Author Topic: Leaving pets behind.  (Read 14555 times)

ilbob

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Re: Leaving pets behind.
« Reply #75 on: February 19, 2009, 10:53:46 AM »
As for the environment... I for one don't believe the purpose of my life is to be a steward of the environment. I believe the purpose of mankind is to make the world a better place for us humans. And if we need to bulldoze a rainforest or two to make it happen, then down it goes.
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Gewehr98

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Re: Leaving pets behind.
« Reply #76 on: February 19, 2009, 02:17:24 PM »
Would that be a whiff or queef from MicroBalrog?
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charby

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Re: Leaving pets behind.
« Reply #77 on: February 19, 2009, 02:35:18 PM »
Would that be a whiff or queef from MicroBalrog?

I'm fighting the urge not to reply right now...  :angel: :laugh:

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MicroBalrog

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Re: Leaving pets behind.
« Reply #78 on: February 19, 2009, 05:17:58 PM »
And another whiff from MicroBalrog.

No one said anything about stewarding the environment.

But even animals generally understand you don't *expletive deleted*it where you eat.

How does that have anything to do with the supposed immoral nature of man?

You argued that damaging the environment is in itself somehow inherently evil.

My argument is simple.

Humans damage the environment. It's what we do. We chop down trees and build houses. It's not possible for us to stop doing it (assuming the scientists are right) without reducing our standard of living leaps and bounds. But as long as we don't cut our own safety belts and go screaming and flailing over the dashboard, there's nothing to rend our hair about. I just don't see why I'm supposed to feel guilt about the fact I kill Amazon rainforests when I buy books.

As long, of course, as we don't do something like dropping various poisons into the rivers our children play it. THere's a difference between saying 'we're going to be still using this environment, so let's not drop poison into our own water supply' and saying 'all damage to the environment is evil inherently'.

The main argument you posed is that humanity is inherently evil and corrupt, and then used the fact that we develop new ways to kill each other and pollute the environment as proof of our evil. I'd think that there's better proof of this supposed evil than this.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2009, 05:27:02 PM by MicroBalrog »
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charby

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Re: Leaving pets behind.
« Reply #79 on: February 19, 2009, 05:38:09 PM »
How does that have anything to do with the supposed immoral nature of man?

You argued that damaging the environment is in itself somehow inherently evil.

My argument is simple.

Humans damage the environment. It's what we do. We chop down trees and build houses. It's not possible for us to stop doing it (assuming the scientists are right) without reducing our standard of living leaps and bounds. But as long as we don't cut our own safety belts and go screaming and flailing over the dashboard, there's nothing to rend our hair about. I just don't see why I'm supposed to feel guilt about the fact I kill Amazon rainforests when I buy books.

As long, of course, as we don't do something like dropping various poisons into the rivers our children play it. THere's a difference between saying 'we're going to be still using this environment, so let's not drop poison into our own water supply' and saying 'all damage to the environment is evil inherently'.

The main argument you posed is that humanity is inherently evil and corrupt, and then used the fact that we develop new ways to kill each other and pollute the environment as proof of our evil. I'd think that there's better proof of this supposed evil than this.

Carrying Capacity: Carrying capacity refers to the number of individuals who can be supported in a given area within natural resource limits, and without degrading the natural social, cultural and economic environment for present and future generations.

Man has artificially inflated the carrying capacity of the earth for the human race. We are using oil faster than it can be created. Oil is used for food production in fertilizers and equipment fuel. Someday when we can no longer artificially inflate food production life on earth is going to start to get pretty meager. Look how fast the world's population has grown since we started to use oil for everything.

If you think we can go willy nilly and burn the environment up for the pleasure of man, man's time on this planet will be shorter than it could have been. So yes it is inherently evil to shorten man's existence on this rock because you feel its our destiny to do whatever we please or your just greedy and stupid.


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Gewehr98

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Re: Leaving pets behind.
« Reply #80 on: February 19, 2009, 05:59:22 PM »
Destroy the Amazon Rain Forest, lose the world's biggest air filter and oxygen regenerator.

Read that book, and hold your breath.

Easy, ain't it?

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MicroBalrog

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Re: Leaving pets behind.
« Reply #81 on: February 19, 2009, 06:32:56 PM »
Quote
Man has artificially inflated the carrying capacity of the earth for the human race. We are using oil faster than it can be created. Oil is used for food production in fertilizers and equipment fuel. Someday when we can no longer artificially inflate food production life on earth is going to start to get pretty meager. Look how fast the world's population has grown since we started to use oil for everything.

You're assuming we're going to be using oil for these things forever.  We won't, just as we aren't using coal as the primary source of our energy any more.

Quote
If you think we can go willy nilly and burn the environment up for the pleasure of man, man's time on this planet will be shorter than it could have been. So yes it is inherently evil to shorten man's existence on this rock because you feel its our destiny to do whatever we please or your just greedy and stupid.

Nobody suggests that we can freely drop mercury into our rivers. But the thing is, we can't stop harming the environment. So the only thing we do is limit it in ways that are not directly harmful to us. In a century or less, we're not going to be restricted to this rock any more.

But that's not the point. The environment is not the point of my argument and really is but a distraction  from it.

Humans have been known to do both incredible evil and incredible good in their history. We all know about the evil - the Holocaust, the Congo, the First World War, god only knows what else. There's also been a lot of good – Norman Borlaug, Mother Theresa, Thomas Jefferson, individual rights, penicillin.

The question is, which of these is the defining feature of mankind?

Are we really like the guys in “Lord of the Flies”, trying to kill Ralph with a sharp stick?

Or are we more like the guys in, say, “Tunnel in the Sky”?

That is the question, I think.
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roo_ster

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Re: Leaving pets behind.
« Reply #82 on: February 19, 2009, 06:57:04 PM »
Pretty funny stuff.   :lol:

MB being the voice of pragmatism, common sense, and reason with the other side of the fence donning the sack cloth and engaging in self/humanity-flagellation.

I must side with MB on this one, wholeheartedly on the environment and mostly on human nature.

All this misanthropy, especially relative to our pets, is a little TMI.

[jest]Do please show the same restraint MB exercises in NOT posting visuals or links of his "sex-positive" exploits out in the open. 

Think of it as an analog to the "don't write about waging genocide in the middle east," but on a personal level. 

Wouldn't want the anti-RKBA types to think we're a bunch of people-hating, anti-social types any more than we want them thinking we're genocidal maniacs, kluxers, or unabomber-wanna-bes[/jest]

 :police:  <===== Misanthropy Patrol
Regards,

roo_ster

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Grandpa Shooter

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Re: Leaving pets behind.
« Reply #83 on: February 19, 2009, 07:00:39 PM »
How did a thread on pets get this far off track?  Beats me and I am the OP. :O

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Leaving pets behind.
« Reply #84 on: February 19, 2009, 07:20:53 PM »
Nobody suggests that we can freely drop mercury into our rivers. But the thing is, we can't stop harming the environment. So the only thing we do is limit it in ways that are not directly harmful to us. In a century or less, we're not going to be restricted to this rock any more.

in point of fact we have a history of dropping mercury and worse in our rivers. some parts of the world still do. and like second hand smoke its not confined.
as to us not being on this rock anymore in a century it could happen just not in the way you are imagining
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Ben

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Re: Leaving pets behind.
« Reply #85 on: February 19, 2009, 08:12:52 PM »
Well, it was a nice thread for the first couple of pages. Think I'll lock it now before the sidetracking completely overwhelms the good stuff.
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