Author Topic: World's Fastest Car, Made in America  (Read 14585 times)

Iain

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Re: World's Fastest Car, Made in America
« Reply #25 on: May 05, 2009, 08:45:32 PM »
I did try and find out. The innerweb is a fascinating place - http://www.malibutimes.com/articles/2006/02/24/news/news1.txt - possibly the most famous Enzo crash. Crashed at an estimated 162mph (elsewhere 199). Driver was legally drunk but unharmed.

The driver was Stefan Eriksson, or at least he was determined to be, because initially he claimed that the driver was a man known only to him as Dietrich who had fled. Eriksson was a former technology officer at a British company called Gizmondo "which British newspapers say was looted by executives of millions of dollars in inflated salaries, perks like Formula One race cars and other unearned benefits. The high tech British-American electronic game manufacturing company is being liquidated in Britain this week after what newspapers there call a spectacular collapse."

Interestingly the car was not street legal in the US and apparently had been illegally imported. The Bank of Scotland was in the process of repossessing it. Also, Eriksson should never have been in the US, he apparently has quite an impressive list of racketeering convictions in his native Sweden.

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nico

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Re: World's Fastest Car, Made in America
« Reply #26 on: May 05, 2009, 10:48:08 PM »
Nice, but I'm skeptical that a 1200 HP small block is going to last very long.

Why?  Not that it would be an everyday car, or that it'll last 100k+ track miles, but I see no reason for it to be less reliable than any other supercar.  The LSx motors are some of the most reliable engines around.  The ZR1 for example, makes 620hp out of 6.2 liters with a supercharger.  It's marketed as a competitor for the 911 Turbo, so they needed to give up a little power in the name of drivability and reliability.  Hell, Lingenfelter sells a package for the LS7 (current Z06) that claims 1000hp and comes with a 3 year/36,000 mile warranty.

DJJ

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Re: World's Fastest Car, Made in America
« Reply #27 on: May 05, 2009, 11:14:19 PM »
If it's a small block, it's probably not more than about 350 ci; that's more than 3 hp/ci. The ZR1 is putting out 1.64 hp/ci.

nico

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Re: World's Fastest Car, Made in America
« Reply #28 on: May 05, 2009, 11:20:56 PM »
It's 6.3 liters which ~385ci.  "Small block" isn't really an accurate name for the LSx motors.  The LS7 (Z06 motor) is 427ci/7.0L.  Even the "standard" Corvette motor is 6.2 liters now.

CNYCacher

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Re: World's Fastest Car, Made in America
« Reply #29 on: May 06, 2009, 01:12:30 PM »
I don't think 3hp/ci is all that dangerous to an engine.  I know quite a few guys who were making much more than that on a Nissan VG30 motor when I got out of playing with the 300ZX 5 years ago.  The book "Maximum Boost" by Corkey Bell has a chapter that deals with engine stress as it relates to horsepower and RPMs, and shows how produced horsepower has very little to do with engine stress compared to RPM rate.  Something like the stress on an engine turning 6500 RPM is equal to the stress on the same engine turning 6000 RPM but it has been boosted to 3 times its normal horsepower.

The outlaw class drag races were once dominated by a guy who was getting 1200+ HP from a 3-liter (161 ci) VG30 in his (stock interior) 1980's 300zx.  45PSI of turbo boost :)
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Gowen

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Re: World's Fastest Car, Made in America
« Reply #30 on: May 06, 2009, 05:38:59 PM »
Very fast in a car. Not so fast in a plane. I will stick with the plane. The Big Sky Theory is: the sky is big and I am small and the likelihood of meeting someone is therefore small. That doesn't apply in a car. Too many trees, cops and other cars.

Tell that to Steve Fossett...

This whole thread reminds me of the Joe Walsh song....  "..my Mazarati does 185.. I lost my license, now I don't drive..."
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Cromlech

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Re: World's Fastest Car, Made in America
« Reply #31 on: May 06, 2009, 06:19:09 PM »


First person other than Iain or agricola to 'get it' wins an e-Cookie.
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Teknoid

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Re: World's Fastest Car, Made in America
« Reply #32 on: May 06, 2009, 06:30:43 PM »


First person other than Iain or agricola to 'get it' wins an e-Cookie.

Mr. Bean and his McLaren, perhaps?

Cromlech

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Re: World's Fastest Car, Made in America
« Reply #33 on: May 06, 2009, 06:46:22 PM »
Rowan Atkinson who crashed his own £640,000 one, yep.  =D
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Clem

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Re: World's Fastest Car, Made in America
« Reply #34 on: May 07, 2009, 08:10:45 AM »

Big sky theory is cute.
I can tell you from experience that small airplanes quite often nearly (or do) trade paint.  And two cessna's going 120mph each = a collision speed of 240mph.....

When I was flying F-4s, we were making head on passes at 500 to 600 kts for a closing speed of 1000 to 1200 kts. If you saw each other at about 3 nm, which was pretty typical for the hazy conditions over the water, you had 9 to 10 sec. until the pass. At the pass you wanted to be close to preclude an early turn by your adversary, so we typically had 10 to 20 feet of wing tip clearance at the pass. Are we having fun yet?

280plus

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Re: World's Fastest Car, Made in America
« Reply #35 on: May 07, 2009, 12:20:44 PM »
There was this guy once, years ago now he got into a little trouble over ill gotten gov contracts, so he took his Porsche up to 110 mph on the highway and slammed it into a bridge abutment just down the road from here. He flew through the windshield and made a splat on the abutment. So I believe in some cases becoming either a splat or paste is more relative to what you're doing at the time as opposed to what you're doing it in or on? To this day you can still see the black paint patch on the abutment where his brother painted over the splat.  =|
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rcnixon

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Re: World's Fastest Car, Made in America
« Reply #36 on: May 07, 2009, 09:43:19 PM »
Cool! Thanks for sharing.

But that ain't no big block. Its a small block LSx series Chevy engine.

I believe I heard the man say that it is a 6.3 liter billet block engine.  That means that a CNC machining center hogged the block out of a rather larger and heavier piece of aluminium alloy; probably forged.  Just for the record, 6.3 liters is 384 cubic inches, more or less.  The 389 Pontiac and the 396 Chevy are considered big blocks.  My question is: is it a side-oiler?

In response to the Porsche snark, it's 83 inches wide.  That's a pretty fearsome track.  Besides, it can afford to give away a little on the corners, it'll run away and hide on the straights.  BTW, are you still using aluminium lug nuts to try to get that oversexed Volkwagen to balance? :)

Russ

Gewehr98

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Re: World's Fastest Car, Made in America
« Reply #37 on: May 08, 2009, 12:39:25 AM »
Yes, there was a 396 Big Block.

There was also a 400 Small Block.

I have a Small Block stroker 383 in my '53 Chevy pickup, which is a 350 block fitted with a 400 crank.

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280plus

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Re: World's Fastest Car, Made in America
« Reply #38 on: May 08, 2009, 05:58:10 AM »
Ford made a small block 400 for a while. I had a '70 Galaxie 500 with one. It liked to cruise at 110. You couldn't take the parts (crank for example) out of it and put them in a 351 though. Stupid Ford.
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Iain

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Re: World's Fastest Car, Made in America
« Reply #39 on: May 08, 2009, 06:20:35 AM »
In response to the Porsche snark, it's 83 inches wide.  That's a pretty fearsome track.  Besides, it can afford to give away a little on the corners, it'll run away and hide on the straights.  BTW, are you still using aluminium lug nuts to try to get that oversexed Volkwagen to balance? :)

Russ

Heh. I don't own a Porsche, it was just me playing up to being the European.
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280plus

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Re: World's Fastest Car, Made in America
« Reply #40 on: May 08, 2009, 07:46:39 AM »
I also used to have a VW Wagon with a Porsche motor. Unfortunately the car was too much of a rust bucket when I bought it that it never made it back on the road. Can't remember the year, 70's, but it was a pretty early fuel injected motor, for the US anyways. Sold the motor and computer for what I paid for the car for and junked the rest. Did drive it, not much though, didn't have a chance to decide whether I was impressed or not.
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280plus

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Re: World's Fastest Car, Made in America
« Reply #41 on: May 08, 2009, 07:49:26 AM »
The other sad part of my story, When I got divorced my ex got the Galaxie and had an anooying habit of trashing cars so nuff said there.  =(
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mfree

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Re: World's Fastest Car, Made in America
« Reply #42 on: May 08, 2009, 12:03:38 PM »
" You couldn't take the parts (crank for example) out of it and put them in a 351 though. Stupid Ford."

That's because it wasn't a "small block". It got called a small block because you got one of the very early and rather desirable versions that had the smaller bellhousing pattern.

351M/400 blocks had an inch taller deck height and the cleveland bearing pattern (so actually, you could put the parts in a "small block", just not the windsors) and were really a "mid block". After 1972 they all had the bigger bellhousing pattern and were used as truck engines and intermediate selections for the big 70's cruisers.

Great motors, IF you were willing to change the cam. The emissions pattern cam from the 70's choked the everloving snot out of those engines, a low lift, medium overlap pattern that was installed a full 5 degrees from centerline... mix that with a restrictive intake (heads were just fine, flowed better than cleveland heads and almost as well as high-ports) that was only available as a 2 barrel, and you had a mix that made for a reputation as a boat anchor.

400M with stock heads, an aluminum 4 barrel intake, and even a mild "proper" camshaft installed centerline should be putting out at least 275 horsepower *easily*, out of the box even, if not more. All the emissions BS from the 70's had stock ones putting out, not a misprint here, 130 horsepower (albeit with almost 400lb-ft of torque just off idle).

Just keep the revs down below 6 grand, those massive crank journals also mean massive surface speed, real easy to break the hydraulic barrier and scuff 'em. I drove one of those motors with some mild mods for a while in a '79 Lincoln mark V... no idea on the power output but it was done with a larger Holley 2bbl and an RV cam, and was rather impressive. The nose of the car could rise on acceleration so far you couldn't see the road, even with a 2.47 rear end.

280plus

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Re: World's Fastest Car, Made in America
« Reply #43 on: May 08, 2009, 04:49:24 PM »
Yea, I wanted to put 351-4V heads on the 400 but the angles was all wrong between the two blocks. I'm pretty sure it was a 1970. The thing just flew!

I knew a guy who had a modified 400 in his Bronco. In 4WD low range when he stomped on it the truck would literally jump all four tires off the ground. VERY fast truck!  :O

I remember now too BTW, the VW was a 1974.
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mfree

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Re: World's Fastest Car, Made in America
« Reply #44 on: May 09, 2009, 12:32:10 PM »
Heh, (to continue the tangent), if you'd gotten those heads on there you'd have been making a mistake. 4V heads are wayyy too big for this engine, the stock heads are about as perfect a match as you can get from a manufacturer.

I hunted for a reference; http://ford400.100webcustomers.com/v8main.html  that guy started his build with 4V heads and had a hell of a time with low end power; but in the same breath he references a 500cfm 2 barrel, stock head build Hot Rod did in 2000 that got 380hp.

A 400 is a stroked Cleveland without the problems you get with short rods. Stock heads and new domed forged pistons and you've got a beast. Check it: http://home.comcast.net/~jelerath/mustang/Specs/heads-fr.html 400M stock heads are identical to D0 351c 2v open chamber heads.

Just have to remember to stay "mild" with the compression since you've got a lot of area and squish, which also means the engine will REALLY respond to higher octane and aggressive advance curves. Clean the heads up too, or it'll be detonation prone... but we're also talking a motor where 6000rpm is pushing things, so it's not even a medium-sized factor.

(I spent YEARS studying this motor after the Lincoln, as I intended to make the "perfect" car by dropping one in my '84 Tbird. Unfortunately that takes money, as does the college life, and the latter took precidence)

They stick those heads on "clevor" builds all the time... http://www.mustangandfords.com/techarticles/30220_clevor_engine/photo_02.html

I'll leave a couple points to ponder, you take these parts and tell me what you think of the results...
http://www.pricemotorsport.com/html/body_ap-34__intake_adapter_kit.html 400m - 351W intake adaptor plates
http://racerwalsh.zoovy.com/product/TFS51500004/351w_efi_intake.html 351W EFI intake
460 EFI distributor w/ remote TFI module
Megasquirt FI system

280plus

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Re: World's Fastest Car, Made in America
« Reply #45 on: May 09, 2009, 04:57:10 PM »
gee, I have a 90 E150 and a 95 F150, both with 302/5.0 sitting out in the driveway as we speak.  =D

Money is a factor though.  =|

My crazy brother dropped a beefed up 460 in his Bronco. 48" tires. A street legal monster truck. Then he took it alllll apart, then it sat like that for a while, then he sold it.

Funny, my 71 351C-4V with the 650 double pumper had low end issues too, but once it caught up to itself watch out! lol... I always meant to try disconnecting the secondary pump but never did get around to it. It was all cast iron, 9.5:1 compression. I had it rebuilt because one cylinder had blown. bored .030 over. It ran. I found the Holley on a shelf at a parts store and got it for next to nothing. It opened the thing up quite a bit but was too much all at once when you romped on it. It sure would smoke them tires. Got it to chirp 4th one time. :laugh:
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mfree

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Re: World's Fastest Car, Made in America
« Reply #46 on: May 09, 2009, 05:50:04 PM »
It's those 4V heads man, ports are far too big for street use. No velocity.

280plus

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Re: World's Fastest Car, Made in America
« Reply #47 on: May 10, 2009, 09:06:17 AM »
Now I'm sad...   =(

 :laugh:

I just learned not to dump on it all at once. If you had it in second or third with the rpms up and stepped on it, it was gone. I still miss that car. It was a rust bucket too. From Michigan, I had it in CA. Used to run it up and down Rt 5 all the time. Got a few tickets. One for beating a motorcycle in a race one Sunday morning. Sold it in 1980 and bought a 1970 Fiat 124 wagon. Drove THAT from CA to CT. $125 in total gas expenditure. Stopped getting tickets.  =D
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