Rare, experimental, vintage aircraft

[K Frame]

No 105s were mounted in B-25s during the war. Only 75s.

[Harold Tuttle]

60 rounds in the drum mags (they tended to jam with a full load at 71)
what is that at the cyclic rate of the PPSH?
900 rpm, so it empties in 15 seconds

so a 15 second burst emits 5280, 7.62x25mm Tokarev bullets at a ground speed of ~300mph

http://www.xs4all.nl/~fbonne/warbirds/ww2htmls/tupotu2.html#tupotu21

This was the ground-attack version of the Tu-2. Based on the Tu-2S, it was powered by 2 × Shvetsov ASh-82FN. Armament differed dramatically from it's ancestor, being 48 × PPSh sub machine guns installed in the forward fuselage, ,since the aircraft was meant to attack hostile infantry. The 48 guns could deliver a fierce barrage for a short period, it was nearly impossible to reload all 48 guns in a short time.
Another Shturmovic (ground-attack) version was fitted with a 75 mm cannon, which was reloaded by the navigator, in addition to it's standard armament. It was primarily meant for attacking enemy trains. It was tested, but did not enter production.
In 1946 yet another version arose. It was armed with 2 × 45 mm NS-45 cannon and 2 × 37 mm NS-37 cannon all situated under the nose. 2 × 20 mm ShVAK cannon whcich were fitted to the sides of the fuselage complemented the quartet. This aircraft had a crew of 2, and had for defence a dorsal turret mounted with 1 × 0.50 inch (12,7 mm) Beresin UBT gun. This was also only a prototype.
The last Shturmovic version was one similar to the one directly above, but fitted with a single 57 mm RShR anti-tank cannon with a recoil compensator, installed in the weapons bay. The barrel of this cannon protruded almost 1 ft 8 inch (0,50 m) from the nose of the aircraft.
Number built: unknown out of 2.527

[Brad Johnson]

Yep, looks like I had my gunships confused.  Did some digging and the 105, which is used in the C-130 Spectre, was never use in the WWII B-25.

It's still amazing they got a B-25, any B-25, safely off a carrier deck, much less a whole flight of them that were loaded to the gills with bombs and fuel.

Brad

[Harold Tuttle]

I remember a novel I read back in high school that was about B-25 skip bombers that were loaded for bear with nose guns

[JonnyB]

Harold:

At 900 rounds per minute, the magazines would be empty in four seconds, not 15!

That's a bunch of lead.

jb

[Harold Tuttle]

I thought that seemed slow

[Teknoid]

I wish I had the book I saw years ago. I think the title was "Strange War Birds". Lots of really goofy prototypes in it. One was an Italian fighter design. It had a prop on both ends and could fly in either direction. I guess they had problems deciding what side they were on.

Anybody else seen this? I'm pretty sure I wasn't hallucinating.

[Boomhauer]

I wish I had the book I saw years ago. I think the title was "Strange War Birds". Lots of really goofy prototypes in it. One was an Italian fighter design. It had a prop on both ends and could fly in either direction. I guess they had problems deciding what side they were on.

Anybody else seen this? I'm pretty sure I wasn't hallucinating.

Don't know about the Italien fighter, but there was a German fighter that had a tractor engine at the nose and a pusher engine at the rear. I think they called it the Arrow, and that it had diesel engines...

[Harold Tuttle]

Dornier Anteater


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dornier_Do_335

The only surviving Do 335 (VG+PH) is at the Steven F. Udvar-Hazy Center near Washington, DC

[Boomhauer]

That's it.

[Teknoid]

Don't know about the Italien fighter, but there was a German fighter that had a tractor engine at the nose and a pusher engine at the rear. I think they called it the Arrow, and that it had diesel engines...

Not the one I saw. It was definitely Italian. Designed to actually reverse direction in flight. I fail to see any reason for
it, but that was the idea.

Another was a Polish helicopter designed to lift heavy items. Unfortunately, it weighed so much that it could barely lift itself. Almost everything in the book was a failed design. I think Jane's put it out.

Edit: I think this is the 'copter: Dombrowski-Sedlitz Helicopter



This aircraft contained a 6000hp diesel locomotive engine while the fuselage was made of riveted sheet iron. The weight of the aircraft ended up being 56 tons and was barely able to lift off the ground. This deemed the aircraft useless as it was unable to carry the intended payload.

[Boomhauer]

Not the one I saw. It was definitely Italian. Designed to actually reverse direction in flight. I fail to see any reason for
it, but that was the idea.

Another was a Polish helicopter designed to lift heavy items. Unfortunately, it weighed so much that it could barely lift itself. Almost everything in the book was a failed design. I think Jane's put it out.

The Italians have always just been plain weird.

[Teknoid]

OK, I wasn't drunk when I thought I saw this:








Manufacturer: Aeronautico Piccolino Abagano Elari Quattori. Purpose: Single seat experimental fighter. When the tide of war turned against it, Fascist Italy turned with the tide. The C2 or "SCUD" was one direct result. The engineers of Aeronautico Piccolino Abagano Elari Quattori in Turin were charged with designing an aircraft of modern fighter type that could, should word come in mid-air of another change in allegiance, instantly reverse course and become part of the now friendly force. Thus the unique two engined configuration, central cockpit, swivel seat and dual controls facing fore and aft. Time for the SCUD (meaning - Scuderia con curso il travaia," or "turncoat") to switch directions and sides was set at less than two minutes from a top speed of 265mph by air force consultants. This performance was never tested, much less met, since pilots refused to attempt it, except on the ground with an ambulance close by. One pilot did take the sole SCUD prototype aloft, but once airborne decided to visit his mother in Salerno and wrecked the craft crash-landing on a nearby beach. The SCUD was painted gold by artisans formerly employed in upkeep of the Sistine Chapel. A remarkable feature of the plane, considering it's fighter designation, was a total lack of armament. The designers successfully resisted all attempts to ruin its unbroken lines with ugly guns.

[Regolith]

I went to the McMinnville Evergreen Aviation Museum last summer.  That would be where they house the Hughes H-4 Hercules, also known as the Spruce Goose. 


That airplane is so big, I couldn't take a picture of it in its entirety.  So here, for your enjoyment, are some pictures of other aircraft, with parts of the Spruce Goose in the background:


MiG 17.  One of the Spruce Goose's floats is in the background.


F105 Thunderchief  Plus 3 of the Goose's 4 right side engines.   


F100 Supersabre.  Plus part of the Goose's wing!


P-38 Lighting. 


An F4 Phantom II.  And another one of the Goose's floats.


A B-25.  Plus part of the Goose's tail.


OV-1 Mohawk.


The tail of the Spruce Goose.  Under it is the B25 and the OV-1.


Cockpit and parts of the wing of the Spruce Goose.



(In retrospect, I should have taken pictures of plaques that told you what the hell each plane was, but my SD card was running low of space, so I had to conserve memory space.)

[Boomhauer]

Jesus H. Christ.

You would think it would be French...but no...even the French were smart enough to put guns on their fighters.

Regolith:

Your aircraft are as listed as follows:

Mig 15 (I think)

F-105 Thunderchief

F-100 Supersabre

P-38

F-4

B-25 (not 17)

OV-10 Mohawk.

[Regolith]

Jesus H. Christ.

You would think it would be French...but no...even the French were smart enough to put guns on their fighters.

Regolith:

Your aircraft are as listed as follows:

Mig 15 (I think)

F-105 Thunderchief

F-100 Supersabre

P-38

F-4

B-25 (not 17)

OV-10 Mohawk.

Ah,  thanks for the names.  I'll update the captions real quick...

Edit:  I think it's a MiG-17, actually.  The distance between the cockpit and the tail is too long (just looked it up on Wikipedia).

[French G.]

That'd be an OV-1 Mohawk, OV-10 was the Bronco.

The Polish Helicopter looks like a drawing for a video game. Then again the statement "Polish Helicopter" is like a self-writing joke.

The Italian thing is surely some elaborate web-based parody of Italian fighting skill, politics, and design esthetic right? If so, it is brilliantly done. If not, my mind aches. Why not just do the favorite French air force maneuver and pull a split S? You get to run away and almost start to sky-write surrender at the same time. 


I need to find all my airplane pics, got some odd ones. I'd love to see that McMinnville place.

[RocketMan]

Actually Avenger29, that's the OV-1 Mohawk.  
The OV-10 is called the Bronco.  It's a much different aircraft, twin-boom tail, but with a similar mission.  The -B version of the Bronco could actually carry a few troops in the rear of its center section, and had limited air-to-air self-defense capability.
There were a bunch at MCAS Kaneohe when I was stationed there a loooong time ago.

Bronco




Oops, French beat me by mere seconds.

[Boomhauer]

That'd be an OV-1 Mohawk, OV-10 was the Bronco.

Dammit, yeah that's right. brain fart.

I know the differences.

[Jamisjockey]

Got a chance to poke around the Air and Space Museum in Dulles a few times.  There are some interesting rigs in there, including a failed man-portable personal helicopter.  It was intended to be used for couriers, and to be air-dropped to downed aviators as a means of escape, but it had a top speed of 40mph and was deemed to be too slow.
Don't have any pictures, sadly, thought I took more.

[Jamisjockey]

Oh, and here's a couple goodies from the USMC museum just outside Quantico.

[MicroBalrog]

[Harold Tuttle]

Hoban 'Wash' Washburn: This landing is gonna get pretty interesting.
Capt. Malcolm Reynolds: Define "interesting".
Hoban 'Wash' Washburn: [deadpan] Oh God, oh God, we're all going to die?

[freedom lover]

Bell XP-63 Manned Aerial Target? 

How the hell did that work?


If any of you ever go to the Hudson Valley check out the Old Rhinebeck Aerodrome. It's awesome. It's also one of the few places in the world where you can ride in a bi-plane from the 20's.

http://www.oldrhinebeck.org/

[French G.]

How the hell did that work?

From http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=2217

The most unusual P-63 variations were the RP-63A and RP-63C "pinball" versions developed late in WWII. These manned target aircraft were fired at by aerial gunnery students using .30-cal. lead and plastic frangible machine gun bullets that disintegrated harmlessly against the target's external skin of Duralumin armor plating. Special instruments sent impulses to red lights in the nose of the "pinball" aircraft, causing them to blink when bullets struck the plane.

I've read about this before and would have to decline to be the pilot. I have previously seen write-ups that said the bullets were a lead graphite mix. (Extreme Shock?  ) I can just see PFC Murphy bringing the wrong belt of ammo to practice and the pilot suddenly finding himself in a hail of not so harmless regular bullets.