis · « **Reply #20 on:** June 18, 2008, 12:00:06 PM »

There are a few 500cc parallel twin street bikes out there, like the Kawasaki Vulcan 500 LTD and Ninja 500R, or the Suzuki GS500F, but by and large the smaller displacement bikes have disappeared from the USA.

Like everything else, bigger has become better. It's the same reason that we don't get all the micro-cars that are available in Europe and Asia. Blame it on Tim "The Toolman" Taylor and his ilk: "More power" has become the call of the American consumer.

charby · « **Reply #21 on:** June 18, 2008, 12:05:27 PM »

Get an 883 Harley Sportster. Base model is $6700 and gets over 50mpg, probably close to 60.

Brad Johnson · « **Reply #22 on:** June 18, 2008, 12:12:17 PM »

Honda Nighthawk. Available from 400cc to 750cc and produced for the better part of two decades. I just searched evilbay and came up with a bunch of clean low-mile examples, most for under $1500 and several for under $1000.

Brad

Antibubba · « **Reply #23 on:** June 18, 2008, 06:39:09 PM »

Quote

I just got back from the local Suzuki/Honda/Kawasaki dealership. A 2008 Burgman 400 is going for about $ 6000 and they only had one. Ay caramba! The salesrep also said that Honda has stopped making the Reflex series in 2007. The only large scooter made by Honda anymore is the Silver Wing series. Yamaha has stopped making the Morpheus.

So for large scooters, it seems that only the Suzuki Burgman, Honda Silver Wing, Yamaha Majesty and TMax are all that are available from the Big Three manufacturers. That would be 400, 600, 395 and 499 cc, respectively. Wow, I had not realized my choices were so narrow.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding about what you want, but what is it you'll be doing with a scoot that can't be accomplished with 150 or 250cc?

I've been pricing scooters lately, and looking at the MSF course. The Kymco 150s are about $2600. The Bajaj are a bit lower.

Quote

seems like the scooters manufactured in the PRC seem to enjoy a fairly low reputation. Geely and Janon are two of the best known brands, and reliability, parts and service seem to be a nightmare. I have read a lot of posts from people who bought them via eBay and complain a lot when they need work

The local scooter guy says he'll service any scooter that wasn't made in China. He has some of the Bajaj, which are made in India. Can you imagine how bad the PRC bikes must be when Indian technology is greatly superior?

MillCreek · « **Reply #24 on:** June 18, 2008, 06:51:42 PM »

Locally, there are no scooters sold in the 150-250 cc range, unless I go to downtown Seattle and buy a 250 cc Vespa for $ 4500. There is only one Kymco dealer, and all he has is 50 cc models. Honda, Suzuki and Yamaha don't sell any in this displacement range. There seems to be a major hole: lots of 50 cc, a few 125 cc by Yamaha, and then it goes up to a minimum of 400 cc with the Suzuki. If I am overlooking any reputable brands and models, please let me know.

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Author Topic: Thoughts on motor scooters (Read 14579 times)