G98, Prophet for Our Times: Small-Car Buyers' Big Regrets

[Gewehr98]

My 2001 S-10 is a GSA fleet overrun.  No carpet, manual windows, bench seat, FM radio, and 5-speed.  Simple is good.   

[ramis]

Zed, you get 20mpg in town in that? For serious?

I don't understand why more people aren't interested in diesels.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/hot_lists/high_performance/vw_audi_central/2009_volkswagen_jetta_tdi_short_take_road_test

2009 Volkswagen Jetta TDI - Short Take Road Test

VW’s frugal new diesel leaves the Dead behind and heads for the mainstream.

BY TONY QUIROGA, PHOTOGRAPHY BY AARON KILEY AND THE MANUFACTURER
January 2009

 

Statistically, if you’re the owner of a Volkswagen diesel, you’re 189 percent more likely to have passed out at a Grateful Dead concert than the rest of the population, 92 percent more likely to have yelled, “Kind veggie burrito!” at one point in your life, and 61 percent more likely to have slept in a Volkswagen bus, or under one. Okay, maybe the numbers are a hair off.

Until recent gas prices awakened drivers to the whole finiteness of finite resources, Volkswagen diesel owners were a unique breed who put up with tepid acceleration in order to go farther on a gallon of fuel. Their diesel interest stemmed from a mix of stick-it-to-the-man frugality born of diesel’s ability to burn a variety of fuels and an iconoclastic resistance to the latest yuppie icon, the hybrid Toyota Prius. But now that frugality has reached the mainstream, the Jetta TDI may have what it takes to appeal to buyers who might confuse Jerry Garcia with a flavor of Ben & Jerry’s ice cream.

The frugalistas were out of luck for ’07 and ’08 as Volkswagen had to sit out the diesel game because it couldn’t meet the more stringent Tier 2 emissions laws that were imposed on all vehicles in 2007. While potential buyers resorted to scouring used-car listings for the VW diesel of their dreams, engineers were busy cleaning up the emissions of a thoroughly reworked 2.0-liter, turbo-diesel four-cylinder engine.

For 2009, the Jetta TDI gets a 140-hp turbo-diesel (40 more than the previous 1.9-liter engine) with 236 pound-feet of torque (59 more than before). The new engine is squeaky clean—enough so that it can be purchased in every state in the union. According to the EPA, the Jetta TDI achieves 29 mpg in the city and 40 on the highway, so we weren’t too surprised to get 33 mpg. What did surprise us was the TDI’s 8.1-second sprint from 0 to 60 mph, which was 2.2 seconds quicker than the ’06 Jetta TDI’s. In fact, this new TDI exactly matched the 0-to-60 and quarter-mile times of the last 170-hp, five-cylinder 2.5-liter gas-engined Jetta we tested. And that one even had a manual.

Put an unsuspecting driver in a Jetta TDI, and most wouldn’t think the car unusual in any way. The new 2.0-liter diesel feels far more powerful and refined than the previous 1.9-liter turbo-diesel engine. Power builds in a steady and linear manner, and although a whiff of turbo lag remains, it is far more tolerable than it was in the past. The massive torque increase makes passing easier, too, but the optional dual-clutch automated manual can be reluctant to downshift
on its own.

At $22,640 for a manual sedan, the ­diesel doesn’t qualify as cheap, but the feds are offering a $1300 income-tax credit for Jetta TDI buyers in recognition of the diesel’s advanced lean-burn technology. Free money? That, like the efficient Jetta TDI, will appeal to everyone.
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[red headed stranger]

My wife and I are going to be moving back to the states soon, and we have been checking out the used Truck/SUV prices.  We are amazed at what you can get now for under $10,000. 

[Manedwolf]

Diesels, yes. Volkswagens, with their arm-and-a-leg repair costs and endless electrical problems, no.

[Zed]

Zed, you get 20mpg in town in that? For serious? 

yep 18-20 depending on if their are any steep hills.

[seeker_two]

I'd love a small (Frontier-sized or smaller) truck with a diesel engine....too bad the enviro-weenies won't let them be imported.... 

[Zed]

I'd love a small (Frontier-sized or smaller) truck with a diesel engine....too bad the enviro-weenies won't let them be imported.... 

Yep, same for the Mitsubishi one.

[freedom lover]

I don't understand why more people aren't interested in diesels.

In my state diesel is much more expensive than gasoline. Its harder to start in the cold, too.

[Zed]

In my state diesel is much more expensive than gasoline. Its harder to start in the cold, too.

has been everywhere since last fall.

when I first got my truck Diesel was $2.39 a Gallon. nearly $1 less than gas, and just a few months back It was $4.89, currently it's $3.20 ish & Gas is down to $2.50

[Manedwolf]

If there wasn't so much stupid red tape, Honda would already be selling their nearly silent 50+MPG turbodiesel cars here. They're freaking all over Europe, and have been for years.

[Desertdog]

Quote from: ramis on Today at 12:19:15 AM
I don't understand why more people aren't interested in diesels.

Remember the Oldmobile diesel?  Have you ever compared the price of repairing the diesel compared to gas.

[41magsnub]

Remember the Oldmobile diesel?  Have you ever compared the price of repairing the diesel compared to gas.

That's not fair...  the Olds diesel just may be the worst engine ever made.  Wasn't it the gas 350 that was rebuilt as a diesel?  My dad had one of those in a 80'something Toronado that was a disaster.

[Iain]

Remember the Oldmobile diesel?  Have you ever compared the price of repairing the diesel compared to gas.

Remember the Model T engine? Top speed of 45mph or so. No-one should ever buy a gasoline engine.

[lupinus]

Wasn't it the gas 350 that was rebuilt as a diesel?

Durring the gas crunch when they starded offering diesels yet thats pretty much what they did.  Take a goline engine block and bottom end and stick on the right heads and make a few other quick modifications and you have a diesel....till the increased forces at work in a diesel engine tear that bottom end apart.

[roo_ster]

...I actually have no problem with cranked windows, I don't care about sound systems whatsoever anymore either. I positively hate automatic transmissions. I don't like my car to talk to me, automatically lock my doors, monitor my following distance, warn me about my seatbelt, or anything else.
...
I would gladly like to buy a larger, better performing car, but they all have gizmo features that I can't stand the thought of having paid for them, almost always with automatic transmissions...

Yep, when I went out last year to price new door 1/2 ton pickups, I immediately gravitated to the "work" or "fleet" iterations.  With two toddlers, things like rubber fllors and vinyl seats are a PLUS.

2. You can be as in-your-face as you want about my finding irony in a well-known and cyclical historical trend.

3. I bought a new 3.7L Jeep Liberty 4x4 in August.

4. Ford is scaling back on their V-8 production, instead focusing on producing V-8 horsepower and torque out of next-generation turbocharged V-6 engines, while maintaining the fuel economy of the latter.  I'd wager GM and Chrysler are probably doing something similar.

2. Lighten up, Francis.  I got a chuckle out of the comic when posted and another when I read the article in the OP.  There is humor because it is so, so true.  Levity.  Become acquainted with it sometime.

What you predicted is to be expected, if one believes price matters or has any bearing on the supply/demand curve.  Seeing it told in a real-life story, especially where the person went from one extreme to the other, is entertaining.  "Dammit!  I just bought this pregnant roller skate and now the payoff shifted from 5 years to 9.5 years.  I'd rather set my hair on fire and put it out with a golf shoe than drive this thing for 9 years."

Also, the use of "prophet" is not necessarily a supernatural occurrence.  A lot of "prophets" merely use their noggins and "forth-tell" rather than "fore-tell"  by explaining the logical consequences of actions.

3. A family friend bought one of the 1st-gen Liberties with the diesel.  He just plain loves it and thinks it is the bee's knees as far as the smaller SUVs.

4. Trading cubic inches for technical complexity.  I would prefer more diesels in 4, 6, and 8 cylinder flavors than just shaving two cylinders and slapping on a turbo.

[Gewehr98]

Unfortunately, FRANCIS, written text does oh so well when conveying levity, doesn't it?  :rolleyes:  (That's a rolleyes smiley, btw.  It's in the same family of smileys we use in original postings to show levity, etc...)

It's a common misconception that the GM small-block 350 was the basis of the failed Oldsmobile LF9 diesel. 

It was actually a separate design, albeit with the same bore and stroke as the gasoline 350. To say it had problems is probably an understatement. The Oldsmobile diesel engines are sometimes credited with almost permanently damaging the North American passenger diesel market.

Too bad, really.  I wanted one of the late-model 2.8L Jeep Liberty turbodiesels, myself.  The Detroit Diesel engines installed in that series of Liberties had gobs of torque and good fuel economy.  Unfortunately, now that they've been discontinued, they're getting rare as hen's teeth, and are also reported to be a clattering cacophany from inside as well as outside.  One would've thought Chrysler could take a clue from their previous Daimler-Benz owners and made a quiet diesel vehicle.   

http://www.allpar.com/model/jeep/liberty-review.html

[41magsnub]

Yep, when I went out last year to price new door 1/2 ton pickups, I immediately gravitated to the "work" or "fleet" iterations.  With two toddlers, things like rubber fllors and vinyl seats are a PLUS.

That's what my truck is essentially.  I custom ordered it, but it is basically the GM work truck 1/2 ton with the rubber floor and vinyll seats with the V6, manual transmission, extended cab, and manual locks/windows.  But..  it has 4x4, cruise, tilt steering, and AC which are the only things I wanted.  I love the thing, does everything I need.  I don't do a lot of towing so the V6 is just fine.

[Zed]

Too bad, really.  I wanted one of the late-model 2.8L Jeep Liberty turbodiesels, myself.  The Detroit Diesel engines installed in that series of Liberties had gobs of torque and good fuel economy.  Unfortunately, now that they've been discontinued, they're getting rare as hen's teeth, and are also reported to be a clattering cacophany from inside as well as outside.  One would've thought Chrysler could take a clue from their previous Daimler-Benz owners and made a quiet diesel vehicle.   

http://www.allpar.com/model/jeep/liberty-review.html

They also had a problem with Vibrating the transmission bolts off, and another with the fact that they used the same transmission as the gas models which would fail early due to the extra torque.

[seeker_two]

They also had a problem with Vibrating the transmission bolts off, and another with the fact that they used the same transmission as the gas models which would fail early due to the extra torque.

Geesh....I thought they'd have learned their lesson from all the Ram trucks w/ the Cummins diesels & gas transmissions they had to replace back in the '90's.... 

[Manedwolf]

Geesh....I thought they'd have learned their lesson from all the Ram trucks w/ the Cummins diesels & gas transmissions they had to replace back in the '90's.... 

Do not ever underestimate the stupidity of entrenched, useless, and immovable executives in committees.

BTW, the Big Three are now begging for a bailout because they can't make cars people want.

[doczinn]

I want a Toyota HiLux.

[MicroBalrog]

Do not ever underestimate the stupidity of entrenched, useless, and immovable executives in committees.

BTW, the Big Three are now begging for a bailout because they can't make cars people want.

Wanna bet that they'll get it?

[K Frame]

Actually, the auto makers WERE making the cars that people wanted to buy - trucks and SUVs.

That they can't change their manufacturing model, in a matter of weeks or months, to match the rapid spike in gas prices and increase in demand for gas sippers, isn't surprising. No heavy manufacturing industry can turn on a dime like that.

[Kwelz]

There are times I wish I had went with a Toyota or Honda over GM.  Especially given the current situation.  I love my Saturn but could have gotten better fuel economy out of a Camry or Accord. 

[Gewehr98]

Yeah, time will tell how the big V8 Toyota Tundra and Nissan Titan will fare, too.

None of the automotive manufacturers can turn around and retool their production at the drop of a dime.

They need something like an oil embargo or the recent jump in fuel prices to kick them into marketing reality.

Then, and only then, do they change gears. 

I'd love to be in a corporate boardroom meeting over the last couple weeks, as fuel prices have dropped.

Go big, or stay small?  FSPs, or fuel-sippers?