Author Topic: How is Obama able to be vetted for security clearances?  (Read 14623 times)

Harold Tuttle

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Re: How is Obama able to be vetted for security clearances?
« Reply #25 on: October 22, 2008, 04:57:01 PM »
Smoking pot makes you lose vowels? ;)

Pot Smoking gives you loose vowels
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Manedwolf

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Re: How is Obama able to be vetted for security clearances?
« Reply #26 on: October 22, 2008, 04:58:43 PM »
Pot Smoking gives you loose vowels

I thought that's what occured when they get the munchies, and, in a pot-addled brain fog, devour an entire bag of WOW chips?

Waitone

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Re: How is Obama able to be vetted for security clearances?
« Reply #27 on: October 22, 2008, 05:25:03 PM »
Never hindered Clinton the Male.  Why should it hinder the Messiah?
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De Selby

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Re: How is Obama able to be vetted for security clearances?
« Reply #28 on: October 22, 2008, 07:29:24 PM »
They should prosecute under the espionage statute for some of those congressional leaks. 

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roo_ster

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Re: How is Obama able to be vetted for security clearances?
« Reply #29 on: October 22, 2008, 08:53:35 PM »
They should prosecute under the espionage statute for some of those congressional leaks. 

Yes, indeed.

Although, the last few years the leakiest organs of gov't have been the CIA and State Dept.
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roo_ster

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RevDisk

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Re: How is Obama able to be vetted for security clearances?
« Reply #30 on: October 22, 2008, 10:19:56 PM »
Do Congresscritters have to get clearances? Or is that also just conferred by the job?

Technically speaking, a clearance can be granted without any background check or time limitations.  It's just extremely friggin rare, and pretty much exclusively due to political intervention.  On the flip side, a clearance can be revoked without cause or warning. 

The President is automatically assigned the highest possible access.  It comes with winning the election.  The standard "Above Presidential security clearance" is Hollywood BS.  There are no secrets, military or overwise, that the President does not have automatic Need To Know.  The counter weight to this is impeachment, and that's about it.

On the flip side, Congress is required by the Constitution to handle all funding.  Since all government activities cost some amount of money, they also have Need To Know on any classified projects.  Because the projects have some cost.   Making the entire Congress aware of the black budget would be a very bad idea.  So we have groups such as the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence(Link).   I'm not 100% positive, but I do believe requiring security clearances for the SSCI and such groups is un-Constitutional as it violates the seperation of powers.  You cannot have the Executive branch being able to hold security clearanes over the heads of the Legislative branch that controls the Executive budget.  Ergo, we the people provide the necessary 'clearance' for the Congresscritters.  In practice, Congresscritters police themselves on such things through committee membership.

However, un-elected staff members and such do require security clearances. 


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MicroBalrog

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Re: How is Obama able to be vetted for security clearances?
« Reply #31 on: October 22, 2008, 11:18:49 PM »
Serious question.

If anyone else had a history of cocaine use, associated with known domestic terrorists and extremists and still does, associated with foreign despots and even backed one, associated with and had business dealings with a convicted felon, associated with other extremists...

...would they be granted a Top Secret clearance?


Because you operate (rightly) on the assumption that anybody who is elected Leader of the Free World would not actually be working for a foreign power. And also, we operate (wrongly, as Obama shows) on the assumption the investigation given a candidate by his opponents and the press during the campaign period will be extremely thorough.

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Scout26

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Re: How is Obama able to be vetted for security clearances?
« Reply #32 on: October 22, 2008, 11:20:58 PM »
To Summarize:  Upon election he has been vetted by the Uhhhmerican People.
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


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MicroBalrog

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Re: How is Obama able to be vetted for security clearances?
« Reply #33 on: October 22, 2008, 11:28:54 PM »
To Summarize:  Upon election he has been vetted by the Uhhhmerican People.

I frankly trust the American people more than I trust some random bureaucrat giving out security clearances.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

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mtnbkr

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Re: How is Obama able to be vetted for security clearances?
« Reply #34 on: October 23, 2008, 12:08:26 AM »
I frankly trust the American people more than I trust some random bureaucrat giving out security clearances.

It's not exactly some random bureaucrat "giving out" security clearances.  The vetting process is more thorough than anything the "American people" do when deciding on a candidate.

Chris

MicroBalrog

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Re: How is Obama able to be vetted for security clearances?
« Reply #35 on: October 23, 2008, 12:17:26 AM »
It's not exactly some random bureaucrat "giving out" security clearances.  The vetting process is more thorough than anything the "American people" do when deciding on a candidate.

Chris

Fine. A group of unelected, anonymous bureaucrats.
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mtnbkr

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Re: How is Obama able to be vetted for security clearances?
« Reply #36 on: October 23, 2008, 07:16:23 AM »
Since you don't know what you're talking about, you should really stop now.

The "anonymous bureaucrats" go out into the field, interview anyone they can find who knows the subject (starting with the individuals the subject puts on their SF86), interview the subject, and make a determination based on the results of their research.  Each time they talk with someone, they give full disclosure and provide official ID.  If denied, the subject has a well defined process in which to dispute the denial and have it overturned if possible (including a panel of "bureaucrats" who weigh the subject's evidence against that found by their fellow "bureaucrats"). 

Chris

MicroBalrog

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Re: How is Obama able to be vetted for security clearances?
« Reply #37 on: October 23, 2008, 07:20:14 AM »
Quote
Since you don't know what you're talking about, you should really stop now.

Eh. I have been interviewed for clearance three times (denied each time). I can't imagine the process being much different down here ( I heard it actually imitates the US process) although to be fair they didn't need to talk to the people I put on my reference form to deny me (I did have to fill out an SF86 equivalent).

Look, I'm not saying that the process is flawed. It's a proper way to screen people for military position - weed out anybody who did drugs or did anything suspicious first, then talk to character references, weed out more people.

But we both know that you can't choose people for the Presidency based on that.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner