Author Topic: Boss Question  (Read 4589 times)

Terpsichore

  • friend
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 373
Boss Question
« on: July 29, 2012, 05:46:33 PM »
Need some advice on whether or not to go to HR with this one.

My general manager at one of my jobs is, to be blunt, a complete (insert verbiage here).

Example from yesterday during my shift:

We were in the end of a rush, a tech was behind the counter helping a customer, myself and two others were running registers.  As I'm running a customer's order I see GM take out his phone (he is behind the same counter as the tech and there are about four customers at it) and makes a personal phone call:

"Yeah, you coming to pick me up?  Do you know what kind of car I drive?  Right.  It's a new Mustang.  Where you on your way?  Yeah, I have the big store you can't miss it."

This goes on for about three or five minutes.  He keeps his back to the customers who are still waiting for help, and when he finally gets off his phone (we are not allowed to have cell phones on the sales floor except for emergencies only when approved, BTW) he "helps" a lady with a question about her GPS.  He was rude to her and talked down to her like she was an idiot.

He finds things to rip us new ones about, yet sits in his office with his laptop loading football stuff.  If we have questions on something, he makes us look like idiots in front of customers.  If we have a keyholder in the building, he has them run things, then goes to do personal errands on store time, using getting things for the store as the reason he's going out.  (keyholders aren't supposed to be used as an acting MOD unless the actual manager is on lunch or on a conference call). 

Best example I have is this past truck night.  Typically we don't leave until truck is done, however, by 2am, we were all hot, tired, and sore.  Myself and two others had to work in the store or at our other jobs at 8am.  There was only a bit left which our operations manager decided to leave for the morning crew the next day.  GM ripped him up one way and down the other because we left before truck was done.  He didn't care we were there until 2am and were tired.  He expected it all done, even if we were there til sunup.  Yet he can leave early or come in late, leaving projects he started sit and then bark at us as to why they aren't done.  He had even told a customer we would have something built by 8am the next morning when we closed in half an hour.  I was the lucky one with the short straw to build it and ten minutes into the project, he snapped at me as to why it wasn't done.  He knows it takes a half hour to get it built correctly, then proceed to question if I knew my left from my right because others had been built wrong.

So the question is this:  What is the best way to deal with this?  Customers are complaining, we can't go to our district manager because the last time we did, GM found out and the associate suddenly left the company.  Someone had called HR before and he tried to ferret out who it was.  All but two or three of us want to call in, but we are nervous if he were told who it was that called in.
There is something relaxing in working with sharp pointy things.

What if there were no hypothetical situations?

Jamie B

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2,866
  • I am Abynormal
Re: Boss Question
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2012, 05:56:06 PM »
It might help to monitor this behavior for a week, and put together a detailed log listing the incident, start time, end time, impact to the business, and the name(s) of associates who witnessed the behavior.

HR departments can be a pain, and usually side with management in their default mode.

If you race in there now with these things, it might look like an emotional rant, as opposed to a reasonably documented and concise list for a week or so.

I would also have a customer document their gripe, especially if there is an official channel for them to do so.

Just my humble opinion. 
Greatness lies not in being strong, but in the right use of strength - Henry Ward Beecher

The Almighty tells me He can get me out of this mess, but He’s pretty sure you’re f**ked! - Stephen

BobR

  • Just a pup compared to a few old dogs here!
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 7,294
Re: Boss Question
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2012, 05:59:16 PM »
Here is my take on this. First and foremost, you need a paper trail. Nothing happens without documentation. If you just go with complaints, it looks like you are whining about a boss, one you guys don't like. HR will probably not do a thing, but if enough of you complain, and can provide documentation, that will help a lot. For example, when you worked late the other night, it should be on your time sheet that you did not leave until 2am. If not, then you are working without pay, which is a big no-no, no matter what they say.

It may be a stretch, but if you are afraid to report him because of retaliation, then a hostile workplace environment may exist. That will get the attention of HR much quicker than any other complaints. Read up on hostile workplace and see if it fits. If it does, use it. But, make sure you are looking at it objectively, do not let personal feelings color your perception of the severity of the offenses. You will probably have to prove a few things down the line, and you do not want it to look personal or vindictive, you just want fair and equal treatment.

bob

Terpsichore

  • friend
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 373
Re: Boss Question
« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2012, 05:59:38 PM »
That's the way I've been leaning.  If we go and dump all this on HR, it will look like we are a bunch of whiners.  We need to have a collected, level headed approach to this.
There is something relaxing in working with sharp pointy things.

What if there were no hypothetical situations?

cassandra and sara's daddy

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 20,781
Re: Boss Question
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2012, 06:14:36 PM »
is single party recording legal there?  do you fight fair? or to win?
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

Terpsichore

  • friend
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 373
Re: Boss Question
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2012, 06:21:46 PM »
is single party recording legal there?  do you fight fair? or to win?

No idea.  Yes.  No.  All I want is for his actions to be known to the higher ups and for them to do something about it.  I don't really want him to be fired, but maybe have it suggested he find other options.

Bob, it is a hostile work environment.  Several of us can't walk in there on a weekly basis without getting snapped at for one reason or another.  He has his favorites, too.
There is something relaxing in working with sharp pointy things.

What if there were no hypothetical situations?

dogmush

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,942
Re: Boss Question
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2012, 06:35:33 PM »
No idea.  Yes.  No.  All I want is for his actions to be known to the higher ups and for them to do something about it.  I don't really want him to be fired, but maybe have it suggested he find other options.

Give up now.  IME office/corperate politics is one of the most cutthroat and imoral interactions on earth. Rest assured, if he gets so much as talked to by HR he will expend a ton of energy finding out who said something and retaliating. Most middle managers and up actually get training in how to retaliate against folks that bring complaints while staying legal.

Unless you're willing to nuke him from orbit and salt the ashes of his carreer, you're setting yourself up for a bad time.

Tallpine

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 23,172
  • Grumpy Old Grandpa
Re: Boss Question
« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2012, 06:38:06 PM »
Sounds like a store where I used to work, only the "boss" was actually the owner - until the bank finally shut him down.

Only legal/ethical solution I could find was to walk in one morning at 8am and quit without notice  >:D

(by that time I had another job, at multiple times the pay)
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

cassandra and sara's daddy

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 20,781
Re: Boss Question
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2012, 06:46:38 PM »
nuke him from orbit and salt the ashes of his carreer,


now we are talking my language!

and hostile work environment is a magic phrase
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

lee n. field

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,598
  • tinpot megalomaniac, Paulbot, hardware goon
Re: Boss Question
« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2012, 07:41:38 PM »
Quote
hostile work environment is a magic phrase

That probably has a specific meaning, so get thee to Google and get read up.
In thy presence is fulness of joy.
At thy right hand pleasures for evermore.

dogmush

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,942
Re: Boss Question
« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2012, 07:47:52 PM »
It does, and it doesn't just mean your boss is a dick.

BlueStarLizzard

  • Queen of the Cislords
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 15,039
  • Oh please, nobody died last time...
Re: Boss Question
« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2012, 08:09:46 PM »
Documentation, and force of majority. Everyone who has issues needs documentation and have a clear and unified front when you go to HR, together.
"Okay, um, I'm lost. Uh, I'm angry, and I'm armed, so if you two have something that you need to work out --" -Malcolm Reynolds

Strings

  • APS Pimp
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5,195
Re: Boss Question
« Reply #12 on: July 29, 2012, 08:12:23 PM »
Yes, we ARE a single party recording state

And honestly, nuking him from orbit would be the best idea. He's proven that he deserves it.

As others have said: document EVERYTHING. When he talks down to a customer (if they notice), quietly give them the corporate complaint number. And have as many of your coworkers as possible sign onto the complaint.

IF, after filing your complaint he starts looking for payback, document his actions to do so and contact someone ABOVE HR...
No Child Should Live In Fear

What was that about a pearl handled revolver and someone from New Orleans again?

Screw it: just autoclave the planet (thanks Birdman)

BlueStarLizzard

  • Queen of the Cislords
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 15,039
  • Oh please, nobody died last time...
Re: Boss Question
« Reply #13 on: July 29, 2012, 08:15:42 PM »
Yes, we ARE a single party recording state

And honestly, nuking him from orbit would be the best idea. He's proven that he deserves it.

As others have said: document EVERYTHING. When he talks down to a customer (if they notice), quietly give them the corporate complaint number. And have as many of your coworkers as possible sign onto the complaint.

IF, after filing your complaint he starts looking for payback, document his actions to do so and contact someone ABOVE HR...

Or go too... Which department? There are legal resources for those in a hostile envirnment. With documentation, a report and continued harrassment, I think going that extra step is legit.
"Okay, um, I'm lost. Uh, I'm angry, and I'm armed, so if you two have something that you need to work out --" -Malcolm Reynolds

Boomhauer

  • Former Moderator, fired for embezzlement and abuse of power
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,343
Re: Boss Question
« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2012, 09:17:34 PM »
I've got a supervisor who is much like that.

Such shitbirds are deeply entrenched and hard to pluck out especially for a low level employee.

Quote from: Ben
Holy hell. It's like giving a loaded gun to a chimpanzee...

Quote from: bluestarlizzard
the last thing you need is rabies. You're already angry enough as it is.

OTOH, there wouldn't be a tweeker left in Georgia...

Quote from: Balog
BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE! AND THROW SOME STEAK ON THE GRILL!

HankB

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 16,666
Re: Boss Question
« Reply #15 on: July 29, 2012, 10:17:10 PM »
It might help to monitor this behavior for a week, and put together a detailed log listing the incident, start time, end time, impact to the business, and the name(s) of associates who witnessed the behavior.

HR departments can be a pain, and usually side with management in their default mode.
Document the jerk's actions for at least a month - a week isn't enough - writing and dating everything in a bound book (not a 3-ring binder) with as much detail as possible, without using terms like "idiot" or "moron" . . . try to make your entries dispassionate. Encourage other employees (ARE THERE ANY WHO WON'T BACKSTAB YOU???) to do the same. Record your interactions with the guy (if legal) for additional evidence.
Trump won in 2016. Democrats haven't been so offended since Republicans came along and freed their slaves.
Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it. - Mark Twain
Government is a broker in pillage, and every election is a sort of advance auction in stolen goods. - H.L. Mencken
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it. - Mark Twain

Tallpine

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 23,172
  • Grumpy Old Grandpa
Re: Boss Question
« Reply #16 on: July 29, 2012, 10:25:00 PM »
I hate to say this considering how bad the economy is right now, but your young life is worth more than the stress that fighting this bastard will cost you.

Walk away, and find another job - any job  ;)
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

Terpsichore

  • friend
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 373
Re: Boss Question
« Reply #17 on: July 29, 2012, 10:44:59 PM »
I've got a supervisor who is much like that.

Such shitbirds are deeply entrenched and hard to pluck out especially for a low level employee.



I'm pretty much bottom of the ladder there.  Been with the company longer than anyone, including the GM, was one of his keyholders (he demoted me), now I'm part time with the duties of a full time specialist dumped on me.

Bright side, with the exception of the boss's favorites, all the other employees know he's a jerk and we use eachother as sounding boards.  They come to me as kind of the "store mother" with their problems, so I'm not worried about being backstabbed.  Already starting to document things I've seen going on there, had a file going, but the flash drive went bad.

I have to laugh, though.  He's always going on about how he needs his end of year bonus and how we have to perform well for him to get it because he needs the money, yet he just bought a brand new Mustang and his wife just got a new car, too.

Tallpine, I just started a second job as an optitian's assistant and I love it.  Hope to get more hours there so I can quit the job from heck.
There is something relaxing in working with sharp pointy things.

What if there were no hypothetical situations?

Devonai

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,645
  • Panic Mode Activated
    • Kyrie Devonai Publishing
Re: Boss Question
« Reply #18 on: July 30, 2012, 02:02:31 AM »
You have my sympathy.  I sincerely hope that you arrive at a favorable outcome, and there are tons of good advice in this thread.

I, however, would be extremely surprised if even one other person stands beside you when the rubber meets the road.  Some years ago, I was an armed security guard at an urban housing complex.  The security company was locally owned by two former sheriff's deputies, and they were heavily involved in the site's management (as they should be).  

One day they announced that there would be a mandatory, unpaid organizational meeting at the site on a Sunday morning.  I knew it couldn't be both mandatory and unpaid, so first I complained directly to the owners, which of course went nowhere.  They told me to be there on Sunday morning or turn in my gear.  I decided to attend, then bring up the issue in front of everybody.  I got four other employees to stand up with me to protest.

At the meeting, I tried to bring it up, and was told to hold my question until the end.  They dismissed everyone, and I quickly pointed out that my issue hadn't been addressed.  The four other employees walked out without a word, leaving me standing there alone with both owners.  They blatantly stated that they didn't care what the law said, that I wasn't getting paid for the meeting, and to suck it up or pound sand.  So I quit.

Two days later, three planes hit the World Trade Center towers and the Pentagon, and one crashed in Pennsylvania.  So, I never did file a complaint with the AG.  If I hadn't been distracted, I would have filed a complaint, especially now that I'm older and wiser and realize just how wrong those two jerks really were.  However, the bottom line is don't be surprised if you're the only one actually willing to put your butt on the line, and find yourself standing alone at the end of the day.
My writing blog: Kyrie Devonai Publishing

When in danger, when in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout!

vaskidmark

  • National Anthem Snob
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12,799
  • WTF?
Re: Boss Question
« Reply #19 on: July 30, 2012, 07:13:00 AM »
Glad to hear your flash drive died - it would not carry the impact of pen & paper.  Get one of those little pocket notebooks that have the pages glued in - not one with the spiral wire.  Write everything down - start with time & date, then "just the facts, Ma'm."  Remember the three "W"s and try to get customer ID info if you can - but going up to a customer and asking them for their name will most likely just get you in trouble and get word back to the manager.  Run copies of register receipts and staple them into your notebook (or copy the transaction data if it will make the notebook unwieldy).

From what you have posted you have IMHO two choices of how to handle the manager - either as a labor complaint of hostile work environment (sounds very weak so far) or as a heads-up to upper management that he is costing them money (going to be hard to prove unless you have a private eye follow him outside the store).

Based on your demotion in position but increase in responsibility (why did you not complain to HR about that?) it sounds like it's time to pull the yellow and black striped handled above your head and say "Goodbye, dummy".  Start your job-hunting activity and set a firm deadline for how much longer you will stay.  I'm sure you know better than to bad-mouth the job or the personnel during job interviews.

stay safe.
If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege.

Hey you kids!! Get off my lawn!!!

They keep making this eternal vigilance thing harder and harder.  Protecting the 2nd amendment is like playing PACMAN - there's no pause button so you can go to the bathroom.

Terpsichore

  • friend
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 373
Re: Boss Question
« Reply #20 on: July 30, 2012, 07:24:55 AM »

Based on your demotion in position but increase in responsibility (why did you not complain to HR about that?)
stay safe.

There is nothing I can do about that one.  They made me sign a resignation saying I wasn't doing my job, or they were going to fire me.  Basically I didn't look good on paper, despite busting my butt every shift.  The person who took over the role doesn't do squat, but now we have new people in and new policies and she can coast by and look good in those metrics.

There is something relaxing in working with sharp pointy things.

What if there were no hypothetical situations?

Boomhauer

  • Former Moderator, fired for embezzlement and abuse of power
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,343
Re: Boss Question
« Reply #21 on: July 30, 2012, 08:33:39 AM »
There is nothing I can do about that one.  They made me sign a resignation saying I wasn't doing my job, or they were going to fire me.  Basically I didn't look good on paper, despite busting my butt every shift.  The person who took over the role doesn't do squat, but now we have new people in and new policies and she can coast by and look good in those metrics.

Ah sounds like you work for some "top notch" management. Maybe you didn't have enough synergy for them.
Quote from: Ben
Holy hell. It's like giving a loaded gun to a chimpanzee...

Quote from: bluestarlizzard
the last thing you need is rabies. You're already angry enough as it is.

OTOH, there wouldn't be a tweeker left in Georgia...

Quote from: Balog
BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE! AND THROW SOME STEAK ON THE GRILL!

lee n. field

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,598
  • tinpot megalomaniac, Paulbot, hardware goon
Re: Boss Question
« Reply #22 on: July 30, 2012, 08:41:01 AM »
.  Already starting to document things I've seen going on there, had a file going, but the flash drive went bad.

Still got it?  There's software out there that goes a good job recovering from bad flash media.

Quote
I have to laugh, though.  He's always going on about how he needs his end of year bonus and how we have to perform well for him to get it because he needs the money, yet he just bought a brand new Mustang and his wife just got a new car, too.

Oh, yeah.  Gotta love the motivation.

In thy presence is fulness of joy.
At thy right hand pleasures for evermore.

vaskidmark

  • National Anthem Snob
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12,799
  • WTF?
Re: Boss Question
« Reply #23 on: July 30, 2012, 09:20:48 AM »
There is nothing I can do about that one.  They made me sign a resignation saying I wasn't doing my job, or they were going to fire me.  Basically I didn't look good on paper, despite busting my butt every shift.  The person who took over the role doesn't do squat, but now we have new people in and new policies and she can coast by and look good in those metrics.

Should have taken the piece of paper they shoved in front of you, folded it and put it where they should not touch, and told them to fire you.  Thee are several grounds/legal terms I cannot get to the tip of my tongue right now for that kind of BS and among other things you can get unemployment insurance when you lose your job because of BS like that.

Besides, the consequences of them either trying to get the piece of paper back or merely the lawsuit after you showed it to an attorney specializing in employment law would have made you both famous and rich.

Advice (unsolicited) for the rest of you still-employed slobs -- if anyone ever shoves a piece of paper at you and asks/tells you to sign it, put it at the very least in your pocket and tell them you want 2 full working days to review it.  Even if you agree with what's on the paper.

stay safe.
If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege.

Hey you kids!! Get off my lawn!!!

They keep making this eternal vigilance thing harder and harder.  Protecting the 2nd amendment is like playing PACMAN - there's no pause button so you can go to the bathroom.

BryanP

  • friendly hermit
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2,808
Re: Boss Question
« Reply #24 on: July 30, 2012, 09:52:38 AM »
I have to go with the earlier suggestions.  Set up a couple of webcams around the work area recording to a PC, or maybe pick up something like this to use as you have an opportunity:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA0U008J0862

Gather up all the video and send it to several people in HR and upper management; anonymously if you must. Even if you're about to quit, you can do your coworkers a good turn.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2012, 09:58:19 AM by BryanP »
"Inaccurately attributed quotes are the bane of the internet" - Abraham Lincoln