Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: 230RN on August 21, 2020, 12:00:09 AM
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Anyone know how these paper masks are going to work or not work in freezing weather?
Seems to me that might be a problem but I haven't seen any discussion on it. So maybe it isn't.
???
Terry, 230RN
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You mean because your mask will ice over?
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Yeah, that's what I was thinking, but don't know if anyone has dealt with that question.
Thanks for the heads up on the heading typo, fistful.
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I've used a scarf before in freezing weather. Apparently I breath a lot since the scarf, and these darn masks, get wet quick. The scarf does freeze us, as does my beard, but can be rotated around. The masks, especially the paper ones, don't seem likely to hold up so well. But I don't do crowds outside so it's not going to be a problem for me.
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The really cold weather around here doesn't occur until after the election. So your question is a moot point . . . .
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The really cold weather around here doesn't occur until after the election. So your question is a moot point . . . .
=D
On the OP, I suppose the mask could freeze up, resulting in your breath mostly exhausting through the edges of the mask versus the filter surface. I wore a neck gaiter/balaclava occasionally last Winter (my first Idaho Winter) and had no problems even on single digit days. Though I recently read that testing showed face coverings like neck gaiters are ineffective. Then again, 90% of face coverings are ineffective given the way I've seen 90% of the population wearing them.
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I've used a scarf before in freezing weather. Apparently I breath a lot since the scarf, and these darn masks, get wet quick. The scarf does freeze up, as does my beard, but can be rotated around. The masks, especially the paper ones, don't seem likely to hold up so well. But I don't do crowds outside so it's not going to be a problem for me.
Well, that's what I'm curious about, and if it might be a problem, is anyone pursuing a solution?
I have a ski mask with a breathing port with "regenerative heating" for incoming air (inhalation) by capturing the heat of previously exhaled air. It entails a kind of copper screen to do the regeneration, but it would not be considered a germ filter as it is presently set up.
Another possible option is I noticed a couple of masks in the grocery store with built-in check valves. Closing on either inhalation or exhalation would seem to help with this possible problem, but yes or no?
Anyhow, I'm kicking it around in my own mind, but wondered if anyone else has addressed the problem, if there really is one.
Be prepared.
POSTED before seeing Ben's remarks. That breathing through the edges of a solidly frozen mask occurred to me, too, but it still would be somewhat effective in blocking outoing germ clouds --somewhat like face shields.
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Another possible option is I noticed a couple of masks in the grocery store with built-in check valves. Closing on either inhalation or exhalation would seem to help with this possible problem, but yes or no?
Masks with valves are banned in many places. They don't filter exhaust, thus only protecting the wearer.
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^ An interesting additional consideration, thanks.
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Masks with exhalation valves are on the 'no-go' list at most healthcare facilities.
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I guess it depends on if the Covid is frost proof. You might not need a mask in freezing weather. You'll just have a little Covid snow storm to deal with.
Woody
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Then again, 90% of face coverings are ineffective given the way I've seen 90% of the population wearing them.
Like hanging under the chin -- or off one ear?
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Like hanging under the chin -- or off one ear?
Without resorting to my previous exaggerated numbers, fully 25% of people I see have their nose exposed. Another ~10% wear a bandana like a cowboy movie train robber.
I suspect the bandana wearers are anti-mask people doing the bear minimum allowed so they can shop somewhere or whatever.
On a further tangent, my first sit down breakfast out since this all started was a couple of days ago. Masks required at the diner. Until you sit down. It's just kinda funny to me that you wear your mask for 30 seconds from the entry door to your table when they seat you, then take your mask off for an hour to eat, then put it back on for the 15 second walk out the door.
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Who cares if your mask freezes and your get frostbitten lips...
You'll have done so for your fellow man! You'll be a hero!
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Without resorting to my previous exaggerated numbers, fully 25% of people I see have their nose exposed. Another ~10% wear a bandana like a cowboy movie train robber.
I suspect the bandana wearers are anti-mask people doing the bare minimum allowed so they can shop somewhere or whatever.
On a further tangent, my first sit down breakfast out since this all started was a couple of days ago. Masks required at the diner. Until you sit down. It's just kinda funny to me that you wear your mask for 30 seconds from the entry door to your table when they seat you, then take your mask off for an hour to eat, then put it back on for the 15 second walk out the door.
Just a matter of playing the probabilities, I guess. Sort of like zig-zagging when under fire instead of running straight... "every little bit helps," in a sense.
But back on topic, I guess it's agreed that it could be a problem. Any serious suggestions as to how to avoid it assuming masks will still be necessary next (or any) winter?
Blue-skying it, I briefly thought of battery-warmed masks like battery-heated hunting socks to avoid the condensation in the first place. Hey, blue sky. I thought of this once while wearing my "regenerative heating" ski mask and it started to freeze up anyhow.
Terry, 230RN
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Cloth masks, washed with reasonable frequency. Only wear them outside in freezing temperatures if you can't keep your distance from people. Don't go to events where you can't keep your distance from people.
Reasonably simple.
When I was dogmushing frequently I almost always wore a face covering on the trail (it's not just their secret tales that will make your blood run cold ;) ). One or two layers of polartech worn as a neck and lower face covering. Sometimes for 10-12 hours. They get wet, they freeze, they still work OK. You dry them out and wash them when you go back inside. If I was making a multiple day camping trip in sub-zero weather I might back an extra neck warmer as well as glove and boot liners so I could swap out for dry ones every 24 hours or so.
This is not rocket surgery.
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"They get wet, they freeze, they still work OK. You dry them out and wash them when you go back inside."
One neat trick when it's really cold out and whatever you have is frozen, you can beat it against a tree or on the ground and knock a considerable amount of ice out of it. Used to do that with wet socks and the like at scout winter camps.
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^,^ Hearing from an actual sled dog "driver" was actually helpful, so thanks, dogmush.
But that application is not intended as a germ blocker so I'm not challenging you, but I wonder about its relevance to the Covid 19 problem. Any comments on that aspect, dogmush? Seriously, I'm not being a jerk, but need further info.
Terry, 230RN
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I know what you're asking, but personally I can't see a frosted over mask affecting its ability/inability to block the Kung Flu.
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^,^ Hearing from an actual sled dog "driver" was actually helpful, so thanks, dogmush.
But that application is not intended as a germ blocker so I'm not challenging you, but I wonder about its relevance to the Covid 19 problem. Any comments on that aspect, dogmush? Seriously, I'm not being a jerk, but need further info.
Terry, 230RN
I rarely got a face covering so frosted up that it was a solid block of ice. It can happen, but it takes very cold weather for an extended timeframe. Much more common was a layer of frost* on the outside as your breath condensed and froze in the cold air. You would still be breathing through the mask so I would expect it's relative effectiveness at holding in water droplets in your breath to be pretty much the same. The inside of my masks is routinely damp, both then and now, so there is definitely some droplet retention.
If you are leaving a mask in a car (so as to not forget it at home or something) I would be concerned about damp masks freezing overnight. I would be sure to bring them in and dry them out.
Honestly your bigger problem is going to be your eyelashes. No joke. Wearing something over your face directs more breath up and it escapes between your nose and cheeks and flows in front of your eyes. In addition to fogging your glasses, about 5 (ish) F the moisture will condense and frost on your eyelashes, and once the crystals get big enough they will freeze together when you blink holding your eyes shut. I can't tell you how many time I was cruising along on a dogsled or snow machine and blinked, only to find one eye glued shut until I could get a hand up there and melt my eyelashes. Way bigger problem then my face covering freezing.
*This happens on fur parka ruffs as well. You will often see in pictures the fur alongside the lower part of the person's face to be a little frosty. This is not from snow fall or windblown stuff, but frozen breath.
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about 5 (ish) F the moisture will condense and frost on your eyelashes, and once the crystals get big enough they will freeze together when you blink holding your eyes shut. I can't tell you how many time I was cruising along on a dogsled or snow machine and blinked, only to find one eye glued shut until I could get a hand up there and melt my eyelashes. Way bigger problem then my face covering freezing.
I knew a girl who grew up I forget exactly where, on the Canadian Prairie. She said that "eyelids freezing shut" thing was the worst and happened to her all the time walking to school.
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I'd forgotten about that special feeling when your eyes freeze shut...
Only happened to me a couple of times, but every time it was disconcerting as hell.
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I rarely got a face covering so frosted up that it was a solid block of ice. It can happen, but it takes very cold weather for an extended timeframe. Much more common was a layer of frost* on the outside as your breath condensed and froze in the cold air. You would still be breathing through the mask so I would expect it's relative effectiveness at holding in water droplets in your breath to be pretty much the same. The inside of my masks is routinely damp, both then and now, so there is definitely some droplet retention.
If you are leaving a mask in a car (so as to not forget it at home or something) I would be concerned about damp masks freezing overnight. I would be sure to bring them in and dry them out.
Honestly your bigger problem is going to be your eyelashes. No joke. Wearing something over your face directs more breath up and it escapes between your nose and cheeks and flows in front of your eyes. In addition to fogging your glasses, about 5 (ish) F the moisture will condense and frost on your eyelashes, and once the crystals get big enough they will freeze together when you blink holding your eyes shut. I can't tell you how many time I was cruising along on a dogsled or snow machine and blinked, only to find one eye glued shut until I could get a hand up there and melt my eyelashes. Way bigger problem then my face covering freezing.
*This happens on fur parka ruffs as well. You will often see in pictures the fur alongside the lower part of the person's face to be a little frosty. This is not from snow fall or windblown stuff, but frozen breath.
You do dogsled races?
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You do dogsled races?
I did. I grew up in Alaska, and had a dog team while there, before I joined the army. Raced from 8 years old (3 dog sprints) till I was 19 and left. Sprint races every year through 7 dog, 3 Jr. Iditarods, Knik 200 twice, a Copper Basin 300, and a Two Rivers 200. Also did a season guiding tourists on dog sled trips out of Bettles in the Brooks range.
It's the origin of my screen name.
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"It's the origin of my screen name."
And here I just thought you were an Asian food fan...
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When I went skiing, I'd wear a fleece gator tucked into my googles. Occasionally, I'd let my nose out for some fresh air, but mostly I left it in place. It was actually worse to move it around because the condensation on it would get cold and freezy when you moved it off the skin and be uncomfortable when you put it back. It never got so much condensation that I couldn't breath.
Mind you, it was a fleece gator, and they've already done a study on fleece gators saying they are pointless for decreased spread of the virus.
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Excellent firsthand info, dogmush, thanks. The masks I happen to have now have a flexible wire "overnose" to allow a precision fit 'twixt nose and mask, but it still ain't precision enough.
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My solution to this problem is to live some place with a warm enough climate that it isn't a problem. I'd much rather deal with a few months of uncomfortable heat in the Summer than 8-9 months of frozen hell.
=D
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I did. I grew up in Alaska, and had a dog team while there, before I joined the army. Raced from 8 years old (3 dog sprints) till I was 19 and left. Sprint races every year through 7 dog, 3 Jr. Iditarods, Knik 200 twice, a Copper Basin 300, and a Two Rivers 200. Also did a season guiding tourists on dog sled trips out of Bettles in the Brooks range.
It's the origin of my screen name.
Ever meet or hear of a man racing with standard poodles?
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Who usually won?
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Ever meet or hear of a man racing with standard poodles?
John Suter.
He lived (maybe still lives?) About 7 miles from my parents house. I raced dog teams against his daughter Tabby for several years. We went to the same high school.
The pups were actually pretty decent sled dogs, but there was some video taken of him pulling them off some snow they had frozen too and the 1st gen Karen's cried about "ripping the dogs fur out by the roots!!" Like dog hair doesn't just come out anyway.
Iditarod changed their rules so you had to run a "northern breed" to keep the poodles out. The whole thing was laughable because at that point an "Alaskan Racing Husky" was like 1/3 hound for the lanky speed. Mine lines had a bunch of german shorthair pointer in them. To the point I had sled dogs that would point at ducks in the summer.
Edited to correct unfortunate autocorrect.
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I reached against his daughter Tabby for several years.
I'm telling Rose McGowan.
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dogmush said, "I reached against his daughter Tabby for several years."
I got the "Rose McGowan" reference, but, "...reached against...?
New one on me, what does it mean?
Regionalism, typo, expression for "dated" I'd never heard before?
Search term <reached against> yielded this hit:
Murder conviction reached against Tobin Phillips for murdering eight-month-old Baron Smith.
...and not much else.
Is it some item from Alaskan culture or politics I'm missing?
???
Dummy me, 230RN
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Autocorrect.
Raced against. As in raced dog teams.
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AH, ok! I guess it was obvious if you think of the broader context, but from the narrow context of that sentence, it looked like it could have been dating.
I have a lot of trouble sometimes with regional expressions so I like to nail them down. Drove me nuts for a while with the Georgia expression for "recipes" being "receipts."
Terry.
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John Suter.
That's him. He is my wife's uncle. Still alive and still a bit weird.