Save The Earth, Kill A Human

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Could that be Troll I smell?

That would be my cue to say goodbye. Funny how all these little groups scream TROLL!! when someone actually disagrees with their stupidity. Real open minded, real americans.

Stick around.  As long as you keep things civil you're welcome to stay.  I, for one, find your discourse to be interesting.  Avoid the personal attacks and everyone will go home happy.

[Iain]

If they (we) are stupid you have not made a particularly good case for that being so. So far you have made a few assertions, demanded a Nobel prize and then run off when someone called you a troll. Don't particularly like accusations of trollery being thrown around either, but disappearing now makes you look like one.

[mak]

OK. I will take that. What next?

[mak]

Avoid the personal attacks and everyone will go home happy.

I have alot of problems with not defending myself. It is why I carry a concealed weapon in one of the hardest states to get a permit. I might lean left on SOME issues, but I dont take it up the rear end.

[SomeKid]

Sindawe,

At best he is a liberal arts major college student. As a Nursing student myself, I don't know if troll-boy could even hack ethnic studies.

mak,

Last time I checked, Stephen Colbert was a comedian. The WHPCD involves journalists (or in the case of Colbert, a comedian mocking journalists).

Here is the definition of science:

sci‧ence  /ˈsaɪəns/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[sahy-uhns] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
noun
1.   a branch of knowledge or study dealing with a body of facts or truths systematically arranged and showing the operation of general laws: the mathematical sciences.
2.   systematic knowledge of the physical or material world gained through observation and experimentation.
3.   any of the branches of natural or physical science.
4.   systematized knowledge in general.
5.   knowledge, as of facts or principles; knowledge gained by systematic study.
6.   a particular branch of knowledge.
7.   skill, esp. reflecting a precise application of facts or principles; proficiency.

Do tell me where it mentions comedians, press dinners, or even the POTUS.

Secondly, YouTube is not a scientific journal. I know that is probably hard for you to understand, but YouTube is not I repeat NOT a scientific journal.

Now, can you disprove ANYTHING I have said, or do you want to throw another fit?

THG, Sindawe, Iain, should I feel bad for enjoying the creation of this post?

Oh, one last thing mak, you started this whole thing by calling me ridiculous. If you take a swing at someone, you can't claim self-defense.

[mak]

Now, can you disprove ANYTHING I have said, or do you want to throw another fit?

You are the one throwing the fit kid. Did you have to clean one too many bedpans today?

Hey Headless, was that a personal attack or just self-defense?

[SomeKid]

The only thing I have cleaned today is my AR15. Still waiting on you to disprove ANYTHING I have posted in this thread.

I am sitting here with a grin on my face, watching South Park and laughing at you. No fits going on here, well fits of laughter excluded.

[mak]

Good for you kiddo. I like AR's. I have nothing to prove or disprove to you.

[SomeKid]

I have nothing to prove or disprove to you.

No? So what was ridiculous about my post earlier then? Still waiting on you to show where I was wrong, or in your words, what has made me ridiculous.

[drewtam]

Back on topic...
He who refuses to do arithmetic is doomed to talk nonsense.

http://www-formal.stanford.edu/jmc/progress/

Here is a "scientist". Anyone here ever take a look at this guys explanations and work? If the data he provides is accurate, it seems pretty convincing about a bright future for humanity. Furthermore, consider the claim of the original post, it assumes continuing population rises with equivelant resource consumption.
But, as wealth increases, history shows that birthrates drop.
Consider that the nations that are wealthy export food and energy, it is the poor nations that are energy inefficient and unsustainable (for various reasons NOT to do with population or resources). The wealthy nation peoples are more productive and able to more efficiently produce food per person and other goods per person.

Pollution is more of a problem with poor undeveloped nations because of the primitive methods for disposing waste and producing energy.
Clearing forests occurs only in poor undeveloped nations because they are trying to convert to agriculture, not for the wood product. In the US and Europe, the acres and volume wood has been increasing over the past 100yrs. In south america, most of the forest cleared and burned to grow crops on it for a few years of fertility before moving on to another patch of forest.

Drew

[mak]

Still waiting on you to show where I was wrong, or in your words, what has made me ridiculous.

The whole global warming thing is so obvious, so transparent. The earth is a finely tuned system and for the last 100 years we have been detuning it. The world runs on oil. The oil companies want it to stay that way. They spend a hundred times more money on propaganda saying that we are not warming the planet than anyone is spending saying we are.  These corporations have the motive and are far more suspect than any hypothetical left wing conspiracy. I will not go on and on about this except to say, if you are a true believer then you will always disbelieve what the scientific community is telling you and go with the propaganda. Nothing is going to change your mind. You will just keep saying no till you get tired of the argument and watch south park. You have been programmed. I have not. That is why when you make a statement that sounds like a Rush Limbaugh quote and runs counter to nobel prize winners and thousands of PHD's who have nothing to gain except trouble, I consider you ridiculous.

[Ron]

Armed Polite Society

The whole global warming thing is so obvious, so transparent.

That is because you are a true believer.

The earth is a finely tuned system and for the last 100 years we have been detuning it.

I think you have an inflated view of our significance on this planet. The earth will take what we dish out, assimulate it and outlast us all.

You must to be too young to remember when they used to scare us kids with the coming Ice Age.

[SomeKid]

The whole global warming thing is so obvious, so transparent.

And that of course, is why there is absolutely no proof at all it really exists.

The earth is a finely tuned system and for the last 100 years we have been detuning it.

Right. Hence the reason why the environmentalists were wrong about mass starvation for decades (and still wrong today on that topic), and also why they were wrong about 'global cooling', and why they are wrong today about global warming.

These corporations have the motive and are far more suspect

It wouldn't have been a complete screed if you did not include a comment on those evil corporations that are trying to rape poor old Mother Earth. Poor old Gaia. Tell me mak, have you worshipped your tree today?

I will not go on and on about this

Way too late.

Nothing is going to change your mind.

Except facts. Which you have yet to provide a single one of.

You will just keep saying no till you get tired of the argument and watch south park.

No, I will get tired of laughing at you and go to sleep. I am watching Mind of Mencia now.

You have been programmed. I have not.

  Right. I just need to shut up and allow you, oh greatness with your free thinking factless thoughts run my world. I cannot have a divergent point of view based on facts.

And you, good sir, the one who has not been programmed by the machine, what are your credentials again? Right, earlier you claimed to have a carry permit in a state where it was hard to get one. Wow. That right there is one heckuva cred.

Ron, you beat me to it on his being the real true believer. However, I warn you not to give his youthful ignorance a pass. I am 22, and have been willing to educate myself as to their history. He could have done the same, but he liked the Kool-Aid just a bit too much.

[mak]

Still waiting on you to show where I was wrong, or in your words, what has made me ridiculous.

I just gave you the reply you asked for. Why do you have to throw a fit like that?

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Cool it, kiddies.  Around here you're expected to talk substance, not trash.

[Sindawe]

Somekid: Nope, sounds spot-on to me.

mak: OK, you're not a Troll, but it strikes me that you ARE filled with the untempered passion of a new convert and it would seem did not read the forum posting rules.

I think you have an inflated view of our significance on this planet. The earth will take what we dish out, assimulate it and outlast us all.

 Hmm.... maybe a bit over generous to the planet, but IMHO pretty close to current understanding.  While our species can make a gawd-awfull mess of the planet, and 'prolly render it uninhabitable to large mammels for a very long time, we are as yet incapable of sterilizing the planet.  Even if we turned the entire land surface to radioactive glass, life would continue around the deep oceanic thermal vents and the recently discovered chemical seeps that support live.

As it sits now, the earth would bounce back pretty quickly if we all just up and left, and the biosphere is making advances in adapting to our presence and activities.  Coyotes have expanded their range in North America since the introduction of industrial civilization.  Wild boar are now commonplace in Berlin, and from what I understand, white tail deer have become a pest in the east.

Are OUR actions alone warming the planet?  I doubt it.  This planet has been warmer AND cooler in past epochs when there were no humans here.  Are we contributing?  Perhaps, since it looks like the change in climate is occuring faster than in previous warming/cooling events.  Should we collectively freak out and abandon our civilization, returning to an agrarian or even hunter/gatherer way of life?  Well, we could but lots and lots of people would die as a result and I doubt that EVERYBODY on the planet would go for such a change in lifestyle.

IMAO what we as a species should do is look at how we use the resources available and work to reduce our material and energy demands in our own lives.  Little changes applied across the board can have a large impact.  Replace incandescent lights with compact fluorescents or even LEDs. Start putting photovoltaic shingles on our houses and commercial structures so we are burning less carbon based and fissionables to generate electricity.  Replace Ky Bluegrass with grasses native to the region we live in to cut water consumption (where I live, 2/3s of last years water cost was to keep the freaking Bluegrass alive, in COLORADO : banghead : ).

Or we could just carry on our merry way until things start to fall apart on their own.

You must to be too young to remember when they used to scare us kids with the coming Ice Age.

I'm not.  That scared the be-jebus out of me when I heard about that.  Now, I find it amusing that if our action do heat the climate up enough, it could bring an another cold spell.

[mak]

http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1682

Some substance. This will discredit 90% of all the propaganda you have been brainwashed with. But of course, you can just say, "It's not true, it didnt come from fox."

[Ron]

I'm not.  That scared the be-jebus out of me when I heard about that.  Now, I find it amusing that if our action do heat the climate up enough, it could bring an another cold spell.

Ironic, global warming causing another ice age. On a positive note it will be hard for a Daley to run Chicago if it is under a half mile of ice

If we are going to go with the scientists take on the subject, don't even they say that we are responsible for something like 5% of greenhouse gas emmisions?

This is happening regardless of our actions. Just like it did many times before man was around.

We should focus our energies on adapting to the climate change and not waste resources trying to stop what appears to be a natural warming cycle.

[mak]

We should focus our energies on adapting to the climate change and not waste resources trying to stop what appears to be a natural warming cycle.

Those one hundred or so nobel science prize winners and 1700 climate scientists disagree with you. If I recall there are about a half dozen qualified people on your side. They work for the energy industry. The same industry that pours millions into lobbying against anybody saying or doing anything about global warming. But you go ahead and stick with it Ron. Good luck.

[Ron]

But you go ahead and stick with it Ron. Good luck.

Thanks!!

[Perd Hapley]

mak is not a troll.  He's just a mediocre wit who thinks he's more intelligent than anyone he disagrees with.  And he's not an especially good conversationalist or polemicist.

The effect is the same.  Ignore him. 

[mak]

Is it me you want everyone to ignore, or the inconvenient truth?

[roo_ster]

The fact of the matter is this, environmentalists are quite literally, chicken little. The sky is not falling, they are not right.

The fact of the matter is, unless you come out of the closet and reveal your nobel prize in science, you are ridiculous.

mak:

I detect a pattern requiring debating opponents to present qualifications that you yourself lack.  In the other thread, no one (in your opinion) could opine unless they had functioning breasts.  Here, you insist that in order for your opponent to not be ridiculous they must have a Nobel Prize.

Yet, you do not have the ability to lacate over your own Nobel Prize.

But,I will give credit where credit is due, you may have just invented your very own logical fallacy: nonreciprocal qualification.

The whole global warming thing is so obvious, so transparent.

Preach it, Brother mak! 

There is some data that supports GW.  Unfortunately, you seem unfamiliar* with it and remain fixated on credentialism and faith-based global warming arguments.

* Or at least unwilling to share.

[mak]

I posted an article with data in it. You just said a whole lot of nothing. Why dont you read it and express something meaningful?

[Ron]

faith-based global warming arguments

Thats a good one, I'll have to file it away for the next GW thread.